If you don't believe in an animal's ability to be cognative, here's a WTF moment for you.

[Shardik]

http://www.4shared.com/file/49290965/291162a0/Inspiration_Peak__Elephant_Painting2.html

This is unfuckingbelievable.

[damntexdem]

1. Oh, I guess elephants can be cognitive.

Just not Republicans. ;-)

[nebenaube]

2. OMG

Prehistoric Cave art made by Mammoths!!!!!! I'm seriesly drunk! :sarcasm: That's pretty cool tho...

[JuniperLea]

3. Whoa! Even snopes says this one is true!

I'm stunned, and delighted!

[Shardik]

5. That's good to hear.

At first, I had my doubts, but the camera kept going back and forth without showing a helping hand or other guiding thing.

Do you have the Snopes link?

[JuniperLea]

7. Here you go...

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/elephantpainting.asp

The explanation says they are following instructions and are taught to paint what the teacher wants them to paint... still, it's pretty amazing that they can do this.

[parasim]

8. Here's the link

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/elephantpainting.asp

However, it also notes that the elephants are trained to do these paintings.

My guess is that the elephant had no idea it was an elephant it was painting.

on edit... wow, i'm a slow typist... sorry about the dupe

[JuniperLea]

11. A lot of people I know couldn't do as well as these elephants...

No mater how much training.

[Shardik]

16. No prob about the dupe. There are some good link in the Snopes

piece. You can even buy some elephant art if you want to spend $5-$700.00 on it here http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/default.php

Maybe it didn't, but the care it seemed to take in placing the brush was amazing. I'm gonna start training my dog to blog for me after this. :)

[patrick t. cakes]

4. my only question is

can they be trained to do this?

very amazing to watch.

[annabanana]

I WOULD like to get a close look at the canvas before the paint

in applied. Just to see if there is some kind of an outline...

[shadowknows69]

25. That entered my mind

If not then, HOLYFUCKINSHIT that elephant can PAINT!!!!

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. I wonder how many times they shocked the elephant to get it to do that!

Poor thing.

[SammyWinstonJack]

20. Why would you even think that?

:shrug:

[Cronus Protagonist]

70. Oh, let's just say I'm a realist: - link enclosed

http://www.elephantnaturefoundation.org/go/entry71

What most people didn't realize is that the elephant painting was, in fact, real and elephants are, in fact, highly intelligent. But the reason an elephant can paint isn't because of intelligence alone. It's because an elephant has been forced to learn to paint, often by enduring brutal training methods.

What most people didn't realize is that by clamoring to buy an elephant painting, they were creating a larger market for such methods.

And what most people didn't realize is that by creating a larger market, two elephants - a Mama and a baby - who had been living a peaceful life at Elephant Nature Park for the past two years, were taken back by their owner and taken away from the Park, so that he could have the baby trained to paint. The training will be the first time the baby is ever separated from his Mother, the first time he will have pain inflected upon him, the first time he will learn to fear human beings, all in order to make him submit, all so that he learns how to hold that paintbrush, all so that he memorizes how to paint that painting.

[FloridaJudy]

22. They didn't

These elephants are cared for at a refuge for aged and/or abused animals run by animal rights activists. They sell the animals' art to pay for their upkeep. Anyone who's ever had a companion animal can tell you that they learn much better when rewarded for doing well than when punished for behaving badly.

I've never met an elephant, but everything I've read leads me to believe that they're intelligent, sociable critters. Usually animals like that enjoy learning new skills - it's in their biological interest to be wired that way.

You can learn more about the project and buy the elephant's art here: http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/splash.php

[Joe Chi Minh]

29. They also mourn for a while when they come across the bones of a dead

elephant they presumably knew. I've seen that on a TV documentary.

[FloridaJudy]

35. They'll also care for an ailing member of the herd

Bringing her water and food, and holding her up when she falters. I've also seen pictures of a herd protecting one of their members who was being sexually assaulted. BTW, elephant herds are almost all female - adult males tend to be solitary. They drive off the male offspring at puberty, which makes a great deal of sense when it comes to avoiding in-breeding. And I guess a female elephant is big enough and tough enough - particularly when she's got sisters guarding her back - not to need a male protector.

I feel sorry for the males, though, even if some of them act like jerks. It's not just a human failing.

