Say it ain't so, Bruce!!!

[Milo_Bloom]

Bruce Springsteen, hero of the working man. The Boss. The ultimate blue collar democrat has inked a deal for WAL-MART to carry his new best of CD EXCLUSIVELY.

http://www.livedaily.com/news/15427.html

"Just weeks away from the release of his new studio album, Bruce Springsteen has ironed out an exclusive deal with Wal-Mart to distribute his forthcoming best-of compilation."

Why would a blue collar hero give such a deal to a company who seemingly does nothing but screw the American blue collar worker.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Man, that STINKS!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Because he's not a hero - he's just an overhyped, overrated pop-rock star?

:shrug:

[RandomKoolzip]

26. He's a whore just like the rest.

The only difference is that Bruce has narrowed his audience to a niche demographic (y'know, well meaning boomer liberals from the middle class who imagine that they're working-class heroes) instead of a mass one, which means that that audience thinks he's one of them. Surprise! He's a businessman too. Man...talk about catering to a niche demographic!

[jonnyblitz]

48. I never liked his music and i like a wide range of stuff that

makes people scratch their heads when i tell them. the "born in the usa" stuff was cheesy.

[iamincali83]

49. Wow thats exactly the way ive always felt about him.

[TomInTib]

3. Oh, Jesus.... there has to be an explanation.

The 'best-of' may not belong to him. This may be a label deal with WalMart.

I certainly hope so.

[LanternWaste]

10. Were I a betting man...

Were I a betting man (but I'm not), I'd bet an easy five-spot that you're scenario is correct.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. Springsteen owns all his stuff

He's making Walmart bucks on this, and I won't be buying any more Springsteen music.

Kind of sad.

[Taverner]

4. Maybe he wasn't behind the decision

After all lawyers for U2 sued Negativeland despite the bands (U2) insistence that the lawsuit be dropped

[TomInTib]

6. It has to be a label deal.

Many times, "best-of" compilations are label-driven.

Heck, some of that stuff may be PD.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. Do you honestly think,

after what Springsteen went through with Mike Appel, that he's not going to have the last word on what happens to his compositions?

Sorry, but this belongs to The Boss. It's all his.

[DJ13]

5. The problem comes from thinking a millionaire is a

"blue collar hero"

[Mike 03]

7. Another "Best of" Compilation? F'r chrissakes, Bruce. Why don't you

remaster "The River", "Darkness...," and "Born in the U.S.A." instead and forget another "Best of." This will be the, what, third, fourth?

[DebbieCDC]

8. What is live daily?

I've never heard of this site.

When I read it on Bruce's site I'll believe it.

If it's true, he will have lost one of his biggest fans.

[Milo_Bloom]

15. Live Daily

Is a ticketmaster company and if it is there, it is 100% true.

However, here is the article from Rolling Stone for doubters.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/12/22/bruce-springsteen-plans-wal-mart-only-greatest-hits/

[Mike 03]

9. I'll bet if we could see the paperwork, we'd see that this is a contractual

obligation that Columbia, not Bruce, has with WM. It sucks, but I doubt he has anything to do with it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. Really........

Springsteen has a reputation in the industry for keeping the tightest artistic and commercial control over his work. None of this is happenings - if it's true - without his approval and cooperation.

No one sells Springsteen's stuff unless Springsteen agrees.

He is, after all, a businessman with a product to sell.

It's a huge disappointment, though, I just say - if it's true. I hope it's just a rumor.

[ColbertWatcher]

16. Regardless if Springsteen owns his stuff ...

... who is publishing and distributing it?

This happened with the Eagle's greatest hits and a Don Henley release, too. Now, I'm wondering if it has to do with Wal-Mart and record companies?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. It has to do with money

You don't see any disclaimers on Springsteen's website - it fact, you see the announcement.

It's always about the money .

[ColbertWatcher]

22. Yes, who is getting the money.

Who made the deal? The copyright owner of the songs? The entity that owns the licensing rights? The record label (publisher)? The distributor?

Springsteen was going to get paid no matter how it was distributed, since he owns the licensing or copyright, but who distributes it?

And what does iTunes, and similar sites have to say about it?

Is this essentially a fight between record companies and file sharing services?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. Huh?

It's a simple distribution deal. Sounds like the CD is nothing more than a warmed-over version of old songs, all previously released.

That's all. Another shot at making money in a different venue.

Columbia makes the deal on behalf of Springsteen, with his implicit approval, and the money flows in to everyone.

[ColbertWatcher]

27. So Columbia records is behind it not Springsteen himself?

It seemed like people were blaming Bruce for the deal with the Wal-Mart.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. Both

It's like this - when my agent sells a manuscript of mine to a publisher, I sign the final contract, but her agency does the work for me leading up to that contract. Or, if I'm not available, she has my power of attorney to sign that contract. Then the publisher sends the money to her agency, her agency takes the commission, and they issue a check to me.

Springsteen and Columbia work like that - like any business partnership.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. I think you oversimplify the record business. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

36. Really?

Tell me how you perceive it. I'm up being educated, if my previous information about the music business is wrong.

My son-in-law is an old rock star - that's all I have to go on.

So, please, edify me.

[ColbertWatcher]

47. Just a little.

The composer, has a deal with the publisher.

The performer has a deal with the publisher.

The publisher has a deal with the distributor.

And Wal-Mart has its deal with the distributor and its deal with the devil.

I just find it strange that Wal-Mart was able to get yet another sweetheart exclusive deal with another big musician.

People seem to be blaming the artists exclusively without regard to all the side deals (the ones I didn't mention) between all the music industry people (and Wal-Mart).

[Tangerine LaBamba]

51. Go back...........

The distributorship matters are included in the original contract. That's a very important part of any entertainment contract.

You state those matches as if they were exclusive, without overlap, and that's a false perception. There's far more too it than that.

Yeah, people are blaming Springsteen for selling out, which is what I think he's done with this Walmart deal, but I never thought he was anything more than a musician, a very talented musician who was out there selling his art, just like any artist.

No one likes to find out that their heroes are human.

[Milo_Bloom]

17. It's true... article is also in Rolling Stone.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/12/22/bruce-springsteen-plans-wal-mart-only-greatest-hits/

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. Fans buy the sizzle, overlooking the steak

Everyone needs or wants to believe that the singer really is the song. Bruce Springsteen has, I know, always been on the side of the angels where social issues are involved.

But, he's also a multimillionaire artist and businessman, and this is just another facet of his professional life.

Yet, some fans will feel betrayed because they believe he really is some kind of working class hero. John Lennon lived and died at the Dakota, hardly a bastion of working class heroes.

They're just people making a living. A very handsome living.

[Milo_Bloom]

23. Some are more genuine than others

I have always felt that Springsteen was one of the genuine ones, but I guess I was wrong and am allowed to be disappointed by it.

Billy Joel used to RAIL against ticket scalpers, claiming he was out for the fans and felt that fans shouldn't be forced to pay high prices for the best seats (Bon Jovi did the same as well.) Billy Joel even threatened to never tour again if the industry didn't do something to stop fans from being taken advantage of by scalpers.

Ticketmaster recently unveiled technology that allows artists to scalp their own tickets to fans by auctioning off seats in the best sections. Worse, they allow the artists to now sell the best seats for inflated prices via "Premium Platinum Seats"

Both Bon Jovi and Billy Joel have taken full advantage of these new tools, selling their best seats for 5->10x the normal face value. I quickly labeled them hypocrites. Springsteen did not avail himself of these tools and instead simply made premium seats "will call only" under the mistaken belief that this would keep scalpers from buying them. (it actually wound up driving up the prices on the secondary market, but that wasn't the intended result).

Based on Bruce's unwillingness to increase profits from his own shows by scalping his own tickets I thought... wow, this guy may be for real.

However, I could more easily forgive his willingness to scalp his own tickets than his willingness to enter into an exclusive relationship with Wal-Mart, whose sole mission on this earth is to profit from the fall of unions and the destruction of American manufacturing.

[brettdale]

44. Billy Joel recently came to New Zealand

Went to the concert, it blew me away, one of the best concerts I have been too.

The tickets prices werent that that bad, you could either buy then online, or thru record stores, there were just three different prices.

$370 ($185 USA) New Zealand for the floor seats, first 18 rows.
$220 ($ 110 USA) for the rest of the floor seats
$140 ($70 USA) for the stand seats.

