Jesus wants you to take your clothes off. All of them. NOW.

[saltpoint]

We know this is what he wants because he tells us:

“His disciples said:
On what day will you appear to us,
and on what day will we see you?
Jesus said:
When you undress yourselves and are not ashamed,
and take your clothing and lay them under your feet like little children,
and tread on them; then you will become sons of the Living One
and you will have no fear.”

--Gospel of Thomas, Verse 38


And don’t give me any bullshit about this quote coming from an apocryphal text. That’s a bogus argument from the word Go. I’ve never respected it. There’s no reason I SHOULD respect it. There were any number of “books” in use by Christian communities all over the damn Middle East before, during, and after Jesus showed up. Only a handful got canonized.

That kind of fussy, arbitrary selection doesn't’t work for me. It reminds me of an election in Florida in more recent times. If the early bishops of the Church want to get selective and autocratic, and when did they ever not want to, the best thing we can do about it now is ignore their exclusivity. Some of the apocryphal texts are pretty cool, too. A few of them are very cool. Some of them have more zing than the canonized texts. Plenty of zing and lots of it. Check ‘em out.

Ok, we’ll start with you, Pope Benedict. Off with the duds. Those red shoes? Take them off first. I never liked them to begin with. If St. Francis can get naked in the village square, so can you. Francis of Assisi started as a privileged young man wearing imported fabric but soon became the humble servant of others. One notes the contrast.

Next, Lynndie England. Off with your uniform, young lady. You taunted naked Iraqis and now it’s fitting and proper that you experience some humility. Get naked. Right now. That’s an order.

And you – Ted Haggard. Off with your … Oh. You’re ALREADY naked. And say, what’s that line of white powdery stuff on the night stand?


DISCLOSURE OF PURPOSE.

In this segment I reveal that I don’t have any interest in seeing the Pope naked, or Lynndie England, or anyone else. Per se. Prurient interest thrives in the world without my having to promote it. But I like how in Thomas’ Gospel, Jesus smushes together contexts that usually are sharply separated. What fun.

Also, Jesus has a high-voltage spiritual profile. Among the world’s Christians he’s top dog, The Big Guy, the number 4 hitter in the line-up. So if he’s jabbering like a magpie about folks getting naked, well, it lends authority to their doing so, even as it points to a wider landscape. While we’re all undressing, The Big Guy’s got something up his sleeve.

So I invoke the Box Office Bruiser from Galilee, and this post rides his admonition in Thomas’ Gospel toward the Kingdom.


BUT WHAT’S THE KINGDOM ACTUALLY LIKE, OLD CRUSOE?

You’re asking ME? I’m not even Christian. I don’t have a clue in hell. There are any number of people on DU’s boards you should ask before you ask me.

In fact, before you ask me, you should ask this dog:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgjyhKN_35g

I don’t think anybody can get any closer to the Kingdom than that dog did on that highway. I love Barack Obama. I do. He’ll be TIME’s Person of the Year. But this dog deserves it even more. That dog GETS Christianity better than any televangelist I’ve ever heard, hands down.

To get to the Kingdom you have to know the plane’s on fire. If I have to weave a parachute to jump out of the plane, for materials I need to look among the scraps of humility and compassion piled over there by the dumpster, or misplaced in alleyways, or abandoned in scrub forests along seldom-used paths. It would not be a fine and shiny store-bought parachute, no. But it would be a very useful one just the same. It must be strong enough to hold many.

More on parachutes later.

And you have to undress, too, Jim Dobson. Oh, wait. You’re already naked, and showering. I forgot how much you like to flash your package. You prescribe eternal damnation for others’ sensuality yet parade around the house naked. Honestly, it’s hard to keep up with you fundamentalists.

Yes, Governor Palin, you have to get naked too. And as a point of reference, Governor, I can’t help but notice that your clothes appear to be quite a bit nicer than most of the rest of us. Nevertheless, the Galilean has issued specific instruction toward nakedness, and that includes you. What? Well, I think so, yes -- you can put them back on to go moose hunting later.


WHY JESUS WANTS US NAKED.

Jesus is pointing to the Kingdom. Let’s say for the sake of argument that he envisions one that isn’t ruled by heartless autocrats, the local authorities of the Roman Empire. Let’s say that he knows tensions historically run high between Rome and Palestine. Let’s say that he looks around at the caliber of governance by said local authorities and let’s say it pisses him off.

He sees pervasive suffering and anguish and wants to relieve it. Even non-Christians today can understand how this guy must have felt, what he must have been thinking. Because we have felt the same way and have thought the same things.

A great storm floods an American city and a president in effect ignores their plight. He ignores them.

Christian or not, we see Gulf Coast people desperately abandoned, that they are wet and cold and without recourse. We see that their children are frightened and crying. We see that they come to be collected and driven to a sports arena in Houston against conditions back in New Orleans. The president’s mother tells the media that their being placed in a sports arena is a step up from how the victims ordinarily live:

''What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them.”
(Barbara Bush)

http://www.boston.com/news/weather/articles/2005/09/08/mrs_bush_remarks_were_observation/

This is a plane ablaze. Parachutes are required.


SCRAWNY JEWS OF THE FIRST CENTURY.

So why should you and I pay any attention to some scrawny Jew of the first century blathering about nakedness? As delightful as physical nakedness truly is, the Galilean is likely speaking of spiritual nakedness. He seems to be arguing for humility, the kind that could advance slowly in the minds and hearts of people, or strike with sudden force, to change the way we think, to change the way societies are conducted.

And who among even non-Christians doesn’t root for an underdog? By the time the Roman Republic became the Roman Empire, challenging it was pretty tough going. Dissent was not felt to be a viable option among the populace, owing to the fatal consequences of telling local authorities that they were remorseless hacks. So we’re talking some serious gumption here, some visionary courage, some righteous fire in the blood, and titanium cajones.

The Galilean’s transition team was 12 guys and a prostitute. You religious scholars just shut your traps on whether Mary Magdalen was a prostitute. I already KNOW there is no evidence that she was. There’s also no evidence that Peter was an angler, either, although he might just as well have been. I’ve been an angler. I’ve never been a prostitute. And it doesn’t matter one damn. We must weave diverse parachutes.

Thirteen souls comprised the transition team from the deprivations and anguish of Roman-controlled Palestine to the Kingdom.

A diverse team was felt to be a big plus. Jesus didn’t appear to be shooting for a cadre of like-minded bobble-headed Yes-men. Or Yes-women. The path to the Kingdom likely looked to him like an ordeal-laden journey fraught with peril. Best to have a wide variety of folks assembled around one’s expedition.

HEY! Condoleezza Rice! You come back here this instant and get naked with everyone else. You’re nothing special. And isn’t it just like you to try sneaking out the back door. No go, little missy. Wipe that scowl off your face and lose your laundry.


PARACHUTES? WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO DO WITH THIS?

"I have woven a parachute out of everything broken."

(Poet William Stafford, on his own work)

The son of the woman who thought that the poor were doing better on cots in the Astrodome has broken many things. Shards of objects are strewn across the nation and across the world. Countries who trusted us more before Bush trust us far less now. On our own soil times are difficult and getting worse. Homes foreclose, shelters fill. Thrift shops become the Macy’s of the hard-pressed.

Bush has made a mess for the rest of us to clean up. We can manage the clean-up. Unlike Junior, we’re grown-ups. I include anyone from say, age 10 or so, in that assessment. If you’re upwards of 10 years old or so, you’re almost assuredly more emotionally mature than George W. Bush. We can do better than he has done us. We can do better than he did by our fellow citizens in New Orleans and by our global allies.


DID JESUS’ TRANSITION TEAM GIVE A GOOD GODDAM?

It appears that they did. Of course, the boss was pretty sure-footed in his directives. There was also the “He who has ears to hear, let him hear” vibe. I like that part a lot.

When folks showed up for the Sermon on the Mount, it seems to me that they got their money’s worth. Pretty good speechifier, that Jesus fellow.

They heard stuff they knew the Roman authorities would prefer not be spoken.

And they left naked. You can’t change anybody’s mind unless you can persuade them that they have to drop their duds and – this is from Thomas’ Gospel – STOMP upon said duds.

Put the Pope’s red shoes, Francis’ nice fabric, Janet Jackson’s malfunctioning blouse, and Governor Palin’s high-ticket outfits in one big pile and the rest of us, buck naked as the day we were born ("like children,” Thomas indicates) stomp on that pile of clothing. We stomp on it like children. We stomp like nobody’s business. We stomp knowing the Roman authorities are scowling a Condi scowl and summoning the soldiers to find us later in the garden.

“I might doubt the divinity of Jesus, but I believed absolutely in the naked youth who appears while Christ is being arrested and then runs off into the night. Why would he be mentioned, except that he did appear and run away in just that manner?

--Andrew Holleran, from Nights in Aruba, referencing MARK 14: 51-52

People in long-ago Palestine suffered. Jesus and his 13 disciples listened and tried to relieve their suffering. This is a secular assessment. It is a political act.

Bush has broken many things. Obama, a mere human (if a very gifted one), needs our help to fix what’s broken. Let us help collect what is needed to weave parachutes of rescue.

Had I lived in first-century Palestine I hope I would have had the clarity of purpose and the sheer balls to set aside my angling nets and follow the well-spoken scrawny guy down that difficult path. If Truth was on Jesus’ tongue, his loyal band surely knew that a narrative of nails could not be far behind.

En route to their goal, it is my impression that none of the 13 had a $150,000-plus monthly clothing budget. Sorry to single you out for ridicule, Gov. Palin, but facts are facts. I knew Mary Magdalen, Governor. Mary Magdalen is an admired personage of mine. Governor, you’re no Mary Magdalen.

And damn it, Jim Dobson, would you stop waving your wiener at us already? Quite frankly, it's nothing special, and besides, we have important work to do. You might give us a hand instead of braying like a jackass about stem cells and gay marriage.

Deprivation and suffering were not unique to the first century. But neither is the quest to relieve them. If the airplane catches fire, parachutes woven from the lives of the broken and the abandoned can offer rescue. To jump down is to be uplifted.


RIGHT NOW IS A REAL GOOD TIME.

Ask President-Elect Obama’s transition team to build into the expectations of his administration’s policies a heightened sensitivity to the plight of the poor. Certainly for low-income housing so that people can live with dignity. Certainly because people are homeless and hungry.

The Sermon on the Mount likely ran well under an hour. A concise email note to Obama’s transition team would run well under 10 minutes.

It’s not that much to ask. And the cause is historic and just. We’re all stark naked at the urging of a marquee-caliber religious celebrity. Jesus doesn’t want to see our pee-pees. He’s keenly interested in two other organs, though – our hearts and our minds.

Those who had ears to hear the Sermon on the Mount heard a world-changing address by a deeply thoughtful man.

If we have our hearts and minds attuned to fixing what Bush has broken, and 10 minutes, we can do a bit of world-changing too.

Write to President-Elect Obama’s transition team here:

http://www.change.gov/page/s/contact

Thanks, DU. A little naked stomping never hurt anybody.

--- ---
Deeply appreciative thanks to JeffR, bobbolink, and other DUers who inspired this request to contact the Obama transition team. You people rock.

[JVS]

1. Making doctrinal statements from apocryphal sources?

Welcome to ignore!

[Ian David]

3. Oh, come on... Jesus couldn't have anticipated the poor archival skills of his followers.

And if god didn't want it to be found, it would have stayed buried.

