New Seymour Hersh Bombshell? Hersh describes Cheney's "executive assassination ring"

[sabra]

http://www.minnpost.com/ericblackblog/2009/03/11/7310/investigative_reporter_seymour_hersh_describes_executive_assassination_ring

Investigative reporter Seymour Hersh describes 'executive assassination ring'

At a “Great Conversations” event at the University of Minnesota last night, legendary investigative reporter Seymour Hersh may have made a little more news than he intended by talking about new alleged instances of domestic spying by the CIA, and about an ongoing covert military operation that he called an “executive assassination ring.”

Hersh spoke with great confidence about these findings from his current reporting, which he hasn’t written about yet.

In an email exchange afterward, Hersh said that his statements were “an honest response to a question” from the event’s moderator, U of M Political Scientist Larry Jacobs and “not something I wanted to dwell about in public.”

Hersh didn’t take back the statements, which he said arise from reporting he is doing for a book, but that it might be a year or two before he has what he needs on the topic to be “effective...that is, empirical, for even the most skeptical.”

...

At the end of one answer by Hersh about how these things tend to happen, Jacobs asked: “And do they continue to happen to this day?”

Replied Hersh:

“Yuh. After 9/11, I haven’t written about this yet, but the Central Intelligence Agency was very deeply involved in domestic activities against people they thought to be enemies of the state. Without any legal authority for it. They haven’t been called on it yet. That does happen.

"Right now, today, there was a story in the New York Times that if you read it carefully mentioned something known as the Joint Special Operations Command -- JSOC it’s called. It is a special wing of our special operations community that is set up independently. They do not report to anybody, except in the Bush-Cheney days, they reported directly to the Cheney office. They did not report to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff or to Mr. {Robert} Gates, the secretary of defense. They reported directly to him. ...

"Congress has no oversight of it. It’s an executive assassination ring essentially, and it’s been going on and on and on. Just today in the Times there was a story that its leaders, a three star admiral named {William H.} McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths.

"Under President Bush’s authority, they’ve been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving. That’s been going on, in the name of all of us.

[babylonsister]

1. Gasp! Mr. Hersh needs to start writing about this! nt

[sabra]

6. the author of the aricle says Hersh is writing a book - though it might not come out for a year

hopefully he'll report on his findings sooner...

[leveymg]

49. Well, I guess we now know who did Air Marshal Mir, 3 Saudi shiekhs, and all those biowarfare guys

The only question is, did they get the right ones? Guess it'll be some time before we know, since nobody much wants to talk about it now.

Suskind was right about the names Abu Zubaydah blurted out right after he was captured, wasn't he?

Even Hersh won't talk about it. Much.

[The Hope Mobile]

78. More importantly, Michael Connell, the DC Madame et al nt

[lala_rawraw]

100. can we please not jump into crazy-land...

DC Madame killed herself. I know this because I wasted far too much time chasing her tips and interviewing her. She was unstable and she told me she would rather die than go to jail. She killed herself.

We don't yet know if Connell was murdered.

Let's not go to crazyland please and make this forum look like a bunch of lunatics.

[Ichingcarpenter]

107. Thanks for the reporting and the update

I didn't know you interviewed her. I knew Hersh would drop a bombshell
after the election and reported that he was getting a lot of people who
were gonna spill the beans but feared for their life until after the election.

[lala_rawraw]

109. Yes, i spent months interviewing

Her and found her to be disturbed and untruthful. I am not the only one, I later learned. I have a feeling that Hersh's bomb may be related to this:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/US_outsourcing_special_operations_intelligence_gathering_0413.html

[Ichingcarpenter]

112. I think it was that Iraqi connection but I suspect

that once he started it, domestic integration was not
far behind knowing Cheney.

I looked at the autopsy report on the DC madam and
am convinced she was desponded after the indictment and
the number of years she had to serve in prison. She even reviewed
her late father's video tapes before the day. I don't think she was a player
in the big picture, but a Pennsylvanian Appalachian Floridian that hit the big time in DC


Data from the autopsy is available on line

Cheney connections to Negroponte are interesting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3060320

[lala_rawraw]

117. yes, you are right... i had forgotten the Negroponte

angle... although even he seemed sober next to Cheney... which should indicate the level of criminal we are watching in Cheney

[Ichingcarpenter]

118. Negroponte started the assassination and death squads in Central America

I'm sure they talked and then he went to Iraq

[defendandprotect]

239. Negroponte is still floating around in the new administration . . .???

[Jackpine Radical]

130. Yes, that sounds like what Hersh was talking about.

[The Hope Mobile]

138. You're entitled to your opinion but many people share this one.

I'd say that you're the type that would've believed that Cheney couldn't have an assassination ring as well. Bingo!!

Just because someone's loony or dishonest doesn't mean that Cheney wouldn't consider them a threat. Look down-thread. You yourself expressed concerns about Connell's death and you could easily be called a conspiracy theorist. That kind of rudeness is what makes this place unpleasant for many. A LOT of what has been considered crazy around here at one point has been proven eventually so before you start calling names you might want to think a little bit.

[lala_rawraw]

176. ah no...

i don't have to speculate with DC Madame... unlike your theorizing from a far, i actually spent a good deal of time with her.

[The Hope Mobile]

198. Uh yeah. Look downthread. You're being rude and offensive. I don't care if you met with her.

Whether or not she was delusional has nothing to do with whether or not she was offed. You must've felt she had some credibility to start with or you wouldn't have interviewed her in the first place. That's what they were afraid of. She was a threat to them. You're delusional to think that your behavior is acceptable. LOTS of people have ended up dead because of these people and all had varying degrees of sanity. One could easily say that Michael Connell was delusional because he felt it was his mission from God to "help" Bush get elected. Maybe he didn't trust YOU for a reason. Start using a little reason. You might get further.
Shame on you!
PS afar is ONE word - journalist.

[lala_rawraw]

227. okay listen up

you have no idea what you are talking about. i interviewed her because there was something there, but what the there turned out to be was kaka... bs, lies, and more lies. that is why i did nothing with it... you are absolutely paranoid. Connell did not kill himself. Palfrey did.

[bottomtheweaver]

240. Would it be fair to say she was driven to suicide?

I'm not familiar with the details except for the allegations, but even if she did actually put the gun to her head or whatever she did, there had to be a reason she silenced herself, no?

[lala_rawraw]

245. yes, that would be fair...

But by whom or what? From my dealings with her, she was manipulative and untruthful and used those of us who tried to look at her story to further her own agenda... Ultimately, she was never stable. But facing prison time for running a hooker ring (which she did), and moving that money into a secret account in Germany (which she did), was enough to drive her to suicide. She was afraid of going to jail. She told me this. She told others this. She was afraid she would be raped there (her fear, not my words). She felt it undignified as well (her words, not mine). She told me she would rather die than go to jail. So it is not that she "silenced herself" as you suggest. She took another way out of a situation that frightened her.

There was no motive for anyone to kill her. Not like Lemme or even Connell, there is simply nothing there.

She had one major, big time client, Sen. Vitter. And that was already out in the public sphere. No one had a motive to drive her to suicide. She had nothing else. Cheney was not a client - for all of her insinuations and dangling that red meat to reporters to keep us interested (and we were at first). He was not. Period. You think for a moment that if I got that scoop I would bury it? No way!!! When her Cheney lie became apparent to me. I confronted her. Her story changed. She next told me that her case was tied to Luna's murder (and he was murdered). And I chased that like an idiot. I asked her repeatedly how she knew this to be true. And she would never tell me. When I finally debunked the things she was telling me and confronted her, she admitted that she had read it on someone's blog!!!! I dropped her after yet a third lie I was stupid enough to fall for. In all, I spent thousands of dollars and countless hours running after her allegations. And I was not alone. She liked to ABC, and everyone else.

And when I told her to sod off, she went around telling the few people who still believed her, like blogger Matt Jenovic, that I had wronged her. Matt waged a pen war against me on her behalf, before he too woke up and realized she was a liar and publicly apologized to me. Read this:


"I'd also like to take a moment to apologize and correct my statements towards the exceptional journalist, Larisa Alexandrovna. The late Ms. Palfrey conveyed information to myself and others that was a lie and sent us on a trajectory of confrontation with Ms. Alexandrovna. Had I known at the time--and I did have my suspicions--none of the comments that came afterward would have happened. I retract them in-full, here, now, and I consider it a very heavy weight lifted. Best wishes to Larisa. Contrary to certain contentions, hope really is alive, and more than ever, not since January 1981."
http://chickasawpicklesmell.blogspot.com/search/label/Larisa%20Alexandrovna

[bottomtheweaver]

253. Thanks Larisa, that's quite a story

and I'm very happy to defer to your experience. Still you have to admit that her suicide fits a pattern, so I can understand the suspicion it has aroused.

[rhett o rick]

207. Were you there at the time of her death? nm

[The Hope Mobile]

217. Awesome. Better yet, lala - have you interviewed Cheney's death squad?

Do you know they didn't feel threatened by her?
Have you read the part where she repeatedly tells people that if something happens to her it isn't suicide??
You're losing credibility fast.

[lala_rawraw]

226. dude... get a grip n/t

[ooglymoogly]

191. Sorry but we are already there.

We have been there since the B*sh circus of crazy came to town. This crazy will last long into the future damaging our lives since it stole its way to power. The good ol' USA will never be the same. Maybe since Nixon and the assassination of JFK it has not been the same. Instead of the good ol' USA it has become the good ol' boy Murka.

[rhett o rick]

206. Curious what it would take for you to become suspicious? The list of lives destroyed

that were "associated" with Cheney is very long. He had the means and the motive. He also had control of the justice dept.

there were way too many lives destroyed to be coincidental. With very little investigation into any of them.

Cheney walks like a duck, talks like a duck, he sure as hell is a duck.

[lala_rawraw]

230. um... gee.

i don't know... how about the fact that i have already reported half the things you are talking about... the use of MEK by Cheney, the use of a ghost team by Rummy and Cheney, the Connell crash, the Plame outing, Siegelman, Minor, etc.. don't lecture me about what it would take or not take. you have no idea what it has taken. he did not have the motive to kill Palfrey. what motive do you think? he was not on the phone records. i had them. there was NO there there. she knew this... she was manipulating all of us to get publicity for her case. seriously... don't give me a lecture on what actual work takes. i have done it. you just go ahead and keep speculating in your basement!

[rhett o rick]

248. Sorry if I came across as rude enough for the "basement" comment. I was asking

an honest question. Where can I read your reporting?

But you come across to me as critical of our distrust of Cheney. We know he was involved in some serious cases like Plame. But others, like Connell, I haven't seen anything to convince me that his death was an accident. We know someone set Dan Rather up. Has that been investigated? And someone sent anthrax aimed at either killing or shutting up two important Democratic senators. There have been way too many suspicious suicides and small plane crashes for me to look the other way.

If there is evidence showing that these suspicious deaths were on the level, I'd like to see it. But I have limited investigative ability from my "basement".

[defendandprotect]

119. Collateral deaths? I'm thinking of Wellstone and family . . !!!

The CIA has to be dismantled --

And we have to find a way to ensure that nut-factories like Rumsfeld/Cheney and their
cohorts -- the Wizards of Oz -- don't ever come to power again!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

128. After working with Ford - Cheney knew the inner workings

of intelligence and power centers of the government.
Ass Sec. of Defense under Bush he had acquired all the contacts
and favoritism he needed to achieve his power move.

Then when he was out of power he went with Halliburton and KBR and
concocted the Cheney energy plan for the nation once back in power.


Nasty piece of Work, his congressional record showed what he stood for.

[defendandprotect]

137. Cheney and Rumsfeld were in the shadows as far as the public was concerned . . .

and also trying to restart the Cold War ---

I was reading something about Ford the other day which really startled me

because I have never been naive about the corproate-media . . .

but way back there -- Ford is saying -- and I don't know the exact

words -- but more or less, "Don't worry, I can control the AP and UPI" ---

Now, I knew they changed hands over the last 20 years . . . but I didn't

think they could have been controlled that far back!

[The Hope Mobile]

139. And I would agree with that one too. Mine were just the beginning of the list.

[rhett o rick]

209. I don't think it is the CIA. Makes sense to me to have a parallel organization that works for the

international corporation cabal.

[glinda]

257. I agree with everything you said X10

[glinda]

258. but the CIA needs to be cleaned out

[JackRiddler]

168. Suskind? Are you sure you don't mean Posner?

We're talking about this story:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,480240,00.html

Posner elaborates in startling detail how U.S. interrogators used drugs - an unnamed "quick-on, quick-off" painkiller and Sodium Pentothal, the old movie truth serum - in a chemical version of reward and punishment to make Zubaydah talk. When questioning stalled, according to Posner, CIA men flew Zubaydah to an Afghan complex fitted out as a fake Saudi jail chamber, where "two Arab-Americans, now with Special Forces," pretending to be Saudi inquisitors, used drugs and threats to scare him into more confessions.

Yet when Zubaydah was confronted by the false Saudis, writes Posner, "his reaction was not fear, but utter relief." Happy to see them, he reeled off telephone numbers for a senior member of the royal family who would, said Zubaydah, "tell you what to do."The man at the other end would be Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, a Westernized nephew of King Fahd and a publisher better known as a racehorse owner. His horse War Emblem won the Kentucky Derby in 2002). To the amazement of the U.S., the numbers proved valid. When the fake inquisitors accused Zubaydah of lying, he responded with a 10-minute monologue laying out the Saudi-Pakistani-Osama triangle, according to the book.

Zubaydah, writes Posner, said the Saudi connection ran through Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom�s longtime intelligence chief. Zubaydah said bin Laden "personally" told him of a 1991 meeting at which Turki agreed to let bin Laden leave Saudi Arabia and to provide him with secret funds as long as al-Qaeda refrained from promoting jihad in the kingdom. The Pakistani contact, high - ranking air force officer Mushaf Ali Mir, entered the equation, Zubaydah said, at a 1996 meeting in Pakistan also attended by Zubaydah. Bin Laden struck a deal with Mir, then in the military but tied closely to Islamists in Pakistan�s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), to get protection, arms and supplies for al-Qaeda. Zubaydah told interrogators bin Laden said the arrangement was "blessed by the Saudis," according to Posner.

Zubaydah said he attended a third meeting in Kandahar in 1998 with Turki, senior ISI agents and Taliban officials. There Turki promised, writes Posner, that "more Saudi aid would flow to the Taliban, and the Saudis would never ask for bin Laden�s extradition, so long as al-Qaeda kept its long-standing promise to direct fundamentalism away from the kingdom." In Posner�s stark judgment, the Saudis "effectively had (bin Laden) on their payroll since the start of the decade." Abu Zubaydah told the interrogators that the Saudis regularly sent the funds through three royal-prince intermediaries he named, according to the book.

The last eight paragraphs of the book set up a final startling development, McGeary writes. Those three Saudi princes all perished within days of one another. On July 22, 2002, Prince Ahmed was felled by a heart attack at age 43. One day later Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, 41, was killed in what was called a high-speed car accident. The last member of the trio, Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, officially "died of thirst" while traveling east of Riyadh one week later. And seven months after that, Mushaf Ali Mir, by then Pakistan�s Air Marshal, perished in a plane crash in clear weather over the unruly North-West Frontier Province, along with his wife and closest confidants, Posner writes.

Without charging any skulduggery (Posner told TIME they "may in fact be coincidences"), the author notes that these deaths occurred after CIA officials passed along Zubaydah�s accusations to Riyadh and Islamabad.

SNIP

My problem with this story is that Posner's not a reliable narrator, and his sources include: "Posner told TIME he got the details of Zubaydah�s interrogation and revelations from a U.S. official outside the CIA at a 'very senior Executive Branch level' whose name we would probably know if he told it to us, McGeary writes. He did not." Okay, so that could be Cheney or someone close to him. "The second source, Posner said, was from the CIA, and he gave what Posner viewed as general confirmation of the story but did not repeat the details." If this source did not repeat the details it might be as little as hearing the story and saying, "sounds about right."

So if those are the sources on what "Zubaydah" is saying, how do we know it was really "Zubaydah" who provided the information that led to these deaths, if they were deliberate? I can also imagine the deaths being grouped together artificially (say one was deliberate and the other two were coincidental, and the three were grouped together to hide the one, a story was constructed and Posner was used to feed it to us).

Today Prince Turki (the important one, former head of intel) goes around the lecture circuit in the US and criticizes US support for Israel.

[leveymg]

172. My bad. Posner it was. This account has its critics, true, but it fits. We'll see.

I'm not wedded to Posner's account, but even before these particular deaths occurred, I believed that whoever planned the hijackings had to have some sort of professional knowledge of U.S. air defense and FAA procedures, as well as motive. That narrowed it down to Saudi or more likely, Pakistani, Air Attache(s) attached to the Embassy in DC.

As for the shiekhs, the financing came from somewhere. It did seem strange that one would end up stranded in the desert, dead of thirst. Another was the son of one the Seven brothers who stand against Abdullah and the Americanist facation of the Royal family. Doesn't anyone carry water in a jug in the trunk of their large American automobile, anymore? 43 does seem a bit young for a heart attack.

Pakistani officials seem to go down in aircraft with alarming frequency, I know. But, usually the US Ambassador isn't with them, and if that does happen, it would be expected to get more American media play, wouldn't it? But, it got little attention at the time.

[JackRiddler]

177. Oh, I agree, there's something there...

But the possibilities are several, two examples:

Posner's story and supposition as told?

A diversion fed to him to falsely pin suspicion on these guys who were patsies?

In your last para, you must be talking about Zia and the Ambassador on PAK 1 in '89? I remember that got as much attention in US media as any other story from Pakistan prior to 2001. (Not much, but it was covered on the nightly news and Times and so forth.)

[leveymg]

184. A diversion is entirely possible. Who knows who Posner's sources were? The U.S. Ambassador,

Arnie Raphel, went down in Zia's C-130 in 1988. Unsolved crime. Whoever did it, would certainly end up on any list of "enemies of America." If Zia was a U.S. job, Raphel must have been implicated for something equally serious - it seems inconceivable that the Bush 41 would have allowed so much blowback without some really strong reason. Also, I doubt Clarke's "in his bones feeling" it was the Russian payback for Afghanistan - the Soviets were way too risk-averse for that sort of thing. So, that leaves the Pakistanis themselves as the most likely suspects, and someone high-ranking within the Pakistani Air Force as accomplice. But, without really solid evidence, there would have been no immediate sanctions against the Pakistanis for the U.S. Ambassador's death. The context of the secret war against the Russians along with the element of uncertainty about who was responsible, no doubt, kept press coverage subdued.

Fast forward fifteen years. Post-9/11 - all is now allowed. If Posner is right about Abu Zubaydah's naming Mir, then sanctions would have been authorized without a second thought if there was already a dossier on him.

Anyway, somehow, I think there's more to the Air Marshal Mir part of this. American suspicions about him likely went back many years.

[bagrman]

108. Mmm I smell a sucide , accident or heart attack coming. & no notes will be found.

[JackRiddler]

174. Do you mind? The lines between worry, prediction & wish are blurry.

The constant invocation of this kind of talk is irresponsible and gradually angers.

[bagrman]

186. Not worried about prediciting the Neocons will be wishing this to go away.

[tblue37]

188. Yeah, since people who know stuff about Cheney tend to

die young, in suspicious circumstances. I also hope he has fail-safe arrangements to reveal info should something untoward happen to him. The Washington Madam didn't, and Michael Connell (that Republican election-theft IT guy) who died in a small plane didn't.

[glinda]

256. Hopefully asap people should be hauled in front of a commission. Screw the Book.

And who is to say that this Ops Group isn't still running under Cheney and his connections because the interviews indicated an incestuous relationship going back years for many of these people??????

[Lars39]

2. Holy crap!

:wow: :scared: :wtf: Are they still around, reporting only to Cheney?!

[woodsprite]

13. Probably. After all, didn't Cheney recently buy a house near the

CIA compound in Virginia? I remember because I thought it seemed rather odd at the time.

[leveymg]

57. No. It's next to Rumsfeld's summer place, "Mt. Misery", in Talbott Co., MD

CIA is spread all over Tyson's Corner/McLean/Langley and the rest of NoVA.

[bahrbearian]

85. They want to stay close so they can help Chuck Norris Seize Power.

[Stephanie]

114. That was a few years ago. They have a new house in McClean VA

Right near the CIA. Cheney has a "transition office" in McClean as well.

[glinda]

259. perhaps you mean "Transmission Office"

[defendandprotect]

121. Cheney shouldn't be on the loose -- he should be in prison!!

[MiniMe]

92. Yes, he did. Some DU'er posted a video of the short 5 minute walk

from the CIA to Cheney's house. They bought a house on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, but I don't know if they have lived in it yet.

[hootinholler]

126. I think he does have a house in Langley.

He certainly has offices there, courtesy of our tax dollars.

-Hoot

[The Hope Mobile]

140. Yes he does.

Couldn't get much closer.

[SpiralHawk]

58. "Sneer." - xVP Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney (R)

[Lars39]

60. Maniacal:

maniacal
1.affected with or suggestive of madness <maniacal laughter>
2 : characterized by ungovernable excitement or frenzy

[SpiralHawk]

90. ...and that's a real photo of Five Deferments Cheney - not photoshopped

Beware Republicon Homelander Chickenhawks -- they got a sickness going on way down deep inside.

[sofa king]

214. Wow! Where's Timothy Carey when you need him?

http://pics.livejournal.com/mrdankelly/pic/00157gfa/

[Generator]

105. Cheney bots!

Like that new sci-fi show, Doll House. They do whatever you want them to. Just when I thought Dr. Evil was not around for my comedic relief, he returns! He is the hellchickenhawk that keeps on giving.

[myrna minx]

3. Damn. Who do they report to now, or have they been disbanded? I'd like to learn more about this.n/t

[suston96]

4. Sounds like a movie plot - Seven Days In May........nt

[dysfunctional press]

161. how about the jason bourne series?

:shrug:

[47of74]

5. This is why we need to investigate, charge, and prosecute these people

Because without justice we may someday have another Republican administration that feels perfectly fine doing such crap!

[FailureToCommunicate]

116. Amen to that. No one -especially Ol Man Potter Cheney- is above the law.

[Greyskye]

7. You don't know Dick

Has there ever been a more malignant tumor on the executive branch than this smegma pustule?


K&R

[BonnieJW]

23. And what about the guy who was the mastermind

of all the bush IT stuff? He was going to testify and his plane "crashed." McConnell? Connelley?

[Missie56]

94. Mike Connell

Killed in a plane crash 12/19/08. He was CEO of NEW MEDIA COMMUNICATIONS, INC. Connell was believed to be involved in the missing White House emails (US Attorney firings scandal) and computer voting fraud in Ohio in 2004.

Ohio's SOS requested Federal witness protection for Connell because of a credible claim that he was threatened by Karl Rove.


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mike_Connell

[glinda]

260. Well said

[MinneapolisMatt]

8. Paul Wellstone.

You bet it's happening here too.

[G_j]

35. Cheney, reportedly....

At a meeting full of war veterans in Willmar, Minn., days before his death, Wellstone told attendees that Cheney told him, "If you vote against the war in Iraq, the Bush administration will do whatever is necessary to get you. There will be severe ramifications for you and the state of Minnesota."

[glinda]

261. yikes

[dflprincess]

39. Given that this was at the U of M

I wonder if anyone asked about Wellstone? You'd think someone would have brought it up.

[file83]

51. What about the "suicide" of Raymond Lemme, the FDOT detective who

just days before he was found dead in a seedy Georgia motel room told people close to him that he was on to something "big" and that it went "all the way to the top"?

He was investigating money laundering operations tied to the Florida Department of Transportation and drug trafficking. Cheney was probably just protecting Jeb Bush.

There were fundamental flaws in that case that the Police conveniently overlooked.

[defendandprotect]

241. Had to look up Richard Lemme ---

This poor guy didn't wasn't even working for himself --- he did all of this

investigating in service to the public!

I'm amazed that Curtis got his story out and especially this far --- !!


In Curtis' 2001 complaint to the IG's office, filed along with another FDOT whistleblower, he charged that an illegal Chinese alien was working at and committing espionage out of YEI and that YEI was illegally over-billing FDOT in a multi-million dollar contract. That contract, Curtis charges, was received with assistance from Feeney, who was, at the time of Curtis' original complaint, the Florida Speaker of the House as well as legal counsel and a registered lobbyist for YEI. Feeney had previously been Jeb Bush's running-mate in his original failed bid for Florida governor in 1994. Feeney now sits on the U.S. House Judiciary Committee representing Florida's 24th Congressional district.

The Chinese spy reported by Curtis was eventually indicted and pled guilty to espionage charges (see this previous BRAD BLOG report for more details). For their part, YEI was recently found --- in the IG's final report begun by Lemme in 2001 and finally released in February 2005 --- to have billed FDOT for more than $300,000 in "questionable charges" (see this recent BRAD BLOG report for more info on that).

THE 'BIG' CASE...

In his 2004 affidavit, Curtis describes a mid-June 2003 meeting with Lemme in which he claims that Lemme told him he "had tracked the corruption 'all the way to the top' and that the story would break in the next few weeks and I would be satisfied with the results."

On July 1, 2003 --- just two weeks later --- Raymond Camillo Lemme was found dead in a bathtub, with his arm slashed twice with a razor blade near the left elbow in Room #132 of the Knights Inn motel in Valdosta, Georgia; a border-town some 80 miles from Tallahassee, Florida where Lemme lived and worked.

Curtis also pointed out that Georgia has no autopsy requirements -- Florida does.

Re Lemme's info that the "big case" went 'all the way to the top' -- and that the story
would break in the next few weeks .... I would imagine Lemme would have turned over
whatever info/evidence he had developed at that point on to higher up's ....
Does someone have this info and is waiting --- ?????

And looks like Tom Feeney may still be in Congress --- !!!

http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/node/262

[truedelphi]

254. Would like to K & R your post

Didn't someone close to Feeney at least get investigated for the murder recently??

[defendandprotect]

255. Presume no one has been appointed to continue Lemme's investigation....???

And, first I heard of Feeney ---

Somewhere along the line, I'd like to try to get back to this story --

I was aware of Curtis -- I've seen a video of his statement ---

amazing how out there and casual they are about talking to someone abou t

fixing elections!!! Did he ever say how much they offered him to do it --

or what they offered him?

And Feeney is still in Congress -- can't believe it!

I really lost track of this one -- it's like Bush/Cheney were dropping bombs

off a pick up truck every day -- this was just one of hundreds!

[tanngrisnir3]

72. Archduke Ferdinand! Just saying someone's name doesn't mean...

they were offed by the former VP

[rhett o rick]

208. Yeah, we all know that. What's your point. nm

[The Hope Mobile]

219. Really??

:sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

125. I agree . . . certainly someone has been clearing the way for the right-wing ...

for decades ---

AND, keeping us leaderless -- which is something we should be noticing and

talking about!

[YOY]

9. That dead madame comes to mind.

She said that she had some big names to name...including one very big one. Said she's never kill herself. She then "killed herself". A little too much suicide going on among people who either have or could have something on Dead-eye Dick.

Rumor mill in DC had it that Dick likes his hookers. A lot.

Rumors that when his buddy got shot in the face there were hookers involved there as well.

[smoogatz]

11. Yep.

That was some freaky shit. The anthrax scientist who "killed himself" didn't sound quite right, either.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

22. Don't forget Dr. David Kelley

The British UN Weapons Inspector who "suicided" in 2003. (Disputed Blair's 45-minute claim on Iraq).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)

[Octafish]

64. Don't forget John Kokal, State Department Iraq expert

He "fell" to his death at the State Department. From the roof. In his socks. Just after opposing the war.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=203767&mesg_id=203894

[Divine Discontent]

150. good grief, never knew that one! terrifying. they clearly 'cleaned house' of anyone they could who

opposed their tyrannical goals...

[Octafish]

152. Don't forget Col. Ted Westhusing.

Know your BFEE: They kill good soldiers like Col. Ted Westhusing for profit...

Thank you for caring, Divine Discontent. Please help keep their memories alive.

[Divine Discontent]

155. Thank you, Octafish. And for your actions in helping achieve that and shining light on it all.

You know the people who took the lives of these men are cowards who used their weapons for greed (and to hide the truth). My hope is that our country gets them while they're alive for what they've done to these people and their families. Personally, I do believe in an afterlife, and it's gonna be hell for these traitorous murderers.

My best to you...

[Raksha]

34. Yes, thanks for reminding me about the dead madam.

I bet anything she was one of the victims of this super-secret "task force."

[YOY]

36. What's the public care about a dead hooker? A "traitorous" Scientist, etc...

All of the folks they can do away with...those that do their dirty business are all expendable.

It just gets wierder when they publicly say "I have no plans on killing myself." and a month later...whoops they've been "suicided"!

[DemoTex]

56. Baxter of Enron, too (suicided with rat-shot).

Maybe even Kenny-boy Lay: Heart attack, no autopsy, cremation.

:shrug:

[dmr]

61. Yes, that one is puzzling; I've sometimes wondered if Lays not on an island

somewhere enjoying himself courtesy of the Bush*/Cheney WH.

He 'died' just when justice might have prevailed.

[windbreeze]

71. How about the assassination of S.Vienamese Pres..back in "63"..

just a couple weeks before JFK??....and...more recently JFK jr...I suggest that Mr.Hersch take no small planes...wait, now that I think about it, wasn't there a guy who was going to testify just recently, who took a small plane that crashed...??The people involved in all of this are NOT going to want the information to become public...of that, I am positive...wb

[Politicalboi]

79. Nothing would surprise me

I saw a video of JFK jr's "mishap" and they said he traveled with an instructor. It took them 15 hours to find the wreckage even though they last spotted the signal 17 miles from shore. And they didn't find the co-pilots seat and the gas gage was off. Same with the flight that crashed not far from that on a jet airliner. The gas gage was in the off position. It was the "Ala is Great" crash. They have an idiot switch to turn off the fuel so you have to know what your doing. (No accidental shut off) It was suggested that they traveled with a manchurian candidate in the video. JFK jr and his wife and SIL waited at the airport for 45 minutes for the instructor to show. JFK jr had crashed just weeks earlier and he had a cast on his leg but the night he flew it had been removed but he was going after another license, and he needed an instructor to complete his time. And they say his wife wouldn't have flown with him without an instructor. But they never found an instructor or his seat. A relative called the FAA and said they had an instructor. Radar said the plane nosed dived into the ocean. And GW Bush was MIA all that weekend. Al Gore had stopped his campaigning in memory.

[Missie56]

95. windbreeze

See my post # 94. This guy was involved in a lot of stuff.

[defendandprotect]

129. There's a very long and active list going back at least to the JFK coup

which was really a coup on democratic government ---

Malcolm X was one of the first to point to what the CIA was doing around the

world at that time -- and most Americans didn't have a hint of what was happening

then -- and he was saying that what they do elsewhere they also bring home.

[windbreeze]

159. Isn't he the one

that an alphabet agency finally admitted that they had killed, in his home/apt...and made it look like a murder?..

[defendandprotect]

251. No . . . Malcolm X was killed quite publickly . . .

Speaking engagement --- 15 shots at close range --

Didn't have a lot of time to check for info, but here's some on it --

On February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was shot to death as he delivered a speech in Manhattan's Audobon Ballroom. The following March, three men -- Talmadge Hayer, Norman Butler, and Thomas Johnson -- were convicted of murdering the 39-year-old black leader. Though prosecutors suggested at trial that the slaying was plotted as "an object lesson for Malcolm's followers," no direct evidence linked the Nation of Islam -- from which Malcolm had publicly broken -- to the killing, though that speculation still thrives.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/malcolmx/malcolmx.html


There was a notorious shooting you may be referring to I think in Chicago?

As I recall it -- Fred Hampton/Black Panther group.

A number of them were shot in their apartment while they were asleep.

Think this was part of Cointelpro? Been a long time since I read about it,

but this link will give you some info on it.

As I recall it, they were drugged? Which is why they didn't awaken at the

invasion by FBI.

http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Fred_Hampton

[Jackpine Radical]

131. Ngo Dinh Diem, in case you're looking for the name.

[windbreeze]

160. yes, I was looking for the name...thank you...

had I done just a little research, I would have had it...wb

[Ilsa]

97. I bet she was one of them. ITA.

[The Hope Mobile]

141. See above. Don't let lala rawraw hear that one. The others are possible

but THAT one's crazy.

[lala_rawraw]

178. yeah... don't let me hear that one

because i actually knew the person... woooooooo and actually knew that she was suicidal .... wow... imagine actually knowing rather than pulling theories out of your ass... wow

[rhett o rick]

212. The fact that she was suicidal doesn't mean she died of suicide. nm

[lala_rawraw]

229. lmao...

and what motive, do tell, would a death squad have to kill call girl who had nada in terms of info? she was self destructive ... if people wanted her dead, they needed only to stand back and watch her self-destruct. no needed to kill her. she had nothing. i know this and every other journalist who fell for her bs knows this too... we all got used and some of us walked away. she killed herself at her mother's home!! she told all of us who talked to her that she would rather be dead than go to jail. and guess what? as soon as the appeal was up and she had to do time... she killed herself. end of story.

[The Hope Mobile]

216. You seem well acquainted with that. Takes one to know one I guess.

This is the first time you say anything about her being suicidal and obviously that would've been noteworthy BEFORE you started lashing out so childishly and rudely. That still doesn't make those of us who question her death crazy. I guess if some new news ever comes out about Connell then you'll say that was a crazy thought too, even though you originally suggested it. What a hypocrite.

[lala_rawraw]

228. this is not the first time...

you are just simply new... we have rehashed this many times. you don't know what you are talking about. all of us, those of us who spent time with her were not surprised. the only people surprised? are people who thought there was a there "there"

[defendandprotect]

242. Since none of us were there . . . IMO, Palfrey's death is still open

to questioning . . . especially among so many "suicides."

And because so many of the cases present as much contradiction as the Bible --- !!!


When a former employee of Palfrey's, Brandy Britton, hanged herself before going to trial, Palfrey told the press, "I guess I'm made of something that Brandy Britton wasn't made of."

Palfrey also suggested suicide was cowardice . . .
I disagree with that for many reasons - usually people in great pain.

That Palfrey was the second suicide from this group I think is more than odd.

Palfrey's trial, which concluded in mid-April with a conviction, is one of very few such cases prosecuted in the federal courts. Most prostitution violations are dealt with at the state or municipal level, and attract little publicity. In the Palfrey case, prosecutors obliged a string of obviously embarrassed clients and employees of the escort service to appear on the witness stand and testify under oath.

Moldea comments on that . . .

You have to remember that all those who worked for her service and those who used it — none of them were held to account, or punished. And now, she is dead."

Palfrey ran her operation — which covered the Washington D.C., Baltimore and northern Virginia area —by telephone from her home in California.

Does that seem odd to anyone else?

Anyway, the charges seem a bit piling on to me ---

I, personally, don't much care that the line between "Escort" and "Prostitution" may be being

crossed. I do care that too often there are ties to organized crime -- not usually at the

behest of the "owner."

Whatever advice Palfrey was getting on running her business it didn't serve her very well.

According to court testimony, Palfrey would sometimes even contact clients for after-action reports to determine whether her employees were doing their job correctly and enthusiastically.

And, somehow, she seemed to have a false sense of security.

Meanwhile, it doesn't look like Madoff will be sentenced to more than 7 years-!

And how much of that might he actually serve--?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1736687,00.html



PS: Britton committed suicide in January, days before she was scheduled to stand trial on prostitution charges and be evicted from her $600,000 Ellicott City home. She faced up to a year in prison on each count, but Howard County prosecutors said that if convicted, she likely wouldn’t have served any time.

http://www.examiner.com/a-714063~Accused_D_C__madam__Britton_worked_for_her.html

[grasswire]

10. How does Hersch stay safe?

And is this assassination squad limited to foreign ops? I suspect not.

[YOY]

38. He's not a prostitute or made up to be a "traitor" of some sort.

He also has nothing solid that the public cannot refute (video recordings of an assasination etc...) and a reputation as a "liberal journalist".

[Muttocracy]

101. I wonder the same thing. Maybe he has dirt on everyone stored up in undisclosed vaults. nt

[The Hope Mobile]

218. But don't they also say that if you're going to stick your neck out do it

VERY visibly?!?! So visibly that people will KNOW something's really wrong if you disappear and they'll know who had the motivation to make that happen?
I'm sure he does have all of his stuff tucked away in a safe place.

[defendandprotect]

243. I think that's a very interesting question . . .

I submit the same question re John Dean ---

And I've always thought that Dean must have managed to have some info which

he didn't divulge.

At the time surrounding the coup on JFK, they say that a huge number of lawyers

in Washington, DC turned up dead --- the presumption being that people were making

statements, giving info, etal to attornies and that one way or another, the trail

led to these lawyers and poof! Lawyer and info gone!

The lawyers, of course, were among many, many who turned up dead.

[Bolo Boffin]

12. An earlier mention of the JSOC

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/23/national/nationalspecial3/23code.html

The precise number of these Special Operations forces in Washington this week is highly classified, but military officials say the number is very small. The special-missions units belong to the Joint Special Operations Command, a secretive command based at Fort Bragg, N.C., whose elements include the Army unit Delta Force.

In the past, the command has also provided support to domestic law enforcement agencies during high-risk events like the Olympics and political party conventions, according to the Web site of GlobalSecurity.org, a research organization in Alexandria, Va.

The role of the armed forces in the United States has been a contentious issue for more than a century. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which restricts military forces from performing domestic law enforcement duties, like policing, was enacted after the Civil War in response to the perceived misuse of federal troops who were policing in the South.

Over the years, the law has been amended to allow the military to lend equipment to federal, state and local authorities; assist federal agencies in drug interdiction; protect national parks; and execute quarantine and certain health laws. About 5,000 federal troops supported civilian agencies at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City three years ago.

Since Sept. 11, however, military and law enforcement agencies have worked much more closely not only to help detect and defeat any possible attack, including from unconventional weapons, but also to assure the continuity of the federal government in case of cataclysmic disaster.

From the mentioned GlobalSecurity.org site:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/dod/jsoc.htm

Although JSOC's stated purpose is to provide a unified command structure for conducting joint special operations and exercises, it is widely reported that JSOC is actually the command responsible for conducting US counter-terrorism (CT) operations. JSOC is reported to command the US military's Special Missions Units (SMUs). These SMUs are tasked with conducting CT operations, strike operations, reconnaissance in denied areas, and special intelligence missions.

Much of the hunting for senior Taliban and al Qaeda members in Afghanistan is being conducted by a unit called Task Force 11, composed mostly of Delta Force soldiers and SEALs.

In 1998 the US Department of Defense’s top policy official acknowledged that the military has covert action teams to combat terrorism and to counter potential terrorist use of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). "We have designated Special Mission Units that are specifically manned, equipped and trained to deal with a wide variety of transnational threats," said Walter Slocombe, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy.

JSOC units have reportedly been involved in a number of covert military operations over the last two decades. Some of these operations include providing assistance to Italian authorities during their search for kidnapped US Army Gen. James Dozier, participating in Operation Urgent Fury; the US invasion of Grenada, planning a rescue attempt of US hostages being held in Lebanon, rescuing hostages being held aboard the cruise liner Achille Lauro, participating in Operation Just Cause; the US intervention in Panama, directing US Scud hunting efforts during Operation Desert Storm, conducting operations in support of UN mandates in Somalia, and searching for suspected war criminals in the former Republic of Yugoslavia.

JSOC units regularly conduct training with similar units from around the world, and provide training to nations that request US support. JSOC has also provide support to domestic law enforcement agencies during high profile, or high risk events such as the Olympics, the World Cup, political party conventions; and Presidential inaugurations.

JSOC is a component of Special Operations Command, but this page of links to the various components of SOCOM does not give a link to JSOC. It only describes it.

http://www.socom.mil/components/components.htm

If you needed a place to hide away a group of assassins for American interests, JSOC would be an ideal spot.

[peacetalksforall]

29. No, I don't buy your idea that it is JSOC. This is not what is being implied.

You're talking military.

Cheney would not use these people.

JSOC doesn't make sense - you just shared with us their long history and financial allocations-budgeting-planning, w-2s etc.

What we can guess that he needed was a combination of intelligence experience, mafia style killers, and secrecy-loyalty. According to the tidbit we were given, not even brass higher-ups knew about it.

They would have to have a certain turnover to keep from getting caught.

Perhaps this is how Blackwater originated and before they figured out what a money maker it could be if exposed to the light by taking on other 'duties'.

I want to know how he paid for his merry band of death.

Death, destruction, power and sneaking is his addiction.

No to JSOC.

[Bolo Boffin]

33. Hersh specifically mention JSOC is doing this.

Did you read the OP?

[peacetalksforall]

41. Yes, JSOC is special. Hersh refers to them. Let's wait and see whether something

called special is rather common comparatively. In the end.

I think JSOC was a way to not talk about what he intently or mistakenly referenced as a ring.

I think the most sinister of agendas is Cheney is running the show. JSOC sounds like the Boy Scouts in comparison.

I should not have written 'your'. You're right that Hersch said it, but why. There is no fit there.

[glinda]

262. Hersh put quit a bit of emphasis on them in the interview. Maybe some broke off

to become Blackwater.

[truedelphi]

31. I Know I Know that once again this will be me out in right field at

Tinfoil Hat Stadium - but

Andy Stephenson - contracts pancreatic cancer, immediately during/after his investigations into Stolen Election 2004. He died July 5th 2005.

The first two women who blew the whistle on Black Box voting (circa late 1970's) both victims of fast acting, fatal and rare cancers during their investigations.

Aaron Russo - produces documentary exposing the IRS, and the Federal Reserve, contracts cancer and died, (Aug 2008) within a year of the doc's release.

[Juche]

47. I don't put anything past this administration

And I am a huge opponent of the knee jerk 'rationalism' where people mindlessly reject any concept that is even mildly controversial or strange. Attitudes like that allow the wealthy and powerful to operate as they see fit, knowing the public and media will shout down anyone who tries to point out their behavior because it is too controversial and horrifying to be believed for many.

However for every person who has died in your list, there are still many many others who are doing the same thing and lived. Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting is alive. So are greg palast, david ray griffin, naomi klien, naomi wolf, Scott Ritter, etc. Most people who have pointed out voting fraud or problems with the fed and acts of this government are still alive and doing research and speaking tours. So I think those deaths may just be coincidence.

[truedelphi]

50. You say: "So I think those deaths may just be coincidence."

A huge part of me says that too. I mean cancer, even rare cancers, are rising exponentially throughout our society. And Stephenson was all too fond of his midnight Taco Bell runs - I used to cringe every time he'd mention having some friend of his go off to bring him back his late night snacks. The government says the aluminum, benzene and other metals in Coke and Pepsi are innocuous, but I have switched to tap water lately (Now neighbors are telling me the water source here as mercury in it! What's a person to do?)

On the other hand, having read some of the literature of current day Black op scenarios of our CIA, the agency needs to test certain phenomena to see how effective they are. Would they aim ELF, and EMF at Cheney? Or at us voting activists and dissidents?

[defendandprotect]

136. And you don't question . . . .

You say: "So I think those deaths may just be coincidence."
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 04:56 PM by truedelphi
A huge part of me says that too. I mean cancer, even rare cancers, are rising exponentially throughout our society.

the rising cancer rates?

Certainly we are being poisoned by pollution in our environment --

processed foods -- and food grown with pesticides which destroy nutrition --

but you must notice that we are creating new diseases and increasing cancer

rates without any increase in meaningful treatment.

Further, I think the best proof of the ability to use cancer as a weapon --

supposedly worked on by Judy Baker/Oswald/Ferrie/Ochner/Mary Sheridan in New Orleans

as an assassination weapon to be used again Castro . . . is the case of Jack Ruby.

Ruby repeatedly stated that he would be killed and it is recited that at the last

Ruby supposedly had a cold and a doctor came in and gave him a shot. And Ruby

pretty much said, "Well, that's it" -- And he did die of cancer.

Only problem is that the cancer -- and I'm not going to look this up to get it right --

was the type of cell which originates in the stomach, but it was found in his lungs.

Or vice versa. You'll find details on that story in High Treason I by Livingstone.

Probably also in Crossfire by Jim Marrs. Both books are probably in your library if

you're interested.

You can find the Oswald/Judy Baker story on YouTube --

Probably also something on Dr. Mary Sheridan.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/07/22/MN173141.DTL

[truedelphi]

156. This is all of great interest, Defend and protect

Thank you for the informationa nd I'll see if local bookstore will order the books.

[defendandprotect]

190. Go to your library . . .

and go to YouTube . . . faster and cheaper --

You can always buy books later ---

Not that I'm not highly recommending these books -- also High Treason 2

which should also be in your library. That has a very interesting

autopsy photo which shows JFK lying on a table and the continuing mystery

of his hair looking oddly wet/dry ... and behind him a room with a tiled wall

and in the area which lines up with his head, the tiles are misaligned --

plus the questioned area shows a telephone which others say were not in that

autopsy room. I'm not sure if it's a hospital room/autopsy room -- whatever.

In fact, I read that book long ago -- and just made a point of relooking at it

at the library a few days ago with plans to take it out again if I had time to

review it.

Right now Yahoo is screwing up my e-mail and have to try to go attend to that,

otherwise I'd look up some links for you at YouTube on Oswald/Baker --

TMWKK covers Baker to some degree. Later--

[flyarm]

158. Garrison brought up the cancer deaths in his closing agument in the Trial of the murder / JFK

eom

[defendandprotect]

192. Love Garrison . . .

And he was brilliant at breaking thru the myth --

Mae Brussel, also fantastic. I always go back to her. Though Jack Ruby cited

the people he had been working for and who had "framed" him into killing Oswald

as "Nazis" .... Brussel was the first I'm aware of to make those Nazi links.

Garrison was probably more aware of what Oswald/Ferrie were actually doing in

NO -- probably also re the "cancer" research --- but I don't recall reading

anything he may have said about that research. In the film "JFK," there are a

lot of comments made at the Ferrie death scene -- but I don't remember a specific

on linking Ferrie's animal research to cancer. Again, I'm sure Garrison knew ...


Also, the vaccines remain a large question --- Dr. Mary Sheridan -- See: Amazon.com/books

[flyarm]

246. watch the movie again..or read a copy of Garrisons closing argument..

he mentions cancer, car wrecks..

Garrison knew it all..of that I have no doubt..

Ferri's Paramilitary guerilla camp in Lacombe,LA, Banister, David Atlee Philips, Meyer Lansky, Oswald, Mike & Bill McLaney, Frank Sturgis..

That is why we must stop this shadow government ..now.

To think it no longer exists is naive and down right stupid.

[defendandprotect]

252. I own the movie so will watch it again at some point . . .

but what I was getting at is how much did he know about Mary Sheridan/Ochner/ochsner? --

Judy Baker and the research? I'm think he probably did know a lot about this, but who

would have believed it at the time? Well, I would have!

Garrison knew it all..of that I have no doubt..

I've read most of his books -- great mind! Also, he and Fletcher Prouty, another favorite

of mine, seem to have exchanged a lot of mail on the JFK/shadow government subject.

Ferri's Paramilitary guerilla camp in Lacombe,LA, Banister, David Atlee Philips, Meyer Lansky, Oswald, Mike & Bill McLaney, Frank Sturgis..

You know, JFK forced J. Edgar Hoover to shut that thing down -- I think they show that in the

movie.

Overall, totally agree with you --

Are you familiar with this . . . the investigation of computer voting by two journalists

in the late 1960's . . ??

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[1776Forever]

183. Read below about the cancer "breeder" David Ferrie from the JFK assassination -

The Mystery of David Ferrie
by John S. Craig

http://spot.acorn.net/JFKplace/09/fp.back_issues/05th_Issue/ferrie.html

Of the vast array of characters surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy, few are more mysterious and enigmatic than David William Ferrie of New Orleans. Before and after the assassination, Ferrie's life is full of mystery, strange activity, and puzzling behavior. Cuban exiles christened him the "master of intrigue." Jim Garrison, New Orleans D.A. during the sixties, called him a key figure in the assassination of the president and "one of history's most important individuals."

At the time of the assassination Ferrie was a forty-five year old New Orleans resident who was acquainted with some of the most notorious names linked to the assassination: Lee Oswald, Clay Shaw, Guy Banister, Jack Ruby, and Carlos Marcello. He possessed assorted talents and eccentricities. He was a pilot, and at one time a senior pilot with Eastern Airlines until he was fired........ He was also a hypnotist, a serious researcher of the origins of cancer, amateur psychologist, and a victim of a strange disease, alopecia, which made all of his body void of hair. Anti-Castro, anti-Kennedy, and anti-Communist, Ferrie was also a bishop of the Orthodox Old Catholic Church of North America. His odd lifestyle was embellished with an equally bizarre appearance featuring a red toupee and false eyebrows. Investigator and author Harrison Livingstone met Ferrie and remembered him as "an intense and sinister, cynical, disgusting, disheveled individual who was excited at the prospect of preying upon the vulnerable, the helpless, and the innocent."

(snip)

House Select Committee on Assassinations records released in 1993 revealed a flight plan (HSCA RG 233) dated April 8, 1963. The flight plan that details a pilot named Ferrie flying three passengers, Hidell, Lambert, and Diaz, from New Orleans to Garland, Texas. It is well known that Oswald used the alias of A.J. Hidell and more recently there is evidence that Clay Shaw, the subject of Jim Garrison's New Orleans investigation into the assassination, used an alias of Clay Bertrand and Lambert. An affidavit accompanying the HSCA RG 233 document claims that Georgian Edward J. Grinus stated in 1967 that one of Clay Shaw's aliases was Lambert. Several witnesses have maintained that Shaw and Ferrie were seen together at the New Orleans airport; speaking to each other in a limousine; together in Clinton, Louisiana; and at private parties and New Orleans bars.

(snip)

On the day of the assassination Ferrie was in a courtroom with Carlos Marcello. Marcello was found innocent of all charges brought against him by Robert Kennedy. Only hours after the shooting, Marcello attorney C. Wray Gill, visited Ferrie's home with unwanted news. Gill was telephoned by an unknown source in Dallas saying that Oswald's wallet contained a library card with Ferrie's name on it.

(snip)

Minutes after the assassination an search of the Dal-Tex Building, situated at Elm and Houston Streets and overlooking Dealey Plaza, yielded a man named Eugene Brading. Brading had recently had his name changed to Jim Braden. An elevator man had noticed a suspicious person using the freight elevator and called the police. The police detained Braden, who said he had taken the elevator to the third floor to find a telephone. The police released him, not knowing his real identity -- Eugene Brading, a convicted felon.

(snip)

On November 26, 1963 a Georgian businessman, Gene Summer, told the FBI that he was sure he saw Oswald accept money from a man he believed was the owner of the Town and Country restaurant in Louisiana. Hoover eventually ordered an investigation of the matter. The Town and Country restaurant was owned by Carlos Marcello. This was a place where Ferrie and Marcello often did business. The FBI questioned a Marcello employee, and Marcello's brother Anthony, concerning Gene Summer's testimony, but nothing came of the investigation.

Other FBI investigations at this time focused on New Orleans. The more agents investigated Ferrie's life the more links they found between Oswald and Ferrie. The relationship surely caused some suspicion in the FBI since they knew Ferrie had a verifiable relationship with Carlos Marcello, the well-known New Orleans underworld figure and hater of Robert Kennedy. Just when the investigation was yielding clearer links between all of these individuals, Director Hoover abruptly closed the investigation of Ferrie December 6, 1963, only two weeks after the assassination. None of the information the FBI collected concerning Ferrie was ever presented to the Warren Commission. David Belin, a former Warren Commission counsel, wrote a book in 1988, Final Disclosure, in which he defended the Warren Commission's findings that Oswald was the sole gunman. In his book, Belin never mentions David Ferrie.

(snip)

In February of 1967, New Orleans D.A. Jim Garrison announced that he was reopening the investigation into the president's assassination...........Garrison announced that one of his chief suspects was David Ferrie. He placed Ferrie in protective custody, accompanied by a bodyguard in a New Orleans hotel. Ferrie publicly scoffed at Garrison's allegations telling journalists that " . . . I have been pegged as the getaway pilot in an elaborate plot to kill Kennedy . . . " and that it was "fruitless to look for an accomplice of Oswald." On February 21, Ferrie was inexplicably released from protective custody before he had completely testified.

Ferrie was found dead in his apartment on February 22, 1967. He had left two typed notes that suggested suicide.

(snip)

Ferrie told Broshears that the assassins panicked and tried to fly non-stop to Mexico, but they crashed off the coast of Corpus Christi and perished. Broshears believes Ferrie was murdered. Ferrie told him "no matter what happens to me I won't commit suicide." On the other hand,Ferrie had often boasted that he knew of ways of killing people that could be mistaken for suicide.

(snip)

Transcripts of Ferrie's FBI interview have been buried in the National Archives. They were not turned over to the Warren Commission. Author John H. Davis, a Board of Advisors of the Assassination Archives and Research Center in Washington, D.C., has reported that a 30 page FBI report on Ferrie is missing from the National Archives.

..............

What a movie this story would make! Was it truth or fiction? Will we ever know the real truth?

There was a book written about this in 2007:

Dr. Mary's Monkey: How the Unsolved Murder of a Doctor, a Secret Laboratory in New Orleans and Cancer-causing Monkey Viruses are Linked to Lee Harvey Oswald, ... Assassination and Emerging Global Epidemics
by Edward T. Haslam (Author), Jim Marrs (Author)

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

193. I've read some of this info before . . .but ...

trying to review it now when time permits.

I recommend all of this info to anyone interested in how we've gotten

to where we are now -- !!

[1776Forever]

220. There is certainly a lot to go over! I had read about this before also but not in such detail.

The person who wrote about this seems to really know a lot about this issue. I recommend it also as it reads like a novel but it is all easy to verify!

It would make a fabulous movie based on this true-life figure. I would go to the movies to see it and I don't go that often!

[flyarm]

247. do read "BARRY AND THE BOYS"Daniel Hopsicker..

It is full of the info on the JFK assassination ..it is must reading for anyone to know where we have come from and how our government has evolved..and is still evolving.

[kimmerspixelated]

63. You might have something there.

[dbmk]

93. Aaron Russo. Have you seen that so called documentary?

Its a piece of highly subjective crap. I find it hard to believe that anyone would make much fuss over that.

[orbitalman]

149. America-Freedom to Fascism.com doc has been played 20 times

at least on a Denver PBS station. I ordered 50 copies to give out. What is so "subjective" about it?? I found it plenty objective especially with the experts interviewed.

[dbmk]

185. I have a lot of issues with it.

It raises a lot of interesting questions. And I was intrigued at the start of it.
But it quickly started getting on my logical nerves that it never bothers itself with providing the proof that it asks of others. Which leads into a lot of running in fallacious logical circles in the movie.

These pages goes into most of the detail I don't care to spell out here.
http://moebiusdick.blogspot.com/2006/10/america-from-freedom-to-fascism-part-1.html
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080227224753AAmo1eS
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#ratification

Basically the movie is based on a point of view that is not backed up legally, (and neither backed up by anything in the movie) that the 16th amendment was not ratified and that the government cannot impose income tax on the people. And anyone in the movie speaking against that point of view is refuted with the _opinion_ that the 16th amendment is not valid. Thats what I mean by subjective. There is no objective reasoning provided to back up the basis of the film. There is just a claim.

That does not mean that there are not some interesting points on how and why the the Federal Reserve came into being and what it does. But that does not make a good movie in itself.

And it certainly does not make me the least suspicious that anyone would want to assassinate the man behind it, as he is not saying anyting that a lot of other people aren't also saying publicly and debating all over the internet.
I doubt he was in possession of any further, and actual and factual, proof of something that would warrant his termination by people, for whom this would be a problem. Why would Cheney concern himself with this?

[defendandprotect]

194. Agree ---

[truedelphi]

164. That piece of crap switched the sturdy, "We are all for Bush"

Crowd here in Lake County over to the Ron Paul side of things.

The Repugs here lost 10% of their supporters to "That piece of crap"

When you create an equally effective piece of film., let me know.

[dbmk]

175. Rush Limbaugh is effective too. So is the Church of Scientology.

[defendandprotect]

195. And you're comparing Aaron Russo to Limbaugh and Scientology . . .???!!!

[dbmk]

215. Yeah, exactly. Thats precisely what I am doing.

Or maybe someone should tune their logic circuits a bit.

All I was saying was that being effective is not by any means the same as being right.

And libertarian nonsense, as that movie is, might be effective given the large amount of people with little skill for critical viewing and/or reflection.
Its still nonsense.

[defendandprotect]

250. And where is it that you think Russo was wrong . . . ???

Been a long time since I saw this tape, but as I recall it he spent

quite a bit of time talking about the Fed?

Maybe we should resusrect the tape and have another look at it here at DU?

I certainly don't see Russo as a "libertarian" . . . or anything like it.

Nor did I see any signs that he is a Repug neocon like Limbaugh.

Scientology is a secretive cult, masquerading now as a religion -- which took

quite some battering of government to accomplish that! Therefore, neither do

I see any comparison with Russo there, either!

Yes, Russo was effective and I think what he had to say needed to be said.

[CoffeeCat]

132. Yes, but how can you give someone cancer?

I wouldn't put anything past this
administration, but how could something
like that possibly be done?

[defendandprotect]

142. Very easily . . .

injection, for example --

See my post #50 above . . . sorry but some of my "tools" have disappeared . . .

edit/copy/paste -- address !!!

[truedelphi]

165. From what I have read, and some of this comes from

East European writers. it is possible to set up tones and Extremely Low Frequencies of radio and/or microwaves.

(As I write about this here, do not see me as advocating this or saying I believe it. I am saying,in a speculative manner, that there MAY be a benefit. Some health practitioners do swear by it. The Russians had entire programs devoted to using such waves to heal people. And some people claim that they have been cured.)

Often machines that emit such waves are designed and then are put to use by those in the alternate healing methods, whose patients have terminal cancers and other doctors won't touch them. (My husband and I use such a machine to help us relax and meditate.)

But if it is possible that such waves can cure cancer, at certain frequencies, and then certain types of tissues and organs are benefitted, than it makes sense that there would be other wave frequencies that could cause cancer.

If the CIA is interested in this, and it is my sense from what I read and think about, that the Dark Side of our government always entertains that there is some usefulness in much of what the Soviets were doing, then the CIA would need guinea pigs. Voting activists, environmentalists, etc would be ideal targets. We are not wanted or needed, or at least not by THEM. (I mean, Rumsfeld said that environmentalists and religious fanatics should be included in lists of terrorist suspects.)

[defendandprotect]

196. From what I've read . . .

the CIA is still tracking Nazi research.

In fact, in the early days Hitler had quite a health movement going . . .

and I've been trying to post something on their cancer research which I still

haven't gotten to.

You never have enough info or time to gather it --- or time to get it out to others!

But I'd highly recommend "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" by Jim Marrs ...

one of the more brilliant researchers and the guy who did "Crossfire" --

both books should be at your library.

[watrwefitinfor]

171. Think. How do they give cancer to lab rats? n/t

[CoffeeCat]

181. A rat is specifically in a cage...

...in a research lab--and then cancer is injected.

Other than feeding them pounds of saccharine, I'm not sure.

I'm obviously missing something.

[defendandprotect]

133. Agree with you and recent history shows it to not be far out thinking . . .

And, how little we probably know of the secret acts of criminal minds in government!

Who would have ever imagined lawyers like Gonzalez and Yoo -- and Ashcroft frightened

of them! -- and their attempts to TORTURE and overturn the Constitution!!!


David Ferrie was working on ways to transmit cancer -- supposedly to depose Castro

at the time ....

I think the best telling of that story is with Judy Baker/You Tube ---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ry3DrsN9PY&feature=PlayList&p=531A19482BE03FB6&index=0&playnext=1

It's a start on that story but elsewhere she goes into her own history of research and

how she is solicited and brought into this cancer research!

Here are some links to other parts of the story and overlapping.

http://drmarysmonkey.com/content/view/22/10003/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/07/22/MN173141.DTL

PS: I can do better than this, but I'm in a hurry and presume you probably know much

of this info.

[formercia]

42. I've worked and trained with JSOC troopies.

Most of them are pretty good guys. They were a lot of fun to work with. We would play pranks on each other just to keep alert.
JSOC in itself is not a bad bunch. It just depends on who's giving the orders and scheming.

[Bolo Boffin]

43. Ah, good, someone with experience with them

In your experience, did the military's description of them hold true? Were they strictly about coordination of cross-training exercises and the like?

[formercia]

46. They did inter-agency work, yes.

I was a member of the Incident Response Team and we had a JSOC component assigned to us. I think of them as liaison with the military with special security clearances. Perhaps that has changed since Bush gang took control.

I do think this deserves investigation. No telling what devious operations Cheney might have come up with.

[truebrit71]

14. Bloody hell!!!

..We need to know the FULL extent of their crimes...

[HardWorkingDem]

15. Even though Hersh uses the word "Domestic" recall...

Bob Woodward has already referred to something like this some time ago. My on belief is this did not go on in the US, but overseas and most likely in Iraq.

[tekisui]

16. knr!~ We are lucky to have survived those criminals.

[rhett o rick]

204. We haven't. Just because they steeped down doesn't mean their masters aren't still running

things. I believe there is a international/corporate cabal running Cheney and Bush. When they got too hot, time for a change. They are still out there. Keep your eyes on Jeb Bush. The death squads were most likely not run out of the CIA, but another organization. Why didn't the Democrats do anything for eight years? The anthrax attacks scared the hell out of them.

[City Lights]

17. Dick Cheney is the root of all evil. nt

[NNN0LHI]

18. I kind of figured Cheney was in direct control of the Iraqi death squads

Looks like I was right.

Bet Chalabi was his man in Baghdad.

Don

[me b zola]

19. K&R

[State the Obvious]

20. Do you think this "executive assassination ring" wants Hersh's book to be released?

Please be safe, Mr. Hersh. :scared:

[enough]

21. While you're waiting for Hersh to write the book, read LEGACY OF ASHES,

a recent history of the CIA by Tim Weiner. Using recently declassified CIA documents, and spelling it out in detail, this book makes it clear that the sort of thing Hersh is referring to has been going on for decades.

[Gregorian]

24. Dr. Kelly. That's when I suspected something like this was going on.

It would also explain Speaker Pelosi's behavior.

Now even our deepest concerns are seeing the light of day. We barely dared to suspect something this sinister.

[Raksha]

44. You are so right!

Re It would also explain Speaker Pelosi's behavior.

It would definitely explain her behavior, and it's something I've suspected for a long time...as we all have.

[vinylsolution]

25. Cheney is a murder machine....

Consider the strange deaths of Bruce Ivins, Hunter S Thompson, Jean Palfrey, Paul Wellstone, Dr David Kelly, and not forgetting the attempted (anthrax) murders of Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle.

It's common knowledge that Cheney was on Jean Palfrey's list of 'clients'.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

45. Hunter Thompson

He killed himself. No mystery there. He did it over the phone so his wife could hear it, with his son and grandson in the next room.

I can only assume the man was out of his mind when he did it. But, to ascribe some kind of conspiracy to Thompson's death is just "out there."

[kimmerspixelated]

67. Not so sure about the Hunter Thompson mystery...

Why would one kill themselves with a silencer? You'd have to be totally out of your mind, and one selfish SOB to blast yourself with kids in the house. Wasn't Thompson writing something very expository regarding Sept.11 with a MIHOP theme?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

73. I never read that, about a silencer........

There's no indication that the gun had a silencer attached. You might have read that his wife heard "a muffled sound" over the phone. But, no, he just used a gun. Nothing fancy. One in the head.

The truth is that HST hadn't written anything for a very long time. Part of his depression that led to his suicide was that he'd lost his writing game. And, yes, he was a selfish bastard. I loved some of what he wrote, but in his real life, he was not a nice person. Not hardly. I lived in Aspen when he ran for mayor, and the consensus was that he was a fun guy, but a real asshole. A spectacular misogynist, that was HST.

When he died, he was broke - Johnny Depp picked up the tab for the memorial service - and he couldn't write. His health was failing, and he decided, I guess, that he wanted out.

His suicide was just a sad ending to a wasted life, but there was no conspiracy. None.

[kimmerspixelated]

74. Interesting.

Maybe. But, yes, JDepp was a great friend of Thompson. He lived in his basement before shooting F and L in Las Vegas.

[Botany]

88. HST killed himself

he was in very poor healt.

[bottomtheweaver]

154. At this point I'm wondering if H'way really killed himself.

He had some Cuba connections and died shortly after the revolution.. just speculating.. but Thompson? Not a chance.

[glinda]

263. And then there was Molly Ivans and that other Texan woman who also spoke out

over Bush. Didn't they die about the same time?

[pleah]

26. K&R

Doesn't surprise me. More crimes to add to the list.

[Marr]

27. Does anyone even doubt that Cheney would use this domestically as well?

I certainly don't.

[L. Coyote]

143. They had a legal brief that allowed military operations in the USA. The briefs and orders all mesh.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. but this is just a conspiracy theory, right?

...right?....

:scared:

[Solly Mack]

30. K&R

[Raksha]

32. NOOOOOO!!! I so desperately want someone to tell me this isn't true...

but in my heart I know it is true. It's just horrible enough to be true. I'd believe anything about the BFEE. ANYTHING!!!

[lala_rawraw]

232. right now...

we don't know exactly what he means because he did not give details... so to relax, take a deep breath. we know some things relating to these allegations are true: MEK, other terrorist groups used as proxies to start conflict and assassinate people. That lends support for his statements, but again, he did not tell us or me (i contacted him last night about this) specifics. so all we have is speculation right now and it can get frightening very quickly. just buckle up... one way or another Hersh will get the details out and then we will know just what this means:))

[nichomachus]

37. I'm not sure what the surprise is

The corporations/CIA cabal has been assassinating people for decades all over the world and inside the US. This is an old story.

[Echo In Light]

40. Whether the book is written or not, it won't matter. No one would ever be held accountable

[annabanana]

48. It will at least be on the record.

(for those that care to look)

[libodem]

52. Every day that monster is a free man

is another day in hell for the rest of us. I'm not the least bit surprised. In fact it just confirms my suspicions.

[marmar]

53. Wouldn't be a shock.....the man was pure evil.

:evilfrown:

[natrat]

54. the wellstone family, rip

[truedelphi]

59. Yes, and RIP to their staff. And the two pilots.

A massacre, and then for good measure, the RW media tromped all over Wellstone's funeral and wake.

[ToolTex]

55. Don't put it all at the feet of Cheney. We know that 41 was at the School Book

Depository on 22 November 1963. And that 12 years and 2 months later 41 was D/CIA. It goes back at least to Babb's father-in-law, and the Dulles brothers, (and their first cousin Ruth Payne).

(But who could blame poor Dickhead for cavorting with whores, have you ever watched and listened to Lynn? And that suggestion of impropriety of dick buying a house next to the Office in Langley; we know he likes inhaling the fumes from large parking lots. All that expensive burned fuel warms his artificially run heart).

[kimmerspixelated]

68. Right on about the Kennedy connection.

It's hard not to think 41 was not involved.

[rhett o rick]

211. I believe it is much bigger than Cheney. nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. White card team.... interesting.... not surprising

part of the tools of the state

Oh wait, we are told that none of this happened by some folks on this board, and that we are imagining it

Oh and by the way... if any of you thinks the team is gone, or disbanded... officially perhaps... not really

[Octafish]

65. Puts Plame Affair in a new, eh, "light."

The turd Cheney played the satanic lord mighty with her family, too.

[sabra]

66. More Plame revelations: Received IRS audit in 2005 - Structural bolts from deck were removed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2107916


<snip>

But when her husband angered the Bush administration by criticizing the war in Iraq, and she was "outed," it was tough. Wilson writes that the stress she and her husband faced almost ended their marriage. They were financially devastated when his consulting business dried up.

And scary things began to happen - scarier than being called names in the paper. She worried that al Qaeda might target her family. She got death threats and crank calls. She gives no details, but her former colleague, Larry Johnson, writes on his blog, NoQuarterUSA "in 2004 the FBI received intelligence that Al Qaeda hit teams were enroute to the United States to kill Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Valerie Plame."

Wilson knew about the threat. Yet the CIA turned down her request for security for her children. She taught her nanny counter-surveillance techniques herself.

In her book, "FAIR GAME: MY LIFE AS A SPY, MY BETRAYAL BY THE WHITE HOUSE" (Read a Book Excerpt here) she also recounts being audited by the IRS in 2005 for the first time in her life, and the mysterious but alarming discovery that the structural bolts that had connected her elevated deck to the back of her house were all missing, one year after it was completely renovated.

She also believes the CIA went after her book more aggressively than the books of other ex-spies. Roughly 10% of it is "redacted" - here on page 50 and 51, all you can see are the periods. We'll probably never know what she wanted to tell us on that page, or many more.

[kimmerspixelated]

70. Your post definitely convinces me

what I suspected all along, and that is the Bush admin. was run by a bunch of mafiosos!
SO, now the question is, when to prosecute-I say sic Fitzgerald on the situation, and make sure Obama knows so he can clean house!

[lala_rawraw]

102. boy i cannot wait until it finally comes out what the Bush admin did to

journalists... you guys will finally understand just where we have been living for the last 8 years

[CoffeeCat]

134. How will that come out?

It would have to be a journalist, standing up and revealing when henchmen they are.

It looks as if the media is still kow towing to the neocons.

Who will stand up? I don't see anyone with courage or a spine.

[lala_rawraw]

179. not all of it spine/courage quetion

some of it is legal

[defendandprotect]

199. Yes . . . I was just going to comment on the irony of expecting journalists

to be able to both report on the attacks on them and survive them ---

but, amazingly, I'm sure I've expected that!!!

We've had such evidence of courage in journalism historically, that somehow

my faith in their ability to "let us know" what is really going on continues,

though the evidence of the brutal and deadly attacks on them are undeniable!!

[lala_rawraw]

233. some

friends know... some other journos have discussed among themselves. not for public yet, various reasons. in my case, legal... cannot talk about this yet:( but believe me... i cannot wait until i can!!!

[defendandprotect]

234. We need Congress to investigate the attacks on journalists . . .

and to overturn the Pentagon rulings on what seems to be actually ending

any coverage by the free press of their warmongering and warmaking!!!

[lala_rawraw]

238. i agree...

but my lips are tied:( not by my own choice. i can tell you that in my case, the FBI has been remarkable in addressing this. beyond that, cannot say:(

[azul]

153. This was the warning in 2000. The unofficial biographer's un-story:

Democracy Now! Premieres the Full Interview with Bush Biographer J.H. Hatfield Who Died 2 Years Ago of an Alleged Suicide Amidst Controversy Over his Book Fortunate Son

Today we play an interview that we have held for over three years. It involves allegations of President Bush, drugs, obstruction of justice and corporate scandal. It raises questions about why Bush’s driver license number was changed.

In the book Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President author J.H. Hatfield charges that President Bush was arrested in 1972 for cocaine possession and that Bush’s father George Sr. used his political connections to have his son’s record expunged.

http://www.democracynow.org/2003/8/11/democracy_now_premieres_the_full_interview

[defendandprotect]

200. And it wasn't so long ago that Amy Goodman was arrested ....

handcuffed, shoved around --- !!!

Thank you for the link -- I'll save it and hope to listen to it tonight.

There is only one way that the right can come to power and that's by political

assassination -- I'd include journalists in "political assassinations."

Of course, you also have to included propaganda, lies and election steals!!

As Hitler came, so too did these criminals arise ---

[harun]

201. Agree, there were conference calls with execs of MSM with Condi

that were well publicized. I have always felt that is when the command was given to them on how they needed to report and we have been in a world of MSM crap propaganda ever since.

[defendandprotect]

145. Sad, but good to know . . . more evidence of hit teams working in US . . .

I recall something about these hit teams -- I think it goes back before Bush/Cheney --

sounds like they renamed it? And probably made more aggressive use of it.

None of it should stand, by any means!

Imagine the stress that the Plame/Wilson family were under ---

and I'm sure it's just "coincidence" that bolts just came flying out of their

connections from deck to house!!!

I'll have to look for her book --- I didn't have time to look at it when it came out.

Thanks --

[kimmerspixelated]

69. Good point!

[H2O Man]

81. Add the neocon/AIPAC espionage

case to Plame. Also, as I'm sure that you already know, if details of this program are released, it will show that there was a fair amount of "sub-contracting" going on.

[Me.]

123. Not That We All Couldn't 'Guess'

at the depth of dirty doings going on. This to jaded me is pretty shocking, even beyond Plame, and I can't help wondering what else will be coming to light. Oh and I'd love to see that miscreant Fleischer spin this.

[4lbs]

75. I remember Bob Woodward being interviewed on CNN's Larry King Live back in November.

He mentioned that plenty of people involved with the Bush Administration told both him and his colleague Seymour Hersh to wait until after Jan 20. Then they would get a mountain, a flood of information of all the crap that happened over the past 8 years.

Looks like this book and some other things are the beginning of that.

[Spazito]

76. Wow! Now that is one book I am going to buy!

Mr. Hersh is very thorough and there have to be some people starting to crap their pants knowing he is and has been investigating this.


Very interesting OP, thanks for this!

Recommended.

[Pavulon]

77. Right after the iran oil bourse attack..(nt)

[Ex Lurker]

80. Clarification: The JSOC is not an "assassination wing."

it's a joint command of the US military that has several thousand members, and you can find it on any organizational table of the Defense Department. What Mr Hersh is saying may well be true--but the group he speaks of is not the JSOC.

[Aviation Pro]

103. Thank you.....

....there is so much bullshit that floats around about USSOCOM it's astounding.

[Vinnie From Indy]

82. That there are people in America that have used the US Govt.

to further their personal fortunes using any means necessary is not news. The group that runs with BushCo. make the Sicilian mafia look like kids with a lemonade stand in regard to the scale of their criminal endeavours. The American WASP Mafia is alive and well.

[Gman]

83. I never could believe this was not going on

considering who all the players are including Negroponte being the Iraq ambassador. All the Iran-Contra players were in place and this was SOP for all of them. I'm frankly not a bit surprised that this was going on, nor am I surprised they reported exclusively to Cheney. That was likely to give Bush credible deniability as it is clearly an impeachable offense.

Now the real questions: Did they do Cliff Baxter? Did they do Paul Wellstone? Did they do the IT guy that knew all about Ohio in 2004? Who did they do?

[Uncle Joe]

84. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, sabra.

[santamargarita]

86. I'm not surprised at anything this stumpy little shit is involved in...

Remember what he was doing during 911?

[DUlover2909]

87. Tom Clancy's The Teeth of the Tiger

That assassination stuff is what that book is all about.

[JohnWxy]

89. bookmarked, Recommended!

[valerief]

91. Wow, I thought he wore a Get Smart/James Bond type ring on his finger that he could

use to aim and kill. Black onyx. Black like his heart.

[Seldona]

96. I can't wait for the article/book.

With empirical data to back it up, this could be what does the *Bush Junta in. Did they really think these KGB like tactics were going to win hearts and minds and make this country safer? Or were there other agendas at play?

This investigation shouldn't be done by Hersh imo. It should be done a special prosecutor with full subpoena powers.

[KT2000]

106. Like Fitzgerald?

That would not get very far. And who knows what he ran into.

[Seldona]

135. I am sure we can fing someone a bit more effective.

Believe me, I understand the reservations. But assassination squads? Jesus!

[HowHasItComeToThis]

148. YOU ALL PUT TOO MUCH TRUST IN FITZGERALD

[KT2000]

166. Not me!!

I believe he caved.

[byeya]

170. I agree; I think Fitz has acted to minimize the number of

indictments of republikkkans while going after Democrats. Blago isn't - wasn't - so hot but where's the indictment? Fitz asks for extensions after elements of his investigation are printed in the republican Chicago press. I think he's toxic: stay away.
And: Why is he still on the payroll anyway?

[Ilsa]

98. David Kelley!!! That British PhD who was involved in the WMD issue...

and the memo about it?

(Edited my reply over trying to work out his name.)

Here's a top ten list of scientists that have "committed suicide", most of which died long ago, so they are unrelated ot this subject:
http://listverse.com/people/top-10-scientists-who-committed-suicide/

[omega minimo]

124. took a walk and never came home.........

[winyanstaz]

99. Mr. Semour Hersh

I suggest Mr. Semour make several copies of his book and put them in safe places in case anything happens to him and that he stays out of small planes until after the book comes out.

[Generator]

104. I can dream that someday they will tie Cheney's ass

to 9.11. Because apparently ONLY THAT-you know orchestrating the direct deaths of innocent Americans on American soil would be enough to get justice for this cretin and all his helpers. And everything you find out more about him and his cabal leads you to think they planned the whole damn thing. EXCUSE me let it happen. I know, they just used it. Anything else is "crazy' talk. Like this whole op. My favorite part is-"they report to no one except cha ching-Cheney!" Well there you go.

But what would they have done with no 9/11? WHAT? IT was the crux of everything.

[earth mom]

146. Exactly! 9/11 is the key to all of the * & Cheney crimes

Which is why the subject of 9/11 should NOT be locked in the DU dungeon to be kicked around by idiots who bought the OCT & defend it as if their lives depend upon it.

And make no mistake, * & Cheney will continue to walk free if no one nails them on 9/11 and they know it. :argh:

[wiggs]

110. The stuff we hear about, the public stuff, is the tip of the iceberg. And the tip

of the iceberg is bad enough!

[defendandprotect]

147. Yes, I think that's correct . . .

[DaLittle Kitty]

111. Why Should Anyone Be Surprised?

Ask the DC Madam's Mother about such things... :think: American Fascism on the march!

[Bluebear]

113. So?????

--- Dick Cheney

[liberal N proud]

115. The stuff movies are made of in real life

I can't imagine the lives those people must live and the brainwashing that must have taken place for them to continue to live like that.

[Baikonour]

120. Hersh better get this all out in a book before he's "suicided." n/t

[bottomtheweaver]

122. Pat Tillman? David Halberstam? Arthur Schlesinger Jr?

So unfortunate...

[glinda]

264. Pat Tillman thing bothered me. I thought no accident.

[unkachuck]

127. K&R....n/t

[bottomtheweaver]

144. Gary Webb (August 31, 1955 - December 10, 2004) :

Webb, Gary (1998). Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb

But he was depressed..

[EmeraldCityGrl]

151. They're going down.

It all seemed too much to hope for, but Seymour Hersh always gets it right.

[BobTheSubgenius]

157. Does this come as ANY surprise to ANYONE?

Quite the opposite, I'm sure.

[harun]

202. Not to anyone on DU I wouldn't think.

[GreenTea]

162. They certainly go rid of a strong anti Iraq invasion voice in Wellstone & got republican Coleman

elected instead. Fucking assassins!

[democrat2thecore]

163. Department of Justice?

There should be some agents talking to Hersh - pronto! This is not the kind of thing you wait until the book comes out.

[glitch]

187. There is probably a line at his door.

His home probably has its own call center, with people on hold for x number of days, they will be responded to in the order of their call.

[Loudmxr]

167. Yes the first thing I thought of was Pat Tilman. Still too many loose strings to tie up.

Really. Died in battle. oops . Friendly fire from afar. oops Three up close bullets to the head,
So the person who killed Pat Tilman knows it, or in best case scenario suspects that he killed him,

So how did things get so weird after that?? :smoke:

[rambler_american]

169. Collateral deaths?

McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths

Would that include other passengers on the planes?

[Blue_Tires]

173. wait..... WHAT?!?

[progressoid]

180. Uh,,,,yeah? We've been doing this for decades.

Not that I don't need another reason to despise Cheney but this has happened under all administrations

[sattahipdeep]

182. Beverly Eckert?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWmjPiJyzds


McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths.

[defendandprotect]

235. For some reason, I don't recall hearing of ....

Beverly Eckert in connection to 9/11 -- but notice that HRC said she was mainly

responsible for the creation of the Commission.

Who is "McRaven" . . . ??? if I may ask?

And was Eckert involved with the other 9/11 widows or was she working on her own?


PS: I must have really been way behind on info because I see that Eckert co-chaired

the 9/11 Commission Steering Committee!!!

And she was expressing deep concern re Guantanamo -- evidently to Pres. Obama!!

What a tragic loss!!! Leadership just keeps getting eliminated somehow in America!!!

[sattahipdeep]

244. Jersey girls

The "Jersey girls"--Patty Cassazza, Mindy Kleinberg, Lorie Van Auken, and Monica Gabrielle, who prefer to be known as the September 11th Advocates-- put out a statement:

"We were shocked and deeply saddened by the news of the sudden death of our friend and fellow activist, Beverly Eckert. We offer our sincere condolences to her family. She will truly be missed.''

Get this....Beverly Eckert had brought her own letter along, which concerned the 9/11 Families for the WMD Commission, which was just information. I think they had just finished forming this committee to support the work of the WMD Commission.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/17/beverly_eckert_1951_2009_9_11


The 'Jersey Girls' Speak Out

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/182598/815893

[defendandprotect]

249. Thank you -- and I did actually read the transcript . . .

and noted that Eckert did bring her own letter ---

Wow . . .

well, I did know about all the other women but somehow missed Eckert!

So, thank you!

And, happy to see that they are after closing of Guantanamo and WMD worldwide!

[OwnedByFerrets]

189. Thom Hartmann just mentioned

Ken Lay as a possibility. He is running an entire segment on the subject. This is HUGH!!!!

[Bozita]

197. The 2nd hour of Thom's show today is about one topic: Sy Hersh.

[ooglymoogly]

203. What happens when bombshells fall ever other day

and there is no media there to broadcast the mayhem and destruction.

[rhett o rick]

205. Anyone making a list of all the suspicious deaths related to Cheney? nm

[lala_rawraw]

231. David Kelly

That is the one death that for me comes to mind. There is some tie in via the Iraq war whistle-blowing and Judith Miller. Mostly though, the assassinations took place - the ones I am aware of - abroad, in Iran, targeting local government - low levels. At the time I last reported on this, 22 people were killed, none of them known to anyone outside of Iran and only in government circles.

[rhett o rick]

210. Collateral Deaths? How about the innocent victims of the antrax attack? Not that

Leahy and Daschle arent innocent.

[rhett o rick]

213. How about the lives/careers destroyed but not killed?

Like Dan Rather, Elliot Spitzer, Don Seigleman, Val Plame,

[defendandprotect]

236. Yes . . . that is important to be thinking about . . .

Extreme damage done to Sieglemann, Plame ---

Spitzer and Rather can more easily survive the career and financial harm ...

but IMO it's a loss for the public, as well.

[rhett o rick]

221. Hell we can't even get Libby in prison or Delay or Rove. What hope do we have that

Cheney will be prosecuted?

[sattahipdeep]

222. Why did she have to die?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPb8-zUYp0c

what she asked Obama?

[defendandprotect]

237. Presume they will do something to free Libby . ..

I don't think they'd want him spilling his guts on Cheney !!

[sattahipdeep]

223. Working to bring the TRUTH to Humankind.

Paul Wellstone
John Connell
Beverly Eckert

[sattahipdeep]

224. "MY SILENCE CANNOT BE BOUGHT." Beverly Eckert_N/T

[sattahipdeep]

225. She was assassinated. Simple as that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuPGbqX-hA4


WE'LL REMEMBER! :patriot: