Just got profiled by the 5-0... a little rattled.

[Tiggeroshii]

I just got home after being pulled over by two cops(one car)because, although I am of mixed race, look hispanic; and was with a friend that was black.

I was driving along when I passed up the cop car which was responding to a report that a hispanic person and a black person were running behind some apartments. This happened at 1 15 AM when my buddy and I were finished eating at the burger place and I was dropping him off. When I pulled over, the cop acted particularly cautious with me, as he firmly shouted orders, asking both my friend and I for our ID's. After receiving them, he explained why he pulled us over(simply responding to the phone call and simply because I look hispanic and my friend is black). He took my license, looked at it, then took my friend's license and looked at it for about 6 minutes. After questioning us about where we were again and again, he let us go. I got his last name, but not his badge number.

This is the first real time anything like this has happened to me and I am strongly considering reporting it to the aclu, the officer's police department, and my local newspaper. Does somebody know at all how legal the cop's actions were(what reasonable cause is recognizable by law)? Am I overreacting? Any suggestions?

[wake.up.america]

1. Move to another area.

[Tiggeroshii]

3. It's not the worst area really,

But I suppose I should consider it -it's definitely not the best. That suggestion does actually make me feel a little better. Thanks

[Tiggeroshii]

2. .

mispost

[mahina]

4. Raciscm is a reality, here too.

Sorry that occurred.
Only you know how far you want to take it. The ACLU will tell you if they can do anything.
In my town you don't dare complain about the cops, and some of them are really, really bad.
Most are good of course...

[Tiggeroshii]

5. Thanks.

Yeah, most cops I believe are serving with the best intentions. I think even these guys have the best intentions, I am worried however, about the legality for which they acted with those intentions.

[krispos42]

6. You matched the description and he was civil...

So I'd let it go as a reasonable suspicion by a diligent officer. However, maybe you can get a copy of the phone call just to confirm there actually was one. It should be public record, I would think. Get it soon in case they only keep them a week or something.

If the cop pulled you over because you and your friend are minorities and then just lied about the phone call, THEN call the ACLU and let them go at it!

[Tiggeroshii]

8. That's true

Also I drive a crummy old car which makes it even more suspicious, and we were there at the right time. I guess it could all be a matter of luck huh?

[krispos42]

11. Only the dispatch tapes will know for sure

This cop might have some kind of history of doing this. Or not. I'd hate to make baseless accusations against him. I'd also hate to have him busting people for 'driving while black'.

I like my car. 1989 Olds Regency 98. Cops just don't seem to notice it. Of course, I'm white, so maybe that's it! :-)

[Tiggeroshii]

12. Well the thing is I heard them cursing afterwards almost like they were really frustrated

I didn't get them anywhere.... So I really am confident they thought we were who they were looking for at first.

[krispos42]

14. Sounds like you answered your own question!

Damn, I'm good. I should be a therapist or something :-)

Okay, lie back, and tell me about your mother... :rofl:

[LiberalFighter]

45. Sounds like they were hoping to get the collar

But at least it appears they had the decency not to try and frame you.

They may had been cursing after finding out the 2 suspects were already caught.

[hlthe2b]

34. I'd try to detach your feelings and imagine being in the officer's

shoes... Now, hold on, I'm not saying he was right... bear with me...

If there is no way you can imagine that the officer truthfully WAS acting in good faith--that there was a report that suggested, however coincidentally, that someone matching your description might have been involved in a crime--then you should persue it further. As someone upstream suggested, perhaps you could reassure yourself by trying to confirm that complaint had actually come through and the officer was not making it up.

It feels shitty to be regarded with suspicion and treated this way when there is some justification for it to have happened, but at least you can deal with that. But, that would not be abuse of power as racially profiling without cause would definitely be.

Sorry this happened to you.

[Journeyman]

7. On the face of it, I'd say the cop could justify his actions. . .

if all he did was pull you over, check id's and question your recent actions, it'd be hard to prove he'd acted out of line if in fact he had a citizen's complaint about people matching you and your friend's general appearance.

I wonder why he'd be so involved with such a vague complaint, unless there was a recent history of problems involving a criminal duo in the neighborhood.

In my own experience, I've been stopped and questioned for walking with long hair (middle of the day), rousted for sleeping in a highway rest stop (middle of the night), pulled over because my passengers were black (middle of vacation), and (my favorite) questioned at length about weapons and intentions when a buddy and I simply walked over to the store to buy more rum -- and this, despite the store owner telling the cops he knew me well and found me no threat whatsoever. And I'm white -- Irish, 'tis true, but that's not much of an issue in California.

So as I say, if all they did was check id's and ask general questions, I don't think there's much you can or should do about it. It'd be nice if they didn't bother us, but even the most innocuous police work is going to impact us in a multitude of ways.

[Tiggeroshii]

10. I guess what really rattled me is...

I drive a stick and forgot to pull my emergency and almost backed into his car while he was questioning me. He said "PULL THE BREAK, PULL THE BREAK!"

I guess I would have done the same if I was in his position, honestly...x(

[Journeyman]

15. LOL. . . now THAT would have been hilarious. . .

Not for you, but if by chance he had his camera rolling and you ended up on one of those cop shows.

Unfortunately, you'd probably have learned what I did the bleak and nasty night I hit a sheriff's deputy in a drunken blackout. I was a teenager, which saved me from a nasty beating, but those two officers twisted and pummelled me with great creativity, slapped the handcuffs on my left wrist after they pulled my arm so far behind me and over my head that they touched my forehead with the back of my hand, then chucked me first in a squad car, then in a drunk tank, where I lay on cold concrete and stale vomit until my Mom got me out hours later. I have never felt so physically abused -- it took me three days to bring my left arm in front of my body -- and they didn't leave a mark. Not the worst arrest story I've ever heard -- but nothing I ever wanted to repeat, either.

[Tiggeroshii]

18. It would have actually

My sis was arrested and held in a jail for several days willingly when she was my age protesting the WTO. I thought that was bad, but I think it's far worse when you aren't wanting it. I am very sorry about your predicament.

[Journeyman]

19. No need to be sorry for it. . .all those incidents happened 20 years ago or more. . .

and ever since I got sober and stayed that way, I've avoided adding to my grief. All they are now are dated war stories, jumbled nightmares that happened to someone else.

[Laughing Mirror]

9. This has happened so many times over the past 5 decades

To me and to others I know that I consider it to be standard operating procedure. It's never a surprise any more, and I never get rattled.

Take action in what ever way you see fit.

[MrSlayer]

13. That's called an officer doing his job.

If he gets a call about two people matching your description in the same area, he has to stop you. That's what the police do. You were not abused or harrassed and you were let go, the ACLU will laugh at you for wasting their time. This isn't even close to profiling.

[Tiggeroshii]

17. Yeah.

I was just pissed off I almost hit his car after not pulling my emergency break and I think I was simply taking my frustration out on him. He yelled "PULL THE BREAK PULL THE BREAK!" Very angrily. I was also mad about that. And I wanted to go home. So I was rattled about mostly almost causing damage to a government vehicle and being tired. While I am not happy I was pulled over and questioned, I am glad he did what he felt was needed.

[unblock]

16. i don't think this is improper profiling unless it fits a larger pattern

so it might be worth reporting to the aclu just so they can keep tabs. but there's nothing wrong, in and of itself, with the police using physical descriptions to try to catch the bad guys.

as long as the incident was genuine, leaving them with a temporary justification to search for a pair more-or-less meeting your description, there's no problem with his actions.

the problems come in if there's a "standing" lookout for any "suspicious" blacks, e.g.

[Tiggeroshii]

20. What's illegal about running behind apartments late at night?

I guess that bothers me alittle. There hasn't really been a whole lot of crime around here, and they were acting on such a broad report. IT's suspicious, but should they have really been doing that? We sorta assumed they had nothing better to do.

[BlueStateModerate]

22. Nothing's illegal about that

That's why he didn't arrest you. :shrug:

I understand that this would be really irritating, but it sounds like the cop acted fairly reasonably, although he may have been unnecessarily gruff.

[Tiggeroshii]

23. I suppose it is probable cause to pull somebody over for

...simply because it is suspicious?

[Clark2008]

29. Nothing - but there may have been a break-in he didn't tell

you about.

Or - maybe they just wanted to tell the actual "suspects" to move on from behind the apartments because they were scaring folks.

That's the grunt of real police work. It's not like Law & Order. :)

[WilliamPitt]

21. A friend of mine got jacked up by the cops the other day.

They hassled him six ways from Sunday, searched him and demanded to know where he was coming from, really gave him the full treatment. The cops, after deciding he was not their man, explained that he fit the description of a man who had beaten the crap out of his wife and was being sought for assault.

My friend is perhaps the whitest man in Boston, full Irish with a green Celtics shamrock-emblazoned hat permanently on his head. The cops still did a number on him.

I make NO kind of equivalent comparisons between your experience and his, except to say this: cops sometimes have to hassle innocent people. They have to do this so bastards who beat up their wives don't get away with it. In the case of my friend, they rousted the wrong Irish white guy. After they finished scaring the shit out of him, when they told him why they did it, he wished them luck in finding the tough guy who battered his wife. Probably, you would too. I sure would. Wife-beater? Go get 'im.

There's a whole galaxy of difference between this fairly unique moment, and the broad systemic profiling of African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians and/or Arabs who find themselves a) driving through a wealthy ZIP code at night; b) boarding an airplane; c) followed through a retail store by employees who assume dark skin = thief; d) Etc. Of course there is. My 'white Irish friend' story doesn't alter those truths. I offer it only as food for thought.

My advice is to give it a day and let the whole matter gel in your mind. If you think you got treated unfairly, lodge a complaint.

[youngdem]

24. Sorry about your experience, but the cop did NOTHING wrong from your description

You don't really want to blindfold the cops by saying they cant respond to a call about a black male suspect by saying he has to search a few white gals as well just to keep it fair, do you?

Sorry this happened, but you matched the description. If this were your home that were burglarized and you saw a cop pass up two suspects who matched the description and were in the area, just because he didn't want to be racist by examining a suspect who matched the description, you would be rightly pissed off.

And how did you want a policeman to approach a potential pair of suspects? A warm bear hug? Cops are a bit unpopular with the criminals, so they tend to be cautious.


Sorry dude. Sounds like this cop did his job, was firm but polite, determined you were no risk, and sent you on your way.

NOT time for the ACLU. Time for a beer. That's all.

[Tiggeroshii]

25. Beer...

Good idea! :9

[RapidCreek]

26. If a white man and black man robbed your house and drove

away in a Chevy Impala and it was reported by a neighbor, I gotta wonder how you would feel if the cops came by your house a 1/2 hour later to talk to you when you were at home and a white man and black man drove by your house in a Chevy Impala while you stood outside chatting and these cops made no move to stop and question them.....would you feel, like they didn't give a shit 'bout no Hispanic getting robbed? Would you cry and whine about it?

Yea, your over reacting...the police officers were doing their job....which last time I checked, is pretty rare, but completely legal. The ACLU would laugh you right out of their office. I imagine the police station would give the officers an "atta boy" for actually doing their job...and the newspaper people would yawn.

RC

[Clark2008]

27. He was responding to a specific call and doing his job.

It doesn't sound like he was rough with you. And, because this was specific call, you were not profiled. They were looking for someone who was hispanic and someone who was black. That fit you guys - or so the cop thought at 1:15 a.m.

It's never any fun being pulled over by the police and it can raise your blood pressure level and get those nerves pumping, but, really, there's nothing there. He was just doing his job.

[xultar]

28. Unfortunately you guys matched the description of the parties he was looking for...BUT

if there really wasn't a call that night for parties matching that description then...call the ACLU.

[Alamom]

33. White, middle-aged, petite female returning home late one night from

my 30th High School Reunion. About 5 miles from my home, I heard and saw heliocopters over the interstate, State troopers and local police everywhere. All of a sudden, 2 cars were behind me lights and sirens...as I pulled to the side to stop, one pulled angled in front of me. They had me boxed in. 2 or 3 heliocopters were overhead shining lights all around.

One came up on my side with his gun drawn and a huge light shining in my face. Some (?) others were on the other side of the car, with guns, shining lights all in the back and floor boards. Yelling loudly, pop open the trunk !

This went on for a few minutes, long enough for me to panic. Finally they calmed down and seemed satisfied that I wasn't who or what they thought.

I just sat there stunned. A young cop came up and said, "They knew they scared me to death, but a child had been kidnapped about an hour before. There were reported sightings of the car in the area where I was.
The description of the person matched me and she was driving a car exactly like mine.

An older cop came up and abruptly said, "Sorry, but this is about a missing kid and you being scared (by us) is not our priority. The kid is.....


A little later, they caught the right person and got the child.

[MadHound]

30. I know that it sucks getting jacked up by the cops,

But from your description, the cops had a legit reason to do so. Hell, a buddy and I got much worse treatment than you, simply because we were both white, driving around in an old brown Ford truck. A couple of guys fitting our description had just robbed the DQ at gunpoint. We happened to be traveling through, got popped by the cops, and by the time we pulled over, had four cop cars surrounding us and a bunch of guns pointing in our direction. Yeah, it sucks, but I think that the cops were just doing their job, checking out people who fit the description.

Sorry for your experience though, legit or not it sucks being hassled by a cop.

[Uben]

31. Lighten up, man

I am a 52 yr old white male, and I have been profiled, too. I was driving home from visiting my daughter in college....I passed a state trooper on I-35 near Waco, Tx...he was on the other side of the highway. He turned around about a mile after he passed me, sped up, followed me for a couple minutes , then pulled me over. I was driving the speed limit, using cruise control.
He stated I was going 2 mph over the limit, and I was weaving. I explained I had my cruise control on and if I was weaving, it was because he was in my blind spot, and I needed to locate him for safety's sake. He wrote me a warning for speeding, and for having window tint too dark, although it was factory tinting, and he had checked it with his meter!

So, why did he really pull me over? I was driving a big long black cadillac with tinted windows, on a drug trtafficking highway. He asked me where I worked to drive such a nice car (this pissed me off), and I told him I was a business owner in Dallas.

After answering a few more leading questions, I signed the warning ticket and left. In Texas, you say "yes sir" and "no sir" to troopers when you know you are getting cited, warning or not.
My nephew is a state trooper. He told me the guy was just profiling me, and the guys that patrol that particular stretch of highway are always looking for drugs.

That was the first time that I know I was profiled. They can pretty much manufacture a reason to stop you, and there's not much one can do except cooperate, and be on your way.

[sendero]

32. The only thing about your story..

... that bothers me is that "running behind some apartments" is not a crime as far as I know. Had they said that a hispanic and black man had just been seen involved in a crime, they would have NOT been doing their job if they didn't question you, because you fit a somewhat unique description.

[qanda]

35. White people don't understand what it's like to be a minority

And be to be treated this way. What if the report was of two white people running behind someone's house? Would they have pulled over all the white people they saw DRIVING around? My husband has been pulled over a number of times for bogus reasons. If the people in the description had not committed a crime then what was the need to pull anyone over? It doesn't even make any sense. Yet people, that have never had to experience this type of violation, have nerve to tell you that you're overreacting.

I'm sorry that you had to go through that and I empathize with what you are feeling.

[MadHound]

36. I'm white, and I have been pulled over

Because a friend and I fit a general description of a pair of criminals who had just jacked the local DQ at gunpoint. Rather than being greeted by a single semi-polite officer, we were greeted by multiple officers with guns drawn and bullhorn advising us to get out of the truck with our hands up.

I'm not denying that profiling happens, it does all the time. But in this case I do think that, if the info is true, the OP is over reacting a bit.

[qanda]

37. Can you remind what crime had been committed here?

Running while black and Hispanic?

[MadHound]

38. Please, don't be so condescending.

If you have people, of any race or color, running around behind apartments at 1:15 in the morning, the cops will be called. This is normally considered suspicious behavior by the vast majority of people, due to the distinct possibility of robbery, B&E, rape, peeping toms, etc. etc. If I saw a couple of guys doing this behind my apartment complex, I would call the cops, no matter what the race of people in question. So would most people in this country.

And the police would come and investigate.

[qanda]

41. I'm not trying to be condescending

But I've read through this thread and the white people who have been pulled over have been so more because of their car than their color. If two white people were running behind a building, I can almost guarantee you that the cops wouldn't have been pulling over all the white people that passed by. This is an issue that really gets to me because I can honestly see if a serious crime had been committed, like armed robbery or kidnapping, but why pull someone over when NO crime was committed.

[MadHound]

43. I understand what you're saying, and for the most part I agree with you

But I have indeed seen white people pulled over for simply being white. In SW Missouri there were a series of white supremiscists on the loose for a five year period of time about twenty, twenty five years ago. If you were white, you were pulled over, if not, you weren't:shrug:

I understand your frustration, and actually share it with you, but I still don't think that this particular event was anything sinister. It wouldn't suprise me that if it was two white men, then lots of pairs of white men would have gotten pulled over.

[qanda]

44. Thank you

And I really didn't mean to sound condescending but it does get frustrating to try to explain what it's like to be a minority any be profiled in any number of situations.

[treestar]

53. Can they stop people when they are only investigating

"suspicious behavior" though? I think they can stop people doing something suspicious in the act of it and do a pat-down, as in Terry v. Ohio, or stop someone due to probable cause for committing a crime, but it does not sound like that is the case here.

Even if OP and friend "matched the description" (which should take a little more than just being a pair who are white and black) there was no underlying crime.

If they were still doing this suspicious running, maybe a Terry stop could have been made, but by the time it was made, they were not.

This whole scenario would actually made a good law school exam question.

[donco6]

40. He wasn't arrested, so obviously no crime.

But cops do have the right to pull over - even DETAIN suspects within limits.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. "I fit a general description of a pair of criminals"

Was the general description "a white guy?"

[MadHound]

56. No, actually the description was of two white guys, both of a certain height

Driving a vaguely described "truck":shrug:

[youngdem]

46. Some white people do, actually (a LITTLE)

Here in New Orleans, the police have an open, stated policy (ESPECIALLY in Jefferson) of pulling over people who don't 'belong' in a neighborhood. Sheriff Harry Lee in Jeff Parish is doing this and saying it, while Riley is doing it without saying it.

We do construction on housing for the poor here in New Orleans, and we build new homes for section 8 tenants, all of which are in bad neighborhoods.

Just today we had a white site super get pulled over, and the black cop's question was 'what are you doing in Hollygrove' and he had to prove he had a reason to be there, then had to sit through a lesson from the cop on how white people are targets in this neighborhood, and how he should never come over there. I have received the same talk a few times.

NOT SAYING this gives me ANY sense of what it is like day in and day out to be a minority, but your blanket statement deserved a rebuttal.

[Tiggeroshii]

50. I'm not even hispanic

I'm mixed race(half white half japanese), and a lot of my life I just considered myself white. Once in a while people would think I'm hispanic, but most of the time I could probably pass for white. Which is partly why I thought being pulled over was absurd.

[donco6]

39. I'm a white guy and this happened to me.

A guy matching my description and driving a vehicle somewhat like mine robbed a store. They pulled me over pretty much like you got pulled over. Same thing, acting very cautious, got license, looked at it, called it in, blah blah. Sat there for about 20 mins with the lights flashing and all. Then they gave me my license back and let me go.

I think he was just trying to do his job. I certainly don't have any hard feelings about it, though at the time it was VERY inconvenient.

[Princess Turandot]

42. This brought back a memory..

which I can't resist sharing. I do not mean to make light of your experience.

Several decades ago, I went to college in Baltimore. For those of you who don't know the city, it has alleyways that run parallel to many if not most of its north-south oriented streets. The alleys are behind the buildings and are wide enough to allow for cars to drive up.

One evening at about 10PM, my black roommate and I were ambling up an alley back to our apartment after having committed Grand Theft Milk Crate. In truth, I was the one who wanted the milk crates - she as a loyal friend was just helping me carry them. We had clipped them from behind a local supermarket and decided to walk the 4 blocks back to our cross-street in the alley because we were committing a crime. (The 8 crates were probably worth less than $10 total lol.)

We'd gone about a block when headlights appeared behind us. Of course, it was a police car. They pulled over and an officer got out and asked us what we were doing. I have no recollection of what we told him beyond where we went to school, as we stood there watching our scholarships go down the tubes. It turned out that there had been some recent assaults on women in the area - something that the college had not informed us of. The officer then proceeded to give us a safety lecture and told us to exit the alley to the main street. (The alleys were neither well lighted or traveled.) They followed behind us until we did so.

Days of innocence, I guess. I actually still have two of the crates in my closet.

[yardwork]

48. I've been stopped twice by police apparently for driving white in a black neighborhood

Both times the police officers clearly thought that I was there to buy drugs. Both times I had my children in the back seat - this made no difference to the police officers who stopped me.

Both times the police officers pulled me over and scrutinized my license and asked me a lot of questions and made various phone calls (obviously running my car and license). Both times they finally let me drive on. One of them yelled at me for being in a drug neighborhood where I was liable to "get murdered" - that ticked me off because a good friend of mine lived there and if it was safe enough for her I don't see why it wasn't safe enough for me to visit, besides the police don't own the roads.

I let it go.

[helderheid]

49. I'm white, but this happened to me and some friends once when I was a teen.

We were just leaving an underage club where we'd gone dancing. We were pulled over and one at a time we were told to get out the the car, put our hands on our heads and back up towards them where they cuffed us, all this time with guns pulled on us.

We were in a car that matched the description of a car that had just been seen leaving a burglery. There were the same number of us in our car as in the other car described. Once they realized we were not guilty, they let us go.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

51. My daughter had a similar experience once

A local police officer had been shot and killed. They were looking for the shooter and followed a lead on the type of car his GF drove thinking she may be involved in helping him escape.

My daughter was unaware of all of this taking place and was in the process of driving herself to school. A patrol car pulled up on her right on a five lane highway. Another pulled up behind her, somewhere around this point they all turned on their lights. There was another in front of her and one that had moved into the turn lane to her left. They forced her to a stop in the middle of the highway. Once she stopped they proceeded toward her vehicle with their guns drawn. Upon questioning her they discovered she was not the latino girl driving a black Honda they were looking for. Hell, she wasn't even driving a black Honda but a green Saturn.

I was pissed, needless to say. I suggest you do as I did and give it bit of time to gel in your mind before you make any decisions. At least in your case they were closer than in my daughters.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. It Was Decent Profiling In My Opinion. Sometimes We Have To Deal With The Inconvenience.

Since it was early am and there are only so many people out at that time, and you and your friend fit the preliminary description and were in the general vicinity, then I think it perfectly reasonable that you were checked out.

But it sounds like they were civil towards you and you left without incident. I truly don't see a cause for alarm here.

[warren pease]

54. Standard practice, standard excuse

If you check and find out an alert was actually issued corresponding to the one they messed with you for, then they acted in good faith. However, in the '60s and early '70s this used to happen all the time, to me and to just about everybody I knew who looked, um... unconventional. The "fits the description" excuse. The "broken tail light" excuse. The "worn tires" excuse. The "driving with high beams on" excuse. And so on. And this was in the Bay Area, not some redneck infested hell hole in middle america.

My brother in law the CHP sergeant tells me this is just what they do when they're bored. Passes the time while waiting for something exciting to happen.

I actually went to jail twice for the crime of looking for cigarettes at 2:30 in the morning while having long hair and driving a rat car. The actual crime was stupidity on my part for expecting anything else, particularly after the first episode, but it still involved strip searches and a night in the drunk tank. No charges were filed, of course, because no crime had been committed. Amazing how that crap stopped when I trimmed my hair and had a car made in the same decade that I drove it.

Anyway, if they're legit, great. If there was no alert, then welcome to the club.

Disclaimer: as a white guy, I can't pretend to know how it feels for a non-white to go through this kind of inquisition. However, having hair down to ones navel back in the day was the closest white guys could come to identify with things like Black liberation and get a small dose of the kind of systemic oppression non-whites get as part of the great american experience. And while we could always shave, get a hair cut and get back into society's good graces, that option wasn't available to non-whites.

wp

[Tiggeroshii]

55. This is probably about the 3rd time I think I was pulled over because of race

The last time this happened I was with the same friend, and the excuse for pulling me over was no license plate light. HE let me go, and I didn't really think of it as profiling, but your post has made me reconsider. I have also been stopped while walking in the street in broad day light iwht a wooden chess board that folds, locks and cases the pieces. The cop stopped my bro and me, asked what we had in our hands and said he thought it was a brick. Again, what is against the law about carrying a brick?

In this incident, I thought that they were looking to pull me over for whatever they can. I was going the speed limit, my tags were legit and all the lights worked, so it's possible they made the whole thing up.

I will look into it.