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Idea - Make riot police wear sports-style numbered jerseys

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:42 PM
Original message
Idea - Make riot police wear sports-style numbered jerseys
Not my idea, but looks like a good one to me!

MAKE RIOT COPS WEAR FOOTIE STYLE NUMBERS

20th April 2009
By Josh Layton


CAMPAIGNERS are demanding riot cops have numbers on their uniforms like footballers to identify them.



The calls were made amid mounting claims of brutality at the London G20 rally, where officers hid shoulder ID.

Lawyers for the Camp for Climate Action condemned violent police tactics.

One cop seen lashing out at protestor Nicola Fisher, 35, outside the Bank of England had no badge number.

Neither had an officer seen hitting newspaper vendor Ian Tomlinson, 47, shortly before he died.

The CCA claimed they had been flooded with allegations of brutality, including a baton-charge of a peaceful protest camp.

Their report, being sent to MPs, said: The failure to wear identification should be treated as a serious disciplinary matter.

"It is vital that police officers in riot gear have their ID on their fronts and backs at all times in extra large font so it is clearly visible.

<more>

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/77520/Make-riot-co... /



Nice and big... so the video cameras can see them!
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, and this can be defended on a number of levels.
In any number of investigations, including those that might exonerate an officer of wrongdoing, identification can only be helpful.

I can think of no reason NOT to do this.

Any effort to resist it would be, IMO, an effort to help individuals avoid identification.

Nice one!
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good idea
Unfortunately totalitarians like the anonymity of featureless uniforms to make their actions harder to prosecute.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R
Great idea..
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. #5
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. YES! They certainly know all they want to about us; why shouldn't we be able to I.D. them?
Knowledge is power. A balance of power requires a balance of knowledge.

Actually, we should know a lot more about our gummint, since they supposedly work for us, than they know about us.
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. If they're bad cops........
.....they'll just wear a different number than their real one. And, no other cop will rat them out. They think they are above the rest of us. The vast majority of cops are good, but a few bad apples make them look bad. You would think they would be happy to rat them out.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. But mis-ID would stand out like the proverbial sore thumb
Most cops want to be perceived as honest, fair, and acting in the interest of public safety. A bad cop would be a LOT easier to ID with this method. It might be more difficult to make the initial identification, but it would still be a lot easier than things are today.

If there were a lot of bad cops on the force, it would arouse public anger and (ideally) cause some beneficial changes.

Plus, recorded visual evidence of bad police work would spare other cops having to rat out their colleagues.

There is safety in open information exchange. It is the idea of the Panopticon turned inside-out and controlled by those who would be seen.

--d!
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Any cop that won't rat out a bad cop is a bad cop him or herself
Lots of them know exactly who these officers were and, if any of them are any good, they should ALL be writing reports on them and sending them to internal affairs.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. But a duplicate number would be noticed
So would a missing one, by the unit commanders or squad leaders or whatever command structure they use.

And thw squad leaders would be questioned about why they let an unknown number into the ranks.



Of course, this all breaks down if the riot cops get scattered or whatever, but there should be enough cameras floating around to track down movements of officers during post-riot analysis of the police response.
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. It wouldn't deter them
They are smart enough to get around that. Put a damned GPS transponder in their badge. That way they would know which officers were where at all times. A cop is not going anywhere without their badge. They look at that badge as their ticket to do what they want to whomever they want, when they want. This would also assist in helping them track officers when they are persuing a suspect on foot. There are probably a hundred other scenarios in which it would assist them, as well!
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Identify everyone
A 4-digit number is good for 10,000 IDs, and 4 characters yield 1,679,616 unique IDs. Protesters could get training in remembering 4-digit or 4-character numbers/codes.

Clearly visible ID doesn't just allow demonstrators to identify police misconduct, it also allows better coordination by the commanders and safety personnel (e.g., first aid responders).

The demonstrators could do the same thing in a show of good faith. A coordinated ID effort would make it extremely difficult to press charges of riot successfully -- why would anyone planning a riot want their people to self-identify? Actual rioters do things differently than civil protesters anyway.

It may be an idea worth considering.

--d!
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suede1 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. I hope this goes to the main page. It's an idea who's time has come.
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kas125 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. At the RNC, when we asked one where his name tag was,
he said, "Oh, it must have fell off" and laughed.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. YES! Not just on riot gear, but on their regular uniforms.
Edited on Mon Apr-20-09 11:00 PM by backscatter712
In other words, even if the camera is a crappy low-res black and white model, recording from a distance, it should be able to pick up the number and out Officer Asshole's identity.

When a cop is on the job, he should not be able to conceal his identity.

You want police enforcement powers (aka legal permission to beat the hell out of people and ruin their lives), you give up privacy.

You can have your privacy back after you end your shift, go off the clock and go home. But you check it at the door when you come in for work.

Make the cops wear big numbers on their riot gear and regular uniforms like football players, and have the roster mapping numbers to names publicly available on a website.

Any time one of them acts up, they get videotaped and broadcast on Youtube, and their number is pulled off the website so we know the name of the guilty party.

Sorry, but I do not trust police.

I don't trust them at all. I've seen too much flagrant destructive misconduct.

Sure many, maybe most of them are decent, but there are enough bad ones, and I have no way of telling them apart, so I have treat them all like they're bad.

It's a sad fact in this society. I have to treat all police officers as if they like to hurt people for fun, because a few of them do.

If police officers reading this don't like that fact, then POLICE YOUR OWN! No more blue walls of silence. No more ostracizing whistle-blowers. You take your fellow precinct psychopaths, and you throw them under the bus. That would be a good start.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. They're already supposed to
All coppers in the UK wear a three or four digit number on their shoulder which is unique to them. The problem is that at the G20 mess, quite a few officers removed them.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Removing your number should result in losing your badge!
I'm sorry, but I don't believe the "I lost my number" excuses. There's no excuse for that crap.

And I'm for not just a tiny badge number on a shoulder patch which you're struggling to make out as the pig's Rodney-Kinging you.

I'm talking

BIG FOOTBALL JERSEY NUMBERS

that can be read from a hundred yards away. On the fronts and backs of the shirts or vests or jackets, on the helmets, and on riot shields.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
15. Apsitively, Krispy!
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 08:23 AM by Dogtown
That was the original concept behind "badge numbers"; no reason it couldn't be painted on their riot armor & shields, large enough to be read during a confrontation.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sounds good to me
For future reference, the Star is an extreme-left tabloid but I think they're right on this one. Large numbers (at least 4") on teh front and back of their jackets and maybe smaller ones on the helmets too, just to be sure.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. This sounds like a good idea.
Thanks for the thread, krispos.
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hugo_from_TN Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Make the protestors wear them too!
Especially the masked ones that show up to smash windows and incite violence.
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