I thought it was reasonable for a two hour concert with Billy singing all his old stuff, and you had a chance to get the seats you wanted.

[Milo_Bloom]

54. Here is what I am talking about...

http://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/735392/mtou?ac_link=bjoel08_wi_text.

Where he takes the best seats and sells them at more than 3x the regular face value, not allowing fans to buy them unless they cough up the big bucks.

Face value 97.50 PER TICKET.

Good seats. 575 PER TICKET.

This from a guy who used to supposedly care about the regular fan.

Right.

[brettdale]

55. Here in New Zealand

The best seats, the first 18 rows all went on sale at the same time, for the same price. No seats were hold back.

[Mike 03]

20. Maybe you are right. I know at one time he owned all of his material and made EVERY

choice about how it was used, but he's not as popular (sadly) as he used to be and I have no idea if he is still able to make every decision about how his music is marketed and "dropped."

But since I don't know about this, I will stay tuned. If you are right, it will be a huge disappointment. Very sad. He has always, truly been on the side of the working class. I have a picture of him signing autographs for mineworkers and Viet Nam vets.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. None of this Walmart crap

negates the good work he's done - don't forget him campaigning for Kerry and Obama - nor does it detract from the value of his body of work.

He's had a fantastic run. He's closing in on 60 now, and things change.

Right now, I'm sort of getting queasy, thinking that maybe the Rolling Stones are going to go on tour again. With Jagger and Richards closing in on 70, the idea makes me sad.

[Mojambo]

14. Unbelievable. n/t

[Mike 03]

21. Man, this would be a huge disappointment. If it turns out to be

true, we have to wonder why he didn't do like the Rolling Stones and just create his own record company. He has the bucks.

But another compilation? It sounds like a cheap throwaway.

Why the f&*k doesn't he REMASTER his classics? God knows it needs to be done.

[RandomKoolzip]

25. Why should this be a surprise? Springsteen's always sucked.

In the words of (REAL hero) Richard Meltzer, Springsteen is "the emperor's new jeans and workshirt." His music has been laughably bombastic, bland, maudlin, and melodramatic since 1975 or so, and the guy's always taken himslef too seriously. Plus, he doesn't have to worry about his lameness as a musician if he just continues the Woody Guthrie-esque "liberal macho" posturing in his publicity photos and interviews - that contrived folksiness (didja know Bruce has never held down a job in his life?) has never failed to piss me off, seeing as how many well-meaning people will forgive aesthetic mediocrity if the artist is POLITICALLY right on.

This announcement comes as a relief; maybe NOW people will start realizing what a fraud this braying jackass is.

ON EDIT: having said that, "Reason to Believe" is a pretty good song, though. Bruce's fans would do well to go back and listen to the lyrics.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

35. Well, actually, he has, in fact, held a job

He's been working as a singer/songwriter all his life. So has Bob Dylan. So has Don Henley So has Elton John. So has Jackson Browne. So has Bob Seger. So have most people who make their living in the music business.

How does that detract from him singing about working class people? I write about people who commit suicide and snatch dead bodies, but I have never done either of those things in my life. Does that make me a fraud, too?

Honestly, your diatribe probably made you feel better, since you wrote of "relief," but what it shows is that you're really, really jealous of his success.

Condemn his music, if you don't like it, but, jesus, ragging on him because he "has never held down a job in his life" is just such a dumb thing to say.

[RandomKoolzip]

42. Fuck, that's not work.

I'm a musician too. Maybe in the early days when he had to hump his own gear, Bruce was working. But then again, he got signed by John Hammond as an exclusively ACOUSTIC act, so I guess that wasn't much of an option either. Professional musician? Yes, there's some sort of work involved - but it's just a plain fact (it's in Dave Marsh's biography, to name one source) that Bryce Stingstream has never had a REAL job. Not the kind of job that involes physical labor, gaining your bread by your sweat, anyway. Make of that what you will; at least Woody Guthrie had the werewithal to go out and live an itinerant life before deciding to be the "authentic" voice of the working class.


I've been a musician all MY life. Ever since my first exposure to "The Boss"'s music (hearing "Born to Run" at the age of seven in my uncle's van) made me retch, I've had an antipathy to his music for AESTHETIC reasons: I don't like how it sounds (pretentious, overblown, corny). I still went out and BOUGHT all of his stuff, anyways, since I'm pretty comprehensive about this shit, and found maybe two or three songs of his that I enjoy - typically the shit he did when he was trying really hard to be Van Morrsion ("Spirit in the Night," "Rosalita"). The rest of it sounds almost like a parody of "rock passion" to me. (Give me Graham Parker over Bruce any day of the week!) Call me idiosyncratic - but for god's sake don't take this shit personally: he's not your brother, or a hero; he's just a guy makin' money, doin' his earnest shtick. Okay, so: So those two facts (me being a musician and me not liking his music) have nothing to do with each other - thus, the tired old "the critic is jealous of the artist's sucess" bullshit doesn't apply. I've always pursued a non-commercial muse with the stuff I play musically, anyhow.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

50. I'm bogus, too

I've never held a job that required sweating, so I guess I'm just a poseur as an attorney and a novelist and essayist.

What an absurd claim.

And your jealousy is showing. I'm not surprised to learn that you're a "musician." So you didn't make it big like he did. How does Springsteen's success diminish your own satisfaction with your art? If it does, you're totally fucked.

So, listen - I take none of this personally, but you surely do. And that, sadly, is why you're so angry.

Merry Christmas.

[RandomKoolzip]

56. Oh boy.

:eyes:

Look, I thought I explained that pretty well in the last post. I'm not jealous of Bryce's success. I quote my post above: "I've always pursued a non-commercial muse." i.e., as a musician, I've always been into, and performed, music that wasn't designed for mass consumption, except for a short period when I thought that I could make it big as a power-pop bassist (naively, I forgot that Americans, by and large, fuckin' HATE power pop). That period lasted about three years, and I'm 34 years old.

The rest of my life, I've been in hardcore bands, free improv bands, Beefheart-styled "weird" jam bands, riot grrrl bands, and now I'm in a band that plays punk rock with bluegrass instruments. Sure, it woulda been nice to make a living off of my skills, but if I REALLY had wanted a shot at the brass ring, I would have learned how to be a DJ, or tailored whatever i was doing to the expectations of some marketplace - a marketplace I've always purposefully shunned.

You DO realize that there's more than just the "popular" music sphere, correct? Like, there's a whole UNIVERSE of non-commercial music that's too abrasive, too strange, too offensive, too challenging to "make it," and it's that way by design. This is the universe I've always been part of (y'know, just as this is DEMOCRATIC underground, so have I been a part of the musical underground). In other words, i don't give a tin shit about acheiving success with my music on the level that Bryce Stringspleen has, and neither do Derek Bailey, D. Boon + Mike Watt, Alan Licht, Robert Pollard, Mary Halvorson, etc. THESE are musicians *I* admire. It's been this way since I was a kid - the whole "Born in the USA" thing happened when i was 9, and I really didn't like him back then - this was BEFORE I decided to become a musician. So, like I said, my not "making it big" has NOTHING to do with my dislike of this particular musician's music. I don't like it on AESTHETIC GROUNDS (I hate to keep using capital letters, but there seems to be no other way of emphasizing this point and making you understand it). I.e. his music doesn't move me, and never has, and in fact it's like the exact OPPOSITE of the kind of sounds I like to hear. And like I said above, i STILL went out and bought all his output just to see if I was missing something (i.e. I'm not just talking out of my ass here)

Look, It's all very easy to accuse someone who criticizes a public figure of jealousy. It's the oldest trick in the book. I think my criticisms of this particular public figure are valid; you, however, are a REALLY BIG FAN of said public figure - he MEANS something to you, something personal. Thus, when I take a shot at the guy, you get upset. That's natural. i understand. But the same principle applies to music that applies to politics; after all, very few on this board have actually held public office, yet we all feel compelled to sound off on what lousy jobs they're doing. Like I said, you shouldn't take it personally. People take potshots at the shit *I* like all the time, and I shrug it off. However, if i see a public figure with no clothes on, and every other fuckin' person extant insists they see him sporting a flannel shirt and tight jeans and a...headband, then I'm going to say something. Sorry!