[nichomachus]

25. It wasn't poor archival skills

the original Christian texts were deliberately suppressed. They were hunted down and destroyed -- and replaced by the "canonized" texts which most Christians use today. Those were forged much later to promote literal Christianity preferred by the empire over the original Christian Gnostic beliefs. The only surviving Gnostic texts were some of the letters of Paul. They were written long before the current gospels. The rest of the stuff attributed to Paul is forged, which is what makes Paul look so schizophrenic.

So, the appeals to canonicity are just ludicrous. Just because they were approved by the literal Christians -- the ones who wanted to make Jesus a real person (which he was not) -- doesn't mean they are authentic in any way.

So, it's not that those who possessed the Gnostic texts were bad at preserving them. It's that they were actually pretty good at saving some of them from suppression.

Many people find the Gnostic texts hard to read -- and they are. But, so are the "canonized" texts, if you read them in the original. Most people, however, read them in translation, which has dumbed them down for mass consumption -- sort of like putting Shakespeare into People Magazine lingo.

[saltpoint]

9. As indicated in the text of the post, JVS, I'm not interested one whit in

which of the texts-in-use were canonized.

It doesn't matter to me one damn. Not at all.

I regard a text on its own merits set into whatever context it might suggest or which might be given to me. We have Lincoln at Gettysburg. We have Bly's translation of the Central and South American poets. We have Ginsberg in the grocery check-out line in California.

And we have Thomas, the Twin, from the far distant deserts.

[wtmusic]

13. Congratulations OC. It's a compliment. nt

[saltpoint]

15. Hi, wtmusic. thank you. God I love that image avatar of Palin.

[Hissyspit]

16. Wow.

Go ahead and prove that religion suppressed open thought and critical thinking.

[DutchLiberal]

35. Spoken like a true religious closed-minded zealot.

[Ian David]

37. And JVS tosses a grenade into the thread and promptly leaves.

That means we can all engage in rampant speculation about his motives and his meaning without interference now.

Who wants to go first?

[Ian David]

2. Gospel of Thomas is one of the Apocraphyia / gnostic tests

Gospel of Thomas
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Gospel According to Thomas (Coptic: ⲡⲉ̅ⲩ̅ⲁ̅ⲅⲅ̅ⲉⲗ̅ⲓⲟⲛ̅ ⲡⲕ̅ⲁ̅ⲧⲁ ⲑ̅ⲱ̅ⲙⲁⲥ), also known as The Gospel of Thomas, is a New Testament-era apocryphon, nearly completely preserved in a Coptic papyrus manuscript discovered in 1945 at Nag Hammadi, Egypt.

The text is in the form of a codex, bound in a method now called Coptic binding. It was written for a school of early Christians who claimed Thomas the Apostle as their founder. Unlike the four canonical gospels, Thomas is not a narrative account of the life of Jesus and is not worked into any overt philosophical or rhetorical context. Rather, it is logia, or gospel sayings, with short dialogues and sayings attributed to Jesus.

In the incipit, the writer is styled Didymus Judas Thomas. Didymus (Greek) and Thomas (Hebrew) both mean twin, and the name Judas (Greek: Ιούδας), also Jude or Judah, is the anglicized Greek rendering of the Hebrew name Yehudah (Hebrew: יְהוּדָה).

The work comprises 114 sayings attributed to Jesus. Some of these sayings resemble those found in the four canonical Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), while others were not known until its discovery. No major Christian group accepts this gospel as canonical or authoritative.

When this Coptic version of the complete text of Thomas was found, scholars realized that three separate portions of a Greek version of it had already been discovered in Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, in 1897<1>. In 1903 two more different fragments were discovered in Oxyrhynchus,<2> seemingly originating from the same collection of sayings bearing the Greek fragments of the Gospel of Thomas (P. Oxy. I 1; IV 654; IV 655) dating from between AD 200 to AD 250<3>, with another Greek fragment discovered in 1905 predating AD 200 <4>; the manuscript of the Coptic version dates to about 340. Although the Coptic version is not quite identical to any of the Greek fragments, it is believed that the Coptic version was translated from an earlier Greek version, itself recorded from an earlier oral version.

The original text was published in photographic facsimile in 1975. The James M. Robinson translation was first published in 1977, as part of The Nag Hammadi Library in English, (E.J. Brill and Harper & Row).<5> The Gospel of Thomas has been translated and annotated in several languages. The original manuscript is the property of Egypt's Department of Antiquities. The first photographic edition was published in 1956, and its first critical analysis appeared in 1959.<6>

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

[MineralMan]

6. It was all predicted here....

[otherlander]

60. VICTORY! FORGET YOUR UNDERWEAR WE'RE FREE!!!

:bounce:

[saltpoint]

8. Ian, hello, and thank you.

Excellent assessment and citation.

I hope others will give it a look.

[Ian David]

36. Oh dear god... have things gotten so bad that citing Wikipedia has become excellent citation?

Thanks though.

[saltpoint]

45. Honestly, I meant the messenger and not the castle he was riding from.

If someone on DU is not looking forward to your posts on this or any other topic, may the gods and goddesses have mercy on their soul.

[n2doc]

4. Trust me- Jesus DOES NOT want to see me naked! n/t

[saltpoint]

10. : )

[Gwendolyn]

30. I wonder what "Jesus" looked like.

Lol. Every culture depicts him as skinny. Since the beginning of rational Christian thought. Even skinnier by today's standards if you look at the early artistic renderings.

[Ian David]

38. Here is what Jesus probably looked like..

Yeshua of Nazareth:
What did he look like?

Which image looks more like Jesus?


n recent portrayals by Caucasian Christian artists, Yeshua ben Nazereth (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) has typically been shown with a light skin, a long "Presbyterian" nose, very long hair, and a height probably in excess of six feet. The face of Jim Caviezel, who plays Jesus in the movie "The Passion of the Christ," is similar to many modern-day images of Jesus. He is shown in the right picture above. Carlos F. Cardoza-Orlandi, associate professor of world Christianity at Columbia Theological Seminary in Atlanta, GA, commented: "While Western imagery is dominant, in other parts of the world he is often shown as black, Arab or Hispanic." 3 However, these have been based on pure speculation by the artists.

There have been at least two recent attempts at predicting what Yeshua actually looked like:
bullet

The center portrait above is based on the image on the Shroud of Turin, which is believed by some Christians to be the burial shroud of Jesus. It is of a man estimated to be 5' 11½" to 6' 2" tall. 1
bullet

Starting with the assumption that Jesus resembled a typical peasant from 1st century CE Palestine, Richard Neave, a medical artist retired from the University of Manchester in England, and a team of researchers "started with an Israeli skull dating back to the 1st century. They then used computer programs, clay, simulated skin and their knowledge about the Jewish people of the time to determine the shape of the face, and color of eyes and skin." 2 Mike Fillon followed the research and wrote an article about the portrait in "Popular Mechanics" magazine. 3 He said during a CNN interview that: "There are very strong rabbinical laws in Israel that you cannot tamper with a skull or any bones, so they needed to reconstruct the skull. Using a cat scan, which is very common in hospitals, they were able to recreate the skull precisely and make a cast of it. Then they put small wooden pegs, based on anthropological data, to figure out what the muscle structure and the skin would look like, and so they layered that on using clay-like substances." 4

The result is shown in the left portrait above: a person with abroad peasant's face, dark olive skin, short curly hair and a prominent nose. His height would have been on the order of 5' 1"; he would have weighed about 110 pounds. Alison Galloway, professor of anthropology at the University of California in Santa Cruz , said that: "This is probably a lot closer to the truth than the work of many great masters."

Jean Claude Gragard, used the left image in his documentary "Son of God," which was broadcast by the British Broadcasting Commission in 2001. He said: "Using archaeological and anatomical science rather than artistic interpretation makes this the most accurate likeness ever created. It isn't the face of Jesus, because we're not working with the skull of Jesus, but it is the departure point for considering what Jesus would have looked like." They guessed at the length of Jesus' hair on the basis of the reference by Paul that "If a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." They speculate that Paul would not have written this if Jesus Christ had had long hair?

