Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Rethink our War and Occupation of Afghanistan

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:31 PM
Original message
Rethink our War and Occupation of Afghanistan
The long history of militarism, imperialism, and genocide in the United States has caused untold tragedy and suffering to peoples throughout the world (I describe that history in some detail in this post). That means that too many Americans have not taken seriously their own Declaration of Independence as it applies to other peoples. There are too many Americans who, while believing that Americans or people of their own race are “created equal” and have an “unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”, fail to see how that applies to other peoples.

I believe that it is imperative that this type of attitude and behavior cease. It is immoral, we cannot afford it, and, as James Galbraith explains in “The Predator State”, it is greatly imperiling our position in the world:

With the Iraq invasion, confidence in U.S. foreign policy further eroded, and so did the dollar. This has partly to do with distrust of American motives, partly with the perception that the global war on terror is a fraud. And it has partly to do with the understanding, which prevails everywhere outside the United States, that the solution to the threat of terror is political, diplomatic, and a matter of police work. It is not primarily military…

For all these reasons we ought to be seriously questioning our militaristic attitudes and behaviors – our war in Afghanistan being the most outstanding current example of that. In particular, we ought to consider some of the following issues:


Our initial excuse for invading Afghanistan – Osama bin Laden

Our first stated reason for invading Afghanistan was to capture the presumed mastermind of the 9/11 attacks on our country. But evidence of Osama bin Laden’s involvement in those attacks was flimsy at best. Nevertheless, the Taliban agreed to extradite bin Laden to Pakistan – an American ally – to stand trial for charges of participation in 9/11. They agreed that if the court found sufficient evidence against bin Laden, he would then be extradited to the United States. But George Bush turned down all Taliban offers, saying “We know he’s guilty. Turn him over”. Bush later elaborated further on that, saying, “When I said no negotiations, I meant no negotiations”. And several years later the FBI admitted that there is no substantial proof of bin Laden’s involvement in 9/11.

Maher Osseiran explains the international legal implications of the circumstances under which we invaded Afghanistan:

The Bush administration, with premeditation, ignored its international obligations in deference to war. If the Bush administration had supplied the evidence to the world and specifically the Taliban who were requesting such evidence in exchange for bin Laden, the war might not have taken place and bin Laden would very likely be in custody. Not pursuing that route makes the Afghanistan war an illegal war under the UN Charter and The Geneva Convention; thereby, the majority of the Guantanamo detainees can no longer be classified as enemy combatants, but (rather) victims of war crimes.

Furthermore, even if bin Laden did mastermind the 9/11 attacks, how does that justify our continued war and occupation there? As former U.S. Senator Fritz Hollings says:

I keep asking the question, "Why are we in Afghanistan?" No one has a good answer. A few respond, "To get Osama." But everyone agrees that he is somewhere in Pakistan.

Joe Klein states the situation more bluntly:

The war in Afghanistan – the war that President-elect Barack Obama pledged to fight and win – has become an aimless absurdity. It began with a specific target. Afghanistan was where Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda lived, harbored by the Islamic extremist Taliban government. But the enemy escaped into Pakistan.


The rationale that we must prevent Afghanistan from becoming a “safe haven” for terrorists/al Qaeda

I’m no military expert, but nevertheless I’m incredulous whenever I hear it said that our occupation of Afghanistan is necessary in order to prevent al Qaeda from maintaining a “safe haven” in Afghanistan. Why on earth do they need a “safe haven”? What’s wrong with Florida for a safe haven, where some of the presumed terrorists learned how to fly? What are we planning on doing – invading the whole world so that they can’t establish a safe have anywhere? I like what Senator Hollings had to say about this:

Some answer (as to why we need to be in Afghanistan) to prevent Afghanistan from becoming a safe haven for Al Qaida. I called the State Department after 9/11, and it reported Al Qaida in forty-five countries, including the United States, but not Iraq. Now we have spread Al Qaida to Iraq and determined to have Al Qaida grow in Afghanistan. What we can't understand is that we are creating terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan…

The editors of The Nation say the same thing in different words, pointing out that there are many options other than military intervention for maintaining our security:

Securing Afghanistan is not necessary to US security and may actually undermine our goal of defeating Al Qaeda…. American safety thus depends not on eliminating faraway safe havens for Al Qaeda but on common-sense counterterrorist and national security measures – extensive intelligence cooperation, expert police work, effective border control and the occasional surgical use of special forces.

