It grieves me much to bring this news, but it affects us all

[timtom]

"Was it a hate crime? Gay Delray Beach man shot dead in his driveway" is the headline.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2009/05/14/0514delraymurder.html

I cried over this.

God help us all.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Recommended...

:cry:

[elocs]

2. I, too, am more than happy to Rec a self delete. 3 more and it's off to the Greatest. n/t

[timtom]

5. Self delete.

[Dennis Donovan]

3. It's early - there aren't too many DUers up yet...

You really shouldn't self-delete this...:shrug:

[cboy4]

4. I just love listening to the cops when they say they don't have

"any particular evidence pointing to a hate crime."

Could it not be a hate crime?

Of course.

But the guy was shot multiple times and nothing was taken?

And he's gay?

That's suspicious to me.

And that sounds like circumstantial evidence of a potential hate crime to me.

Which of course is evidence.

I'll give the police department the benefit of the doubt for now, but let's hope they don't drop the ball on this one.

[timtom]

6. I agree

This is an obvious instance of a hate crime.

[pnwmom]

9. If a straight person was found shot several times, we wouldn't automatically

call it a hate crime. Not without some evidence pointing in that direction.

We might call it a "drive-by shooting." Or wonder if it was a mob killing.

Are you sure the only reason that a gay guy could be killed would be because he was gay?

[Sentath]

15. "Are you sure the only reason that a gay guy could be killed would be because he was gay?"

No.

But it is the data point that sticks up highest so far. Until something more likely to attract negative attention comes to light... *shrug* One works with the data available.

[cboy4]

21. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

:eyes:

Did you miss the part where I prefaced my comments by saying, "Could this not be a hate crime? Of course."?

By the way, I don't need to see the lab tests of the red stain on my shirt after I eat ketchup, definitively identifying the substance as such, to know that it came from my fries.

It's called common sense.

You can call the multiple shooting of a minority, on his driveway, with nothing taken, whatever silly name you want.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. Statistics show most minorities are killed by someone of the same minority group.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_05.html

[cboy4]

37. Right, but when a black person is hanging from a tree,

I don't start thinking a black person did it.

And when a gay person is beaten to death outside a gay club with a baseball bat, I don't start thinking a gay person did it.

100 percent of all hate crimes are committed by someone who hates.

That we know, without having to look at any FBI statistics like the ones you cited that hardly paint the full picture.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. I must have missed the part where he was killed by skinheads with baseball bats.

[cboy4]

40. No, all you missed was the point.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. I got it completely you have tried to turn a shooting into something there is no evidence it is.

[cboy4]

42. You fail again.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. What evidence of a hate crime is there other than the sexuality of the victim?

[cboy4]

45. The more important question is why are you so bent out of

shape because I suspect this is a hate crime?

What harm does it do to start with the premise that this is a hate crime and work backwards?

Who is hurt by my insinuation that this is a hate crime because robbery doesn't appear to be the motive?

Right wingers are notoriously anti-hate crime anything and don't think there should be enhancements.

You come across as very, very insensitive and uncaring about the real life dangers gay people face in society by your fierce passive aggressive comments that this isn't a hate crime.

Why?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

48. It may very well be, personally I'll wait and see what evidence the police find.

Sorry I may be a little to blunt for you. My gay friends appreciate it.

David

[cboy4]

51. LOL. I'm not irritated because you're blunt. I'm irritated that

you sound like a right-winger.

And I know there's no way on earth you can be, isn't that true?

BTW, I doubt your gay friends appreciate you acting so casual about a possible hate crime against another gay person.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

54. Aren't we sensitive?

I hope they find the perpetrator and send him to jail for as long as the law allows hate crime or not. You wouldn't fit in very well with my gay friends they can actually have rational discussions without resorting to name calling.

David

[Sebastian Doyle]

49. He's upset because it was a shooting.

All his buddies in the Gungeon don't want to hear about hate crimes committed with guns.

[cboy4]

50. Ah, that's why. I knew there had to be an explanation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. No different from hate crimes committed with other weapons.

Most are committed with illegally possessed firearms anyway. Crimes committed with firearms should receive much longer sentences. Hate crimes should receive longer sentences also.

David

[cboy4]

44. Wrong spot.

delete

[anigbrowl]

20. ? No it isn't

I agree, it could be. But there is no evidence either way. People get shot over things as stupid as being cut off on the freeway. People are murdered because they spurn someone else's sexual advances. People are murdered over years-long grudges - in short, for all kinds of stupid reasons. Until we know more info there's simply not enough evidence to make a decision.

Should the police work extra hard to find out what happened? Of course - as they should for any unsolved murder. Are the causes obvious? Far from it.

[timtom]

23. My reason for posting was more about the mourning

of such a senseless death, rather than its political implications.

I, personally, was deeply saddened by this. We had been out to Fredericksburg in 2007 and came back sometime around the time he popped into town.

[Feron]

26. O Rly?!

Gianni Versace was murdered outside of his home by another gay man. It's possible that this man had a stalker or was the victim of some sicko without a homophobic agenda. There are many possible motives.

There isn't enough evidence to draw a definite conclusion.

Regardless it is a sad story. I hope they find the shooter and put him/her away.

[Solly Mack]

7. K&R

[AndyA]

8. 8:30 on a Monday night in the spring and no one was outside to see anything?

I find that unlikely.

Why was the man shot if not a hate crime? It wasn't a robbery, since nothing was taken.

There should be little doubt it was a hate crime, in my opinion. Sounds like a nice neighborhood with offensive symbols being painted on cars, and now this...

I'm sure the person who did the shooting had more of a right to bear arms than this guy had a right to live his life. :eyes:

[Jackpine Radical]

11. I can imagine many reasons why a gay guy might be killed that have nothing to do

with his sexual orientation. And so can you. Just pretend he was straight and start thinking of possible reasons why someone might kill another person in that way.

[AndyA]

12. Yeah, and I can imagine many reasons why what Bush did was for the good of the country.

But that doesn't mean it's the truth.

The guy wasn't robbed. He apparently wasn't a gang member. Other hate crimes have happened in his neighborhood in the past.

Yeah, it could have just been random, but it's more likely it was a hate crime.

[Stevenmarc]

14. Or

it could be a pissed off neighbor or a pissed off ex-employee also one doesn't have to be in a gang to be a victim of gang violence it could be a random nutjob, it could be anything including a hate crime but until they have a suspect and can determine intent we wont know and there's always the possibility we'll never know.

As a gay man I'm not willing to go all chicken little and pull out the hate crime card every time someone is tragically murdered, it dilutes the very concept of the reason for hate crime legislation and I certainly can't determine whether this was or wasn't a hate crime from the information that was in that link.

[pnwmom]

17. My father's partner had a shooting occur on the sidewalk directly in front

of his house. A bunch of shots were fired, and someone was killed. If my father's partner had been in the line of fire, or if a bullet had gone through his window, someone might have decided it was a hate crime -- but it was really a matter of living in a rough neighborhood.

[cboy4]

22. LOL. There's a big difference between being shot by a

flying bullet through the window in a bad neighborhood -- otherwise known as Wednesday night -- and having someone pump multiple bullets into a person on their driveway in not such a neighbor, and by the way, not take his wallet.

Please never work in law enforcement. Our prisons would be empty.

[pnwmom]

27. I'm just saying people shouldn't be jumping to conclusions

until more is known about this man and what happened to him.

I think the police should be investigating this from all angles, including the possibility of a hate crime. But it's too early for anyone to make that conclusion now.

[pnwmom]

16. If he was straight, wouldn't we be calling it a "drive-by shooting"?

Or wondering if it was a revenge killing, or if he had gotten involved with the mob?

[readmoreoften]

18. Yes. Because gay people don't go around killing straight people for being straight.

If they did, it would be logical to investigate as a hate crime. It is logical to pursue the hate crime angle. And its only a "drive by shooting" if there is suspicion of gang related incidence. It's only a "caught in the crossfire" drive-by if someone standing nearby is suspected of gang related activity. And, yes, it is possible that there is revenge killing or that the suspect is involved with the mob, but if there are no such indicators of mob involvement or armed, jealous wives or sour business deals, then a bullet from the religious right's death squad is the likely cause.

Man I hope if I'm ever shot for being gay that people like you don't encourage the police not to investigate my death. And, by the way, if I'm shot in front of my house it will likely be because I'm a dyke.

[pnwmom]

25. I never said it shouldn't be investigated. I'm saying it's too early

to jump to conclusions.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Well that depends.

If the victim was black, yeah, that's a drive by. If the victim is white, then usually it is called 'a shocking mystery shooting in an affluent neighborhood.'
And let me tell you very clearly. When I hear that someone has been murdered, even a heterosexual, I do not rush to imply the victim was a mobster or in some way asking for death. I think, that poor sod, shot in front of his own damn house by a monster.

[pnwmom]

28. A person can be a victim of the mob without being part of the mob. Or a victim

of a shooting without being a victim of a hate crime.

[proteus_lives]

38. Or it could be a gang ritual.

An initiation killing.


For any reason, it's very sad.

[rosesaylavee]

10. ...

praying for his family and friends and of course his fiance.

I think the cops have to gather evidence after any crime before they make a final determination as to why or what happened. Sounds to me like a hate crime with just the evidence presented here.

[cabbage08]

13. K&R

[Duncan Grant]

19. K&R

:kick:

[pnwmom]

29. Here's another link. He was shot in an alley next to his apartment, not in a driveway

or a front yard.

So, a hate crime is a possibility. But another possibility is that he was shot because of something else that was going on in that alley. Maybe he was a witness to something -- who knows? The point is that until the crime is investigated, this is all just speculation.

http://www.cbs12.com/news/delray-4717881-shot-homicide.html

Mark Scott Harriss, 30, was shot several times as he got out of his car when he returned to his home in the 400 block of N.E. 7th Ave.

Harriss was openly gay so authorities may be dealing with a hate crime, but right now it is too early to tell.

That night Harriss had gone to Kentucky Fired Chicken on Linton Blvd. When he got home, he backed into the side of his apartment where he parks in an alley between 6th Avenue and 7th Avenue. That's when he got out of his car and was shot to death.

A white four-door car was seen near the alley where Harriss usually parks prior to and after incident.

[dionysus]

30. dear god....

[dionysus]

31. dear god....

[questforfreedom]

32. well according to them...

that is what Jesus would do

[DU GrovelBot]

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[InvisibleTouch]

46. When I read stuff like this...

...I worry for my gay friends and acquaintances. Sometimes I think the only hope is for the old bigoted generations to die off, and for young people to be raised in a more accepting way by the culture at large. I'd like to see more gay people shown in the media, so young people growing up will realize "this is normal, too." There's been progress made, but still a long way to go.

[Bluebear]

47. 'but (his fiance) had to move back to Canada after his student visa expired'

So not only is he dead, he had to spend his last time on earth without his loved one because he couldn't marry.

[cboy4]

52. Is that touching.

:puke: