How many languages am I expected to know how to speak?

[mentalsolstice]

I live in a southern city that has seen the population of Mexican immigrants explode in the past 10-20 years. As a result all utilities, public services, and many mortgage lenders, Dr.s, lawyers, landlords, churches, car dealerships, etc., have started to provided services in Spanish. All of our ATMs and debit card machines provide a Spanish option, as do most local call centers.

Having grown up in south Florida, I'm used to everything being offered in two or more languages. Thus, I've been interested in observing the change here. At first a bunch of local rubes were angry and would protest outside of businesses that advertised their ability to provide services in Spanish. :shrug: Happily, most of the outrage has since died off.

My husband and I often do business with contractors, wait-staff and such who can speak little to no English. We make the best of it with Spanglish and sign language, and everything generally works out. On the upside, my primitive Spanish-speaking skills learned from high school have re-emerged and have improved (muy, muy poco).

On the other hand, many Hispanic employers here expect their staff to eventually learn basic English. One waitress we knew was let go and had to go back to Mexico because she didn't/couldn't learn a lick of English in the 2 years she was here. The owners, who are good friends of ours, were tired of drink and food orders being thrown away.

I so greatly appreciate the way many businesses here have embraced our new Hispanic community. I know many Hispanics who speak English very well, however, I respect their desire to conduct complicated business matters, such as negotiating a home or car purchase, in their first language.

Having said all of this, if I'm dealing with an American-based company, I would like to do business with someone who speaks clear English. For that matter any business that requires the divulging of confidential info such as account numbers, SSN, etc., I want to do it in understandable English, not because I mistrust the CSR, I just want to avoid confusion, late fees, misplaced info, etc., later on.

As to people here who cry racism, or growl that I should "learn the language/accent", I want to know how many languages/accents I'm supposed to know. Back when I was growing up, learning Spanish seemed to be a pretty good bet. But now it seems I should know Hindi, or English with a thick Hindi accent. And I see many high schools and colleges scrambling for instructors in Mandarin Chinese. Am I expected to know that too?

[ReliantJ]

1. Que?

[mentalsolstice]

16. My further thoughts from another discussion

We Americans are doing increasing business with American-based businesses which have services, such as call centers, based in other countries. I've noticed here at DU different tolerance levels for being able to do business with corporate reps who speak English as a second language. I have lived with and done business with people from many different parts of the world. For example, I have lived in communities with good-sized Hispanic populations. So my ears are used to hearing Spanish, or English with a heavy accent (which can differ depending of whether a person was from Cuba, Mexico, or whatever).

I've also lived with roommates from Taiwan who spoke very little English. What English they did speak was accented differently from people I've known from China, Japan, Viet Nam, etc.

Now, I find myself dealing with CSRs from India, South America and other parts of the world, and oftentimes find myself straining to understand and making myself understood. Outsourcing jobs, isn't the issue here. It's how do we, as Americans with differing language skills, cope with increasing globalism. I wish my language skills were broader, but at age 48 it's doubtful I'm going to learn much more than I already have. Therefore I sometimes find myself outside of my comfort zone when transacting complicated or confidential business with someone who does not speak understandable English. I also respect that many people who don't speak English as a first language are likewise uncomfortable when living here or doing business with us (hah, with all of our different accents, I get confused).

This has been a hot topic here at DU, from dealing with bank CSRs, to medical professionals that speak ESL with different capabilities and accents. DUers seem to have different tolerance levels, from some being slightly uncomfortable to others accusing xenophobia. Is there, or can there be a happy middle ground?

[customerserviceguy]

2. I've long wondered

if offering Spanish-language everything tends to keep Latino people "ghettoized" into not learning English, and maintaining the second-class way a lot of Anglos regard them.

[ReliantJ]

3. Well, I can tell you this

I got a C in spanish class and quit trying to learn. I guess it didnt work

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Not from trends with other immigrant groups

Italians first gen didn't at times speak a lick of English and many immigrant Jews spoke Ydish and stuck to the community

Beyond the Klezmer revival or the occasional Italian ... how much of that you hear?

