Harley, You’re Not Getting Any Younger

[DainBramaged]

SPUCK BENNETT’S dealership just outside Ocean City, Md., is cluttered with 65 shiny Harley-Davidson motorcycles, including the chrome Sportster and the sleek V-Rod. Last year, Mr. Bennett, 79, sold 200 bikes, down from 280 the year before. This year, sales have slowed to a crawl.

“I haven’t seen anything like this in the 33 years I’ve owned a dealership,” he says. “We’re just trying to survive.” He has cut expenses by trimming hours and overtime, and laid off 7 of his 49 employees.

After riding high for two decades, the company that makes the hulky bikes that devoted riders affectionately call Hogs is sputtering. Harley’s core customers are graying baby boomers, whose savings, in many cases, have gone up in smoke in the market downturn. Few are in the mood to shell out up to $20,000 or more for something that is basically a big toy, and the company, in turn, has not captured much of the younger market.

And though Harley’s woes pale in comparison to what the automakers face — Harley’s revenue dipped 2 percent last year while Detroit was crashing — overproduction and loose lending practices have burdened the company’s finances.

In a pattern similar to that of the housing bust, Harley goosed sales by luring many buyers with no-money-down loans. A subsidiary created about 15 years ago, Harley-Davidson Financial Services, made those loans and packaged them into securities to sell to investors. As the credit market skidded, so did this subsidiary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/business/economy/22harley.html?_r=1

[glowing]

1. The reason they haven't been able to catch the younger gen. is because

the younger generation doesn't have an extra $20,000.00 sitting around for a Harley. Too much debt from schools and the cost of living to even do anything other than hope one day for the ability to own a toy.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Read that earlier and realized...

yes-- all the Harley riders I see out there are greybeards. The kids are riding Kawasaki, Yamaha, etc. superbikes that are lighter, cheaper, faster, handle better, and are seen winning races and doing stunts.

Whaddaya get for your twenty grand from H-D besides a 30 heavy year-old bike with a loud exhaust and hemmorhoids from the vibration?

[DainBramaged]

6. One word, Buell

but then again, the kids were brought up by parents who though buying Japanese was OK, so why not gravitate to Foreign crap.

http://www.buell.com/en_us/bikes/sportbike/1125R/

"loud exhaust and hemmorhoids"


I guess you've never ridden a Harley before. :eyes:

[Threedifferentones]

56. Wow, a xenophobic DUer

You capitalize the word foreign? Hate to break it to ya, but there is a reason younger, more tech savvy people prefer Japanese technology, while old, clueless fogies stick to their traditions: Japanese companies have been making better stuff at more reasonable prices!

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rppper]

80. buell= sportster motor on a different frame

Same push rod, air cooled dinosaur that the sportster is, just a different layout. They are sooo competitive in the sport bike market that they only race other buells. Harley doesnt want you to see their sport bikes getting their asses handed to them by a bike with 1/2 the engine displacement. I used to live for knuckle-heads(not the harley motor) on buells to try to beat my 20+ year old $750.00 basket case v65 sabre...i'd give them a few seconds on the take-off too....4 seconds later they were turning around after reading my plates.....

I'll give buells this much...they are very comfortable sport bikes to ride. But they're stuck with an engine design that dates back 30 some odd years. Even the new v-rod motor was designed by porsche, not HD. If they ever drop that v-rod motor into a buell it might actually hang with the japanese and italian bikes.

[cobalt1999]

7. It's the difference between a sports car and a cruising car

Sure a sports car might be lighter, cheaper, and faster. However, would you rather spend hour and hour all day cruising the country in a Corvette or a Mercedes sedan?

The same goes for motorcycles.

[alfredo]

41. For years I rode a 250 Ducati MkIII. It was a bare bones road bike.

My first ride on a big road riding BMW was a revelation. The Ducati was made to wear out pegs on hairpins, the Beemer was for riding in style. The one lung Ducati would beat you to death, the BMW was like an easy chair.

[Owl]

44. Nice Beemer!

[alfredo]

47. I could never afford one, but I had friends who'd let me take it for

a spin. The Ducati was quick. It was 30 Hp and only weighed 250 lbs. It wasn't hard to pull the front wheel off the ground. It was fun, but not good for the long haul.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. The beemer is my dream bike

Earles forks - yeah baby.

[alfredo]

51. The real heavy duty touring was done on BMW's because they could

accommodate the varying standards of gasoline world wide.

[Winterblues]

64. You can't possibly be comparing a Harley to a Mercedes

Maybe a BMW could be so compared but a Harley is nothing more than a Chevy in the car world. Most Japanese Bikes are better quality and half the price. If you notice at almost any bike show you will see Harleys with oil rags under them to catch the drips and you never see that with a Honda or Yamaha or BMW. It is all the mystique and really has nothing to do with quality or smoothness of ride.

[DainBramaged]

66. Again, misinformed, why not go to Harley's website

instead of spewing shit you know nothing about. And something tells me you don't ride, or have never ridden, anything but a bicycle.

[Winterblues]

69. Something tells me you don't know nearly as much as you think you do

I have been riding for over fifty years but I no longer own any Harleys nor will I ever again, probably. They are not the machine you seem to think they are.

[DainBramaged]

71. You don't know as much as you think you do

I will not own ANYTHING with wheels made by the Germans, Japanese, Koreans, Italians, British, or Scandinavians And I don't give a shit what you think. My choice. My first bike in the sixties (a mistake) was a Triumph 650. My last bike was a new '93 Sportster 1200 with over 63,000 miles I had to give up after my last brain tumor and subsequent loss of eyesight in my right eye. I had to replace some of the gaskets ONCE in 14 years. It was a hard ride, zero sophistication, but I didn't buy it for flash and buzz.

You Rice lovers can try to convince us till you are blue in the face, but we ride Harley's, period.

Go bother someone else.

[Obamanaut]

76. Prior to my retirement from USN, I rode motorcycles exclusively back

and forth to the base when we weren't deployed, because we couldn't afford two cars. For ten months during this period it was 105 miles one way, for the remainder of the time the ride to the other base was 85 miles one way. Period of time covered from '83 to '88. This five year period I rode an inline 4 KZ550 Kawasaki, traded it for an inline 4 KZ750 Kawasaki at 65,000 miles, and traded the 750 at about 60,000 miles for a KZ1100 kawasaki with windjammer fairing, saddlebags, and trunk. The KZ I kept until 1990, when I traded it to a guy for a rifle. He is still riding it, but removed all the Windjammer fiberglass stuff.

Tires, chains (the 1100 was my first shaft drive), spark plugs, oil changes (every 2,000 miles). Did not have to remove any rice husks, didn't do any heavy maintenance, never let me down on those many many 850 - 1000 mile weeks.

For the record, I've never had a problem with a Harley rider (until today), they've all been pleasant people. I just cannot imagine the same level of reliability that I have personally experienced in Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, and now Suzuki.

[cobalt1999]

79. There are many old Harley's still running around out there.

Granted, the one's from the 1970's & 80's weren't the best, but I'd put the modern ones up against any import for reliability.

One factor is they are still air cooled which means there are no pumps, radiators, hoses, clamps, anti-freeze, or coolant to go wrong. It's nice to know when you are out cruising far from home and there are no shops around should a hose split.

[jmowreader]

85. The Harley "Revolution" engine (the V-rod engine) is liquid cooled

[cobalt1999]

94. Yep, first one.

The Air cooled vs. Liquid cooled debate is ongoing.

Liquid cooled is better for performance bikes like the sport-bikes and V-rod. For Cruising and reliability, it's hard to beat air cooled though. There is a reason piston aircraft are air cooled, you don't want a problem at altitude. Reliability wins over performance for aircraft and cruising bikes.

[Enthusiast]

99. Actually some of the highest performance

piston aircraft in history were liquid cooled and developed in WWII. Ever hear of the P-51 Mustang? How about the Spitfire? Mezzerschmitt? Liquid cooled cruisers are certainly more reliable than air cooled ones.

[cobalt1999]

104. Yes for performance, No for reliability

For pure performance, you can't beat a liquid cooled engine. However, with liquid cooling comes a whole new set of parts and systems. Simple engineering. The more parts and systems, the more points of failure.

As for the WWII aircraft, it's worth noting that the liquid-cooled reciprocating aircraft engine disappeared abruptly with the end of WWII while the, air-cooled reciprocating aircraft engine is with us still. Big radials powered the postwar prop airliners such as the Constellation, Stratocruiser, DC-6 and DC-7 and boxer engines are found in practically all of today's general aviation aircraft. The liquid-cooled reciprocating aircraft engine is one bit of WWII-era technology that had a very short lifespan.

Many P-51's & Spitfires were lost just because a bullet hit the cooling system. The liquid-cooled aircraft engine was perfected in the WWII era and did not survive it because it was complex, unreliable and vulnerable compared to the air-cooled aircraft engine.

Incidentally, during WWII, Lockheed, recognizing the problems inherent in the liquid-cooled engine, proposed re-equipping the P-38 with R-2800s.

[Enthusiast]

105. But just as with modern day automobiles

the cooling system on motorcycles is not a source reliability issues unless it is completely ignored. I doubt we would want to return our cars to the days of air cooling. For engine longevity liquid cooling is superior to air cooling. There is no question about this.

[rppper]

81. v-rod=engine by porsche

that would make it german.....

[Obamanaut]

78. Hey, I ride a bicycle - a long wheel base recumbent. Nice ride. nt

[ForrestGump]

74. Explain the Gold Wing, then, for one.

The Honda Gold Wing rides like one of those old-time Cadillacs...by comparison, the smoothest Harley is a buzzy, kidney-jarring ordeal.

And my brother rides a Moto Guzzi California, an Italian refinement of the kind of thing that Harley has long represented. It's yet another 'foreign' bike that out-Harleys a Harley.

There're many more examples, and I know a bunch of old-time Harley dudes who both bemoan what they see as HD's 'betrayal' of the faithful old-timers (including those who stuck through the '70s with them) and have nothing but contempt for the new breed of Harley owners...these types have switched to better-designed, better-engineered, cheaper Japanese cruisers, like the Valkyrie.

I'm not into cruisers of any kind, and never have been (sport-tourers for me), but my brother's Italian Stallion is quite a nice piece of work. I'd choose pasta and rice over the alternative any day.

[cherokeeprogressive]

91. Stupid is as Stupid Thinks, I guess.

My 06 Road King is ANYTHING but a kidney-jarring ordeal. It doesn't leak a drop of oil. And, your brother's Guzzi's UGLY.

[ForrestGump]

96. That's not my brother's

Not even the same model. His looks quite different and is a much more recent vintage (2003).

I just find it ironic that a Harley owner could accuse any other motorcycle of being ugly.

A few too many of the riders are ugly, too...pigs on hogs.

[cobalt1999]

93. LOL

A modern Harley Electra Glide or Road King is twice the bike that Moto Guzzi is. Reliability, comfort, & looks, a modern Harley wins hands down.




I'm not into denigrating other bikes, but to say a modern Harley is a "kidney jarring ordeal" is just laughable. Go to one of the major bike events in the country and demo ride one, read some reviews from online motorcycle forums, something, ANYTHING, but get yourself out of the 1980's!

[cloudbase]

100. Your brother is a man of impeccable taste.

I've got two Guzzis, an '07 B1100 and an '84 V65SP.

[gratuitous]

17. Yeah, I used to put playing cards in my bike spokes

But somewhere along the line, it just seemed . . . I don't know, childish, and loud engine noise was no longer quite such a thrill. I think I had just turned eight.

[redqueen]

55. Loud pipes save lives.

Drivers often don't see bikers.

[guitar man]

70. exactly

And by the time you reach for the horn it's often too late. Too many people driving around with a cell phone shoved in their ear and not paying attention.

[cherokeeprogressive]

90. The people you have to tell that to are the people that riders like me have to be on the lookout for

[cloudbase]

101. If loud pipes saved lives,

there would be an insurance discount for them.

[ForrestGump]

77. Did your handlebars have leather tassles, too?

[Obamanaut]

25. I have a 1500cc Suzuki cruiser (C90T) now, before that a Honda

VTX 1300, before that a string of Hondas and kawasakis all the way back to my first in 1961, a Ducati. Somewhere in there was a 650 Triumph.

I like the idea of having a bike I can ride rather than one I get to work on. Traded the VTX in with 45,000 miles - one multi-function switch, normal servicing, tires - nothing else. The Suzuki-just got new tires, have had it for two years.

All cruisers, no crotch rockets, no loud pipes, no dirt bikes, no big repair bills.

[DainBramaged]

29. So without any Harley experience you claim they aren't reliable?

Americaphobia, why our manufacturing is down the toilet. Stick to your rice, this is about Harley's.

[Obamanaut]

32. My experience is with Harley owners/riders who are not riding

because their ride is in the shop, or who can't go on the weekend ride because their ride is broken in the garage. I have no personal experience with pneumonia, but I know I don't want it. I have no personal experience with lots of stuff that I know I don't want; hemorrhoids, arthritis, misuse of the apostrophe.

How many manufacturers who are producing overpriced items are now having financial grief? It's like a pattern.

Think I'll go for a leisurely ride today - how about you.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomWV]

35. True of old, but not now

Lack of reliability and dripping oil is what kept me away from them for years. Trust me, they have changed. It is pretty amazing actually. I've put almost 40,000 miles on my '02 Harley so far and it has never so much as hiccuped. It has never leaked a drop of any fluid, and other than due to modifications I initiated it has never been out of commission. It is a well received change from yesteryear, I can assure you.

There's this too. A number of riders that are our friends are riding older bikes. In fact I'm doing a paint job on the tins of a '37 flathead 45 that a friend of mine is rebuilding for the road right now. I see a lot of bikes from the old AMF days, which were really Harley's lowpoint, on the road and of course they break down all the time. The real old ones run pretty reliability but they leak like burlap sacks. If its older bikes that turn you on its probably the British bikes that are really the least reliable. Lucas electrics were probably the worst ever made (from BSA to Jaguar just ask any prior owner) and they leaked as bad as Harleys, just harder to get parts for.

[Obamanaut]

36. In about 1964 I had a Triumph Bonneville (well used when I

got it.) I only had it a few months before it died, but I never had to change the oil - just kept adding - and parked in a different spot every night.

[EnviroBat]

39. I have an 07 Softail

I love that bike. Fuel injected, 96 Cubic inch. Go out to the garage during the coldest time of the winter and it fires on the third crank. To me, it's the ultimate "motorcycling" experience. Torque down country roads, looking at the world around you. Nothing like it. A bike that you can actually "feel" while you ride it. I've owned a VTX, and the ride was so yawn inducing that it became a chore to push it out of the garage on weekends... Harley's are expensive, and they're not for everyone, but I'd given up on riding until I got mine...

[ThomWV]

86. Hard to explain, isn't it?

When I say 'you either get it or you don't' I don't mean it in any disparaging way. These bikes are different, they are a thing all onto them self. I have been riding for over 45 years and hadn't had a Harley since I was in my 20's. Then I saw a softail Deuce and the moment I sat on one I knew it was a bike I had to have. Mine's a counterbalanced 88, injected as is yours. How can you describe it? Hard to say, but they certainly are the most wonderful thing in the world to ride.

[C......N......C]

87. Even siting still you can hear the rumble.

[SidDithers]

43. "Misuse of the apostrophe"!!!...

:rofl:

That was a thing of beauty.

Sid

[okieinpain]

33. I think I saw somewhere that harley builds in the vibration so the

older folks can relate back to the days when harley built crap.

[cherokeeprogressive]

92. I bet you read The Onion. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

89. My '06 Road King is like riding a couch. I've done the cafe thing.

Hemmorhoids from the vibration? LOL. Not. Harley ain't the only V-Twin out there, including what drives the crotch-rockets. You sound like Harley riders are old folks riding their first motorcycles. I had a 750 Ninja in the '90's and a Yamaha RD 400 in the 80's. The Ninja was my primary source of transportation. Yeah, they were fast, nimble, sounded real neat, and cost a lot less than the Harley. But you know what? Riding them from L.A. to San Diego was like doing push-ups for two hours with bees droning inside of your full-face helmet.

Since I've had the Harley though, my Ms. and I have taken it from So. Cal. to just south of the Canadian border in Idaho, and from So. Cal. to San Antonio, TX. I once covered 620 miles in one day AND stopped for the night before dark. Not to mention that the only fault the bike has ever displayed was a rear blowout (that's a story in itself, getting a 750 lb bike with gear and two people stopped on a blown rear tire from 80mph). The Harley dealer came, picked up us and the bike, fixed the tire, checked the oil, washed her, and put us back on the road in about two hours. Your local Kawasaki dealer won't do that for you. If, though, you tell the Harley dealer that you're traveling and have a problem? You become their first priority.

I no longer need to go fast. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt AND skipped the road rash. I'm still the best rider I know. Not the fastest, just the best. Got rid of the cafe bike after 15,000 miles without kissing the pavement. Not a lot of cafe riders can say that. Now I cruise, smell the roses, see the sights, and have a conversation with my passenger while I'm doing it. She leans against the backrest and takes awesome pictures with an SLR camera.

Try THAT on a rice-burner. You also don't see cafe bike riders standing around admiring each other's bikes. That's because other than color, you can't tell one from the other. Oh, and the loud exhaust thing? BWAHHAHAAHAAHHA. I can hear a most cafe bikes coming half a mile away. Lastly, you forgot to include in your first paragraph that the cafe riders ("kids" as you put it) are dying in larger numbers consistently.

