neo cons/repugs are always bad mouthing Canada's health system

[ensho]

giving all kinds of untrue stats.

why don't Canadians complain about this? or do they? seems like they would answer back with at least accurate states.

maybe they do and it doesn't reach our media.

now don't go replying to this thread with your opinion of Canadian health care. that's not what this thread is about.

the thread is asking if Canadians are irked over being bad mouthed and used by the neo cons/repugs as a reason not to have universal health care.

[theoldman]

1. I know several people that live in Canada.

They ignore our ignorant right wing Republicans. If you lived in a $500,000 house, would you not ignore someone who lived in a $200,000 house who criticized your house? I do not criticize anyone who is jealous of what I have. BTW, those black flies in Canada really bite. Now that is something the Canadians worry about.

[Kingofalldems]

2. Blue Dog dems don't like it either

Oh wait, they're repubs.

[Tyler Generation]

3. I just watched a Dan Rathers report on this

A lot of Canadians are unhappy with not being able to pay for private insurance(mostly due to the slowness of their healthcare system). Some come to America for health service, but are not happy with the price obviously.

Of course a lot of people are fine with the system. Yes, there is a lot of BS propaganda talking points from the right but it would be naive to think every Canadian is totally happy with their health system.

[ensho]

4. don't know how accurate Rathers' stats are

I rather hear stats that come from Canadians

[Tyler Generation]

8. Well it's not like they were interviewing fake Canadians

I don't recall a bunch of stats being brought out, just regular people with different opinions/health situations. Some good, some bad.

Like I said it's ridiculous to think every single person in Canada is happy with their system. They may be dumb for not appreciating what they got, but it's their opinion to have.

[Oregone]

7. Of course they are unhappy...

Until they have to pay a fortune for private insurance for their basic needs and until they realize it doesn't always honor claims, the grass will always be greener (not to mention, private insurance sets pre-existing conditions and operates in a near-fraud like state).

Whenever I talk to Canadians about health-care, they initially cannot even wrap their heads around this idea; they cannot fathom that I know families that have gotten over a million dollars in bills WITH insurance, and I know others that have lost homes and gone bankrupt. Once you mention the reality of private insurance, they normally admit how lucky they are. Yeah, its all anecdotal, but I have a lot of anecdotal experience talking with Canadians about health-care. The thing is, its a silly joke of a system to some of them, until they have to think of the alternative (and some cannot even comprehend the extreme nature of the alternative).

Do you think people who pay upwards of $100 a month and never have to hassle with billing and combating claims departments (as well as merely obtaining it in the first place), have any realistic conception of the pros and cons of private insurance? The same goes vice versa. Its a completely different world.

[Spazito]

10. That is a fallacy, Canadians overwhelmingly support retaining their healthcare system...

Here is a very good summary of our system, how Canadians feel about it and what reforms are needed. It is written by Roy Romanow who headed the Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada, the most recent comprehensive look at our system, completed and published November 28, 2002:

http://www.uottawa.ca/services/markcom/news/documents/Romanow_speech-e.pdf

The Canadian public's support for their healthcare system is confirmed again and again in opinion surveys. They show that the Canada Health Act and its five principles consistently have the support of between 93 and 98% of adult Canadians (IBM 2005).

Our system is NOT perfect, needs consistent tweaking to keep it current as to the needs of Canadians but Canadians do NOT want the system changed in any profound way.

[Tyler Generation]

11. I never said they did

I just said some people on the show had some complaints. Damn.

[Spazito]

12. Yeah, you did...

"A lot of Canadians are unhappy with not being able to pay for private insurance(mostly due to the slowness of their healthcare system). Some come to America for health service, but are not happy with the price obviously."

That is the fallacy, "a lot of Canadians" is quite different than "some people on the show". The deliberate misinformation being put out by HMOs, etc, needs to be confronted at every turn, especially when it is fronted by 'name brands' like Dan Rather, imo.

[Overseas]

5. They choose the worst examples of Canadian care and compare those to their own expensive US plans

What they don't do is compare the worst in Canada with the worst in the USA, because we would lose.

Canadians don't go bankrupt from medical expenses if they're hit by a car.

How do Long Wait Times for certain procedures compare with Zero Health Care for 50 million of us?

They cite the few bad examples they can dig up in Britain and Canada and wave those around by themselves. What they don't do is note that many Americans have long wait times to see the particular doctors who accept their HMO plan.

What they don't do is check out the results of the sometimes long waits in Canada for particular procedures versus the results of millions of Americans waiting too long to go to the doctor even though they feel ill because they don't have insurance. Waiting until the problems are too severe to ignore.

Our wait times are not based on criteria of medical necessity drawn up with medical professional input; they are based on ECONOMIC STATUS. Can you afford insurance? If not, better avoid the doctor.

[ensho]

6. well said

nt

[Overseas]

9. Republican talking point refinement -- Choose your own evildoer

On another thread we were discussing Frank Luntz' talking points for Republicans against national health insurance. But those Republican talking points can be applied to the other side quite easily. Pick your poison:

We don't want government / insurance companies setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.

We don't want government / insurance companies rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment due to medical advisory boards / ability to pay.

We don't want government / insurance company bureaucrats in charge of healthcare.


================

What we really want is NON-PROFIT medical care.

As taxpayers, we already subsidize Research & Development.

We want the ability to get medical treatment when necessary, without worrying about thousands of dollars in bills.

We want people in charge of allocating medical care who do not get millions of dollars in bonuses.

We want the security of knowing that we can't go bankrupt if we're injured in an accident.