The great Ydish and Italian papers are gone... the same will happen with this new group

Hell, I'm willing to bet their kids will refuse to speak it... we see it more or less with my nieces and nephews and the grandkids may pick it up again as something you do as pride, see the Klesmatics

[customerserviceguy]

9. All I know is what my mother told me about her upbringing in the Chicago area

Her father and her aunts spoke Polish among themselves, but they insisted that my Mom and her siblings absolutely used English even in the house. Polish people had enough trouble fitting in back in the first half of the 20th Century, and Gramps wanted to make sure that his children would succeed in America.

He died while I was still a small child, from the stories of his life, I wish I'd had a chance to know him better. One story Mom tells is how as a union leader in the Gary steel mills, he would always fight for the rights of the black workers, even though it was unpopular among his fellow Eastern Europeans. When he had to have an operation for colon cancer, and the call for blood donations went out, that morning there were several dozen black men lined up at the Catholic hospital where Gramps was being treated. The first man in line, "Big Willie", said to the nun, "Will you take my blood, even though I'm not white?" Sister answered, "All blood is red, we don't care what color the person who gives it is." By the end of the day, over two hundred black men from the plant had donated blood, not a single white man did.

My parents always did everything they could to stamp out any signs of the surrounding racism that my brother, sister, or I would come home with from the neighborhood.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. That is so cool, and a story to truly cherish

Now we have tried to keep talking to the nephews in Spanish, my sis and I, but the kids refuse to

Mostly, our view is they need to know more than language, why? I am fluent in the following (in order)

Spanish
Hebrew
English
American

(Yes there is enough difference in the language and construction... towards-toward, Harbour, harbor... and so it goes)

And can dabble in some German and Yidish...

In a world economy being poli-lingual will be critical... and I fear Muricans will be left behind because we are naturally resistant

[customerserviceguy]

41. Yiddish is such an expressive language

I learned some of it while I was a teenager in the Northwest, one of my friends was Jewish (very few people of that faith outside of the major cities in the PNW), and we used to steal his parents' comedy albums from their bedroom. There were all the Borscht Belt comics, and they'd lapse into Yiddish terms, which I'd have to get a definition for. (Me: "What's a putz?")

It came in handy when I moved to NY a couple of years ago, my new neighbors find it fascinating that a Western guy knows that a putz and a schmuck are the same thing!

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Ah, yes, shmuck and putz...

and other things... like the bubbe and the meidelej...

It is expressive and has so many elements of so many eastern european languages

And a very rich literature

I still remember readying Teivey de Milhiker, Fiddler on the Roof, in school. Fascinating book, and I wish people knew that there is more than just a play or a good movie

That shtettl is what modern Jews at times long for...

[dustbunnie]

51. It's a blessing on the gansah mishpucheh -

when the children keep up the languages of their elders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. It is but kids are pressured by the larger society not to

even in a Jewish school, which is damn scary

Public I get it... but these kids are not going to your public school

(Grand parents truly, and for them to develop an identity)

But even in a private school... they are pressured to NOT speak Spanish

Now hebrew, more or less...

And don't get me started on the good dosage of religion

All I can say is oy vey shmeer

[Marrah_G]

19. I am positive I am going to get flamed for this:

I get phone calls from a really wide variety of immigrants here in New England. We have people from all over the world coming to college here and then staying on. Some of the accents are tough and some you can tell are really new to the language, but we work through the conversation somehow. The only people who ever ask for their own language are spanish speaking callers. About 1/3 of them hang up when I tell them we don't have anyone who speaks spanish in the office.

So I think in some areas, where an immigrant can live their whole lives without learning english, you do find people left at a disadvantage. Non- english speakers make less money in the long run and have less opportunity outside of their community. I think you are also correct in thinking people stereotype people who have not learned the language.

I am a proponent of free and available ESL classes for anyone who wants them.

[old mark]

86. Of course I agree with you abouththe ESL classes. My grandmother

and my father emigrated from Germany in 1919, and learned English and became US citizens. My grandmother remained in contact with a large group of people who had also come to the US from her area, and spoke German with them, but she realized that English fluency meant better access to what ever could be had in America.

If you think about it, no matter how fucked up we think this country is, there are always people coming from somewhere else who think it's much better than what they left behind.

mark

[liberalhistorian]

57. My high school Spanish teacher was

from Puerto Rico and she used to think that. It drove her nuts to see Hispanics and Puerto Ricans all congregating in one area and never intermingling with other groups or even attempting to learn English. She'd tell them to "hang out with Americans and learn English", trying to make it clear that they didn't have to give up their language or culture or groups in order to do so but that they should at least learn the language and customs of the nation they'd chosen to be a part of (and I totally agree with that). She was always amazed and angry at how hostile they'd be. And this was twenty-seven years ago.

Of course, she was also disgusted at how little stock Americans put in learning another language, even on a rudimentary level, and she had, and has, a valid point. Part of the problem is our geography. In Europe, the nations are close together and bilingualism is a cultural norm. But we're more isolated geographically and have been able to get away with not knowing any other languages for most of our history.

[Hardrada]

4. I couldn't agree more.

I'd be in great shape if we had lost World War II or if Vatican 2 hadn't happened since I know German and Latin. Anyway, when I've been in Europe, I haven't noticed
people have had a hard time learning English. English is more or less a universal language now.

[Diclotican]

24. Hardrada

Hardrada

Why most european sees to understand english, is maybe because most european are learning english from a young age. And that english is everywhere.. As in most movies, where Hollywood have maybe 80-90 percent of the marked... It is expensive to dub everything to all the language we have in Europe, so it is far more easy to learn the same language all over.. And after the war, english have been the "language" over all.. So you can find english speaking people from Great Britain, to Russia.. Even that German are used many places in eastern europe too..

But off course, you can find many who is rather bad in english too, so it goes both ways, it depend of the use of english, and also how long you have been teatch it at school... I for one admire some kids, who sees to learn and speak english, far better than I manage to do even that they are younger than I have.. I have a very clear accent when speaking english...

Diclotican

[Hardrada]

48. I can understand what it's like being exposed to another language

at a young age. I grew up in a Norwegian-speaking household (I was raised by my
grandparents for whom English was a second language). I therefore learned English as though it were a second language too since the English my grandparents spoke was acquired and academic. So I never grew up speaking the ungrammatical common American idiom. I also have a faint Norse accent. I can read Norwegian and Danish to some extent since I spent a summer teaching myself bokmal though I need a refresher course. My great uncles used to mimic dialects from different parts of Norway (they were Vossings and Sognings) and it was quite funny even when I didn't understand all they said.

I know German is commonly spoken in eastern Europe. The people I've met from Albania or Macedonia all can speak German. I suppose because those were once close to Austria-Hungary.

[Diclotican]

49. Hardrada

Hardrada

You was raised by your grandparents who was Norwegian;) For many Norwegian, english is the second language, and as you point out, the english you learn as the second language tend to be little more academic than native language.. You still have a faint norse accent too,), Cool, not many american who have that strait.. And you can also read Norwegian and danish to some extent, because you learned bokmål. That alone is amazing, because to learn Norwegian, and therefore danish is no easy task itself when you are english speaking. It is some difference between the speaking language and the written language.. And specially between danish and Norwegian speaking language.. Most danish have problems with Norwegian, because they tend to believe that we are swedish... And off course we are not swedish;)... If you don't use the language, off course you will need a refresher course, that is the way things are.. But I would guess you will get up to speed very fast. What you learn as a child, you never forgot even if you are an old person..
He he, Vossa and Sogning is not easy to understand, even for us who are living in Norway.. So I would guess it is pretty funny for you who doesn't understand it all. It must have been interesting for you to have both Norwegian home, and english out of home all the time. Do you managed to keep the two language apart?. So you do not use Norwegian where you was out, and english when you was inside?. I for one would believe that to be problematic when you had to work two language at the same time.. I believed I would have problems with it, if I had to live in a english speaking country, and was using Norwegian home..

Many I have seen here on DU, tend to have ancestery from either Denmark, Sweden or Norway, and it is nice to se you all. And maybe it was something in the water your ancesters was drinking before they was leaving Norway, you all tend to be rather "liberal" too;). Maybe it is something in your geens:P: Comparing to most americans, I belive most norwigan to be on the liberal specter of the political wiew compared to many americans..

I would guess that as you point out the use of german as the second language have something with the Austria-Hungary empire who was big in the old days.. The use of german was one of the few things that got the whole thing going for a long time before the empire was breaking up in the end of World War One. After the use of Latin was disbanded it was in many cases the german language who kept everything into place.. And the influence of german language is great in eastern europe to this day.. It is far more common to speak german, or russian as a second language for many today, than to use english as your second language.. Even that english have make some progress there too the last 17-18 year.. And I would guess that in the decades to come, the use of english will be better in eastern europe too..

Diclotican

[Hardrada]

65. I spoke the academic sort of English I heard at home

but only understood parts of the conversations the adults were having. My grandfather knew Danish, Swedish and Norwegian. I learned languages
in high school and college. Oh, I forgot I also studied Greek so I could read the New Testament in the original and I also spent a year a Lutheran seminary which was a very multilingual place since we had, for example, professors from Latvia and Lithuania. One of my college professors was from Vienna and fled when Hitler took over there. This professor knew 18 languages and invented one of his own called aoui in which one could express no negative concepts or hostility. His story was that he had been taught this peaceful languuage by visitors from Outer Space who showed up in a UFO one day. It was a very interesting and instructive time.

[Diclotican]

79. Hardrada

Hardrada

It is always a difference between academic and the regular spoken language.. And I know by experience that english, is a far more difficult language than many believe;).. Most Norwegian knew Danish and Swedish, because in many ways the languages is similar. Off course the language is little different here and there, but at a whole most Norwegian, danish and swedish will understand each other without problems.. And many in Norway have been in Sweden on their holidays anyway, if not most Norwegian have been in Sweden at some point.. Most thing is less expensive in Sweden than in Norway, and we have a looooong border who we can drive true anyway.. It is less easy to travel to denmark, because we until for some year ago have to use ship to travel to denmark... Øresundbruen, a bridge who are build between Denmark and Sweden have doing that far more easy but still.. It is just more comfortable to take the ship than to drive.. And it is more fun because it take ca 8-12 hour to travel to Denmark by ship, so you can unwind little and have a "mini-cruise" at the same time:)

Oh, you even learned greek so you could read the new testament in the original language. That is itself no easy feat;). It is always interesting to be in a school setting where you have many good teachers. And I would guess the professor of your, was glad he was in USA when Hitler was ruling in Austria... US was then a far better place than Europe for sure.. To know 18 languages is no easy, and to invented one on its own is no easy that either.. Cool that the language could not express no negative concepts or hostility... They might have a long time with peace or maybe not experienced the concept of war all together, this UFOs?

Diclotican

[Art_from_Ark]

71. I think Norwegian would actually be relatively easy

for an English-speaker to learn, because it is a very closely-related language within the Germanic Group. Norwegian verb tenses are relatively simple, counting is easy, there is little or no need to make adjectives agree with the nouns they are modifying, and there are many words that are similar to English words. If an English speaker is versed in Shakespearean English, then the task of learning Norwegian would be even easier. I took a little Danish myself and was able to get through much of Lille Toms Eventyr (especially after I realized it was the Danish version of "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer!)

I think the obstacles to learning Norwegian have more to do with the small size of the speaking population and the number of dialects (as my Danish teacher used to say, every berg and fjord in Norway has its own dialect!)

[Diclotican]

80. Art_from_Ark

Art_from_Ark

I believe you to be true that.. We are all in the same "language-family" and even that English have their fair share from Latin and French, I would guess that from a english speaking point of view, it should not be that difficult to learn Norwegian after a while.. Many english words is similar in Norwegian that is true.. It is maybe because for the most part we have imported all this words without thinking to much about it... Specially when the computer was coming along in the 1980s-1990s, then we was more or less flooded with english words, because we had non of our own... Iceland have been far better than us, to make Icelandic words for the new thing I guess... I remember in the early 1990s, when the computer thing was coming fast, many was trying to make Norwegian names for the english words... But somehow it never got into the language, and today for the most part, the english words are been used as it have ever been there...

If you are good in Elizabet ian english then you should manage Norwegian if not easy, so at least more easy than most... That is because that language once was very close to the spoken language of norway.. In fact, until William the Conquer in 1066 Norwegian and english was very inter-understanding. In the point that we could speak fluent with each other, maybe with some problems, but for the most part easy enough.. But then the two languages parted and today we have to learn it at school...