[Marr]

3. Harley's got to be hurting. I like cruisers, but I went with a Triumph.

It was a quarter the price of a Harley, and I think they look better, too.

[onethatcares]

88. how do you like it? I rode a 63 Bonneville for a long time

number DU 13808. Quit when I had my fifth accident in a year due to stupid blind assholes that pull out in front of you, turn left without signals, stop without a clue, and just don't see ya.

The other day I was next to a newer Triumph and thought, "wow, that's not your old Bonny". What are you riding and how is it a crotchrocket or a cruiser?

My wife says, no mas, I say , ahhhhhh, who knows.


Peace

[Enthusiast]

4. What were they thinking when

they bought MV Augusta? Again, too high priced, and really, other than MV's heritage, not any better than Japan's best sportbikes.

I think years ago HD should have used some of their huge profits to design a Japanese type four cylinder sportbike. Of course Harley's early efforts would have lagged far behind but by now their product would be competitive and marketable. Of course they would still have to make traditional models.

[ThomWV]

5. Last sunday when I was at the local Stealer the place was packed

I stopped by the local Harley stealer last sunday to order a part for my Deuce (FXSTD/I) and was suprised to see that the place was packed. I also noticed that their inventory was way way up. Over the winter they were down to about 20 or so bikes on display. Last week they were back up to their usual 50 or so. Also, the parking lot was about half full, which is about what it would have been on a typical sunday afternoon a year ago.

By the way - the only motorcycle on earth worth riding is a Harley Davidson. You either get it or you don't.

[TahitiNut]

9. Here's my grandmother posing on my grandfather's 1916 Harley. (On Belle Isle in Detroit)

If it weren't for Harley Davidson, I probably wouldn't have been born. :evilgrin:

[Toucano]

31. I wonder what the cost of that bike was?

I bet it wasn't the equivalent of 20 grand.

Could that be part of Harley's problem? They upscaled too much?

Cadillac is not the Cadillac of cars anymore and Curtis Mathis is long gone.

Being the most expensive is pasé, no?

[TahitiNut]

53. Knowing my grandparents were Norwegian immigrants, in their late teens at that time ...

... and without the formal education or family wealth to do other than skilled (or semi-skilled) labor, I can't believe that Harley cost more than about $2,000 in today's dollars. Their passage to the U.S. was third class. Their living circumstances were somewhat communal, staying with family and friends and catching work where they could. At the time of this photo, my grandfather had been in the U.S. for perhaps 2-3 years and was living with his brother who was a carpenter. Neither had more than a 4th grade education and were farm boys in Norway. My grandmother was a "city girl" from Kristiana (today called Oslo) and visiting her cousin. The Norwegian 'community' was close-knit, of course, and the Sons of Norway was the social organization.

[8 track mind]

45. I wonder where the bike is today..... n/t

[ForrestGump]

75. It's the prototype for

the current line of Harleys.

[8 track mind]

82. .....

:rofl:

[Dr.Phool]

19. Two of my neughbors bought new Hogs a couple of months ago.

The dealer in New Port Richey, FL told them last year was his best ever.

Last week, I got a mailer from Orlando Harley-Davidson. I've never seen a Harley ad with prices listed. These were- and they were way low. A new Softail for $12k?

I've been thinking about getting a new one for a while, but my '97 just keeps chugging along. I've owned Hawgs since the early '70's, including a couple of Panheads.

At my Mom's memorial service last year, they had a photo screen display. One was a picture of 5 year old me and her sitting on my Dad's new '57 Pan.

[Enthusiast]

30. This attitude is exactly why I

refuse to own a Harley Davidson.

"By the way - the only motorcycle on earth worth riding is a Harley Davidson. You either get it or you don't."

I love motorcycles. You are saying if someone prefers a bike other than a HD they are mentally deficient in some way? I celebrate the differences in motorcycles. I don't have to embrace the herd mentality. Guys like you, making remarks like you do, and smashing Japanese bikes with sledge hammers have turned me against Harley Davidson. I would stop riding rather than buy a Harley.

[cobalt1999]

37. You love motorcycles, yet would rather give it up than ride a American UNION built bike?

Wow.

If other people can sway your actions for or against something to that degree, you really need to look in the mirror and try to be your own man. Ride 'em, don't ride 'em, if you like & appreciate them based on the bike, but to make your decision based on others attitudes is sad.