[illuminaughty]

57. I was just getting ready to post this about the elephants mourning.

Amazing and wonderful creatures.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/805527/elephant_intelligence_why_elephants.html?cat=47

Elephant Intelligence: Why Elephants Might Be as Smart as Humans

[Joe Chi Minh]

67. Christ didn't point to the street dogs as exemplars of minimal compassion,

so notably absent in many of own our species, for nothing.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. I know you want to believe that, but the truth is not congruent with your beliefs

Sorry to be the one to break the news to you, but animals only paint pictures if they are rigorously trained.

http://www.elephantnaturefoundation.org/go/entry71

[Cetacea]

76. They have a larger temporal lobe. This is probably a cake walk

Yes, they are merely being polite. What I'd like to know is what they do in THEIR reality, not ours.

[Maru Kitteh]

28. Insecure.

Those who cling desperately to the antiquated, self-soothing notion that there is this insurmountable, vast chasm between "the great man" animal and the other animals who cohabit this phenomena called life.

[Sanctified]

56. You know they are taught to paint right?

Elephants do not paint anything without being taught how to paint it, they cannot paint based upon imagination only reproduce what they were taught.

[Richard D]

62. I took art classes to learn to paint . . .

. . . and never got as good as those elephants.

[Sanctified]

63. You probably would have if you were forced to do it for hours a day every day. n/t

[Cronus Protagonist]

64. Gosh, you must have had a very, very poor teacher

OR a serious motor disability to do worse than an elephant at painting.

[Richard D]

68. Not either . . .

. . . well, maybe a bad teacher. But my art manifests in other areas.

[Cronus Protagonist]

72. Of course, I"ve never claimed that at all

But I see you enjoy verbal masturbation. Maybe you should get a mirror and have a conversation with a live human. :)

[backscatter712]

9. It's not just elephants.

Some birds, such as ravens & crows, and parrots (especially African Greys) are very intelligent. Ravens can figure out little puzzles, like pulling up a string with a bit of food on the end with their beaks and feet, and Alex the African Grey not only talked, but has learned to count and even have simple conversations.

[XemaSab]

17. Alex died last year

There's a book out about him by Dr. Pepperburg.

[backscatter712]

18. I heard an interview of her, discussing that book.

I think that was her, on NPR a couple weeks ago.

RIP Alex. :(

[BlueIris]

10. Got to love the elephants.

I still don't feel enough is known about them.

[JuniperLea]

13. Elephants, whales, dolphins...

Gorillas... we don't know enough about many of the wonderful beasts who share this planet with us.

[BrklynLiberal]

30. Koko the Gorilla is a prime example of that.

http://www.koko.org/friends/
http://www.koko.org/friends/significance.koko.html


Koko is a 35 year-old lowland gorilla who learned to speak American Sign Language when she was just a baby. Her teacher, Dr. Penny Patterson, began working with Koko as a Ph.D. project at Stanford, thinking it would only be a 4-year study.

Thirty-some years later, Penny and Koko continue to work together at the Gorilla Foundation in one of the longest interspecies communication studies ever conducted, the only one with gorillas. Koko now has a vocabulary of over 1000 signs, and understands even more spoken English.

Koko has become famous not only for her language capabilities, but also her heart-warming relationship with kittens (captured in the book Koko's Kitten). As Penny says, "she's just as much a person as we are."
Koko Signs "Love"

Koko's greatest desire is to have a baby. She has indicated that she will teach her children sign language, which will engender the next generation of interspecies communication.

[JuniperLea]

31. Koko is the gorilla I had in mind when I posted this...

I love her! I would love to meet her...

We know so little.

[BrklynLiberal]

34. You are so right. we know so little.

There was a story out of Australia about a group of dolphins who surrounded a group of swimmers.
At first they did not know why the dolphins were doing this, until they spotted the sharks.
The dolphins circled around the people until the sharks disappeared.

Just one of many, many stories that we are amazed at because we know so little.

[JuniperLea]

36. That gave me chills!

Great story. What wonderful creatures!

Oh drat! I have something in my eye;)

[BrklynLiberal]

45. It was off the coast of New Zealand, not Australia. Here are articles.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/oddities/105599/dolphins_shield_swimmers_from_shark/index.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4034383.stm
The swimmers were surrounded by the dolphins for 40 minutes before they were able to make it safely back to the beach.

Marine biologists say such altruistic behaviour is not uncommon in dolphins.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200411/s1249440.htm
They started to herd us up, they pushed all four of us together by doing tight circles around us," Howe said.

When he tried to drift away from the group, two of the bigger dolphins herded him back.

He then saw why. A three-metre great white shark was cruising toward the group about two metres below the surface.


http://www.dawn.com/weekly/yworld/archive/041127/yworld11.htm

[burythehatchet]

51. I wonder what they think of us

[dysfunctional press]

12. anyone who doesn't believe that animals are cognitive has never had a mammalian pet.

nt

[laconicsax]

14. This has been posted here before. The elephant is trained to paint that exact picture.

It doesn't know what it's painting, just that it's supposed to make those exact brush strokes. It speaks to the fine motor control that the elephant has in its trunk and the intelligence required to learn complex skills more than anything else.

It's part of the Asian Elephant Art & Conservation Project (http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/splash.php). The elephants are trained to paint various things and the paintings are sold to fund the organization. The elephant in the video is trained to paint an elephant with flowers, some are trained to paint just flowers, but the elephants that paint whatever they want make paintings that are dramatically different.

[Shardik]

23. I'm sorry for the repost.

I just had never seen it before and was amazed by it. Thanks to some previous posters in the thread, I have visited the conservancy site and saw even the same painting for sale.

So while I agree that it is a bit of rote memorization for the pachyderms, it is an amazing exhibition of cognative ability for them to learn to recreate a two dimensional rendering.

[laconicsax]

27. I think the last time it was posted was almost a year ago.

It's not clear if they're aware of what they're doing beyond moving the brush in a way they're trained to do. If they recognize that their paintings are two-dimensional renderings, then that would be an amazing discovery, until then, it's just speculation.

[DonEBrook]

33. I know, it's so funny...when the trainers say "paint whatever you want" they end up with

pictures of naked women.


:rofl:

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. Pretty amazing!

[Jamastiene]

19. ...

:wow:

[bklyncowgirl]

21. He has a good strong line--better than most humans

Nice sense of color too. I've seen paintings by other species i.e. primates--even horses the ReRun Thoroughbred rescue group sells paintings by various equine celebrities. All are very abstract--to say the least.

This is the first time I've seen an animal do a figurative picture. What's remarkable is the dexterity the elephant has. Even if he was trained to do this and isn't creating it on this own (did I see a guy showing the elephant pictures of flowers?) the fact that he could make such delicate movements with this trunk is amazing.

Does an elephant know he's an elephant and not an aardvark. Sure. Hell, my dogs have been able to distinguish breeds of dogs that they like and breeds of dogs they don't like. No German Shepherds allowed at my residence but my gay Border Collie has the hots for male Labradors--especially black ones.

My horse knows another Thoroughbred when he sees one--wanna race brother? Let's go! He never challenged his Belgian/Quarter Horse paddockmate (or maybe he did and the experience was so boring he never did it again!)

All I can say about this is Go Jumbo!

[tblue37]

48. I have noticed Afghan Hounds responding especially to other Afghans.

They do seem to recognize their own breed.

[Kermitt Gribble]

24. That's amazing!

The Clearwater Marine Aquarium here has a few dolphins that paint - they are truly amazing! I have a print hanging on my wall - most people can't believe it was painted by a dolphin.

[VOX]

26. Even if every brushstroke has been trained, it's still remarkable...

Doesn't matter if the elephant is on some sort of rote "pilot" -- it nevertheless executes the brush strokes. The fact that the elephant can even be *trained* to do this is really amazing.

[stillcool]

32. that is amazing..

I can't paint, but I think I'll try Jumbo's technique with the flower.

[Patiod]

37. My cat could do that

but she doesn't want to

lack of thumb a key hinderance as well

:)

seriously - this is cool in a lot of ways - that there's an organization set up to care for them, that the elephants can do this (copying or not)

[snake in the grass]

58. Cats can do anything....

[pacalo]

38. This is amazing!

I had no idea what he was going to draw, didn't expect much, but once I caught on to what he was drawing my eyes teared up. That this animal was able to learn this is just astounding.

Thanks so much for the video. I also found it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GezRZCVM-4

[IDemo]

39. Why Elephants Paint (and How You Can Help)

I found this article from the Elephant Nature Foundation after Googling "exotic world gifts elephant painting". It tends to confirm my suspicions upon seeing the video: Elephants, although highly intelligent, don't tend to mimic human behaviors such as painting or producing music without undergoing a great deal of "training".

Several months ago, a video was uploaded to YouTube by a company specializing in "exotic world gifts." This video showed a
young elephant painting a self-portrait. The reception to the video was enormous - within days it was posted to thousands of
blogs, websites, and news outlets around the world. People debated whether or not it was real. People commented that it was
a sign of intelligence. People asked where they could go to see an elephant paint in person. People declared that they would
definitely want to buy an elephant painting for themselves.

What most people didn't realize is that the elephant painting was, in fact, real and elephants are, in fact, highly
intelligent. But the reason an elephant can paint isn't because of intelligence alone. It's because an elephant has been
forced to learn to paint, often by enduring brutal training methods.

More -> http://www.elephantnaturefoundation.org/go/entry71

[Truth Teller]

40. Nothing cognitive about it

If you go to the website, you'll see different elephants are trained to paint different lines - they don't free lance it or know what they're painting.

[Hawkowl]

47. Specious

Your argument could be made about most human artists. They are trained to paint as well. What the elephant is actually thinking can not be proven, but I would argue that to accurately depict flowers as well as they do, they must have some idea of what they are doing.

[Lorien]

52. As a professional artist I agree

the deliberate way the elephant was working is no different than the deliberate way my fellow animation artists worked at Disney. We had model sheets showing us how to draw each an every character, and we were no good at drawing those characters until we'd done it many times. I don't see much of a difference here; we were both working to replicate something with lines so we could eat and keep a roof over our heads!

[Truth Teller]

61. Didn't claim to be able to read elephants' minds

I read the website.

The animlas are trained to follow lines. That is completely different than taking a visual in your mind and replicating it on paper.

[Carni]

41. That video is so mind boggling it's hard to believe

I KNOW that animals are cognitive but that is over the top!

[aikoaiko]

42. That's just a circus trick (a very cool one) and not really a good demo of animal cognition.

IMHO.

[Cetacea]

78. Agreed. Lou Herman's work with dolphins is very impressive

Years ago he signed two dolphins who were doing their usual routines to "do something new" in tandem and within two or three seconds both dolphins did just that.

There are other experiments that strongly suggest that dolphins can do solve abstract problems faster than adult humans.

The communication barrier is very frustrating.

[bvar22]

43. I don't care if they can paint, but ....

....if they can do the Will of the People, I'd support replacing Pelosi & Reid with elephants.

[Sewsojm]

44. Check this out,

Warning you see one dog hit by a car, another dog comes drags the injured dog to safety, absolutely amazing


http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/04/dog-drags-another-injured-dog-to-safety/

[BrklynLiberal]

46. If only we knew there was a happy ending for the 2 dogs...

[tblue37]

50. The dog that was hit died. The "hero" dog was never found, though the police

sought it, since the public wanted it taken care of for its heroism.

[stuntcat]

79. I'd wondered how it ended

I hope that dog has someone somewhere caring for it. That was probably it's brother or something that it was trying to help.

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. That painting sucks! Bad elephant! Bad!

It's an extraordinary feat of animal training.

Wanna impress me? Get it to say "Obama"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuKqWEYzhEA

:rofl:

[stewartcolbert08]

53. I WANT ONE!

That is so freakin cool!

[RedCappedBandit]

54. I found this interesting as well

less interesting when I learned they were taught to paint a shape that is most likely meaningless to them.

Also interesting is the fact that chimpanzees can communicate with humans through sign language!

[kentuck]

55. Damnedest thing I ever saw !

:-)

[sohndrsmith]

59. If anyone thinks that animals are not "cognitive", intelligent, feeling or

communicative, they don't know elephants or whales very well - and that's just for starters...

Elephants are absolutely incredible, and we've yet to understand half of what their social structures are or what they know, understand or comprehend. It's a heck of a lot more than we give them credit for - generally...

Ask Jane Goodall... some (if not all) animals communicate, feel, love, grieve, protect, nurture, fear... and are clearly capable of interacting through language - which is likely not defined as we "expect" it to be, measurable in ways we consider valid, or even comprehensible within our limited expectations of what language/communication "should" be or "is". Pshaw to that! That we don't understand or recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't exist for cripes sake! heck... I can't wait until research bears this out more blatantly so we can treat our fellow inhabitants of this earth with the consideration they deserve... (just saying)...

Wait 10-20 years... it won't sound so crazy. I was relieved when Goodall said this stuff instead of just me sounding like a lunatic to my family and friends (non-expert that I am in any and all things). It sounds a lot less crazy coming from her, and gave me a modicum of credibility... well, not really.

I saw a documentary about an elephant family and the story of their migration from one area to another because of drought, if I recall correctly (I may not be accurate on all my details, but I absolutely remember the gist of one particular scene). I dare any mother - or any parent for that matter - to watch this one segment of the film and not have an immediate, visceral connection to her emotional state and despair, what we'd call "human" for lack of a better word - as if she were someone we knew or could know:

At one point during this long, waterless, difficult journey, a younger, weaker elephant succumbed to the heat, thirst, hunger, or exhaustion or all combined, and her mother took great lengths to get her up, at first (it seemed to me) to be annoyed, like I might be with my daughter dallying when it was not appropriate, wise or safe to do so... she was diligent, clearly with one purpose on her mind - and that was to get her daughter up. It was not reflexive, it was not robotic, or innate instinct... it was panic. It was pain. It was desperation, frustration, confusion, disbelief. It was absolutely emotional, and all-consuming in a way that "animals" are not supposed to be sophisticated enough to experience. This elephant blasted that theory better than any scientific journal might do in many more words with far less clarity.

The older elephant continued prodding her dying daughter to the point of near exhaustion herself it seemed, but the young elephant would never get up, and probably died before the filmmakers even acknowledged it - I don't know.

That single event was incredible and heart-wrenching enough, but it didn't end there because, seeing the mother's distress (and likely - at least initially - unnerved at the danger any disruption that caused a delay in their already dangerous journey) the other elephants responded... all of them. When the young elephant lay motionless, they each took turns touching their lost loved one - individually, tenderly, unmistakably showing an emotional connection and loss - despite the delay, it seemed. Just as one would expect humans to offer respectful acknowledgment regardless of external plight, even briefly. But they took their time. It was beyond remarkable.

The mother found it incredibly difficult to leave her child and move on, and it was almost too painful to watch... The grief, indecision, distress and trauma exhibited by this elephant when her daughter did not get up and had to be abandoned, against every protective instinct - was so clearly understood - through her body language and sound and expression and more... it could have been any mother or parent pr sibling or partner or soul that loved and cared for another, looking on helplessly while the one they loved was beyond help. There is no other way the scene could have been interpreted. Not that I know of, anyway. The older elephant not only communicated with (and painfully recognizing her inability to help) her dying daughter, but communicated with anyone watching her - the reality of her despair.

The entire thing convinced me even more that we aren't even close to understanding a smidgen of the complexity of the emotional and interactive experience of many (or all) non-human lives. That's my take on it anyway...

Thanks for posting.

[Cetacea]

75. We are very ignorant when it comes to non-human intelligence

In regards to our treatment of other beings with brains as complex and/or more complex than our own: who are the real beasts?

[Blarch]

60. The ele is being guided by the trainer.

The ele can't paint, and doesn't know what it ios painting.

[LanternWaste]

65. Wonderful video and thanks...

Wonderful video and thanks for allowing us the opportunity to view it! Much appreciated!

(I've noticed that in almost every feel-good thread, there always seems to be a small number of posters who, in the name of science and self-validation, tend to piss on positive emotions).

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

66. My son just said to me... Mom, it was cruel of you to show me that an elephant can paint better than

I can! BTW... and yes, it is unfuckingbelievable! Recommended!

[robinlynne]

69. amazing....

[uppityperson]

73. OK, I'm impressed. That is very cool. Thank you for this, needed some good positive something. k&R

[blaze]

74. This reminded me of Shirley and Jenny

I don't remember how long ago I saw this story... but it's based at an elephant sanctuary in Tennesee...

Shirley had just been rescued and was extremely tentative about her new surroundings... until she saw Jenny again! They had lived together, TWENTY TWO YEARS AGO, for just a year, in a circus and remembered each other!!

It was a sweet, sweet story and I don't think the web site does it justice, but it's a wonderful story anyway.

http://www.elephants.com/shirley/shirleypic2.htm

[A-Schwarzenegger]

77. Look Out for the Animals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=624815