John Kerry made a similar point in his questioning of Hillary Clinton during her confirmation hearings for Secretary of State:

I am deeply concerned that, at least thus far, our policy in Afghanistan has kind of been on automatic.…Our original goal was to go in there and take on Al Qaeda. It was to capture or kill Osama bin Laden. It was not to adopt the 51st state of the United States.

And James Galbraith makes the more general point about the futility of maintaining an empire through military means:

The United States is not capable of providing security to an empire, even a small one, against the determined fighting opposition of those who live there. This is not a limitation of American forces, but simply a fundamental fact about the limits of military power in the modern world.


The historic futility of trying to conquer Afghanistan

The United States has never been very successful in fighting guerilla wars against native populations in faraway places. We should have first learned that lesson at the beginning of the 20th Century in the Philippines. In the 1960s and 70s we should have learned that lesson in Vietnam. And most recently we should have learned it in Iraq. Do we need to learn it again in Afghanistan?

George McGovern, former U.S. Senator and Democratic nominee for President in 1972, in an open letter to newly elected President Obama, reminded him of the historic difficulties of attempts to conquer Afghanistan:

True, the United States is the world's greatest power – but so was the British Empire a century ago when it tried to pacify the warlords and tribes of Afghanistan, only to be forced out after excruciating losses. For that matter, the Soviet Union was also a superpower when it poured some 100,000 troops into Afghanistan in 1979. They limped home, broken and defeated, a decade later, having helped pave the way for the collapse of the Soviet Union.


Civilian casualties

Every moral nation ought to consider the civilian casualties, sometimes referred to as “collateral damage”, that result from its invasion and occupation of foreign countries. In that respect, the escalation of the U.S. war in Afghanistan has been wearing thin on the Afghan population. From earlier this month:

Shouting "Death to America" and "Death to the Government", thousands of Afghan villagers hurled stones at police yesterday as they vented their fury at American air strikes that local officials claim killed 147 civilians…

The protest in Farah City is the latest sign of a strong Afghan reaction against US air attacks in which explosions inflict massive damage on mud-brick houses that provide little protection against bomb blasts…

In Afghanistan opinion polls show that support for the Taliban and for armed attacks on foreign forces rises sharply after events like the bombing in Farah. President Hamid Karzai frequently criticizes the US military for wantonly inflicting civilian casualties, attacks which his opponents say is an opportunistic effort to burnish his nationalist credentials.

I could not find a poll of Afghans taken during the Obama Presidency. But a poll of Afghans taken on January 12, 2009 showed that:

Civilian casualties in U.S. or NATO/ISAF air strikes are a key complaint. Seventy-seven percent of Afghans call such strikes unacceptable, saying the risk to civilians outweighs the value of these raids in fighting insurgents. And Western forces take more of the blame for such casualties, a public relations advantage for anti-government forces: Forty-one percent of Afghans chiefly blame U.S. or NATO/ISAF forces for poor targeting, vs. 28 percent who mainly blame the insurgents for concealing themselves among civilians.

Given the escalation of the killing during the Obama Presidency, it is unlikely that civilian Afghan approval of the occupation of their country has risen since that time. Other important findings in the above noted poll, tracking Afghan attitude changes from October 2005 to January 2009, found the following indicators going in the wrong direction:

Afghanistan going in wrong direction: 6% to 38%
Unfavorable view of United States: 14% to 52%
Support of U.S./NATO/ISAF forces in your area: 67% to 37%


The limits of military power

Each of the above considerations combines with the inherent limits of military power to make a powerful case for rethinking our Afghanistan war and occupation. The editors of The Nation had the following to say on this subject:

The United States and its NATO allies are losing the war in Afghanistan not because we have had too few military forces but because our military presence, along with the corruption of the Hamid Karzai government, has gradually turned the Afghan population against us, swelling the ranks of Taliban recruits. American airstrikes have repeatedly killed innocent civilians. Sending thousands of additional troops will not secure a democratic and stable Afghanistan, because the country is not only deeply divided but also fiercely resistant to outside forces. Indeed, more troops may only engender more anti-American resistance and cause groups in neighboring Pakistan to step up their support for the Taliban in order to stop what they see as a US effort to advance US and Indian interests in the region…

And lastly, Senator McGovern, whose 18 year Senate career is perhaps best well known for his outspoken opposition to the Vietnam War, explained his opposition to the Afghanistan war and our “War on Terror” in more general terms:

I have believed for some time that military power is no solution to terrorism. The hatred of U.S. policies in the Middle East – our occupation of Iraq, our backing for repressive regimes such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia, our support of Israel – that drives the terrorist impulse against us would better be resolved by ending our military presence throughout the arc of conflict. This means a prudent, carefully directed withdrawal of our troops from Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and elsewhere. We also need to close down the imposing U.S. military bases in this section of the globe, which do so little to expand our security and so much to stoke local resentment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please tell me how leaving AFG in the Taliban's control
does anything for the Afghans' "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

Do you really believe they all want that hell on earth in their lives?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Did you look at the Afghan polls that I linked to in the OP?
And read the section on "Civilian casualties"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. its not the job
of the United States to change peoples countries. there are plenty of places on earth that suck. Saudi Arabia oppresses its people, but we dont go in there and occupy their country.
the only reason we are in Afghanistan is to secure a damned OIL pipeline. period. follow the money.

http://www.alternet.org/audits/139983/pipeline-istan%3A_everything_you_need_to_know_about_oil%2C_gas%2C_russia%2C_china%2C_iran%2C_afghanistan_and_obama/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. More on reasons for going to war in Afghanistan
Two French intelligence analysts, Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, offer clues to the reasons for the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in their book, '' Bin Laden, la verité interdite'' (''Bin Laden, the forbidden truth''). They were told by former FBI Deputy Director John O’Neil that ''the main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were U.S. oil corporate interests and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it''.

Julio Godoy summarizes Brisard’s and Dasquie’s book with respect to the background behind the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan:

The two claim the U.S. government's main objective in Afghanistan was to consolidate the position of the Taliban regime to obtain access to the oil and gas reserves in Central Asia… Until August, the U.S. government saw the Taliban regime ''as a source of stability in Central Asia that would enable the construction of an oil pipeline across Central Asia'', from the rich oilfields in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean.

But, confronted with Taliban's refusal to accept U.S. conditions, ''This rationale of energy security changed into a military one… At one moment during the negotiations, the U.S. representatives told the Taliban, 'either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs'.''…

The government of Bush began to negotiate with the Taliban immediately after coming into power… The last meeting between U.S. and Taliban representatives took place in August, five weeks before the attacks on New York and Washington.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. thank you saving and bookmarking
so there you go. they wont do what we want, on our terms, so we will kill them.
we really are monstrous bullies arent we.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. For one, the poppy crop would be drastically reduced! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. If the Taliban had played 'pipeline-ball' Cheney's 'energy commission' would have backed off. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Yes -- And let the Afghan people decide if they want us there or not
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Since when are we the worlds baby sitters? Don't we have enough to fix right here?
Osama is dead. Sadam is dead. Al Qaeda is not the Taliban. WTF are we still over there? Oh that's right ...we are feeding the MIC, laying off workers, out sourcing jobs, helping the poor banksters and insurance corporations. AFG is not even close to being in the control of the Taliban. Remember the Taliban used to be our friends and we sold them weapons to fight Russia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. We're backing warlords who kidnap/rape girls and produce 80% of the world's heroin.
Maybe those who join "the Taliban" are joining their own "lesser of two evils." The Taliban did not mastermind 9-11, they merely harbored Bin Laden because they like him more than us. We also gave tens of millions of dollars to the Taliban, to supposedly thwart heroin production, in May of 2001. We're also calling anyone who resists the US occupation of Afghanistan "the Taliban" even if they're just pissed off that a PTSD-lost American GI shot up their family.

Even the Iraq Veterans Against the War--a centrist organization--has recently taken a stand against Afghanistan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old Time Pagan Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. I sent this question to my reps 6 weeks ago
I sent this to Obama, my senators and my representative. Kinda' like the elephant in the room that everyone's ignoring. It has been over six weeks and you can hear the crickets chirping. Only one response, a canned response from Senator Patti Murray. What is so difficult about answering this question?

"President Obama what has changed in Afghanistan that is going to make it possible for you to succeed in your mission against The Taliban when the Soviet Union with 500,000 troops and a shared border were driven out without achieving their objectives"

Maybe if enough of us ask this question we'll get an answer. We certainly deserve one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. If Russia supplied some a-a-missiles to the 'freedom fighters' it would already be over. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Good question
Hope you (we) get an answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. 'rethink'
. . . then act!

Thanks, TFC :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Definitely!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you. An excellent summary of what should be glaringly obvious to anyone
who who is halfway reality based and halfway informed. Not a large number, sadly, seem to fit that category, despite their self-perceptions.

Words from 150 years ago by one F. Engels:

The Afghans are a brave, hardy, and independent race; they follow pastoral or agricultural occupations only, eschewing trade and commerce, which they contemptuously resign to Hindus, and to other inhabitants of towns. With them, war is an excitement and relief from the monotonous occupation of industrial pursuits.

The Afghans are divided into clans<41>, over which the various chiefs exercise a sort of feudal supremacy. Their indomitable hatred of rule, and their love of individual independence, alone prevents their becoming a powerful nation; but this very irregularity and uncertainty of action makes them dangerous neighbours, liable to be blown about by the wind of caprice, or to be stirred up by political intriguers, who artfully excite their passions.

...

Their khans have the right of punishment even to the extent of life or death. Avenging of blood is a family duty; nevertheless, they are said to be a liberal and generous people when unprovoked, and the rights of hospitality are so sacred that a deadly enemy who eats bread and salt, obtained even by stratagem, is sacred from revenge, and may even claim the protection of his host against all other danger.

From: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/afghanistan/index.htm


When I was there with my slightly scarfed companion, traveling by public bus and staying in non-tourist hotels, before Brzezinski persuaded Carter that importing fanatic crazies, provoking Soviet intervention, and turning it into a killing field was a Really Good Thing, the people I encountered were still, despite the vast cultural divide, "a liberal and generous people."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thank you for that interesting article
Are you saying that you were there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Yes, I was there in 1970 and again in 1971
Edited on Sun May-17-09 01:36 AM by ConsAreLiars
(Apologies for the formatting error in the above post.)

The following excerpt from a previous post (in my DU journal) may give you an idea of what it was like:

We had decided to go to India overland and had no clue about what Afghanistan would be like, beyond seeing it as a place on the map. Much of what I post on DU and copy into my journal is just a plea for others to see the Afghan people as no less human than anyone in their own family. Here's an excerpt from one:

After Iran and the end of the rail lines in Meshad, we took a van transport on a dirt road to the border station for entry into Afghanistan. We arrived late at night. Customs was closed so the tent went up in the median between the two inbound/outbound lanes. A Teahouse on the other side was still lighted and seeking some tea or food we went in. Neither, or more likely some tea that I have no memory of, but a palm sized disk of Afghan Black. (Yeah, I know, a teahouse at an isolated border station is almost certainly frequented almost exclusively by border guards and customs personnel, but I figured if they just wanted to bust me and hold me for ransom they didn't need any such antics.) A trippy weird night (search Tennyson and Kipling and Afghan Black for a bit more) and totally appropriate, for we had entered, for the first time, a completely alien world. I learned more there than anywhere. See my journal for more on all that.

But even there, in this utterly different world, I was free. We went where we chose, even freely in and out of a Kabul jail without being asked for documents or being frisked. I was not seen as an enemy. A guest. A bit alien and strange, maybe, but as a guest to be protected and even given special courtesies. We walked to a Buzkashi contest on the edge of Kabul and stood on the periphery of the crowd, and those with a better view from the small set of bleachers insisted we climb up there and join them. Same treatment as in Finland or remote parts of India. Other countries as well, with the same lessons.