Norway have a small population compared to most country that is true.. 4,6 million and counting.. Sweden have 9 and Denmark have 6. So it is not exactly the biggest language been spoken in the world.. But if you ever came to Norway, you might understand why... A lot of woods and mountains (50 percent.. And there and here some city's and a lot of small places where for the most part Norwegian live.. We like our freedom, and our privacy, so the best Nambour we tend to have, is the one who live a quarter of a mile from us;)..
And yes, Norway tend to have a lot of dialects, and your danish teacher are right when he claim that every berg and every fjord in Norway have its own dialect.. Not long ago, it was more easy to understand an english man, than to understands your neighborhood in the next fjord.. It is in fact true;)

Diclotican

[pinto]

5. I admire a couple of brothers who own a deli near me. From Syria originally,

they speak Arabic, English, Spanish and Swedish.

Arabic's their native language, of course, English they learned in Syria, Swedish they learned en-route to the US (they emigrated there from Syria first), and Spanish they learned through the course of business here in CA. Nice guys and the effort has paid off for them.

[SharonAnn]

15. My husband (Chilean) speaks English, Spanish, French, Italian and some German.

The old joke:

A person who speaks three languages is called "trilingual".

A person who speaks two languages is called "bilingual".

What do you call a person who speaks one language? The answer: "American"

[lxlxlxl]

7. Not sure what to tell you...get your CSR to get back here...

This is a private economic system that demands infinite profit growth. They will replace higher paid people with as many lower cost labor as possible. Technology makes it possible for a telephone line to reach asia as easily as it can next door. If you don't like the idea of learning a second language, I sympathize. I only speak English. I wish I had time to learn a second or third, but surviving in this country with one is tough enough.

[HeresyLives]

8. Pardonez-moi?

[billyoc]

10. You're an American, you don't have to learn SHIT.

And don't let anybody ever tell you different.


:rofl:

[ReliantJ]

12. Huneslty

I dunt even no that much inglish!
:sarcasm:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

21. "You don't have to help anybody. That's what this country's all about!"

:rofl:

[stillcool]

11. I think it depends on who finds it necessary..

to adapt. If someone lives, works in a neighborhood and has no need or desire to adapt, they won't. An employer is not required to hire a non-English speaking employee, or do business with those who do not speak English.

[omega minimo]

13. Corporate "America" doesn't care.

[grantcart]

17. ..

您说什么？

[Swamp Rat]

22. .- .-.. .-.. ... -..- ... - . -- ... --. --- .-.-.-

[ConcernedCanuk]

23. Ya shoulda used spell check

.
.
.

It's

.- .-.. .-.. ... -.-- ... - . -- ... --. --- .-.-.-

not

.- .-.. .-.. ... -..- ... - . -- ... --. --- .-.-.-


:silly:

[tangent90]

33. ... .--. .. .-.. .-.. -.-. .... ..- -.-. -.-

:-)

[ConcernedCanuk]

45. .-.. --- .-..

.
.
.

gotcha

[Cerridwen]

42. Haven't seen you in a while.

I hope things are going well for you.

Folks been askin' where ya was. You've been missed.

:hi:

[AlCzervik]

18. My husband has learned a lot of mandarin which sounds hilarious with a boston accent

anyhow we live in California and hear Spanish at times, my daughter has been taking it for 8 years so she's pretty good at translating on the very few occasions it's come up. The only time i've called into someplace and it's been in india was avis i think, no problems, the guy had an accent but i understood everything he said.

i don't know why you think you're expected to learn a new language, It doesn't sound like you're dealing with the esl folks all that much. I'm trying to learn mandarin right now because i'm interested and not because i feel i'm expected to. Most other countries in the civilized world require another language be learned, i think that's a great thing.

[mentalsolstice]

20. Actually, I deal with ESL nearly everyday.

Since it's Hispanic and I grew up with Latino (south FL), I'm perfectly comfortable in understanding and making myself understood. Because the influx of immigrants from Mexico to our city has been fairly recent (est. at 20,000+), I've witnessed everything from frustration, from public services and the Catholic diocese scrambling to upgrade services, to outright xenophobia.

However, I've also witnessed different levels of tolerance and discomfort here at DU when it comes to dealing with a multi-lingual world. I don't want to call out other DU threads, but rather have an intelligent discussion about how we Americans get used to ESL here on our own shores, yet not kick ourselves when we're not comfortable with doing business on foreign shores. My OP was meant to point out that it goes two ways.

[JCMach1]

25. Ummm... try doing business with some of our Scottish cousins

They 'call' it English anyway.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Funny Stuff, JC

Even the north of england has a whopping accent. I've been there a bunch of times, and the first few hours are always something i need to get used to.
GAC

[Odin2005]

35. I've heard that some Northern English dialects still use "thou" and "thee"

:wow:

[JCMach1]

50. Just watch the British version of the Springer Show if you can

to get a feel... YIKES!

[mainer]

28. Or a Midlands accent? Egad, Yorkshire totally throws me

I couldn't understand a word they said.

[Viking12]

36. Same with many Mainers...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. I felt like that in parts of Ireland

[mwooldri]

82. Well they do speak Gaelic in Ireland....

... and then there's Wales, where they speak Welsh. Scotland - parts have their own Gaelic dialect...

In all these places, a bilingual education is mandatory at school level. Certainly I know in Wales, there are some schools where there's only one lesson where you can count on English being used: that's English! Oh, and throw in another language too... usually French. Then you have alphabet differences between English and Welsh: 28 letters in the Welsh alphabet - from A to Y. English to French is far easier, because you still have the same basic 26 letters but certain letters are accented

[liberalhistorian]

74. "Why can't the English learn to set a good example to

people whose English is painful to your ears?
The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears
There even are places where English completely disappears
Why, in America, they haven't used it for years!

Hear a Yorkshireman or worse, hear a Cornishman converse
I'd rather hear a choir singing flat
Chickens cackling in a barn, just like this one

Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian
The Greeks are taught their Greek
In France every Frenchman knows his language from A to Zed
(the French don't care what they DO, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly)
Arabians learn Arabian with the speed of summer lightning
And the Hebrews learn it backwards, which is absolutely frightening
But use proper English, you're regarded as a freak
Oh, why can't the English learn to speak!

Everyone's favorite musical curmudgeon, of course, Professor Henry Higgins in his first song in My Fair Lady

[mwooldri]

83. Too true...

... I so remember the issue with the comedy show Rab C Nesbitt. It was on a shortlist for the Rose D'Or international award; the judges who were supplied with tapes had to be provided with subtitles as the glasweigan accents used were too thick for them to understand, thrown in with colloquialisms and you have almost another language.

Mark.

[timtom]

27. Learning any new languages

can only improve your mind. (But, then, I've always been a linguaphile.)

Right now, I'm working (oh, so slowly) on Irish, Italian, and Mandarin.

Online open courseware from MIT and others are a great boon.

[Tracer]

29. Understanding different accents is tricky.

I think it depends on how much exposure that a person has had to the accent, rather than how many languages one knows.

For instance, my mother was raised in Scotland, so I thought that I had a good grip on British accents. But last week, my daughter and I were watching the PBS production of "Oliver Twist" and neither of us could understand a word of what the Cockney characters were saying.

How much exposure to Cockney have I had? Zero.

[Odin2005]

32. I've heard funny stories about Brits not understanding us when we say "water"

The big reason, apparently, is that we pronounce the T differently. Here in the US T and D come out as a sound similar to the Spanish tapped R when in between vowels. Over it the UK the T usually becomes a glottal catch sound (like in the middle of "uh-oh". So we say "wahrer" and the Brits say "wah'uh".

[geardaddy]

58. Are you sure it wasn't because they might have been using

rhyming slang?

[Odin2005]

30. Tu hablarías Español

In this day and age at least.

That means "You should speak Spanish" if I remember the proper use of the conditional tense.

[BlooInBloo]

68. Bien hecho.

[Art_from_Ark]

78. I think that means "You would speak Spanish"

"You should speak Spanish", I believe, is "(Tu) debes hablar español"

[L. Coyote]

31. If you are an educated person, a minimum of two.

[leftofthedial]

34. for most Americans, speaking even one language well would be a good start.

We could perhaps start with English.

In your case, you should not be required to speak anything but English. However, in the food services industry, speaking at least some Spanish has become a de facto requirement.

[anonymous171]

37. I think that every person should at least know 2 languages.

However, that should be left up to the individual. No english speaking American should never be required to speak another language in this country unless they have a job that requires it.

Just my two cents.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. Frustrates The Hell Out Of Me When Someone In A Service Oriented Field Can't Speak English Well.

I can definitely understand why the waitress was let go, and wish other businesses followed suit.

If someone doesn't need to communicate with customers in their job, then I could give a rat's fat ass if they speak english or not. But if they do need to communicate, it should be a requirement that they can speak it well enough.

[Bill McBlueState]

40. "Hindi, or English with a thick Hindi accent"

Thing is, there's a world of difference between those. If someone's speaking a language you don't know, you're never going to be able to understand him. But if it's English with a thick accent, a little patience will go a long way.

[mentalsolstice]

59. Ahhh? How much patience?

In my own community I sometimes find it's easier to go on and communicate in Spanish than it is to try to understand a person speaking ESL with a very thick accent.

But what if you're trying to negotiate a transaction that includes confidential information such as an account number? And some accents can be so thick that it's near impossible to understand. For a couple of semesters I lived with roommates from Taiwan, and their accents were so thick that they were not understandable for the most part and we got by with hand signals. No problem as it was a benefit to my school's exchange program to place resident students with the exchange students.

However, what happens to your patience when you are communicating over the phone so hand signals, facial signals, etc., cannot be relied on?

[Bill McBlueState]

62. this is why I'm trying to do as much as I can online

I have about zero patience for customer service phone calls, regardless of the staffer's English proficiency. Actually, I'd rather talk to someone with a thick accent than one of the cheerful robots you get these days.

[Ilsa]

43. I get frustrated when I can't read the labels in Spanish at the grocery store.

I shop at a major grocer to get what I need. Most stuff is in English, but occasionally the only item left of a product I need is packaged in spanish, with very tiny english print, if it is there at all.

I am concerned that we cold be headed for a huge national battle in twenty + years. There is nothing wrong with learning a second language, but what if we do and then someone says I need to learn a third or fourth language to get by? My sister told me that some streets in Houston are signed in Vietnamese, not English.

I'd rather establish a national language for documents, signs, public everything.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

46. The Spanish words in this situation should be easy to learn.

If it's a list of ingredients, etc., they will be grade school-level words, and many Spanish words sound similar to their English counterparts.

For example, "azucar" for "sugar."

I don't understand the hysteria over some signs being printed in multiple languages. Many foreign countries have English displayed in addition to their native tongues, and they haven't exactly collapsed into anarchy.

We are one of the few monolingual major countries in the world. Even many third-world countries teach their children at least a second language (English in many cases), so why can't we do the same?

[Ilsa]

47. Translating slows me down. I'm usually having to shop pretty quickly.

We should have more language classes. But there's alot that our education system is missing.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

72. Houston street signs. There is more.

There are signs with Vietnamese on them in the South part of downtown, towards Rice University and the Medical Center. There are signs in Chinese on Bellaire Boulevard, the far west part of the city.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

44. Personally, I am glad I didn't end up moving to an Italian-speaking

community in Boston or NY or Chicago... If I had, I probably would not have learned to be fluent in English (albeit with a southern twinge and a hint of an undetermined accent of European origin). I do agree with a previous poster that sometimes keeping things all in one language risks the 'ghetto-ization' of people.

I know for certain it would have hampered me and, possibly, my ability to graduate high school in 2 years and go on to college. I personally like the influx of people from all corners of the world to rural parts of the U.S.

I like the sounds, the cultures and the languages, but, when it comes down to it, it is nice to rely on English (or whatever other prevalent language there is) to communicate across all cultures.

[treestar]

52. Go to other restaurants and employ American native born and

bred contractors only - that's a freedom you have here in America!

It's a business question - if learning Spanish is to your economic benefit, you do it, if not, not. I would imagine that it is the other way round.

In many countries, people speak English to cater to Americans. Yet when we have another language we scream and cry.

Obviously the more languages a person knows the better educated they will be and the greater their opportunities. It's a big world out there and it is getting ever smaller.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. Rely on the universal language. Profanity.

Easy to use, easily understood, and an absolute necessity when dealing with bubble-wrap or politicians.

[mwooldri]

81. Bullshit.

You don't need to know how to use profanity, but you need to know what I call "bullshit". Since that term is profanity in itself I thought it'd make a great subject line ... whatever language you speak, everyone needs to be fluent in "bullshit". The thing about our politicians is that a good number of them, especially Republicans, have PhD's in "bullshit".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. You're expected to learn as many languages as you expect other people to learn.

:shrug:

[Raskolnik]

63. That is an utterly meaningless post that aspires to profundity.

It does have an animated smiley face, though, which I suppose counts for something.

[geardaddy]

60. I don't think the teaching of Mandarin

has anything to do with expecting you to speak it here in the US(or any other language for that matter).

[geardaddy]

61. Be'?

Dw i ddim yn dallt.

:D

[LanternWaste]

64. probably as many as it takes to...

probably as many languages as it takes to get by effectively and efficiently in your own life. For me, that means two and half. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd probably try to learn more, as there's no Bad Thing in learning an additional language. That being said...

But I feel your frustration-- I have to talk to a guy from Maine once a week... how in the hell am I supposed to understand his accent? "Ayuh?" What the heck is that? Why won't those Damn Yankees learn to speak English. And this guy from Boston-- won't even talk to him anymore-- he drives a 'cah', not a car, but a 'cah'. And even in my own state of Texas (not an English word), I have to go to San Antonio twice a year-- the word is both Spanish AND religulous-- a double damnation if ever there was one.

What we need is one international, homogenized language devoid of any and all accents, culture and charm to be spoken in a flat monotone with zero inflection.

[BlooInBloo]

66. It's funny when Ameicans combine their desire to be as dumb as possible...

with their hatred of dem dam furriners.

[Bluebear]

67. "I live in a southern city" - and you're complaining about unintelligible accents?

:hide:

[BlooInBloo]

70. (snarfle)

[RB TexLa]

69. Right now, the US's dominant languages are English and Spanish

It's what we primarily speak. Those two should be good for now. Our culture can change over the next 40 or 30 years to add to it.

[Alcibiades]

73. The children of immigrants will acculturate

In the meantime, the ownership class is already teaching their kids Spanish so that they will be able to speak with the servants (actually, the nannies they hire to raise their children are doing this, but same diff.)

Languages can be fun, and are not so difficult as you might imagine. My real anger on this issue is not on the inconvenience it may cause, but:

1. the exploitation of immigrant workers by American business.
2. the encouragement of the creation of an immigrant helot class in order to depress wages for American workers.

In the long run, I think that the addition of so many Spanish-speaking immigrants will be a positive for this country. In the short run, though, unrestricted illegal immigration is a hammer for the bosses to use to smash every standard of workplace decency our parents and grandparents fought for in the labor movement. Though, come to think of it, that's been tried before--the thing to do is to organize the immigrants.

[jmm]

75. I'm resisting the urge to post the phone number for my

credit union so people can call and hear the automated message with the thick Boston accent. Of course we don't talk funny here everybody else does.

I want to know how many regional accents I have to learn? Granted it can be annoying trying to explain to somebody on another continent why picking up a cable box at the location they're suggesting I go to is impractical but I've never had as many problems with people from or in other nations as I have from people in different regions of the US. For example my last name is Irish. I'd like to think it's easy to pronounce but even if it's not there's really no excuse for how people from other parts of this country like throwing extra letters in it. It's like they get lazy and assume it's another name without completely looking at it. Sure I'd like to see more people who live and work in this country improve their ability to speak English as a second language but I'd also like to see people get better at speaking it as a first language.

[comrade snarky]

76. You want to complain about people not learning english

Who live here. Fine, there is a point to be made about that. I wouldn't live in France without learning French or Brazil without learning Portuguese.

However, you go on from there to complain about people with accents. Accents? Seriously? That is a problem worth bitching about in a public forum? Sorry, that's just tough. If you want to live in this century, where world wide mobility has resulted in a rich mix of peoples in this country you're stuck with it. Find a place where everyone sounds like a Midwesterner if you want but I'll take my mixed neighborhood with it's Dim Sum, Russian bakeries, burrito shops and Pho thanks.

Note, I'm not calling you a raciest but if talking with people who have accents annoys you I do call you kind of a jerk.

[Iggo]

77. Off the top of my head, I'd say...

...at least the one that's prevalent where you live.

Other than that, you shouldn't be expected to learn someone else's language any more or less that you'd expect them to learn yours.

[Mother Of Four]

84. Thank you so much for posting this wonderful and well thought out OP-

I was sick at heart from a previous discussion of something similar. My frustration was misunderstood, but I don't want to stir the pot on your thread. I'm going to sit back, and read your thread (It's bookmarked for me) and hope to gather some insight.

:hug:

[PfcHammer]

85. I sympathize with OP. My own community is being invaded by

an army of militant Hindi speakers.
There goes the neighboorhood.:eyes: