Karen Hughes-Spills Torture Beans-Makes Herself # 1 Witness Against BUSHCO

[kpete]

Karen Hughes just made herself witness #1 should anyone decide to put her and the rest of the Cheney-Bush gang on trial.

Karen Hughes Spills Some Important Torture Beans
Submitted by Bob Fertik on May 19, 2009 - 5:53pm.

......................

Karen Hughes was closer to George Bush than anyone except Karl Rove - perhaps even closer. She was Bush's press pitbull during his six years as governor and during his Presidential campaign, then became "Counselor to the President." So this is a startling revelation (h/t Ben Armbruster):

She acknowledged the current uproar over interrogation tactics and allegations of prisoner torture during the Bush years.

“I was very vocal in the internal debate,” she said. “I worried about how that would make us look in the eyes of the world. But I had left the White House when a lot of that was taking place.”

Then she paused, worried for the first time in 90 minutes that she’d made a gaffe. Whatever Sen. John McCain says about interrogation techniques, she added quickly, she has similar views.

more at:
http://www.democrats.com/karen-hughes-spills-some-important-torture-beans

[EFerrari]

1. Oops

[glitch]

23. If they were smart they'd lay low, maybe even leave the country.

Then again if they were smart they wouldn't have hitched their wagon to Junior and his Evil Minder.

[northernlights]

54. they can't safely leave the country

these were international war crimes. they could be facing the Hague.

[CTyankee]

58. But they could google "countries that are not signatories of the Geneva Accords"

and go live in one of them...they would certainly be interesting places, just not Paris...

[glitch]

59. And no extradition treaties...

edit: of course they could always rejoin their alien lizard communities at the bottom of the ocean, or on Mars or wherever. Just not here.

[Jackpine Radical]

72. What an icke thought.

(For those who have no clue of what I'm talking about:)
http://www.amazon.com/Children-Matrix-Interdimensional-Controlled-Years/dp/0953881016/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242857663&sr=8-5

[glitch]

77. Lol!

What if he really is kinda psychic (or whatever) but he's got his wires crossed a bit.

IOW, because bushco operate mainly in their reptilian brains and don't use their frontal lobes all that much, he mis-interpreted that psychic message to mean lizard aliens?
Meanwhile the spirits (or whatever) giving him the messages keep slapping their foreheads (or whatever), saying not reptilian aliens you idiot, reptilian brains!@#$!

[Jackpine Radical]

79. That's the most brilliant theory I ever heard about Icke.

:rofl:

[glitch]

80. Thanks! It's just that he seems so earnest, and I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt

somehow. It was the best I could come up with. :)

[Politicalboi]

Delete

Computer is acting up double posted

[Politicalboi]

66. Yes but are those countries

Going to want the world down their throat for harboring a war criminal? If they put a reward on her head someone would take them up on it. If the population sees it different than their government she wouldn't be safe anywhere. This is not the 1940's where not too many people could recognize Nazi's but Karen Hughes is easy.

[CTyankee]

67. So no place is safe, eh? Perhaps she will undergo plastic surgery and dye her hair.

This would make a pretty good novel, actually...

[Cha]

63. Big Oooooops! That's what

happens when you make a living from being the bush "press pitbull" with your motormouth..once in while your mouth is going to work faster than your brain.:silly:

And, oh, didn't she sound in a defensive mode?

[EFerrari]

68. I wonder if this Hughes appearance means that BusCo is out trying to

cover Junior's @ss now.

In addition to all the other people I don't miss, Karen Hughes and Victoria Clarke are RIGHT up there.

[malaise]

2. Rats are jumping ship with tasteless haste

Keep talking Karen - remember you headed to the Middle East to win hearts and minds after the torture.

Who will destroy whom first. It's so good watching while war criminals fall out and it's every man and woman for him/herself - :popcorn:

Bring it on Karen, bring it on!! :rofl:

[Booster]

3. Time to let out a little more rope.

[surrealAmerican]

38. Exactly.

All you need to do is keep a microphone in front of these people.

[tclambert]

73. No rope. It is important to demonstrate the rule of law

in all its slow, methodical glory. Show them how they should have treated others. Show the world how the process should work.

[Chemisse]

4. I always wondered why she left her job so abruptly

[The Hope Mobile]

36. Me too! It obviously wasn't about "spending more time with the family". nt

[bleever]

5. Keeeeep talkin', Karen.

Keep talkin'.

[annabanana]

6. Get her under oath, Mr. Special Prosecutor!!

Oh. . . .wait. . .


damn

[Canuckistanian]

7. I was thinking that when I first read her quote earlier

It's quite a major departure from the usual "It's legal and we were forced to do it" talking point.

Yes, by all means, add her to the list.

[opihimoimoi]

8. She is in the LOOP....soon, she and the others will rounded up and taken to the Bastille

May the cell block dloors have smelly straw and tons of bed mites, skin mites, and centerpedes....add fleas and ticks to the list.

[dgibby]

16. The Rats!

Don't forget the rats........oh, wait. Nevermind.

[opihimoimoi]

26. Waterboard her...make her talk and spill them beans

[spanone]

9. they ALL knew

all the bu$hites

[hootinholler]

10. Methinks she should be interrogated immediately.

Nice how she puts distance, I got out of there fast when I saw it all going south in a hurry.

-Hoot

[peacetalksforall]

11. Can't wait to hear more from Matalin - she's the one who really knows.

Hughes = Bush.
Matalin = Cheney.
Matalin = knows stuff really well from insider days around 9-11.

Matalin defending Cheney - so far.

[glitch]

24. Do snakes sweat? I ask because if they do then she should be sweating right about now.

That goes for her snake husband as well.

No offense to snakes, or reptiles in general.

[snake in the grass]

51. Thank you.

You almost ruined my day!

;-)

[glitch]

60. lol! I would never want to do that! nt

[rateyes]

52. No. Snakes are cold-blooded creatures.

And, it takes someone with cold-blood to do what the Bush cabal did.

[snappyturtle]

32. When I hear Matalin I think WHIG. It's all coming unraveled!

What tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive! YES!

[defendandprotect]

62. While I believe . . ..

9/11 came from inside the White House . . .

And have always thought Mary Matalin a vicious p---- ....

Could she have known something about this 9/11 "pearl harbor" -- ?

Could she be that evil?

And, either Cheney was pretending to heightened paranoia or he is clinically ill . . .

which is it?

I'm guessing it's a fake -- but would be a legitimate alibi for both Cheney and

Bush ... who would be seen as having made their decisions in a time of panic!!!

[peacetalksforall]

65. I think Cheney depended on her very much for the press push in his support.

Without looking at the names again, I can't think of one media type person that worked more closely with him - other than the name players and office holders who can be mentioned because they did their thing on the big shows - starting with Cheney himself. I never knew whether a person such as Hadley and many others were on the side of Bush or Cheney. She is the only female other than the DOD blond (whose name I forgot) to speak for Cheney. To me Remsfeld's DOD and Cheney's White House were one and the same. The CIA wasn't 'in; with them in most ways - which is why the WH and DOD went to such lengths to smear them.

Though the WH refused to hold a criminal investigation into 9-11, they finally figured out they could use a Oommission to smear the CIA as well as they could pretend that someone was studying 9-11 - even though it was just a REVIEW of intelligence communications (with little on the contributions of the intelligence units of other countries - an essential part).

[defendandprotect]

71. Agree --

9/11 commission was a farce . . .
but I do think the "Osama Determined to Strike Within US" was more of an embarrassment
to Rice than CIA. And fact that Bush ignored that.
And let's remember that Tenet got the ... what is it, the Freedom Medal???
Talk about up is down!

Cheney was leaning extraordinarily hard on CIA to have intelligence turn out the way
they wanted it -- "fixed." Wasn't happening.

There was a huge amount of intelligence that came in -- Russia was so worried about
Bush's ignoring what they were reporting that they went to the United Nations Security
Council. Evidently Russia was kinda worried THEY might become the fall guy in a
"false flag" operation! At any rate, the UN Security Council sent their representatives
to the White House with the Russian intelligence -- and to our intelligence agencies --
re-reporting it all again. That was in AUGUST.

The whole thing is sickening -- and some day soon, I hope, we'll bust thru on all of this
political violence and election steals.


:)

[supernova]

12. What's so awful is, she thinks that's a perfectly moral thing to say

:puke:

[Demoiselle]

13. When did we invade Iraq?

The story says Hughes left the White House in 2002. Didn't we invade in 2003?
My goodness, if my sense of the timing is right, it bolsters the notion that the torture was used to manufacture a case for attacking Iraq before we went in...
Or have I got it wrong?

[rucognizant]

39. March 19 2003

NO I am sorry it was MArch 20..............BUT it was SO CLEARLY going to happen.............on the 19th I took a tech course up along the Canadian border, and listened to CBC on the way there and home ( 2 hours) It was a done deal to the dismay of the Canadians!
It was a done deal to a lot of Mainers the summer of 2002, as well. In early 2003, A man who had gotten RICH off opening "managed" hospitals in Russia after detant, was part of the planning of an Iraq Business Group. At the time Iraq had excellent hospitals and many sophisticated, modern Drs. It WAS NOT A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY! Why would you hold a conference to discuss that unless you had plans to go in and destroy the exhisting hospitals? The conference was open to other businesses..............and to be held down near KENNEBUCKPORT! how convenient..................... and cost $1,500. for a weekend. NOT for the likes of a small business person who wanted to open a gift shop in Baghdad!
3,000 of us marched in Oct 02, against the invasion! That's a LOT of people to bring out, here in MAine with a small population!

[defendandprotect]

64. Yes, I think you very well have it right -- quite some telling dates -- !!!

Evidently Bush began to wiretap American citizens the moment he walked into the

Oval Office -- seven months before 9/11!!!

The War in Afghanistan, which began on October 7, 2001 as the U.S. military operation Operation Enduring Freedom

They could have been torturing Afghanistani's for more than a year before we invaded Iraq !!???

Some day we will find out the truth of all of this . . Oh, the fates!

[malaise]

14. Rachel is discussing this NOW n/t

[Hissyspit]

15. COUNTDOWN VIDEO - Keith discusses it in 'Still Bushed!' segment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=314453&mesg_id=314453

[Kolesar]

17. Countdown reruns about two or three times

It is on in the wee hours for the insomniacs.

[aquart]

48. And online for non-cable. So helpful.

[burning rain]

18. Rachel Maddow had a good sly comment about this tonight.

How striking it is that with the Bush / Cheney administration defunct and discredited, former officials are claiming to have disagreed with their criminal decisions vociferously, just not so vociferously that anyone could hear them at the time.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. When feet THAT big get stuck in one's mouth ..........

[starroute]

20. Did all the members of WHIG all know what was going on?

When Hughes refers to the internal debates and "how that would make us look in the eyes of the world," does she mean WHIG?

The White House Iraq Group was formed in August 2002 -- the month when Abu Zubaydah was being waterboarded -- to discuss how to sell the war. The members were:

Karl Rove
Karen Hughes
Jim Wilkinson (author of the Al Gore invented the Internet meme in 2000, deputy WH communications director under Hughes, later deputy national security advisor for communications)
Scooter Libby
Condi Rice
Stephen Hadley
Andrew Card
Mary Matalin
Nicholas Callo (legislative liaison)

Wilkinson and Callo don't seem to be significant figures -- but the others certainly were. Especially Condi -- and I've always kind of wondered what she was doing on an essentially PR/propaganda team like WHIG.

These guys got discussed a lot in terms of the Plame outing. Should we be pulling out our old notes again?

[unblock]

21. would she have been entitled to classified information at that point?

i thought she was officially in a purely political role.

:shrug:

[mnhtnbb]

22. Just imagine what she'd spill if she was water-boarded!

[dmr]

25. This is an interesting point: "her work with WHIG may have been illegal"

4. Even after she left the White House, Hughes was a member of the White House Iraq Group (WHIG), which was created by Andy Card in August 2002 to "market" the invasion of Iraq. Without a White House job, her work with WHIG may have been illegal. She may also be unable to claim Executive Privilege to avoid subpoenas about that work.

I wonder if the interview was taped. Anyone know?

[Wednesdays]

27. K&R

:kick:

[pleah]

28. K&R

[mod mom]

29. Note she doesn't care that it was immoral & illegal just how it would make them look.

:mad:

[bdamomma]

30. all the roaches are coming out, keep spilling the beans!!

[njlib]

31. Could this be an indication that the heat is being turned up

behind the scenes? Is something coming down the pike that hasn't been made public and the "insiders" are looking to cover their asses now? While I get frustrated at times, I really do think Obama is giving them the rope to hang themselves. I think he's the smartest, most politically savvy president we've had in a long time. I can see it playing out as "While I personally was in favor of moving forward, in light of recent revelations, we have no choice but to investigate and prosecute". He knows what he's doing.

[rucognizant]

40. I agree...........

I think people are quietly working on it. He is smarter than most of us.
( No I don't think he is the Messiah of divinely inspired, just one smart man with a string sense of justice.
And his idea of justice may not be as left leaning as some of us...............but it is there.

[Raster]

33. I'd love to see the Wetnurse to the Beast testify in court...

The Bible would burst into flames when she laid her right hand upon it to swear to tell the truth before God. Oh, I forgot...it would be a copy of "My Pet Goat".

[Soylent Brice]

34. this mess is coming apart at the seams.

:popcorn:

[fascisthunter]

35. she's worried... they all are... that's why so many shills

are on tv trying to excuse this admin's sick behavior. Doing what they did, didn't take courage, it took insanity and a major disconnect to do what they did, which makes them unsuitable for any position in government.

[ThomWV]

37. Need to put her statement in a timeline of the torture issue

When was her time of service because it confirms the debate prior to her departure. It would be interesting if she left before the memos were signed, for instance. I've seen timelines, don't have a link to one though.

[peacetalksforall]

49. 2002 and 2007

Here you are:

1.) An Influential Bush Adviser, Karen Hughes, Will Resign
From the NYT
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: Wednesday, April 24, 2002
Karen P. Hughes, a confidant of President Bush who became one of the most powerful women ever to serve in the White House, announced today that she was leaving her job to move with her ''homesick'' family back to Texas.

2.)And the date of resignation from her Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy was October 31, 2007.

We need the date she started her Under Sec job - I think there was a gap.

Will look for it and edit, if I find it.

Edit #1:
I edited the clip and paste paragraph from the NYT to add the Subject Line - Influential Bush Adviser.

[Baby Snooks]

41. What torture trials?

She wouldn't be talking about it if she thought she might end up being called as a witness in a trial, now would she?

She's just another Bush lapdog being dispatched to revise history. Nothing more. And probably being paid well to do so.

[Raksha]

43. Oh, she'd absolutely be talking about it!

She wants to go on record as early as possible as being opposed to torture. I think she's looking for immunity in exchange for her testimony against the rest of the rat pack. That sounds like an excellent idea to me...I bet she could tell some interesting stories!

[earth mom]

42. K & R!

:kick:

[Missy Vixen]

44. She was really, really important!

Ooops.

:popcorn:

Hope she enjoys being under oath; hopefully, it'll happen sooner than later!

[leveymg]

45. So, Karen, tell us: Who suggested they waterboard Zubaydeh in 8/02 until he was an artichoke?

Why did the White House order the CIA to waterboard Abu Zubaydeh at least 83 times, and why was this done without monitoring his blood-oxygen level, resulting in nearly certain severe brain damage and memory loss?

Such monitoring is a routine part of any procedure where respiration may be interrupted. The device that measures oxygen levels, a pulse oxomiter, is hardly an exotic medical instrument - they cost less than $50 dollars each and are in common use in clinics, dental offices, and geriatric care facilities around the world. Many Scuba divers and mountain climbers use them to monitor for anoxia, a drop in oxygen levels.

Abu Zubaydeh reportedly blacked out and almost died after he was waterboarded repeatedly and for extended periods without oxygen monitoring.

This wasn't something that was done in some isolated cellar by untrained goons. CCTV video cameras broadcast every one of his interrogations to Washington and Langley. These sessions, carried out at Baghram Air Base, were overseen by experts in waterboarding who had developed the SERE program for the U.S. military. These contractors were paid a thousand dollars a day plus expenses for their subject matter expertise.

The Agency's own recordings of these sessions were later ordered destroyed by Director of CIA Clandestine Operations Jose A. Rodriguez. It was Rodriguez who had been in charge of the unit, the Director's Counter-Terrorism Center (CIA/CTC), that actually carried out the torture of Abu Zubaydeh and the waterboarding of two other "high-value" detainees. Under the previous Director, Cofer Black (1999-May 17, 2002), that unit had monitored the al-Qaeda planning summit in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia where AZ and several of the principal 9/11 hijackers planned out the 9/11 attack.

Cofer Black had been CIA Chief of Station in Sudan in the mid-1990s when bin Laden and Abu Zubaydeh were running their own worldwide operations from that location, including the training of Islamic militants for combat in Bosnia and later Chechnya. AZ trained six the principal 9/11 hijackers, originally recruited for such operations against the Russians.

Based on ongoing NSA monitoring of Nawaf al-Midhar, in December 1999, Black's CTC monitored preparations and travel to the Kuala Lumpur summit of the future Flt. 77 hijackers and others who planned there and went on to lead the "Planes Operation". The attendees were tracked as they scattered and went their various ways. CTC monitored the January 15, 2000 arrival at LAX of al-Midhar and his partner, Khalid al-Hazmi. A series of at least three warning cables drafted by FBI liason officers at CTC were drafted about the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the travels of the future Flt. 77 hijackers, but these were ordered withheld by the Assistant Director of CTC, a man identified as "Robert B". See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/413

What was it that AZ knew that the White House and CIA Director thought was so important that he had to be waterboarded into a vegetative state?

The connection of the 9/11 hijackers and CIA itself provides an apparent motive. Was there another group with a possible interest in erasing and altering the knowledge that Abu Zubaydeh had inside his head?

According to author Gerald Posner, the CIA had already extracted the most important facts from AZ before he was waterboarded. Abu Aubaydeh was captured in Pakistan in late March 2002. While he was still recovering from gunshot wounds to his groin and abdomen suffered during his capture, he was transferred from Pakistan to the "dark prison" in Afghanistan.

Initially, his interrogation was done more by guile than torture, and AZ was still quite intact after he divulged the "Rosetta Stone", some of most critical information about the 9/11 operation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-posner/the-cias-destroyed-inter_b_75850.html

In my 2003 New York Times bestseller, Why America Slept: The Failure to Prevent 9/11, I discussed Abu Zubaydah at length in Chapter 19, "The Interrogation." There I set forth how Zubaydah initially refused to help his American captors. Also, disclosed was how U.S. intelligence established a so-called "fake flag" operation, in which the wounded Zubaydah was transferred to Afghanistan under the ruse that he had actually been turned over to the Saudis. The Saudis had him on a wanted list, and the Americans believed that Zubaydah, fearful of torture and death at the hands of the Saudis, would start talking when confronted by U.S. agents playing the role of Saudi intelligence officers.

Instead, when confronted by his "Saudi" interrogators, Zubaydah showed no fear. Instead, according to the two U.S. intelligence sources that provided me the details, he seemed relieved. The man who had been reluctant to even confirm his identity to his U.S. captors, suddenly talked animatedly. He was happy to see them, he said, because he feared the Americans would kill him. He then asked his interrogators to call a senior member of the Saudi royal family. And Zubaydah provided a private home number and a cell phone number from memory. "He will tell you what to do," Zubaydah assured them

That man was Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, one of King Fahd's nephews, and the chairman of the largest Saudi publishing empire. Later, American investigators would determine that Prince Ahmed had been in the U.S. on 9/11.

American interrogators used painkillers to induce Zubaydah to talk -- they gave him the meds when he cooperated, and withdrew them when he was quiet. They also utilized a thiopental sodium drip (a so-called truth serum). Several hours after he first fingered Prince Ahmed, his captors challenged the information, and said that since he had disparaged the Saudi royal family, he would be executed. It was at that point that some of the secrets of 9/11 came pouring out. In a short monologue, that one investigator told me was the "Rosetta Stone" of 9/11, Zubaydah laid out details of how he and the al Qaeda hierarchy had been supported at high levels inside the Saudi and Pakistan governments.

He named two other Saudi princes, and also the chief of Pakistan's air force, as his major contacts. Moreover, he stunned his interrogators, by charging that two of the men, the King's nephew, and the Pakistani Air Force chief, knew a major terror operation was planned for America on 9/11.

It would be nice to further investigate the men named by Zubaydah, but that is not possible. All four identified by Zubaydah are now dead. As for the three Saudi princes, the King's 43-year-old nephew, Prince Ahmed, died of either a heart attack or blood clot, depending on which report you believe, after having liposuction in Riyadh's top hospital; the second, 41-year-old Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, died the following day in a one car accident, on his way to the funeral of Prince Ahmed; and one week later, the third Saudi prince named by Zubaydah, 25-year-old Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, died, according to the Saudi Royal Court, "of thirst." The head of Pakistan's Air Force, Mushaf Ali Mir, was the last to go. He died, together with his wife and fifteen of his top aides, when his plane blew up -- suspected as sabotage -- in February 2003. Pakistan's investigation of the explosion -- if one was even done -- has never been made public.

Zubaydah is the only top al Queda operative who has secretly linked two of America's closest allies in the war on terror -- Saudi Arabia and Pakistan -- to the 9/11 attacks. Why does Bush, and the CIA, continue to protect the Saudi Royal family and the Pakistani military, from the implications of Zubaydah's confessions?

Yet another explanation for intensity of Abu Zubaydeh's waterboarding has recently emerged. There are a number of observers who have speculated in the last month that AZ was tortured into false confessions intended to link al-Qaeda with Iraqi WMD programs. This theory is reinforced by the prison "suicide" of In al-Shayk al-Libi, who was captured before AZ, the confessions of whom served as the source of much of the Bush-Cheney Administration's phony charges that Iraq had trained AQ operatives in chemical and bioloigical warfare.

Of course, none of these accounts exclude the others, and there to have been multiple groups at various levels of the Bush Administration and the CIA with their own motives to alter or erase the memory of Abu Zubaydeh and other 9/11 detainees.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

50. The Vulcans

I found this one day searching for something else. I found it interesting enough to bookmark it.

The term Vulcans as you will see comes from a statue in Birmingham Alabama. What interested me was the description of who the statue represented. :tinfoilhat: the Roman God of Fire and Metalworking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vulcans


In early 1999, a team largely drawn from the middle echelons of the first Bush administration began to act as foreign policy advisors to George W. Bush.<2>

Richard Armitage had performed various ambassador and emissary roles around the world for Bush Sr.
Robert Blackwill had been Presidential Assistant for European and Soviet Affairs for Bush Sr.
Stephen Hadley had been U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.
Richard Perle had been U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan administration.
Condoleezza Rice
Paul Wolfowitz
Dov Zakheim had been U.S. Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Planning and Resources.
Robert Zoellick had been aide to U.S. Secretary of State James Baker.
The name "The Vulcans" alludes to a huge statue of Vulcan, the Roman god of fire and metalworking, in Rice’s home town of Birmingham, Alabama.

In early 1999, the Vulcans held their first meeting in Austin, Texas, which was attended by Cheney and Shultz. The group communicated regularly afterward.<3>



I wonder if Karen attended any of those meetings?

[merh]

46. #5 from that link

5. It's likely some of the "internal debate" about torture occurred within WHIG, so investigators should FOIA/subpoena its records. The other WHIG members were Andy Card, Karl Rove (who served as chair), James Wilkinson, Mary Matalin, Nick Calio, Stephen Hadley, Condi Rice, and Scooter Libby.

Mary Matalin must be pissed as hell that Karen let this slip. And you know Cheney and Libby are both pissed that GWB didn't pardon Libby.

WHIG doesn't get the protection of the White House, boy oh boy, talk about subpoenas to be served and testimony to take.

[RedCloud]

47. Repugs are cursed with some increasingly stupid virus

I swear with each passing day I can't believe they could possibly get any dumber.

But then I am forced to say, "I am in total awe!"

[lunatica]

53. The problem with lies is you have to remember what you said

Whereas when you tell the truth it's easy to remember it without having to remember what you said.

They're sure weaving a Gordian knot tangled web from which they're hanging themselves

tee-hee!

[northernlights]

56. not only that

you have to hope your co-conspirators remember what *they* said. And you have to make sure that whatever you say doesn't conflict with what they say.

Oh, can it get messy once it all starts to unravel...

[peacetalksforall]

55. Here's a four part timeline with some interesting phrasing from the media:

2002: LEFT
An Influential Bush Adviser, Karen Hughes, Will Resign (Subject Line)
From the NYT
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: Wednesday, April 24, 2002
Karen P. Hughes, a confidant of President Bush who became one of the most powerful women ever to serve in the White House, announced today that she was leaving her job to move with her ''homesick'' family back to Texas.

2005: RETURNED
Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-brown/the-second-coming-of-kare_b_59851.html
John Brown column

Bush's propaganda czarina Karen Hughes -- her official jawbreaking title is Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs -- has had her ups and downs since being sworn in her State Department position in September 2005. When the long-time Bush confidante rejoined the "mission-accomplished" team in her new international-image-polishing job (she had been, among her previous capacities, a member of the secretive White House Iraq Group that led our country into war), some public-diplomacy veterans hoped that her close relationship with the President would make "engaging, informing, and influencing key international audiences" (the State Department's definition of public diplomacy) more successful than it had been during our Commander in Chief's first term.
But Bush Kampaigner Karen's first public foray into world affairs -- her infamous "listening tour" to the Middle East in the fall of 2005 -- was ridiculed by both the US and international media as an illustration of her ignorance (she disclosed, to an Egyptian opposition leader, that our Constitution cites "one nation under God") and lack of cultural sensitivity (she offended some Saudi women by reproaching them for not having the right to drive). After that disastrous overseas venture, she seemed to keep a lower profile, and by 2006 was practically off the media radar screen, especially during the Second Lebanese War. When she did engage in rare (for her official position) public events (many directed to American audiences to show them how good we US citizens were because of our compassionate-conservative aid to less fortunate foreigners) she was not infrequently criticized, including by the right-wing media, which accused her of being too accommodating to Muslim organizations like the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).


2007: LEFT AGAIN
31 October 2007 - left Undersecretary job.

2009: JOINED FIRM
Wednesday, Jul 09
Former Bush Aide Karen Hughes Joins Burson-Marsteller

Burson-Marsteller announced a big hire today, naming former U.S. Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs and top aide to George W. Bush, Karen Hughes as Global Vice Chair.

Hughes adds to a team with significant beltway experience, including Don Baer, formerly the White House Communications Director for President Bill Clinton, who joined the firm this past November.

Former top Clinton strategist and Burson CEO Mark Penn said in a statement, "I cannot think of anyone better suited to counsel our clients."

SOOOOOOO.....

So, was she in the WHIG group between 2002 and 2005?

[Sunnyshine]

57. If these neo-cons had an internal debate over this...

We know something was, and still is, really very wrong.

[defendandprotect]

61. Thank you -- watching last night but got distracted . . . always valuable

to have someone follow a story like this for us . . .

Karen Hughes . . . hmmmmmmmmmmm

Mary Matalin . . . hmmmmmmmmmmmm

As a woman -- sad to see and I hope one of them will try to redeem themselves . . . !!

[felinetta]

69. I say let the Democrats start talking about Karen Hughes and stop talking about Pelosi!

[myrna minx]

70. Bookmarking.

[katty]

74. she and ari f bailed their sorry asses out of there as soon as

they knew about the 'torture'.

[Geek_Girl]

75. Looks like it

She's seems like a pretty smart person to have that much foresight.

[walldude]

76. Karen Hughes is about as trustworthy as Cheney...

Wouldn't it be great if all these untrustworthy people had to testify to save their own asses?

[MasonJar]

78. There is no need for any torturers to worry. If you missed Rachel

and her interview tonight of Michael Isikoff, try to see it on line. The meeting today of Obama and the human rights organizations did not go well for us liberals.