You shouldn't let others influence you and saying things like "guys like you have turned me against H-D", shows you are easily influenced.

[DainBramaged]

68. Notice the anti-Union, anti-AMERICAN crowd has descended on this thread

my ignore switch has surgical precision, and I have NO patience for these asshole, none. They put down Union products, I have no desire to discus what color their shit is.

And when you DON'T bow to them, they whine like little babies to the mods, wahhhhh I was insulted.

[ThomWV]

38. "mentally deficient in some way" Hmmm? Well, maybe.

I never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it maybe you're on to something.

Bwahahahahahah

Ride whatever you like. You think I care? All I'm saying is that the bikes are one hell of a lot nicer these days than they used to be and way way better built. They are not the rocket ships coming out of Japan but you can actually ride one for more than 100 miles at a time with some degree of comfort. They will cruise at highway speeds all day long. The quality of fit and finish - particularly finish - is unparalleled.

Oh, did I mention resale value?

[Enthusiast]

95. Been union all my life.

But I won't buy a product that I don't want just because it is union.

Yup, Harleys are better than ever. But I remember when they were horrible. And because of competition from the Japanese they were forced to improve. But when you hear someone make a remark that the ONLY motorcycle worth riding is a Harley Davidson you know THAT person doesn't know shit about motorcycles. Again, I will never own one because of the ignorance and herd mentality that surrounds the brand. I actually like the product, I just don't like the owners.

[ThomWV]

97. Talk about not knowing shit about motorcycles

The Japanese invasion really began with the importation of the K1 Honda in late 1969. The 750/4 was the first 'big bike' that got here from Japan but it certainly wasn't the first fast one to show up here, the Kawasaki 500 (the old ones with the white tanks, not the later blue tank ones) were the first fast japanese bike to hit our shores. Now your knownothing butt might think that these fine bikes (not really, the Kaw had nearly no brakes and a rather flexible frame that made handling interesting) are what drove Harley to improve but in truth it was after the introduction of these bikes that AMF bought Harley and the products really went bad. It was not until years later when the company was bought back that the bikes improved to their current quality level.

You, well, I'm glad you've been union all your life. I haven't. Didn't get my first union job until 1966 - a job I rode to daily on an old BSA 500 single.

[Enthusiast]

98. I know all about the Kawasaki 2 strokes.

What did I say that makes you say I am a "know nothing butt"? Actually I am very knowlegable about motorcycle history including Harley Davidson. Your post didn't tell me a thing I didn't know. For example, I know the Kawasaki road burners were poor handlers. But HD was in dire need of improvement even after the company was bought back. This is why they designed the Evolution and later the Twin Cam engines.

Some people really just don't get into cruiser type motorcycles. Should they buy one anyway just to please HD?

Maybe you should consider the possibility that when you insult another person's choice in motorcycles that it does nothing for the image of Harley Davidson and their owners. Truth is, if I had not run into a number of snobbish asshole Harley Riders over the many years I would probably own one by now. But, now, no fucking way.

[ForrestGump]

102. You can't have ridden one of those '70s Kawasaki triples, though. No way.

Everyone who got on one of those died!

And then there was the splendid K1 900, that redefined it all but that (sadly) continued the tradition of Kwackas having their designers coax out phenomenal performance but forget to add brakes and the means for taking a curve.

They got better, though. And that 900 still lives in memory as a pinnacle, of sorts, even if it was all FULL-OUT, RAW, UNBRIDLED POWER!!!!

Sorry about that.

I got my Ninja because I was captivated by the original models back in the early- to mid-'80s but also because it was the perfect match for me -- my particular model is fast beyond all reason, a good match for my height, and basically a sport-tourer rather than solely a flat-along-the-tank sport bike. I've never had any interest in cruisers, at all (the previous two bikes I owned were 'standard' types), and if I did suddenly decide that cruisers were for me I would likely buy Honda, or one of the other Japanese marques, because of economy on the initial pricetag, performance, and build quality and reliability. Harleys today are sold primarily as a prepackaged image that's been aggressively marketed and, although I can appreciate the chrome that smothers some of them, they offer someone like me absolutely nothing and just plain do not make sense.

[Owl]

103. I bought a new Kawasaki 2-stroke triple in 1973. Little power at low revs, but when the tach hit

mid-range the handlebars tried to pull your arms out of their sockets!

By todays standards they were indeed crude bikes, but in their day they were a lot of fun.

