Why are SUV's the enemy?

[Rosemary2205]

I always thought the reason so many DUers hated SUV's was because of gas mileage so I did a poll of all the adults in a group I belong to of what they drive and what their mileage is. All the SUV's got as good or better than some of the cars.

Joan, Mom - 1998 Explorer - 18mpg averages 120 miles a week= 6.6 gal a week

Tim, Contractor - 1987 F150 superduty - 8mpg averages 70 miles a week= 8.75 gal a wk ((edit typo and wrong math -- 270 miles a week=33.75 gal a week)) -- Thanks Jonathan!

Karia, real estate agent - 2001 Prius - 44mpg averages 300 miles a week = 6.8 gal a week

Darius, college student - 1975 Mustang - 13mpg averages 150 miles a week= 11.5 gal a week

Josh, office mgr - 2006 Avalon - 18mpg averages 240 miles a week= 13.3 gal a week

Rosemary, me, HR mgr, 1987 Aerostar van w/chairlift - 15mpg averages 90 miles a week= 6 gal a week

Danny, retired - 1997 Escort - 12mpg averages 60 miles a week=5 gal a week

Tammy, HS student, 1998 Grand Prix, no idea mileage or distance but buys about 13 gal of gas a week and we guessed she goes about 120 miles a week = about 9 mpg (she confirmed she thinks her gas mileage is terrible)

Bill, HS coach - 1992 Town & Country van, 16mpg averages 350 miles a week= 21.9 gal a week

Donna, former Ford Employee, just bought 2007 Fusion, 18mpg averages 200 miles a week= 11.1 gal a week (she thinks she'll get a little better mileage once the car is broken in)

Donna, former Ford Employee, last car 1996 Explorer, 21mpg averages 200 miles a week= 9.5 gal a week

Mickie, mom, RV family - 2001 Expedition, 16 mpg avg 80 non tow miles a week and 9mpg w/ about 300 tow miles a week depending on where they go during the summer. Did not do the math on gal a week.

[BlooInBloo]

1. "1996 Explorer, 21mpg " - That's a load of rich creamery butter.

[Rosemary2205]

5. What does yours get?

I do know someone with a 2006 Explorer that says her previous 1996 got better mileage but the 2006 has a bigger engine and can pull the boat where the 1996 had a smaller engine and struggled to get the boat up the hills.

[BlooInBloo]

29. I don't have one - which isn't actually relevant.

[BlooInBloo]

32. Consumer Reports says 17mpg - which is more along the lines of what I woulda thought.,..

... Now, back to your original question: what is there to dislike about SUVs?

First and foremost that their supporters lie to my face about how bad they are mileage/environment-wise.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consumerfed.org%2Fpdfs%2FGas_Mileage_Consumer_Attitudes_Manu_Performance_Press_Release111306.pdf&ei=fv4PRrL-NJPqgwOzvZH7AQ&usg=__lIer5qR0b7f411Vwy8xVn9yLMHM=&sig2=4TI5ByWNkjATmK84ekFuQA

[Rosemary2205]

33. Sorry, I took it like you knew b/c yours was worse

Sorry I misunderstood.

[BlooInBloo]

37. Nope - It's possible to know without actually owning one.

[Ghost in the Machine]

41. No it's not. How do you know what the owner has done to the vehicle?

Would you know if the owner had dual exhaust installed, which increases not only horsepower, but fuel economy as well? What about modified, or hotter burning spark plugs that decrease the amount of "blow by" (unignited fuel)?

How about if they replaced the big all terrain tires with a good set of radials? (this improved the mileage on my truck by at least 9 mpg.

It's one thing to read the consumer reports, but it's a totally different story when you actually own and maintain the vehicle.

Ghost

[BlooInBloo]

50. You win the award for Most Specious Counterexample of 2007. Congratulations!

[Ghost in the Machine]

53. I really didn't expect an intelligent answer from you. I'm glad I keep

my expectations low. As usual, per your modus operandi, you failed to answer ANY of my questions that were asked in all honesty and integrity.

Can you answer my questions please? Are you informed on any of these subjects, or do you prefer to just toss out strawmen, red herrings and your point of view and just expect everyone to believe what you say, even though it isn't supported by facts?

[Skittles]

63. IGNORE is your friend, Ghost

take my advice and use it

[Jonathan50]

58. I'm sorry but you're mistaken..

"What about modified, or hotter burning spark plugs that decrease the amount of "blow by" (unignited fuel)?"

"Blow by" is the combustion gas which leaks by the piston rings and enters the crankcase, which is why cars have (or had?) PCV or Positive Crankcase Ventilation valves.

<nitpick> Actually it's unignited fuel air mixture, not just fuel, fuel must be mixed with air to burn. </nitpick>

"How about if they replaced the big all terrain tires with a good set of radials? (this improved the mileage on my truck by at least 9 mpg."

Were the replacement tires smaller in diameter than the all terrain tires?

That can fool you into thinking you're getting better gas mileage than you really are. Smaller diameter tires mean you don't go as far on each wheel revolution but your odometer will still read the longer distance unless you have the speedo calibrated.

[marlakay]

2. I see your point

Its how much you use not what you drive so much. I have 2 cars and a scooter that gets 100 mpg. I drive that to town in the spring and summer when its warm enough. I live in the mountains and it snows so i do have SUV but use our little car which I also put snow tires on to go the longer trips unless we have to drive over the pass to get to Seattle then I take suv.

So for me I do the best I can and try to use my SUV the least for trips I really need it.

[Taxloss]

3. People like scapegoats.

Of course SUVs are lousy for the environment - the vast majority of petroleum vehicles are. But SUVs make a handy scapegoat that allows people to feel concerned about the environment without looking at their own lifestyles.

[purduejake]

4. What's your point?

Are you suggesting cars are less efficient? You also aren't taking into account driving habits.

[Clintonista2]

54. I think he's making the OPPOSITE point

What he's saying is that DU'ers tend to hate SUV's rather than the driving habits of those who drive SUV's (the real problem).

[Rosemary2205]

65. My point

is that I was surprised to learn that SUV gas mileage is only a LITTLE worse that some cars and minivans. Especially mid to full sized cars. I actually always assumed there was an enormous difference. I hear quite a few DUers say, "well if someone needs to haul cargo get a truck" - but most trucks and SUV's seem to be getting about the same gas mileage -- how how does that solve anything? Getting someone in a big SUV to buy a full sized car doesn't really seem to be saving any gasoline either.

My point is, if the goal is to cut back on gasoline usage we need to be doing what it takes to increase gas mileage in ALL vehicles and to get people out of their vehicles and into public transportation whenever possible. If someone buys the biggest SUV on the market to haul the RV but takes the train to work every day and leave the SUV in the driveway, then what is there to bitch about?

My point is, I don't see how "war on SUV's and their drivers" is productive if other low gas mileage vehicles are not included too. IMHO we need "war on bad gas mileage" and "war on one driver in the car commutes".

Just MHO.

[Clark2008]

6. My 2005 Mustang gets 28 mpg

If you want to add that in.

[purduejake]

10. My Hyundai Elantra gets 26 MPG.

If I'm lucky. I also drive like a bat out of hell. If I drove these SUV's, I'd be lucky to get 15 mpg. Also, I tend to believe the exhaust coming out of a newer car is somewhat more refined than out of older vehicles. The fact of the matter is that it takes MORE energy (gasoline) to move more mass. All things being equal, the SUVs will always loose no matter what anybody here is trying to suggest.

[Clark2008]

35. It's probably the way you drive and not the car.

I also have a manual transmission which saves me a ton in gas on starts and stops.

I keep my oil changed, try to drive a more constant speed (when I can) and use the transmission to help slow the car rather than the brakes. That's why I get such good mileage.

My hubby drives like a bat out of hell, too. LOL. He's learning to drive more like I do to help off-set the cost of gasoline and get better gas mileage.

I'm betting with a car the size of an Elantra, you can can get a good 30-32 mpg if you tried. :)

And P.S. Try not to run the air conditioner a lot. I know on especially hot days, it's a must (I live in the South, trust me, I know), but I use it sparingly. Let it cool the car down and then shut it off for a time. It's not like a house where you're trying to maintain an air temperature. You can't. There's too many gaps that let air escape, unlike a home with thermal windows, siding and insulation. Just use it for a while, turn it off and just run the air and crack a window and then turn it back on when it gets unbearable again.

[Jonathan50]

60. It depends where you are driving if A/C or windows down is more efficient

http://news.carjunky.com/air-conditioning-versus-open-windows-abc477.shtml


When driving on the highway or at speeds greater than 45 mph, open windows increase air drag on the car to a point where fuel efficiency is lost by up to 10%. In cases where the vehicle is running at speeds closer to 55 mph, gas inefficiency reaches the 20% mark. Very simply put, both sides of the debate are correct depending on the kind of driving in question. When town driving, leave the windows open, when highway or higher speeds driving, the AC is definitely the way to go.


I hope this helps.

[Tesha]

79. Sorry, but that's not necessarily true

> When town driving, leave the windows open, when highway or higher
> speeds driving, the AC is definitely the way to go.

Last summer, Mr. Tesha investigated this exact point with our
'96 Dodge Caravan and this turned out to be very bad advice,
at least for this vehicle.

With the AC on (and yes, it's in good operating order), the
mileage was 3-5 MPG lower than with just the ventilation
blower running. By comparison, opening the windows had
essentially no effect.

And yes, to all of you who will also like to claim that speed
doesn't matter, the Caravan's mileage was very sensitive
to speeds greater than 55 MPH. It managed 29 MPG but
only manages about 22-23 MPG at 75 or so.

Tesha

[rocktivity]

7. Only 2 of the people you polled own that's more than 7 years old?

I don't know if that's good or bad!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Rosemary2205]

9. Something in the question didn't translate.

Either than or I'm not thinking good today........ what were you saying???

[rocktivity]

62. I meant, only two of the people you polled own a CAR that's LESS than 7 years old?

Is that good or bad?

:shrug:
rocknation

[Rosemary2205]

66. Well it's Georgia.

I don't know if it's different here or not but with our "ad valorum" tax on cars (a special tax we pay every year based on the value of the car when we get our tags renewed) then Georgians do seem to keep a car a long time because it's so much cheaper ---- plus I live on the "poorish" side of Atlanta so not too many people around here buy new cars all the time. :)

[MadHound]

8. Despite your little poll, the reason that most people hate SUVs

Is because of gas usage and pollution. SUVs do indeed use more gas than most normal passenger cars. And the majority of people who drive SUVs have no real need to have such a large vehicle. In addition, since these vehicles are classified as trucks, they don't have to meet the same pollution standards as passenger cars.

If you haven't noticed, oil is a finite resource that we're starting to run out of. In such times, the ostentacious consumption is more than gauche, it's downright despicable.

It is about we as a people leaving as small an imprint on our enviroment as is possible. SUVs fly in the face of that necessity.

There is no real need for SUVs. If you need a cargo hauler, get a truck(with or without a shell). If you need to haul lots of people, that's what minivans are for. But using these enormous dinosaurs simply for the daily commute is downright obscene.

[purduejake]

12. They're also unsafe for other drivers.

When your bumper is about a foot above mine or would meet the window of my car, the vehicle you're driving is unsafe. Not to mention many people in SUVs have no business driving them because they're top heavy and take forever to stop. I lost a flight career because some girl couldn't handle her SUV and only wanted to pay for minimum insurance coverage. We should start taxing the hell out of SUVs and demand higher insurance coverage.

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. We should start taxing the hell out of SUVs and demand higher insurance coverage.

:puke:

Maybe we should tax the smaller vehicles that aren't as well made or built as sturdy, since they get damaged worse than an SUV and cost more per vehicle to fix than the sturdier built SUV.

See, your argument works both ways.. how does it feel?

[Rosemary2205]

13. What do you suggest

for those who need to haul lots of people AND need to haul cargo - such as a boat or RV or a trailer with their landscape business equipment -- etc.

BTW, as a resident of metro Atlanta and witnessing first hand how MANY vehicles with only one driver go in and out during the daily commute, I too would like to see both our transit system improved and more incentives to get people on the train and out of the car on daily commutes. -- but after doing this anecdotal poll I just don't see any difference between a commuting SUVer and a mid sized or older car driver. Gas usage is gas usage, regardless of what one drives.

[purduejake]

16. If you often haul lots of people and cargo....

Then SUVs make sense. My dad drives a huge truck all year so he can pull a pop-up camper 2x a year. In the city where I live, we have truck rentals. That seems more efficient. And you're ignoring the AMOUNT of gas usage per vehicle/person.

[MadHound]

30. It is amazing what you can do with a minivan

My BIL's family has one, and I've seen them pack two adults, four kids, and all the accoutrements for a week's worth of vacationing:shrug:

Towing isn't as much a function of engine size as it is transmission. You can get vehicles with small engines and low geared trannies that will pull damn near anything. If you do need to haul people with that trailer, well, pickups are available that can carry both people and loads. Most folks don't use them as commuter vehicles, they're strictly work vehicles.

Besides, if you're running a gas powered boat, all you're doing is using up even more oil and polluting the water, thanks:eyes:

And you stated the entire problem with your poll. It is anecdotal, not a true measure. Frankly from the anecdotal poll of the many older cars that I'm personally familiar with, many cars from fifty years ago and on back actually get better gas mileage than SUVs. Part of that reason is that many of the work vehicles used smalle six or four cylinder engines in tandem with load bearing transmissions, thus making their gas usage much more efficient than modern iron, whose answer for everything seems to be a bigger engine.

[Rosemary2205]

38. A question.

I have a friend who is in the market for a vehicle that can hold a lot of people and stuff and can haul the RV and the heavy equipment trailer daily for their business. The family is considering an F150 superduty with a cap on the bed. -- They are currently doing a lease on a GMC heavy duty truck for the business but want to buy now. You mentioned towing can be done with a minivan that will get much better gas mileage. I know this will interest them.

Can you tell you what new minivans on the market are set up for towing heavy loads or can cheaply be set up to do so? Your post sounds like you are a "car guy". I'm asking because I'm a car idiot.

Thanks! :)

[MadHound]

40. You might be able to find a minivan that comes with a tranny that is suitable for towing

As standard equipment. The magic words you're looking for is "towing package". Failing that, you can find many aftermarket transmissions that will hook right up to your minivan engine and work quite well. All of these will be standard transmissions, so I hope they can drive a stick.

[NoGOPZone]

78. Might want to take a gander at the Nissan Quest van

We have a 2007 model and swear by it. Seats seven, tows 3500 lbs with no modifications, and has a payload that exceeds half a ton. Minivans are great for general people and cargo moving.

On edit. EPA rated for 18 city 25 highway

[omega minimo]

64. ding ding ding we have a winner!!

Your post is great. Add in the dangers to other vehicles and drivers and it is "downright obscene."

Strange how seldom the bogus emissions exemption gets mentioned:

"In addition, since these vehicles are classified as trucks, they don't have to meet the same pollution standards as passenger cars."

:yourock:

[Der Blaue Engel]

11. And my 1994 Toyota Tercel gets 35mpg in the city

<1 mile per week.

Your point?

[Jim Warren]

14. Danny, retired - 1997 Escort - 12mpg

averages 60 miles a week=5 gal a week!

Ah, Danny, get a tune-up. Don't forget fuel and air filters, check Ox2 sensor as well.

I get 30mpg winter, 34mpg summer in a '94 wagon.

[Rosemary2205]

15. His car IS a special case

he says that sucker has been a lemon from the get go and he can't wait until it finally dies all together so he can get a Toyota. :)

[Jonathan50]

17. At least a couple of these look pretty fishy..

A contractor that drives 70 miles/week?

A 1997 Escort that gets 12 mpg?

An Explorer that gets 18 mpg, the same as the Avalon which is far more aerodynamic?

My daughter's Explorer is lucky to break 14 mpg.

[purduejake]

19. It's all about driving habits.

But the fact of the matter is that the Avalon is still far more efficient and likely releasing far fewer toxins per gallon.

[Jonathan50]

36. I've driven my daughter's Explorer on a number of occasions.

It has a built in trip computer with a MPG readout, both instantaneous and cumulative.

Despite trying as hard as I could and keeping a close eye on the mpg readout I never managed to get it over 15 mpg.

[Rosemary2205]

24. Oh good catch sorry about that - I'll fix it. Should be 270 miles a week!!

[Gatchaman]

18. I think it demonstrates a scizm between urban and rural

plus the difference between the "sport" and "utility" aspects of the vehicles themselves.

I live in the country. My commute to work is about 20 miles, 12 of which are secondary roads and a two lane state road that passes from one state to the other. As it's along the border where ther is little population or business, neither state puts a lot of effort into maintaing it in the winter (especially WV). A four wheel drive is nice to have. Yes, my old front wheel drive pontiac never actually got stuck, but I had some real scares with it. From later november through the end of march, we bad weather can be expected, and we get at least one really strong snow storm per year, guaranteed.

I'm part owner of a small business. The secure cargo space to haul things is more than a convenience, it's a necessity. My hobby is photography/videography. I have equipment to carry, and when my friends go along (I usually don't go alone), there's even more stuff to carry. The extra space is definitely useful. Did I mention that I'm over 6 feet tall and stocky? Folding myself into a civic is not fun.

These are, of course, all personal reasons, but they're valid reasons for a lot of people. A SUV can be more than a luxury symbol. I know a lot of people who bemoan them because they clog the parking lots at big box retailers in towns that don't have extreme weather, and I can understand and sympathize with that point. A lot of the really big SUVs are examples of conspicuous consumption. It's just short sighted to paint them all with a broad brush.

As for mileage, my V8 explorer got 16 mpg or so in my day-to-day driving, and upwards of 21 mpg on highway trips. My 6 cylinder grand cherokee is actually a little worse, giving me 16 mpg day to day, and little over 18 highway.

[gravity]

34. People drive SUVs for many different reasons.

I think that lumping all SUVs into the same category to criticize them is wrong. Many people need SUVs or trucks for their lifestyles and jobs.

If you are buying an SUV just for the status symbol, then you can criticize them. Some people however need the towing and cargo capacity, and the ability to drive in winter weather conditions. I drive a compact car myself, but I occasional need the cargo capacity of an SUV. Luckily my friend has one that I can borrow.

[Tesha]

81. Oddly enough, the vehicle "upside down and off the road" is often...

> Some people however need ... the ability to drive in winter weather conditions.

Oddly enough, around here in winter, the vehicle "upside down and off the road"
is more often than not an SUV. And we're all stuck in traffic while they clean up
the mess left by that @&*(!&#.

Tesha

[Catherine Vincent]

20. I don't like them because their big asses get in my way when they are in front of me.

n/t

[hfojvt]

21. those numbers do not make any sense to me

Why is a 1997 Escort only getting 12 mpg? What is an Avalon and why does it only get 18 mpg? Why would a 1998 Grand Prix get only 9 mpg? Is this city driving? Going through drive-thru windows?
My 1973 Nova got 20 IIRC and my 1989 Olds was over 25.
Then again, I think it is disgusting that mileages have not improved since 1973. I look at new cars and even small ones barely advertise more than 20.

[Swede]

22. There is no need for most SUV's out there. It is a commercial success that there are.

Huge offroad tires,gigantic bumpers and roll bars that never,ever are needed. Millions of them were sold.

[Mind_your_head]

23. I hate SUV's b/c I can't see around the d*mn things

and SUV drivers seem to be totally oblivious to how their behemoths block the views of folks driving smaller vehicles. I drive a Honda Accord and a Toyota Camry btw.

Recent Examples:

- Four lanes of traffic (two in each direction), I want to take a right-on-red turn with a SUV in the lane to the left of me, I pull up so I can see around him - he goes and pulls up too, thus blocking my view. I can't turn now until the lite changes b/c I can't see if there's any oncoming traffic.

- Pulling out of a parking lot, I want to turn left, SUV pulls up next to me wanting to turn right....he can see OVER the top of my car, but I can't see thru or over his.....he pulls WAY up to the street, so again, I can't see the traffic coming from the right. I now have to wait until he leaves in order to see and go.

- SUV's REALLY take up the whole lane and I RARELY ever see SUV's pulling slightly to the right of the lane a little bit so that the driver behind can see what's up ahead (stopped cars, brakelights of cars ahead or whatever).

- Just two weeks ago, was waiting in a line to pick up someone from the train station. SUV in front of me backs up to pull out of the line and HITS MY CAR! (No damage fortunately) but the driver gets out of the car and says, "I didn't see you". Well, his rear window starts above the top of my car roof! I guess that driver doesn't "do his mirrors" or assumes that the whole world drives an SUV, just like him.

/rant off now.

[Catherine Vincent]

28. I agree with all your rants.

They are too fricking big!

[mwb970]

47. The excess size and view blockage are my gripes as well.

I hate it that they can see over me, but I can't see through them. And they always park next to me in the parking lot so I have to back out blind, which I also hate. (Again, no problem for them!)

There is also the problem that getting in one seems to often lower the driver's IQ by 10 or more points, causing additional driving errors. And they must be impossible to steer, since they generally stray out of their lane on even the gentlest curve.

[azurnoir]

25. Didn't the chimpster

give a special tax break on the purchase of an SUV when gas prices went up?

[Breeze54]

31. Yes he did and the SUV Gas mileage was under reported by Manufacturers

I need to find that link but there was a report that the SUV auto companies lied about actual gas mileage.
It's actually way below what it says on that sales sticker.

[tammywammy]

75. The auto companies don't do the sticker testing

That's the EPA that had outdated testing. They're finally going to start or have started a little more realistic test.

[Ikonoklast]

39. No. Not true.

The tax break was for vehicles purchased over 8000lbs. GVW. That is defined by the gross weight of the vehicle added to its' total rated carrying capacity.

I took advantage of that tax break when I purchased a commercial vehicle, but the tax 'break' was actually only accelerated depreciation, up to a certain value.

[purduejake]

26. How many SUV drivers buy carbon credits?

That would help their image. Of course, we should all probably be doing that if we can afford it.

[Breeze54]

27. Because the owners suck at driving for one reason and

they are rude and pushy. Had a Humvee tailgating me this morning because I wouldn't
go over the speed limit and blow through where a church was getting out! After riding
my tail, he cut off an oncoming car so he could get into Dunkin Donuts faster. They
usually have one person in a huge vehicle, they take two parking spaces, they block
the view of other drivers and they guzzle gas. The drivers seem to have a "Me first!"
and "Fuck you!" attitude, from my past experiences and they suck at driving in snow!
Drivers of huge SUV's usually have small ...ummm... over-compensation issues. ;)

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales gestures


:rofl:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

42. Most of the SUVs where I live have the worst drivers.

Many don't stay in their lanes, most can't make turns properly, and so often they take up two parking spots. Being a driver of a baby Acura Integra, I have problems, when flanked on either side in a parking lot, backing out of my spot!

And honestly, when I drive my small, ECONOMICAL car, I am scared sh*t of being hit by an SUV.

Owners of SUVs should take road tests before being allowed to drive them. These vehicles are light trucks and I think a separate road test for light truck drivers should be mandatory.

So there!

[depakid]

44. It's more than just gas mileage

It reflect a cultural phenomena of arrogance, wastefulness and stupidity.

Most people who drive these hulking things have no real need for them. Most have probably never even engaged their 4 wheel drive- they drive them around the city thinking that their "tough and bad" or somehow safer (which they're not- because they roll and they're less maneuverable and don't stop as well well as other vehicles) but they certainly make other people on the road less safe.

[AlCzervik]

45. a friend of mine does animal rescue, and SUV is a must for her.

[Eric J in MN]

46. SUVs have gas mileage as good as vans and 1975 Mustangs?

Not much of an argument for them.

[mwb970]

48. The single most common driving configuration I see in Columbus

is a woman in an SUV, alone, talking on her cell phone. They are everywhere, especially on weekdays.

Just something I've noticed.

[TheCowsCameHome]

49. Because traffic backs up while they're being winched out of the median strip.

Because some fool driver flipped it over while applying makeup or yakking on the phone while doing 70 in a snow storm.

A huge portion of the idiots that own them think they're invincible.

[Nikia]

51. We have a 2001 Nissan Xterra

It gets about 18 mpg.
It comes in handy during bad weather. With my husband's former job, he did have to haul a lot of equipment.
It is not excessively big. It is not hard to manuever. I got my driver's license as an adult and used it for my driving road test. The only manueverability issues that I have had is that I cannot take corners at as high of speeds as I can with our other car, which is a sports car, and that it handles worse in bad weather if I forget to engage the 4 wheel drive.
I am not sure why it would be a status symbol. We made the mistake of buying it brand new so it wasn't exactly cheap, but probably about average compared to other cars on the lot. With my husband's previous job, he had to drive a lot. There are over 150,000 miles on the vehicle and we have had no problems, which means that we saved money (and green house emissions) by there not having to be a lot of parts replaced or other work done.
If we can afford a newer car when we need to replace it, we will probably get a hybrid. Until then, I don't think that driving it is much worse than driving other vehicles.

[GCP]

52. Because they get 15 mpg in a world where the oil is running out

My Civic gets 35+. Any questions?

[Roland99]

55. I seriously doubt those MPG numbers for the Escort and the Fusion.

[HughMoran]

56. The cars are WAY out of tune

Those cars were seeing ridiculously OFF milage - not the best comparison I've ever seen.

I can see being motivated by a couple of people saying how terrible the milage of their cars was. I mean an escort getting 12 MPG - c'mon!! I could fix that in 2 hours.

[Rosemary2205]

67. My friend would love it if you COULD!

He says that Escort has been a lemon from day one. As soon as the warrantee was off he's had the check engine light come on about every 3 months. He's had the thing everywhere trying to get it fixed and they all say it has something to do with the computer and only Ford has the codes to fix it.

He's spent, he says, close to $6000 on broken stuff on that car. At this point he says he can't wait for it to die again so he can tell his wife, that's it, let it die..... and go buy a Corolla. :)

[blues90]

57. Mileage does vary .

Many people drive by digging into the gas , I see this all the time .

Besides in the late 70's there was a push to make smaller more efficient cars , what happened , the industry decided we can go back to V-8's and then decided everyone needs an SUV for their two small children and all the un-needed crap they haul along and so they can go off road as if anyone does .

If the mileage on an SUV is so great why then have so many people stopped driving theirs lately .

People are sold on the idea of what they need when in reality they need much less .

I worked for ford dealers for many years and most people driving these huge trucks and SUV's were the sole driver , the only one in the damn thing , you could tell by the wear on the seats and carpet or buy the clutter making it impossible for any passenger to get in and I see many SUV and huge truck drivers alone on the roads .

[CRF450]

59. Not everyone driving an SUV drives like shit

Theirs bad drivers in all kinds of vehicles. I dont care much for SUV's either but hey, its their money, they can burn it on anything they want. I am getting a truck soon for my new job and being able to haul my dirtbike around when I want. I'd like to get a 05+ Tacoma 4 door 4x4, but their still too expensive for me, so I may find an 01-04 Dodge Dakota that would also be a 4 door 4x4 model. I know they get crummy gas milage but I'm not that concerned about it that much. If I was really concerned about mpg, I could get a 4 banger truck, but there way slow and underpowered to me.

[Catherine Vincent]

74. "Not everyone driving an SUV drives like shit"

That is true, but the ones that do drive the SUV and drives like that are more noticeable.

[nosmokes]

61. it oughta be a crime not to take care of your car

and keep it tuned, tires properly inflated, fluid levels up to mark, no vacumn leaks and no oil burning. if you're gonna drive a pollution machine then it should be incumbent upon you to make it as effecient as possible.

[slackmaster]

68. We have smog inspections every other year in California

You have to pass inspection to get your registration renewed.

So technically, driving a car that you haven't taken care of IS a crime.

[nosmokes]

69. yeah, the cal smog inspections are a joke.

they mostly check for particulates and make sure the catalytic converter is working, so sometimes to pass the inspection the car actually hasta be tuned down so that it's burning more gas and releasing more CO2 than before you went in. i used to argue this point all the time but a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat and a politician is in the pocket of the oil biz which makes more money when you hafta stop at the pump more often.

[slackmaster]

71. I disagree, it is very easy to fail the California smog check

they mostly check for particulates and make sure the catalytic converter is working

They definitely do that, plus they check levels of nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide, verify that the exhaust oxygen sensor is working, and that ALL of the required equipment including the (utterly useless in SoCal) intake pre-heater box, tube, and flapdoodle are present and functional. They also check idle speed, ignition timing, etc. irrespective of the impact of those on actual pollutant output.

That said, the system is a massive racket. The law requires 25% of vehicles to be sent to "test only" stations, which are not authorized to do any repairs, not even simple adjustments. If you just fail a bit, you can do whatever you want to get it working. But if you happen to fall into the "gross polluter" category you cannot do the repairs yourself - You have to go to a specially licensed repair faciltiy where you will get raped.

[maxsolomon]

70. for many drivers, SUVs represent an aesthetic choice that

exemplifies what is wrong with Murka.

why do you need a 4wd SUV when you put 22" spinning rims on it? to look like a bad ass when you drive to BK to stuff your fat face.

[Beaverhausen]

72. If American car companies would build more efficient cars, including SUVs

then they wouldn't be the enemy. The technology is there, it's the american companies who refuse to update and they keep building these gas guzzlers. Then, surprise, they lose money and lay off thousands of workers.

That is why I don't like SUVs. Plus people DO NOT know how to drive them!

[LSK]

73. Ford Escort 12 MPG, Explorer 21 MPG??????????

:wtf:

Do you have those reversed?????????

[Marie26]

76. It's more about what they symbolize

Intimidating, aggressive, dominating, obnoxious, they're rolling symbols of Bushco's America.

[Sparkly]

77. I just hate encountering them in city traffic and parking lots.

My 11-yr-old Honda Accord goes a long way on a tank of gas!!

[Orsino]

80. S is for sport.

Hence, recreational and unnecessary. There's a time and a place for such frivolous vehicular choices, and it's not rush hour on the freeway. Conspicuous consumption is a luxury that we should no longer be able to afford.

There are a few passable reasons to drive these monstrosities, but even these should cause one to reevaluate one's lifestyle.