Mass Transit -vs- Electic Cars Powered by Renewables

[pilsner]

Electic cars powered by wind and solar is the only technology that has the potential to get to zero carbon emmissions and kick the oil and coal addictions.

Plus, for the most part America chose sprawl and highways long ago. Amerericans prefer the independence of personal cars. The toothpaste is already out of the tube and ain't going back in.

It would take significant investments to make Solartopia happen---upgrading electrical grid, installation of solar panels and wind turbines, etc.

The mayor of Columbus here is twisting arms to get $230 Million in seed money for a trolley to go up and down one street for 15 miles. The neighborhoods served by the trolley are affluent. Meanwhile, our bus service is seriously lacking.

Why should I be rooting for trolley and light rail projects in the stimulus bill when such investments are a zero sum game and would take away from investing in electric cars powered by renewables?

[villager]

1. clearly, you don't think much about sprawl, gridlock, or the ecological cost

of incessant highway building...

[pilsner]

3. Columbus has a great highway systmem

it's not locked in on any sides by a body of water. It's very rare for me to get stuck in traffic although I wisely choose to live 5 miles from my job.

I would prefer that Columbus had a mass transit system such as D.C. or NYC but the city chose highways a long time ago.

At this point electric cars powered by renewables may be the only solution to save civilization as the research of global warming gets more and more disturbing.

[villager]

11. Here in L.A., we can scarcely afford to keep imagining cars offer us much future

regardless of how they're powered... though yes, we also live in the shadow of dumb infrastructure decisions made decades ago...

Still, rails represent much of a future, transpo-wise, than trying to keep people buying, and driving, cars....

[leftstreet]

2. You're right, and you're wrong

The bullshit "light rail" and "trolley" enthusiasts are generally Limo Liberals who'd like to take a fun trip from Macy's to the Zoo.

But you're wrong that Americans "chose" suburban sprawl and endless highways.

Public Transportation is what we need.

[JDPriestly]

9. I love light rail. I use it as often as I possibly can.

Fortunately, I live near a light rail line in L.A. Unfortunately, it doesn't connect to all of the places I need to go.

[NYC_SKP]

4. You're wrong. Sprawl is on its way out.

Homes are too large to heat, yards too expensive to maintain, infrastructure to support commuting by personal auto is inadequate and not worth growing.

Mixed use buildings, apartments over retail, are returning to many cities, including the silicon valley, and many people prefer the convenience.

What is unsustainable cannot last forever, and suburban sprawl and the personal automobile will not over time win out over relative growth in public transit.

You should visit NYC, or live there for a while, or talk to someone who lives in Manhattan.

[pilsner]

5. What's the transporation solution to global warming?

Vehicles burn most of the oil. Coal supplies most of our electric. We have to change that or else shit's gonna hit the fan. Electic cars powered by renewables solve so many problems.

Yes, we keep investing to maintain mass transit in NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC but it's silly to invest in light rail in Columbus so college kids can have a nice way to the bars downtown.

[NYC_SKP]

6. I'm totally pro electric cars, smart grid.

I work in the renewables industry, I drive a Prius, I might even make it electric and charge it from the 0.5 kW PV system I have.

The transportation solution includes more walking, less need for transportation in the first place.

Just like the energy solution includes fewer needs for it in the first place.

[DCKit]

7. You'd rather the drunk college kids were driving???

If you're going to argue, at least take a minute to think about what you're going to say. Your's was not the best example.

AFIK, public transportation through "wealthy" neighborhoods exists to deliver the servants - you don't want the help parking an old Chevette in your driveway, do you? In many cities, those lines shut down at the end of the work day to keep the residents safe from the riff-raff.

[pilsner]

10. Thanks for the laughs

A bus currently runs up and down the route (where the light rail would go) every five minutes for the college kids.

[pilsner]

12. Sprawl and highways

I'm afraid the sprawl will be around as long as the highway system is. Not that I want the 5 acre lot 25 miles from my job downtown.

Politicians would rather release all prisoners than do away with funding to keep highways somewhat maintained.

[JDPriestly]

8. America's population is aging. How many 80-years olds do you

want sharing the road with you as you drive?

[berni_mccoy]

13. Why not both? We can greatly reduce CO2 emissions and energy consumption by using Mass Transit

Why do we need to have one vs. the other.

And Mass Transit can be energy and renewable friendly to boot.

How about electric powered rail systems (using maglev) and hydrogen fuel cell busses (which have already been prototyped and put to use in several cities)?

[pilsner]

15. Investments are a zero sum game

The billions to build a trolley in Columbus would take away money to upgrade the electrical grid and install wind turbines & solar panels and fund battery r and d.

[berni_mccoy]

16. Um. No it wouldn't. The two go hand-in-hand.

If everyone switched to electric vehicles, the current delivery system couldn't handle it, even with wind and solar upgrades. You're dreaming if you think the answer is only in technology. We need to change the culture and consumption attitude before we can solve this.

[pilsner]

17. I read Wendell Berry and Thom Hartmann

and realize that technology doesn't provide all the solutions.

My point is that the current system can't make Solartopia possible because we need infrastructure investments. And, new trolleys aren't the best expenditure.

[old mark]

14. We need both. Rail pasenger transportation in the US is a disgrace. nt