[cobalt1999]

8. Wait a minute. An American company using union workers made $654.7 million in profit last year.

While every other American automotive company that was outsourcing to other countries was in the hole for billions. You'd think that would be a point.

All their bikes aren't $20-30K either, the new 883 Iron is only about $7K

[guitar man]

10. Exactly

The Sportster is one of the best bang-for-the buck values in motorcycling. The Evolution Sportster is one of the most reliable motorcycles on the planet. I ride a '99 model and I get more miles per dollar expended than any motorcycle I have ever owned, American, Metric or British. The fuel mileage is fantastic. ;)

(edit to add pic)

[cobalt1999]

11. Nice bike

The Sportster is a great bike. Fast and nimble for around town, and throw a couple of saddlebags over it and it'll take you across the country.

I agree, it's probably the most "bang for the buck" reliable motorcycle on the market today.

[guitar man]

12. Thanks

I run 100 mile legs between Oklahoma City and Tulsa a couple of times a week and it's plenty comfy for my 6 foot frame. The forward controls (which came standard on the custom) and touring saddle it has on it make it really nice.

[Dr.Phool]

20. I'll stick to Hawgs.

I had a new Sportster back in '76, and the thing would literally shake itself apart. But, back then, they were made by a bowling ball manufacturer. I know they're better now, but....

I kept it for a year, and bought a first-ever Low Rider.

[guitar man]

21. LOL

I used to joke that I should drag a magnet behind my '77 Sporty to catch parts as they fell off!

The Evo Sportster is a whole different beast though, they have really made a nice reliable machine out if them

[cobalt1999]

23. Believe it or not, some people complained when Harley smoothed out the Sportsters

The engines now are all fuel injected, rubber mounted, and are really sweet bikes, but some people thought Sportsters should rattle your fillings.

Can't please everyone.

[guitar man]

26. From Ironhead to EVO

The jump from the Ironheads to Evo in the Sportster was the first big "smooth out" , especially when they went to the 5 speed tranny. The old Ironheads I had were inherently a lot rougher than the '99 solid mount Sporty I ride now. Coupled with the higher RPM the old ones ran at highway speeds in 4th gear it made for a truly brutal ride by today's standards, especially if you had done any performance mods to them at all.

Last fall, I got to ride a '72 900 Sporty, My '99 883 and an '06 883 all in the same day. I noticed a much bigger difference in smoothness between the '72 and the '99 than I did the '99 and '06. The old '72 was a blast to ride but it sure shook like a wet dog. :P

[snooper2]

63. I rode my buddies new Sportster 883 Custom at work...

I wasn't too impressed, handled pretty good but the seat position and bars are not to my liking....I'd probably have to get a superglide but they are out of my price range...


Probably going to get the new Star 950...Yamaha has been great to me over the years, never any troubles. My 03 V-Star is still running strong and looks like new ( except for rust that just started showing on a spring that is part of the rear brake linkage :( )

[guitar man]

73. you know

I rode one of the new 883c models and I didn't like the bars either. I like the bars and the seat on my '99 much better. It already had a touring saddle on it when I bought it, so I don't know what the stock one was like, but man, I sure like the way it is set up now. Another thing I didn't like about the new Sportster was the weight, they're about 60-70 lb heavier than the pre-04 sportsters. A lot of people like the heavier weight for the ride, but hell, if I was into all that, I'd just get a big twin. I like the way my little "shaker" handles.

[EnviroBat]

40. Here's my pride and joy...

[ThomWV]

13. Coincidence? Our mailcarrier just stopped by beaming - she bought hereself a Sporty

She stopped at the house and was just beaming. She and her husband were riding past a dealership over the weekend when she saw the '05 Sporty in the showroom. They turned and went back. She told us she sat on it, looked at the salesmand and her husband, and sais "Its mine".

I am so happy for her. She has been wanting one for so long.

[DainBramaged]

14. Don't ya love that!

If after gamma knife on my bramaged dain my eyesight comes back in my right eye, (there's still a mass sitting on top of my optic nerve) I'm riding again. But I think I want an old school knuckle head this time with a kick starter and hand shifter. Like this.

[cobalt1999]

15. My father had one of those in High School

He was 6'1" but thin as a rail. He said he didn't have the weight to kick start it, so he'd hold the handlebars and back the of the seat and PULL himself down.

He sold it when his girlfriends father wouldn't let her go with him on it.

[DainBramaged]

16. One of my buddies at work here has one, and he's had it for 20 years

and if it's above freezing, he rides it, hard core all the way. :hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. My niece had the gamma knife thing

The recovery process takes several weeks. Good luck.

[DainBramaged]

72. It is not something I am looking forward to

they fuck up, I won't be posting here any more (some will cheer).

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. No one will cheer.

But they won't fuck up, you'll be back as ornery as ever. :hi:

[Ikonoklast]

18. Demographics are not friendly to H-D.

They need to produce a product that the younger generation riders want to buy, or they will soon run out of customers as the grey-beards die off.

[DainBramaged]

22. Buell, GREAT bikes, great handling Street Fighters

[tekisui]

24. That is my first name, I thought you were calling me out!

And, I'm not getting any younger.:P

[mitchum]

27. Outlaws, Ltd.

[DainBramaged]

28. Nice

http://www.outlawsmc.com/ ?

[Dr.Phool]

42. They've got a website?

Things have changed. I remember partying with them back in the '70s.

Wild times.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. And you can buy their stuff on Ebay.

They take pay pal.

[Ganja Ninja]

46. I wonder how companies like Orange County Choppers are doing nowadays.

I expect their customer base has pretty much dried up too.

[DainBramaged]

49. Why not call them and ask?

845-522-5200

[Rider Haggard]

50. I love the Harley but can't afford even the used ones I see and that's wyy I'm looking at this

2005 Suzuki Boulevard C50 800. It has 1749 miles on it and is selling at $3500.

[guitar man]

57. $3500 will get you a decent used Sportster

I see 883 Sportys for around $3500-4000 all the time. :thumbsup:

[Rider Haggard]

58. I wish I could find one.

http://www.hogs4sale.com/Inventory_XL_SportsterP1.htm

And in the area I live in it seems as you can't even look at one for under 7K. Much the less with under 2K miles and only 4 years old.

[guitar man]

59. yeah, you may have to take a trip

you can't always find one around home for sure, I was about to go from Oklahoma out to Nevada and buy one I found until one popped up at a local dealer that I liked.

edit to add link:

'01 with 16k miles, $3750

http://www.motorcyclescan.com/2001_harley_davidson_sportster_883_clean_title_can_finance-o162808-en.html

[Rider Haggard]

60. I'm on the other side of the world.

about 2000 miles away. Actually, I'm having to travel 200 miles just for the Suzuki if I end up with it.

Harleys are revered machines in this part of the world :)

[guitar man]

61. my bad

I thought that one was in Texas.


How about Hawkinsville Ga?

http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/1997-HARLEY-DAVIDSON-SPORTSTER-XL-1200-94814793


http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/1991-HARLEY-DAVIDSON-SPORTSTER-1200-XL-94786276

[8 track mind]

62. Harleys suck...

at motocross, desert racing and enduro (made you look :rofl: !!!) I do all my riding at high rates of speed on dirt roads and trails. Fortunately, there is an American company to satisfy those of you out there that desire twisting a grip in the dirt.

www.atkusa.com


Here is the one i drool over: http://www.atkusa.com/documents/2008ATK450%20Enduro.pdf

I got the chance to ride one of these several years ago and i was very very very impressed. Excellent handling, super strong motor, loved it!

The Harley i want is something i probably couldn't afford. I want a fully race prepped, twin carb'ed XR750R

[MadHound]

67. Harley is like any other vehicle, American made or foreign

It fulfills the needs of some people, it doesn't fulfill the needs of others. If a Harley doesn't work for you, don't get one. If it does work for you, then by all means, get one.

For me, a Harley doesn't work, so I got a Bajaj scooter instead.

[C......N......C]

84. Harley had a chance and blew it.

They took all their truck loads of windfall money and made some great dealerships like Smitty's of Moundsville W VA disappear. Smitty's was a dealership at the fork of a Y in the road. One side was a story higher than the other side. I guess it used to be an old gas station. It opened over fifty years ago. Any respect for nostalgia ? No. Took the dealership away and closed it. Like all the other old classic dealerships gone and replaced with cute little boutiques. They sold millions of dollars of accessories made in China to us. But did they invest any money into real research and development of the hogs that made them famous? No . They tried to cut into the Rice Rocket market to get more money. They could have developed the Big Twins into world class cruisers. The Road kings have the wrong rake to make them ultimate cruisers. Fix ? No. Brakes squeal. Fix? No. By the way I have always had Harley's and did my own customizing. You don't need a Harley dealership to have harley bikers. To the memory of Smitty's of Moundsville W VA , I salute you.