I hope people also visit the photo gallery at http://www.lukepowell.com/ (the first link in my sig). I think it helps us better see Afghanistan for what it really is.


(edit because it's always something.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. When it comes to the history of Afghanistan, I know we’re not supposed to look back but…
Edited on Fri May-15-09 09:56 AM by Larry Ogg
Looking back shows that the current American collective conscious barely knew Afghanistan existed prior to 911, but as usual, the void of understanding is filled with official versions of authoritarian bias, religious doctrinaire, political rhetoric and propaganda, and for the most part the uniformed, or more truthfully speaking, the information managed collective, began looking forward on 911; while at the same time, some unpatriotic truth seekers - smart enough not to swallow the official version - began to look back through time and point out that our chickens have simply come home to roost (which was my first thoughts); while others were pointing out that 911 was the work of those who where jumping up and down and hooting the infamous lie, “They hate us for our freedom…” Now I had a hard time believing this was possible at first, no way could our very own blood soaked chicken hawks do such a thing and get away with it, but when you begin to strip away the ideological façade and look back through time , study the history of evil from a certain psychological perspective and begin to connect the dots, a familiar pathological pattern begins to be seen.

Of course it’s easy to blame the inflamed religious hornets nest in countries like Afghanistan which has yet to emerge from the dark ages, but it’s another thing to spend billions of dollars to ensure that they remain inflamed and in the dark ages, for the benefit of economic elites worlds away…
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found a good article written in 2001 that puts pre-911 American meddling in Afghanistan into a perspective that is often overlooked but sounds strangely familiar, as the authors closing statement in the article puts it like this.

<snip>
Whatever the U.S. government's current rhetoric about the repressive nature of the Taliban regime, its long history of intervention in the region has been motivated not by concern for democracy or human rights, but by the narrow economic and political interests of the U.S. ruling class. It has been prepared to aid and support the most retrograde elements if it thought a temporary advantage would be the result. Now Washington has launched a war against its former allies based on a strategic calculation that the Taliban can no longer be relied upon to provide a stable, U.S.-friendly government that can serve its strategic interests. No matter what the outcome, the war is certain to lay the grounds for more "blowback" in the future.

Phil Gasper is a professor of Philosophy at Notre Dame de Namur University, and is also a member of the International Socialist Organization in San Francisco.


And here’s the link to the full article
From http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html

Keep up the good work Dr. Dale
K&R
Larry
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. "the void of understanding is filled with official versions of authoritarian bias"
+ 1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you Echo
Your sigline quote from Michael Parenti parallels my line of reasoning, so I will take “+1” as meaning a compliment.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Absolutely. As was intended
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Thank you Larry
Isn't that the truth? What a sad commentary. I agree that this war will lay the ground for more blowback.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. John F. Kennedy's response to pressure from his military to send combat troops into Vitetnam
JFK was continuously pressured by his military and CIA to send combat troops into Vietnam. He continually refused to do that, despite the unanimous advice from his military advisors that he do so (though it is true that some of the "advisors" he sent to Vietnam did secretly participated in combat.)

Daniel Ellsberg, the man who leaked the Pentagon Papers and partially wrote them, did not understand this attitude. He discussed the issue with JFK's brother Bobby. James Douglass, in his book "JFK and the Unspeakable -- Why he Died and Why it Matters", relates the following conversation on this issue:

Robert Kennedy answered that his brother was absolutely determined never to send ground combat units to Vietnam, because if he did, the U.S. would be in the same spot as the French -- whites against Asians, in a war against nationalism and self-determination.

Ellsberg pressed the question: Was JFK willing to accept defeat rather than send troops?

RFK said that if the president reached the point where the only alternative to defeat were sending ground troops or withdrawing, he intended to withdraw. "We would have handled it like Laos," (where JFK had engineered a coalition government between the Communists and others, as desired by the Laotionas) his brother said.

That's the kind of thinking we need on this issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 10th 2024, 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC