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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:29 AM
Original message
Sick girl's mom said she expected `divine healing'
WAUSAU, Wis. – Just hours after an 11-year-old girl died of untreated diabetes, her mother told police she never considered taking her tired, pale and skinny daughter to a doctor for what she believed was a spiritual attack.

Leilani Neumann said in a videotaped interview played Wednesday at her trial that the Lord was going to take care of her daughter and all she needed was prayer.

"It did scare me with her being cold," Neumann told an Everest Metro Police Department detective. "I just believed the Lord is going to heal her. I never thought she was close to death. ... It was just like this all happened so suddenly. She just looked skinny all of a sudden."

Neumann, 41, is on trial for second-degree reckless homicide for praying instead of seeking medical care for Madeline, who died March 23, 2008, at their Weston home. Her husband also has been charged and will be tried in July.

Prosecutors contend a reasonable parent would have known something was gravely wrong with Madeline but that her mother prayed and ignored obvious symptoms of poor health instead of rushing her to a doctor. If convicted, Neumann faces up to 25 years in prison.

In the interview, Neumann told police she didn't oppose doctors and medicine but that Madeline hadn't seen a doctor since she was 3 and had never been sick. The family believes in "divine healing" by trusting the Lord, the mother said.

"I just felt that, you know, my faith was being tested. I never went through an experience like that before in my life and I just thought, man, this is the ultimate test," she said. "We just started praying and praying and praying over her."

The interview occurred several hours after Madeline died. Her mother told the detective she believed her daughter would come back to life.

"It may be crazy to you but that's why I'm not crying and wailing right now," Neumann said.

She also said her husband briefly considered getting their daughter to a doctor. "I said, `No, the Lord's going to heal her.' I believed that God was going to just restore our daughter," she said.

Neumann was expected to take the witness stand in her own defense Thursday, said her attorney, Gene Linehan.

Earlier Wednesday, Neumann's mother-in-law, Elvira Neumann, said she advised the mother to get Madeline to a doctor on the morning the girl died after being told she was in a coma.

"I told her that she better get her to a doctor or hospital real fast," the mother-in-law said. "She wanted us to come over and pray with them to get Kara well. I said, `No, we are going to church and we will pray for her there.'"

Kara was Madeline's nickname.

Elizabeth Neumann, 16, said her sister was so weak the day before she died that she had to be helped to the bathroom and could only mumble her words.

The sister showed jurors how she held up Madeline and, with her father, got the girl to the bathroom.

She testified that her sister seemed "cranky but otherwise fine" the morning before she died. But she said her sister's condition quickly deteriorated until she couldn't talk or walk and urinated on a couch.

"We were just very confused about all of a sudden she was just very tired and weak, and we didn't understand," Elizabeth testified. "We were very concerned, and we were praying for her. We didn't know what was going on. ... I thought she was going to come out of it, and it wasn't anything serious."

Elizabeth said she noticed a week earlier that Madeline was tired and drank an unusual amount of water. Doctors have testified that those are both symptoms of diabetes.

Jennifer Peaslee, a regular member of the Neumanns' Bible study group, testified that she and her husband went to the Neumanns' home the day Madeline died and saw her laying on a bathroom floor unconscious.

Peaslee tried to talk to the girl but got no response.

"I was in shock," Peaslee said. "I didn't expect to see Kara like that."

She never considered advising the family to get the girl to a doctor. "Because the Neumanns believe in faith, in God healing rather than the medical doctors," she said. "If you have enough faith, the Lord can do anything."

Peaslee's husband carried Madeline downstairs and placed her on a mattress on the floor. There, the couple joined the Neumanns and their three other children in prayer, and found Biblical phrases related to healing, Peaslee said.

Peaslee said she and her husband left about 1:30 p.m. Madeline died about an hour later.

Story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

This story is so sad. At the same time it makes me very angry. What is wrong with this type of fundamentalist Christian anyway? It is always the child that dies. The "spiritual parent" would make a bee line for the hospital if they felt that bad.

To make matters worse, the one who dies feels like shit because they don't have enough faith to appease a "loving gawd" who kills them because they do not grovel correctly. The poor child dies feeling rejected and betrayed by gawd and humans who are supposed to "love her".

These story's make me so very angry. grrr. bad church. bad church. bad bad church.
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm so sorry for that poor girl
Weird thought: what if this somehow was turned into the 'Scopes Monkey Trial' of the 21st Century, where prayer had to be defended in court.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. can you imagine the horror of dying like that?
jebus fucking h crisp. What the hell is wrong with these people. And we elect them to public office?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah, she couldn't even talk toward the end. A disgrace.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. I guess God showed them.
Stupid fucks. :puke:
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Didn't God give us doctors? Unbelievably stupid.
Poor kid. :(
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. If God exists, It seems as though doctors WOULD be the miracle workers.
See those fucking morons never thought of that did they? They expected a miracle to happen...


BUT MAYBE THE DOCTOR IS THE FUCKING MIRACLE...


God damnit this shit makes me so angry. I can't take willful ignorance like this. I just can't fucking take it. I would tear those parents apart if I ever met them in person.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. When I was a kid I got violently sick. I mean, deathly. My mom prayed for me to get better.
She was (and is) an ardent fundamentalist. She wanted me to get better, but felt prayer was the solution. When my feaver hit 109 she stopped the praying and took me directly to the hospital. It saved my life.

For this mother to be so blinded by her "faith" that she would completely ignore *instinctual* and *hard coded* signals that her daughter was *deathly ill* is just beyond words.

But this happens every day in our country, I'm afraid.
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. My parents are evangelical and they pray for the sick...
But they pray for the sick as they are seeking treatment.

When I got meningitis a few years ago, my mom brought me to the ER immediately. But she prayed for me all along the way.

That's the difference. Do everything that is possible to save the life, don't just rely on prayer. That's ludicrous.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Exactly. Pray AND seek treatment. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yeah. If God doesn't want me to get help for my kid then God can fuck off...
As far as I'm concerned, any God that wants to deny me the ability to make my kid better is evil. I don't worship evil.

But that is a completely different story all together and the main reason why I'm agnostic.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. reminds me ...
A man is living at home. Rainstorms come in, and the rain is really coming down.

A policeman comes to the door, tells the man he has to evacuate for his own safety, to get in his car and come with him. The man replies "I am a man of faith ... God will keep me safe." The policeman leaves.

The rain continues. The street floods.

A man comes by in a boat and begs the man to go with him. The man in the house says "God will keep me safe." The man in the boat goes away.

The flood worsens, and the man takes refuge on the roof of the house.

A National Guardsman comes to the house in a rescue helicopter, and begs the man to leave with him. The man again says "Go away. God will keep me safe." The winds pick up, and the helicopter is forced to leave.

The flood waters rise further, and the man drowns.

At the Pearly Gates, the man is angry. He complains to God that God didn't keep him safe, despite being a true man of faith.

God tells him: "What the hell did you expect??? I sent you a policeman in a car, a boat, and a helicopter!"
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Hahaha, heard it before, gets me every time!
:)
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I agree with George Carlin ... that's just another kid that God guy killed this month!
Let's form a lynch mob and stop this God guy!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Ouch, heh.
Maybe a bit out of place in this thread, but I enjoy the dark humor. :hi:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. fuck these horrible stupid delusional parents who killed their child
and made her suffer. I hope they're convicted.
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Nipper1959 Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. They might be convicted
but the most they will get will be probation and maybe some community service because "they have suffered enough."
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. Insulin/modern medicine IS the miracle.
But sadly, there is not yet a cure for stupid.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. We're verging on a cure for it, too. I wonder how many will needlessly die...
...because they don't want to give a "man made cure" to their children.
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CommieCowboy Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. This is ridiculous...
If one assumes that God is real (which I don't), one must also assume that God gave us our mind / allowed it to evolve so that we may use it to better our own condition and the condition of those around us as well as to contribute to the overall body of human knowledge. In medieval times, Muslims and Jews believed this while Christians generally did not, which resulted in the Caliphate and other Muslim-ruled areas being the most civilised and knowledgeable in the world. Then people like Khomeini (the traitor who killed 100,000 of my comrades in Iran after they overthrew the Shah), the Saud Family, and the Mujhaideen decided that Islam was about killing socialists and oppressing women rather than about using one's faculties for the glory of Allah.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Welcome to DU
:hi:
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. Stories like this make my brain instantly cave in.
"Ah really believed Benevolent Sky Daddy would cure mah daughter."

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Simply stunning.

Only looking away will shield you from "teh stupid".
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. This woman is mentally ill ...
... and surrounded by people who defer to her judgment. That poor kid.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Hearing voices, and talking to imaginary friends is a leading indicator
Edited on Thu May-21-09 07:28 PM by TWiley
just a thought ...
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