The Rush Limbaughs of this country are whipping up the Timothy McVeighs of this country

[Cyrano]

Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter and all their fellow haters are dangerous people.

Words have consequences. Does anyone really think that Timothy McVeigh was the only unstable wingnut listening to the destructive siren song of the radio hate mongers?

Foreign terrorists brought down the WTC. But let's never forget that domestic terrorists brought down the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

Our Constitution talks about "... enemies foreign and domestic." Can anyone seriously doubt that Limbaugh and his ilk are egging on our domestic enemies into committing acts of terrorism?

[snappyturtle]

1. It's exactly what they're trying to do....it isn't in code that's for sure.

I can't believe these people can say the things they do!

[onenote]

41. yeah, let's get rid of the first amendment!

The things limpballs and his ilk say are stupid and provocative, but they're also protected. And given some of the things that I and others have said about repubs over the year, I'd just as soon keep it that way.

Sure, the First Amendment isn't absolute. But the case law makes it abundantly clear that to cross the line from protected speech to incitement, you have to do a hell of a lot more that what the RW talkers do. And while I have no idea whether McVeigh listented to Rush, even if he did it doesn't make any difference to me. Rush didn't tell him to blow up a building. Just as Ozzy didn't tell teenagers to kill themselves.

There seems to be a trend here at DU as of late to react to every stupid comment that comes from a rw'er with a call for the person to be arrested or otherwise censored. I say let 'em talk. The more they talk, the more people come to realize how extreme they are.

[tabasco]

44. I must have missed that in the OP.

Where did the OP advocate against the First Amendment or for the arrest of Limbaugh?

The OP simply stated that reactionary hate radio inspires domestic terror, which is a fact.

[onenote]

108. DU 101 -- look at the post a person is responding to, not the OP

[wtmusic]

72. I have noticed that trend too onenote

If A1 doesn't apply to everybody, it's worthless.

[Pushed To The Left]

79. Right wing radio helped turn me into a liberal! That's where I heard the true colors of the right

wing and religious right exposed. I miss the old days of talk radio where you could hear all different points of view throughout the day on the same stations.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

82. No, let's not. Let's get rid of RW radio monopoly. Air America was kicking butt here in San Diego

before it was suddenly yanked off the air. This was during the primaries.

The argument that progressive radio just doesn't have listeners is a crock of sh*t.

[MadMaddie]

87. Yes they can talk but we must pay attention because

they will cross the line, and when they do, when they start advocating violence we better be on them like white on rice.

In Africa, when the African radio heads started talking about Genocide and destroying the other tribes it was largly ignored and attributed to just talking heads. Well those talking heads lead to the biggest genocide in the world.

Do not take lightly the power of the crazies in this world.

Free speech is protected but inciting violence is another.

[hatrack]

89. How about a little fire, Strawman?!?

[bjobotts]

95. Exactly.These people are cultivating ignorance, hate and violence.

[bjobotts]

96. The guy who shot the head of the dem party in Arkansas was their product

His apartment revealed books of Coulter, Hannity etc as his only source of reading and came to believe being a patriot meant killing liberals.

They wanted to make sure the Fairness Doctrine could not be brought back not for what they are doing now but what they are intending to do...pure hate radio instigating violence and destroying the legitimate government. This last election campaign revealed many of those indoctrinated by hate radio and they were ignorant and being kept that way ("...he's an...Arab...Pelosi/Reid are trying to destroy the nation). They believe in the ACORN myth and so many more without any basis except the misinformation from FOX and hate radio.

They admit to buying guns to assault liberals...to the point that liberals I know bought guns to protect themselves from these right wing crazies.

They are trying to use their seditious rhetoric to bring about an insurgency claiming the army will not follow the president but will revolt and follow Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Hannity has made this claim on National TV.

Why...for attention...ratings?...or because he's nuts and instigating his fantasies of heroism.

[mmonk]

106. Do you have a link to information on the shooter?

[rainy]

117. Take away their license as the air waves belong to us and should

benifit us. If they want to spew their hate let them pay to buy air time just like Move on and other groups have to do.

[rainy]

118. opps, meant to post to OP

[RamboLiberal]

121. Are you sure that shooter had that info?

The shooter you're describing sounds like the TN church shooter.

Hadn't heard any more info on the shooter of the Dem head in Arkansas.

[Brazenly Liberal]

104. Um, excuse me but doesn't Cyrano also enjoy the rights guaranteed in the First Amendment?

Why, yes, I believe he does. And in this post, he is exercising them very responsibly as far as I can see. He sees a problem and calls attention to it. Criticizing what someone like Limbaugh says is not the same thing as calling for censorship or arrest.

Now, if you want to talk about disturbing trends among some Democrats here and elsewhere, how about the one in which some Democrats are so freaking afraid of GOP disapproval that they get their undies in a bundle every time they see a liberal act or speak like a liberal? Yes, dear, I'm talking about your post

[spiritual_gunfighter]

105. Yeah where in the OP do they call for the abolishment of the first amendment?

Of course these crazy people are protected. The OP doesnt say anything about that. Project much?

[onenote]

107. now that you've vented, let's see who is projecting

Check the thread einstein...I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to a poster who said he/she couldn't believe limpballs etc "can say the things they do." I'm sure you don't see that as questioning the first amendment rights of these clowns. We just happen to disagree.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

112. Well if the intent of the OP was to question these clowns right to be able to say what they say

then I am with you, of course these guys have the right to say these things and they are protected under the first amendment. They are not protected if they are inciting people to violence. But other than the Knoxville incident there is no evidence that they are doing that. I personally welcome their rhetoric, it outs them as the out of touch crazies that they are. That is one of the great things about the first amendment, you can say what is on your mind and I have the freedom to disagree with you.

[varkam]

109. I must have missed that part in the 1st where a radio platform to voice your asenine opinions is...

protected.

[onenote]

113. Sorry you missed it.

So do you think the government should be able to tell anyone using the broadcast airwaves what they can and cannot say? After all, if broadcast speech isn't "protected"....

[varkam]

116. What I'm saying is...

that the first amendment doesn't guarantee you a platform from which to voice your opinion. Good Old Rush can stand on the street corner all day and say whatever the hell he wants to.

And, in fact, the government does regulate what you can and cannot say - have you ever heard of the FCC?

[onenote]

119. yeah, I've heard of the FCC. In fact, I've practiced law in front of the FCC for 30 years

And no, the FCC does not have carte blanche to regulate what someone can and can't say on broadcast radio/television. You are right, of course, that no one has a first amendment right to have a show on a radio station. But the owners of radio stations do have first amendment rights to decide what to put on their shows. Even if the FD was to be reinstated, that would be the case -- the FD was intended to encourage more speech, not restrict it.

If the stations licensed by the FCC decide they don't want to air Rush's bile any more, there is nothing Rush or his rushbots can do about it legally. By the same token, if those station owners want to keep rush on the air, there is nothing the FCC can do about it.

[varkam]

124. And that's all that I was getting at...

that there is no constitutionally protected right to have a radio show. I'm not saying that there would be anything that could be done about it legally, but going about it via other methods (e.g. getting advertisers to drop like flies) wouldn't be infringing on any constitutionally protected right.

[onenote]

125. agreed

[snappyturtle]

122. Maybe you missed Hannity calling attention to his website at the end of

last week when armed revolution was an option in one of his little polls. If a progressive made a remark like that it would mean a visit by the FBI. AND, don't forget that early in the run up to the Iraq occupation if one opposed the war it was equated by the administration as not supporting the troops....so much for our right to free speech. We weren't even allowed to explain rather we were out shouted and called traitors or worst still, terrorists. Take a look around some right wing websites; they're insighting violence and are racist to boot. If they want to add constructive comments to the discussions fine but rallying their brain dead followers to violence is not acceptable.

[onenote]

126. Similar sentiments (revolution, taking to the streets) have been expressed here on DU

Some pretty recently. I don't agree with that approach, but I would defend their right to raise the issue, just as I would defend the right of rw'ers to raise the issue. I didn't like it when folks like Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins were called traitors for not being rah rah enough after 9/11. But that doesn't mean I think we should trash the constitution. Rather, we need to restore it.

[Bluzmann57]

2. The guy who shot up the church in Arkansas

At least I think it was in Arkansas, he listened to limbaugh and co. There have been others as well, but it's early and I'm tired so I can't provide links right now.

[mwb970]

20. He had books by Hannity and Coulter in his pickup and at home.

Interestingly, this was reported in the first few stories about the incident, then never mentioned again. (I am talking about the Tennessee shooting.)

[Bluzmann57]

51. Ok. Thank you.

It was likely Tennessee I was thinking about as well.

[KewlKat]

3. At what point do they cross the line

regarding freedom of speech? The hate they spew is dangerous and incites the worst in their listeners. What is the attraction to these scum bag media whores? Why do people listen? The people I know around me that listen to them are the same ones who still embrace W, no questions asked. It's become a cult for sure. There's nothing wrong with debate but there is none on these shows. I'm thinking it's the same hypocrites who listen to these folks that are "visiting" the online porn sites. They are warped and there numbers seem to be growing.

[malaise]

4. If they are dangerous people how come the right wing

was whipped in the last two elections?

[Cyrano]

10. You don't have to be in the majority to be dangerous

The KKK in this country was never in the majority. Yet, at one time, they were our worst domestic terrorists by anyone's definition.

[BluePatriot21]

88. they have numbers

they have listeners, I think Rush might have 20 million listeners. It doesnt take many of them to go nutso and do some harm. Look at the power of a handful of people that can cause damage. They commonly refer to it as the lone wolf, say the uni bomber or Tim McVeigh. One person acting alone with little support can cause harm and grief. The Washington DC sniper is also a godo example.
Now realize these nuts of the reich wing have been told for months that Obama is going to take away their guns, and those gun sales have been going through the roof as of late. If you also notice they have riled up the right with the recent Tea Parties, all they need to do is escalate thes tea parties a bit and some nut decides he might bring his new semi automatic rifle.

Think of Hitler as a Goebbels that riles up the crazies with a few bangs of his fist on the podium as you watch the recent CPAC Reich meeting.

[Donnachaidh]

110. dangerous in the real aspect of inciting the crazies to do extreme shit

Oh yes they ARE.

The elections reflect what the majority of people want. However, you only need ONE Tim McVeigh to cause a great deal of pain and damage to the country.

these fearmongering assholes need to be watched AND called on their shit, too.

[RJ Connors]

5. I have been saying this for a long time

These people are dangerous and need to be dealt with as such. They are a threat to the Republic. As you say, the domestic enemy within.


"Foreign terrorists brought down the WTC."

That's potentially debatable.

[Mira]

23. I support exactly what you say. Every word. n/t

[kywildcat]

45. Rush Limbaugh=David Duke with a privately

funded microphone. We need to let the advertisers know that we consider supporting them tantamount to supporting racism and domestic terrorism. Enough of laughing off this extremism as a joke or worse, as an overdramatism of viable opinion. It is neither.

[Cyrano]

50. I totally agree. The problem is that boycotts so rarely work

It really would take something akin to a tremendous act of domestic terrorism to get people to pay attention. And even then, I doubt that enough people would give up their favorite products to "send a message to Rush's sponsors" (not to mention Clear Channel which broadcasts him over so many stations countrywide).

I often wonder if our country is screwed up beyond repair.

[kywildcat]

55. You're correct. Boycotts rarely have an inpact

I think we need to isolate and marginalize these people. Easier said than done though.

[TheBigotBasher]

78. And his rise has correlated with a rise in hate groups.

The economy will make it worse especially as they will continue to targets AAs for "buying homes they could not afford" and of course Muslims for simply being Muslims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5163149&mesg_id=5163149

[TexasLawyer]

93. I would like to know who REALLY supports those shows financially

Listen to a whole show. Three quarters of the ads are PSAs or they are advertising crazy things like vitamins for dogs or industrial metal buildings.

Is the market really speaking when these guys are on the air, or is someone or some organization substantially subsidizing right-wing radio?

[Cyrano]

103. Clear Channel Communications owns about 1200 radio stations countrywide

They all carry Rush Limbaugh. When Randi Rhodes tried to nationalize her local Florida radio show with Clear Channel, Limbaugh threatened to quit.

The only Clear Channel station that ever carried Randi was WJNO in West Palm Beach. She was a money maker for them and consistently had higher ratings than Limbaugh.

Nonetheless, Clear Channel is owned by right-wingers who all but dominate the AM dial across the country. In many areas you can pick up Limbaugh on two or three stations simultaneously.

[burythehatchet]

6. You are quite right. I watched quite a lot of their hate-fest and there was one

unifying theme - fight. Now that would be fine if they were to fight in the political sense, but that is not what they imply.

Having said that, I for one welcome the physical confrontation. This country's fascist virus has been allowed to fester long enough and if we are to create a better society it will only occur after thoroughly disinfecting the country; yes, I mean kill them after they try to kill us.

[RJ Connors]

59. I watch one of the CPAC clips where Rush was alluding too

getting back to a pure America. Made chills run down my spine.

[Kindigger]

7. DeMint

I wish I could find a link to this *hithead's CPAC speech. I didn't have time to write it down, but the part I remember goes something like this: We give you the ammo, you know the target, now its up to you to shoot.

[Medusa]

56. WTF??? Why isn't the media caling him out on this BS?

Oh right, they are ALL GOP enablers.

[onenote]

127. WTF? Why are progressive blogs not discussing this?

Unless, of course, it didn't happen.

[liberal N proud]

8. The conservatives need a terror attack

They are desperate and an attack of any sort would give their cause rise and they would be able to bring their agenda front and center once again.

It is the only thing that would allow them to take control of the nation again.

[Dennis Donovan]

9. I'll reommend this, not because I believe they should be censored...

...but because they need to be monitored.

[TWiley]

11. Limbaugh IS a Timothy McViegh

A coordinated terror attack from the radical right is almost certain at this point. It will be a false-flag attack like Oklahoma City was supposed to be. There are too many heavily armed racist and right wing radical groups out there today and their numbers are growing. The local Michigan Malitia was flying flags upside down when Mr Obama won in November. These crazies should not be simply dismissed.

[jakeXT]

115. Was Oklahoma City a false-flag or not ?

[Rectangle]

12. How about mentioning the Unitarian Universalist shooter in Knoxville

last July. We wanted to kill as many liberals as he could.
And was prompted on by the likes of Limbaugh Hannity, Savage,
O' Reily and others.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/knoxville-church-shooters-manifesto

I feel there is probably going to be more of this kind of crap as the GOP circles the
toilet bowl.:-(

[B o d i]

62. Is that a Freudian typo? You typed "We wanted" but I sure hope you meant "He wanted".

:shrug:

[Rectangle]

86. No, sorry, I saw the Typo just now, my bad-I apologize!!

wow that was a bad typo!:blush:

[Faryn Balyncd]

83. James Adkisson was a WALKING LIBRARY of right wing radio nuttery. Savage's "Liberalism Is a Mental..

.....Health Disorder", of all things, as well as Hannity's "Let Freedom Ring" & a book of O'Reilly's were what he was filling his head with.

Yet, our corporate media allow the right wing to continue the lie that they have prevented any further terrorist attacks on our soil (also forgetting the anthrax attacks).




http://technorati.com/posts/xy%2BDMuhjQ9mD1niA8IL%2FX%2FvcjJp%2Bkkn5%2FnveowTZOm0%3D

[onenote]

120. are you proposing book banning? nt

[Jamastiene]

13. If anything, many of these suggestions by people like Limbaugh could also

be classified as an incitement to rioting as well. They are steadily encouraging a group of people, who have already proven how dangerous they are. That cannot end well.

K&R

[Optical.Catalyst]

14. The Republicans know the end of their Party is upon them

They are fighting with what little that remains.

We hold an insurmountable majority now, with further gains coming in 2010. Now is the time to finish these haters off and usher in a new era of political civility.

[certainot]

15. it comes from a 1000 station strong soapbox that liberals ignore

because it gives them a headache.

there's a local station near everyone for calling complaining boycotting and picketing.

[Cyrano]

16. Are these haters calling for Obama's assassination?

Although none of them have used those words, It's between the lines of virtually every piece of hatred that pours from their mouths.

It's against the law to threaten the life of the President of the United States. Do so, and the Secret Service will be visiting you the same day.

Yet, the hate mongers subtlely suggest this on a virtually daily basis.

Freedom of speech is really a two-edged sword, isn't it? As long as Limbaugh, et al, don't explicitly express what they are implying, they are relatively safe from prosecution for inciting riots, revolution, or assassination.

They are walking a verbal tightrope and it's time for the Department of Justice to start monitoring them very closely as a "potential" threat.

Bush locked up anyone and everyone just because he wanted to and there was no one to stop him.

Limbaugh and his ilk should be thankful that Obama has more respect for the Constitution than Bush/Cheney.

[Enthusiast]

98. They say, "We have to get rid of this guy."

Meaning Obama. That is pretty plain language. Since it is so imperative to rid the country of this horrible Muslim pretender to the throne non-citizen President, as soon as possible, someone is going to think assassination is the single best answer. They don't seem to want to wait until 2012. Lot of impatience in those radio voices. This is how it started in Nazi Germany.

[wtmusic]

17. Long Live the First Amendment

and Rush's ability to say pretty much whatever he wants.

Rush is sinking his own boat. Let's not bail him out with fear.

[Cyrano]

25. Wingnut Paul Harvey just died and he spent almost a century saying

pretty much what he wanted.

He wasn't as blatant as Limbaugh, but he sounded like such a "nice, homespun, common sense" guy, that millions of Americans bought the snake oil he was selling.

He wasn't feared, but he sure as hell helped to lay the groundwork for the Limbaughs of our media.

Rush may well be "sinking his own boat," but there are many more like him waiting to take his place.

It's not the man we have to fear. It's the ideology he sells on the air three hours every single day. An idea (no matter how insane) can change the world for better or for worse. And we already know that the ideas Limbaugh is peddling will change the world from "worse" into pure hell.

[wtmusic]

68. In the USA an ideology can't be outlawed

and it's a good thing too, otherwise yours & mine would have been toast during the Bush administration.

[Cyrano]

69. Exactly where did I say an ideology should be outlawed?

In no post on this thread did I ever state that the lunatics I'm talking about should be silenced.

[wtmusic]

71. My bad, then

What did you mean when you said, "Our Constitution talks about "... enemies foreign and domestic." Can anyone seriously doubt that Limbaugh and his ilk are egging on our domestic enemies into committing acts of terrorism?"

What do you suggest? :shrug:

[Cyrano]

75. Therein lies the dilemma. I didn't and don't have a suggestion of how

to counter these people.

[Fire1]

33. 'Monitoring' hate groups is not fear but caution. I won't get into

the first amendment but there is a 'line' not crossed in the freedom of speech.

[wtmusic]

67. The only legal line

is not inciting violence. Rush is entitled to his opinion as much as you are.

Does Rush get to choose what line you don't get to cross?

[Fire1]

73. May I suggest you actually read this amendment and yes,

he's entitled to his bullshit opinion just as I am. My interpretation of his rhetoric just so happens to be one of inciting violence.

[wtmusic]

76. Just so you understand

your interpretation is not remotely supported by any SCOTUS ruling.

[Fire1]

77. Thus far.

[ileus]

18. I can't even pick up and 9mm because of these goons.

It remains sold out because of people waiting/expecting zombies.

[spanone]

19. it's called inciting.....

[onenote]

42. doesn't come close to meeting the legal definition of incitement

http://supreme.justia.com/us/395/444/case.html

[Cyrano]

48. Now that's really difficult for us non-lawyers to understand

I forget which supreme court justice remarked about pornography, "I know it when I see it." But regarding regarding the legal definition of incitement, if some current day Timothy McVeigh blows up something with a lot of people in it, I'll know it when I see it.

And, yes, I'd probably blame Limbaugh and those of his ilk for having incited it.

[smoogatz]

21. They're murderous buffoons.

It's a mistake to take them too seriously, but it's also a mistake to dismiss them out of hand. They are, in fact, the paid mouthpieces of very wealthy, very powerful fascists who did very well, indeed, under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and are getting very worried about what this Obama fellow intends to do and how he intends to go about it. I welcome their hatred of Obama (and us) because it means we're on the right track--but I do think that all the talk of civil war and violent insurrection on their part borders on treason. Don't forget the notorious Business Plot of 1932.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[1776Forever]

22. Read about the assault against hate speech on Radio & TV by the National Hispanic Media Coalition

http://www.nhmc.org/

On this site you will hear what is being done by the NHMC to get hate filled Hispanic speech off by right-wing hate filled messages.

Congratulations to this organization!

At this site you can read their plea to the FCC here:

http://www.nhmc.org/documents/NHMCToAskFCCForInquiry.pdf

I made a separate post on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5160776&mesg_id=5160776

[Cyrano]

24. What's most striking about these haters is their hypocrisy

None of these chicken hawks ever served a day in the military. But they are more than willing to urge others to go out and "do battle in the name of conservatism."

At the time of the American Revolution, those with the biggest mouths were those we now call our founding fathers. However, in speaking out, they put everything they owned, along with their very lives on the line. Every single person who signed the Declaration of Independence was eligible to hang at the end of a British rope.

So tell me this, Rush. Exactly what is it you personally are putting on the line? No one is threatening to hang you. And no one is even threatening to silence you.

So tell us again about that boil on your ass that kept you out of the Vietnam War, although the vast majority think you are nothing but a boil on the backside of humanity.

[martymar64]

26. Limbaugh better watch what he wishes for

If a civil war breaks out, he'll be at the top of the list as a target for assassination.

[UTUSN]

27. Kick for, best, most succinct topic title ever!1 n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. Remember when John Walker Lind(sp?) was captured?

The media was apoplectic over "American Terrorist" this and terrorist that and how the "permissive" liberal San Francisco upbringing led to his terroristic attitudes.


Some right-wing douche-bag shoots up a liberal Unitarian church, leaves a manifesto naming O'Lielly, Hannity and Goldberg as his mentors and the media makes barely a peep.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

29. He is trying very hard to influence active violence against the groups he hates

and rails against.

[Cyrano]

34. And when that happens, he'll claim that he can't control what other's do

We do have laws against inciting violence, but it's a very hard crime to prove.

IMO, proving incitement against Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, et al should be a no-brainer. Then again, I'm not a lawyer.

So how about we just tar and feather these haters and run them out of this continent? I mean, what the hell. No one ever got 25 to life for doing that.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

37. Limbaugh uses very inflammatory speech, he openly mocks gays & his callers often take

it to the next level, in what they'd like to do with people/groups they hate. And he is the face of the GOP - disgusting.

[Cyrano]

40. The thing is, his hate speech is protected by the 1st amendment which he

and his dittoheads would revoke if they ever got the chance to do so. I really don't know how we stop Limbaugh and those like him.

Abraham Lincoln implied, and Justice Robert Jackson specifically stated that "...the constitution is not a suicide pact."

Perhaps not, but when applied to Limbaugh and others hate radio broadcasters, the first amendment sure as hell doesn't seem to be protecting the rest of us.

Sigh!

[onenote]

57. I'm always amused when someone cites Robert Jackson's "the constitution is not a suicide pact"

Why? For starters, because it was from a dissenting opinion, not the majority opinion. The majority opinion in the case in which Jackson was dissenting was written by William O Douglas. The majority opinion struck down a disorderly conduct law as applied to speech -- even speech by a pro-Nazi, anti-semitic lunatic. Here is what Douglas said:

a function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute. It may indeed best serve its high purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger. Speech is often provocative and challenging. It may strike at prejudices and preconceptions and have profound unsettling effects as it presses for acceptance of an idea. That is why freedom of speech, though not absolute, Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, supra, pp. 571-572, is nevertheless protected against censorship or punishment, unless shown likely to produce a clear and present danger of a serious substantive evil that rises far above public inconvenience, annoyance, or unrest. See Bridges v. California, 314 U.S. 252, 262; Craig v. Harney, 331 U.S. 367, 373. There is no room under our Constitution for a more restrictive view. For the alternative would lead to standardization of ideas <5> either by legislatures, courts, or dominant political or community groups.

The second reason I'm amused is because those citing the "constitution is not a suicide pact" language also sometimes point to Lincoln as the originator of the concept. Of course, they skip over the fact that Lincoln was defending his decision to suspend habeas corpus or the related fact that when you start down this particular slippery slope you inevitably end up with, as we did in recent years, with attempts to do away with habeas corpus for alleged "terrorists." I don't recall a lot of folks here defending chimpy on that one, yet without hesitation a number of DUers now seem to accept the underlying principle, so long as they are the ones applying it and they get to apply it asshats like hannity and rush.

I don't think the Weather Underground's manifesto is to blame for any of the acts of violence that occurred during the 60s and I'm not going to pin acts of violence committed by mcveigh or other rw nuts on the rantings of rw talk radio. Political crazies have been targeting people they don't agree with or don't like long before talk radio existed and if we start assuming a a causal link between the spewings of rw radio and the violent actions of some people who may (or may not) have paid any attention to those rantings we are opening a door that will lead to the complete foreclosure of dissent.

[rolltideroll]

64. Well said

That gave me a lot to think about.At the least, I am not using that cliche anymore.

[Cyrano]

65. Excellent post, onenote. You tuned me into facts which I was unaware of,

checked out, and found you were absolutely correct. You're also right that many crazies existed long before hate radio came along.

But I would ask you to not underestimate the power of hate radio, nor the influence it has over the beliefs and ideologies of millions of people. While there are no statistics available, it's seems to me that it's possible that the influence of hate radio has exponentially multiplied the number of people who are inclined to commit acts of insanity and/or violence.

I'm not asking you to disprove a negative. But I am asking you to consider the damage that Limbaugh and his ilk are doing in a barely veiled attempt to disrupt a sane social order.

[onenote]

66. In no way would I ever defend what limpballs and his ilk say

but I will defend their right to say it.

[wtmusic]

70. There's no evidence that Lincoln's suspension was necessary

but the move is cited often as a reason to trash the Constitution when convenient. In that sense, it did far more harm than good.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

30. He's the face of the GOP & doesn't even try to hide his racism, hatred of gays, women, etc....

[Stuart G]

31. EXTREMELY IMPORTANT...IT IS THE TRUTH...NT K and R

[brazos121200]

32. A wounded animal is a dangerous animal. and the

republican party is a wounded animal. Just let a single terrorist attack happen in this country and you will hear all the right wing talking heads scream that Obama is not protecting America. It will be a veritable roar, and most dittoheads will agree. Of course, Bush was given a free pass for 911, but not Obama. The repubs will stop at nothing to destroy Obama and his social agenda.

[Enthusiast]

99. I share your concern, brazos.

I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that a whole bunch of very powerful and wealthy people stand to lose under Obama. These are the Republican favored.

[Fire1]

35. K&R

[The Wizard]

36. The entire Republican noise machine

can not walk the streets. For that matter, neither can the neocon leadership. Witness Rummy being berated at a bust stop in DC. Why Ronald Dumsfeld is taking a bus is a mystery. The dictators we're supposed to hate can walk the streets in their homelands, Bush and Cheney can't.

[libodem]

38. egg-zackly

The scary thing about Anal Oxycontin Cyst, is not just his Fascist rhetoric, but whom it inspires. I'm pretty sure that those White Supremacist Survival Gun Hoarding Jack Booted Skinhead Thugs, hang on his every word. There are those who are further to the Right than he is and he's pumping them up with hate and discontent. Hitler would be so proud. Yes, there is a reason the Neo-Nazi's and the Neo-Cons are on the same side....and it's not Socialism. Notice how suddenly that has jumped out as the huge boogie-man?

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. No question about it.

[DemocracyInaction]

43. Exactly what I've been thinking for a long time

McVeigh was our first big terrorist and he was spawned by these talking assholes. The guy who shot up a church in TN where he thought there were "liberals" admits it was because of right wing talk shows. There is a difference between offering different viewpoints and asking for violence....and, believe me, they were hot to get someone to take out Obama, too. Where is Homeland Security. If they investigate any overheard whisper of what might be a "terrorist"; then why aren't they after what is right in front of them. It's not only bin Laden's boys who would crow with joy to see this country attacked and destroyed...look just beyond the end of our noses and you can find them.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

46. And they are a monopoly in most places - Air America was kicking butt here in San Diego before they

were quickly yanked off the air. Now there's only the RW crap to listen to - explain that to me - Sounds like a controlled monopoly.

[Pushed To The Left]

81. That's the real problem. That monopoly needs to be broken up so both sides can be heard. n/t

[Gman2]

47. Thats why I practice extreme prejudice on haters.

They get in line in small ways so they dont get any bright ideas. I dont tolerate hate. They go down to whatever degree is called for. If it is just an upbraiding, so be it. If they get rambunkxious, that also can be arranged. Free reign, without stigma, for haters will breed terrorists. They MUST be kept in their basements. Stigma, like Bill Bennett taught us, is necessary to civilized living. If you are a hater, I am devoted to seeing you FAIL. If all others did likewise, they would last about a week. Without a blowhard to inflate them, they are marshmallows. Work done early, to smash conscience into them, will pay dividends in time. I am ready to teach.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

49. The Chairman of the Democratic Arkansas party that was murdered

in August of last year - I believe the killer was a hate radio consumer and total gun nut? That whole tragic sad incident seemed to fall off the radar pretty quickly. maybe the media was not interested in exploring ties?

[AnotherMother4Peace]

52. Is this traitor still addressing our troops on Armed Forces Radio? He is calling for the failure of

our Commander and Chief. It does not make any sense that he is able to broadcast to our brave men and women in the military.

[Cyrano]

53. Don't know. But if so, Obama should put an immediate stop to it.

[newspeak]

54. Hitler and his ilk also spewed ignorant bigotry-

hate against jews, homosexuals, commies, unionized labor. Sound familiar? I wonder how much media balance was in Germany while Hitler's goons spread their fear mongering. And, it was fear mongering. Limpballs, Hannity, G. Liddy, Coulter (and other spewers)--are dangerous if they incite violence. Now if they had someone credible on their shows, challenging their rhetoric, we wouldn't be having a problem--but they are allowed to rant on, with very little challenge. Hell, Limpballs callers are screened. These ranters of untruths or half truths. just need to have a truly kick butt opposition to challenge them. And, by the way, Limbaugh is not an entertainer--I am not entertained listening to him, nor is he a comedian-he says nothing comical.

[Enthusiast]

100. Nazi words eventually turned

into action. It started with a few scuffles in the streets. Don't for one moment think it can't happen here.

[Uncle Joe]

58. Excellent observation, Cyrano, and let their be no doubt, these people

would have minimal or no impact without the implicit/explicit magnification of their hatred message from the one way mass megaphone of the corporate media.

Thanks for the thread.:thumbsup:

[Initech]

60. Didn't McVeigh site RW hate radio as the reason for doing what he did?

[onenote]

63. not that I recall

If he did, presumably someone can find it and post a link

[rolltideroll]

61. Limbaugh is not all of it

Look, some of this talk is scary. I know some people on the left went nuts during the Bush years, but go over to some right wing web sites where they can operate in anonymity, it is constant threats, talk of leaving the union, racist remarks,calls to kill political opponents. But one constant is that they mention these guys in the thread. There has to be a correlational effect.

[SoCalDem]

74. Can you imagine the furor, if Limbaugh were named Achmed Mohammed

and he said the same things?
He's just an inciter of violence..pure and simple, and he continually gets away with it because he's "just an entertainer"..

just sayin'...

[rvablue]

80. Good point. This needs to become a talking point/meme! n/t

[falcon97]

123. That's exactly correct.

And CNN and F"N"C wouldn't be carrying his speeches live.

[indepat]

84. Can any rational person seriously doubt Limbaugh and his ilk are domestic enemies as referenced

and foreseen by the framers of the Constitution? :P

[Fire1]

85. I say, let him keep talking. It's only a matter of time before he

or one of the others, actually makes the mistake of spouting rhetoric that 'clearly' incites violence and this violation will be irrefutable.

[onenote]

91. I think Justices Douglas, Brennan, Marshall etc were rational persons

and I'm fairly confident they would not regard rw talkers a "domestic enemies as referenced and foreseen by the framers of the Constitution" at least not if you are suggesting the framers intended to silence them.

See:http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0414_0441_ZO.html
http://www.enfacto.com/case/U.S./354/298/
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=337&invol=1

[creeksneakers2]

90. He'll be more dangerous in the future

The current direct confrontation against Limbaugh is likely to bring his lies and hatred out in the open. From there, Limbaugh will be disavowed and marginalized. He'll still keep his zombies though.

Then we will have the ingredients for real trouble. Limbaugh is a cult leader. If he goes down, he'll do it like David Koresh and put the whole place up in flames and take everybody else down with him. There will be opportunity to breed revolt if economic conditions worsen enough. Limbaugh has millions brainwashed and they'll do what he tells them to do.

I'm not for taking away Limbaugh's free speech rights. I'm for using ours to try to destroy him before he takes the country in a terrible direction.

[yodermon]

92. Personally, I loved Hercule Poirot in Curtain. n/t

[SleeplessinSoCal]

94. Their desperation is one thing, but I believe their words are treasonous

[LaPera]

97. Republicans don't care, they just want power back at any cost, they ARE the corporations, they

are greedy, they are liars, they are selfish, they are hateful, they are fucking elitist republican!!

[Enthusiast]

101. Example of distortion

This was the first post in Yahoo Buzz in response to an article on the announcement of Sebelius. This is hatred and nothing compared to what will be posted later. They will call Obama a monkey and imply that assassination would be a viable solution.

"Can some flunkie in the Obama administration make sure she paid her damn taxes?! With Obamarxist's continued series of tax-cheats as his criteria for nomination into cabinet-level jobs, it is a totally legitimate question to ask if Gov. Sebelius hasn't been a tax-cheat herself! Maybe, like the scofflaw Geitner, she failed to pay her self-employment taxes at the IMF. Or, maybe like now-disgraced joke and former nominee Daschle, Sebelius failed to pay taxes for the free use of her car and driver, stupidly misbelieving that it was only a "gift" and thus not subject to taxes! Further, Sebelius is morally debauched since not only did she oppose a recent law to curb late-term abortions, but she also is a good friend of George Tiller the Baby Killer. He actually won a reception at her home in 2005, yet Tiller is the leading abortion-doctor in the US, specializing in late-term abortions not to save a woman’s life, but merely if the woman feels "depressed!"

[Historic NY]

102. If that happens the must be held accountable, the are inciting the inner voice of these nuts.

[onenote]

114. did JD Salinger "incite" the "inner voice" of Mark David Chapman?

Did Ozzy Osbourne "incite" the "inner voice" of kids that committed suicide after hearing "Suicide Solution"?

Did the Beatles "incite" the "inner voice" of Charles Manson?

Do you want to go down the slippery slope of suggesting that whenever a nut job acts, anyone who wrote something that influenced the nutjob is responsible, even if millions of others read/heard the same words and weren't "incited" to do anything?

What books that have inluenced crazies should be ban: the Koran, the Bible, Mein Kampf?

[rainlillie]

111. ITA!

I wrote about this on my blog last week, I'm so glad others can see this too. The right-wing parrots should tone down their rhetoric.

[lib2DaBone]

128. Yes they are. Glenn Beck will lead the Skin Heads and Bubba Militia

....low information Ditto Heads into battle against whoever stands in their way.

(Snip)

While I was on vacation last week, Glenn Beck wrapped up his regularly scheduled apocalyptic fearmongering with a Friday special that laid out the future as he fears it.

It's pretty much a Mel Gibson production, with lots of Road Warriors and other dystopian features.

The program opened with a warning that pretty much told us how crazy it was going to get:

Topics discussed on today's program may be disturbing to some viewers. The views expressed on this program are not predictions of what will happen, but what could happen. The panelists have been asked to think the unthinkable. Viewer discretion is advised.

Here's the future that Glenn foresees:

Our third scenario: Anger and discontent at home. The year is 2014. Many people are feeling disenfranchised. People are isolated from their political leaders -- they've been betrayed over and over and over again.

Internet connects like-minded people. And the 'Bubba Effect' arise in individual militias.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/glenn-beck-plots-out-our-dystopian-f