By the way, you should see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAMFHT6BGO0

The Minutemen mean, to me, what it seems like Splinkstreet means to many others. i think they did, with this song, what Springsteeth THOUGHT he was doing with his music (i.e bringing dignity and a song to the financially disenfranchised), and these guys were ACTUALLY working class dudes - and they boiled his whole ouevre down to two minutes and ten seconds!


PS; I DID mention that "Reason to Believe" is a good song, right? i think the lyrics have something to say about the discussion we're having right now. Hint: this is a song of nihilism, not hope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYpgCuLMzp0

[riverdeep]

40. He's never held down a job?

He's a musician, that's his job.

[RandomKoolzip]

43. I'm a musician AND I work two (2!) jobs.

Believe me: there's a difference.

[brucefan]

45. You must not

be very good.

[RandomKoolzip]

46. I wouldn't be able to hold down those jobs if I wasn't very good at them.

Oh, wait...were you talking about something else?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

52. Some of us

make enough money with our artistic endeavors so that we're not required to work two jobs.

[RandomKoolzip]

57. Some of us have six fingers on each hand. What's yer point?

[DainBramaged]

28. I'm throwing all of his cd's in the garbage when I get home

oh wait, I don't OWN any of his cd's, as a matter of fact, I never liked his music. How can I protest, hmmmmmmmm, I know I'll bitch and moan here and then go to a fansite and badmouth him, yeah, because he sucks.

:rofl:

[lpbk2713]

29. Didn't the Eagles do the same deal a few years back?

I didn't buy them, I won't buy him either.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

32. Exactly

Meanwhile, they were playing $300,000/night gigs for Arab royalty.

That's when I knew they were not for me.

[lanlady]

30. I don't care for his music anyway

Boring and repetitive and that constant "clanging" annoys me.

:shrug:

[KamaAina]

34. Et tu, Bruce?

It was bad enough that AC/DC finked out on us. But this?

I may seriously have to rethink any future visits to Mom and Republican Stepdad's place on the Jersey Shore, just a couple of towns north of Asbury Park, N.J.

[treestar]

37. Wouldn't working class people be more likely to shop in a Walmart?

And aren't the prices cheaper there? Some blue collar people work there, too.

And furthermore, it seems in question whether Bruce deals with this stuff directly.

I know we're supposed to hate the Chinese and the Mexicans and all that, but sometimes things are not that simple. Maybe more people can afford his music if they buy it from there.

I'm sure he's a wealthy guy, but his heart's in the right place.

We don't have to condemn everybody over everything.

[baldguy]

53. Paying to support jobs in third world counties that *they* used to work at here.

It's a vicious cycle.

[Dukkha]

39. Eagles did the same thing

and their music sucks!

no one cares about artistic integrity anymore or simply doing the right thing and putting a conscience before business

[riverdeep]

41. Weird, I was listening to Bruce when I clicked on this thread.

'Atlantic City', off of 'Nebraska'. A song about desperate people in desperate times.



Well, they blew up the chicken man in Philly last night
Now, they blew up his house, too
Down on the boardwalk theyre gettin ready for a fight
Gonna see what them racket boys can do

Now, there's trouble bustin' in from outta state
And the D.A. cant get no relief
Gonna be a rumble out on the promenade
And the gamblin' commissions hangin' on by the skin of his teeth

Well now, evrything dies, baby, thats a fact
But maybe evrything that dies someday comes back
Put your makeup on, fix your hair up pretty
And meet me tonight in Atlantic city

Well, I got a job and tried to put my money away
But I got debts that no honest man can pay
So I drew what I had from the central trust
And I bought us two tickets on that coast city bus

Now, baby, evrything dies, honey, thats a fact...

Now our luck may have died and our love may be cold
But with you forever I'll stay
We're goin out where the sands turnin to gold
Put on your stockins baby, `cause the nights getting cold
And maybe everything dies, baby, that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back

Now, I been lookin for a job, but its hard to find
Down here its just winners and losers and don't
Get caught on the wrong side of that line
Well, I'm tired of comin out on the losin end
So, honey, last night I met this guy and I'm gonna
Do a little favor for him

Well, I guess everything dies, baby, thats a fact...