"Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." Hemmingway

[Taverner]

tekisui, that is a genius quote...and so true

[Gregorian]

1. Oh, I have a line from Orwell's 1984 that is absolutely genius. Same concept.

I'm replying so I can (argh, I'm naked, going to bed, and it's dark in here with my laptop. Ew. Sorry.) I just can't get away to sleep and get up for tomorrow.

But this quote is outrageous.

Basically, he says that war is not to win against another country. It's to destroy the fruits of our labors in order to sustain the heirarchy of society. It keeps the workers working. The rich rich.

And there is half of the crime.

Man, when I saw that line, I realized why Iraq made no sense. Why just wreck a place. And why make us broke in the process. Two birds with one stone.

Orwell.

[Name removed]

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[Fire_Medic_Dave]

2. So when Obama continues the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan he too will be a war criminal?

[azul]

6. Is it legal to invade and occupy countries without congress declaring war?

Is this legality issue too confusing and shameful to face for our country now that we have been duped into complicit support?

An un-ending military adventure to support oil multinationals and to insinuate the US into Middle East politics by toppling governments and nation building -is what we were sold on?

And just how does a democracy achieve any sort of victory by suppressing peoples and occupying their territories? Empire? Democratic Empire?

Have you read Chalmers Johnson's Nemesis?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. So if Obama doesn't immediately end both conflicts is he as guilty as Bush?

[azul]

3. War. Where mass murder is not only legal and pardoned,

it is the measure of victory.

Unconscionable and criminal to waste dwindling resources and human energies on making war machines while thousands of people starve to death daily.

Some vital sane piece of humanity was lost in fire and atomic bombings of populated cities and determining it to be legal warfare: conscience. And now we're all on the guilt-death trip.

How does mankind re-grow a conscience and make peace when it is all but screaming that the taste of blood is really yummy? And like verile masculine and honorable to hate and kill each other?

Maybe invest in some such thing as Pacifica Radio and expand it into worldly TV?

http://www.pacifica.org/

[Name removed]

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[Horse with no Name]

7. You have no idea who Hemingway is do you?

Do you know what ECT does to the brain?
You might read up on it a little before you start spouting shit.

Now...you come in and shit on someone's thread with your first post with a user name "Vengeance" and a start day the day before the inauguration?
Let me guess. Kamikaze?

[Name removed]

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[Naturyl]

5. Conflict is the nature of existence.

That being said, false or manufactured conflict IS a crime and should be treated as such.

The difference between genuine natural conflict and false, manufactured conflict is the difference between Harry Truman and George Bush.

[Gregorian]

11. Orwell on war

"In accordance to the principles of Doublethink...
"it does not matter if the war is not real...
"or when it is, that victory is not possible.
"The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous.
"The essential act of modern warfare...
"is the destruction of the produce of human labor.
"A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance.
"In principle, the war effort is always planned...
"to keep society on the brink of starvation.
"The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects.
"And its object is not victory over Eurasia or Eastasia...
"but to keep the very structure of society intact."



This ought to take your breath away like you've just been hit in the gut. It's what I've been saying all of my life. I used to say we ought to save a step and just drop refrigerators and stoves on other countries.

What this says is that Bush waged war on America. The war on terror, like the war on drugs, is a war on America.