<snip>

In his Popular Mechanics article, Mike Fillon argues that Jesus height, weight and facial features were probably close to the left portrait above. He wrote: "In North America he is most often depicted as being taller than his disciples, lean, with long, flowing, light brown hair, fair skin and light-colored eyes. Familiar though this image may be, it is inherently flawed. A person with these features and physical bearing would have looked very different from everyone else in the region where Jesus lived and ministered. Surely the authors of the Bible would have mentioned so stark a contrast. On the contrary, according to the Gospel of Matthew, when Jesus was arrested in the garden of Gethsemane before the Crucifixion, Judas Iscariot had to indicate to the soldiers whom Jesus was because they could not tell him apart from his disciples."

More:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcfa.htm

[Gwendolyn]

48. You forgot Hitler's depiction. A fat blonde baby. Other than that, Christ has

always been depicted as very thin, and gaunt.

I would say most people identify with the middle pic. It's a drarwing so it must be true.

[GodlessBiker]

5. You're taking that out of context. In context it means we should tithe 10% of our income to church.

:evilfrown:

[saltpoint]

7. So hang my ass.

[MindMatter]

26. And let the little boys spend plenty of private time

with the priests.

Jesus would want it that way.

[Ian David]

40. But his interpretation is much more interesting. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

11. With pleasure I send this page to the Greatest.

:applause:



:hi:

[saltpoint]

12. and that from a gifted sender indeed -- thank you for

being that gifted sender on so many of DU's posts, SwampRat.

You are fun unlimited on those images you give us but damn it all, the brain behind it is what makes the birds sing.

[Swamp Rat]

17. tweet!

:D

[bobbolink]

14. Thanks, Swampie! Did you write to Obama about low-income housing??

Your help with this would be much appreciated!!

How're things going now? Still a struggle?

You're in my thoughts!

:hi:

[saltpoint]

18. I like dogs.

I just happen to like them. I like cats, too, and fish, and giraffes, and so forth.

But me and dogs, we're pals.

The dog I include as the true Christian in the post is a mighty champion, IMO.

Damn but I love that dog.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. Great post...

[saltpoint]

20. - - - -

:hi:

[Qutzupalotl]

21. I like the GoT. I think much of it is intended non-literally,

which I realize sounds like a dodge, but hear me out...

Suppose by "naked and unashamed" he means "completely self-accepting"? Throwing off our old ways of hiding. Getting rid of pretense. With no egotism to defend, we have nothing to fear.

To me, that's the only way it makes sense.

I'm in the "nobody wants to see me naked anymore" camp too. :)

[saltpoint]

22. Hi. And yes, I think your take on the GoT is

especially close.

These texts from those desert communities are almost breath-taking in both practical personal politics and in their poetry.

It's an explosively interesting mix.

[DearAbby]

23. Get behind me SATAN

you're one of the false teachers, who he had predicted would come. Let me ask you....Do you really want to see this ol gal nakey?? GET BEHIND ME SATAN!

[saltpoint]

24. Hells bells, DearAbby. You couldn't be any older than I am.

You've blown my cover as a false teacher, prophetized in the Good Book.

And I walk among ye!

[RC]

27. This thread is missing something.

[saltpoint]

29. Hi, RC. I can't do visuals worth a damn. I'll defer to the truly gifted DUers

who can.

We've got some, too. They're out there.

[JimGinPA]

28. That Seems To Be An Awful Lot Of Words Used To Try And Get Someone Out Of Their Clothes

B-)

[saltpoint]

31. Homage must be paid to the prurient interest.

God bless Mae West.

[bobbolink]

32. Take off your clothes and write OBAMA NOW!!!

OK, there's something wrong in there somewhere, but I'm too loaded with hot choklit to figure it out....

~~gigglesnort~~

THanks Oldie!! :applause: :yourock:

[saltpoint]

33. bobbolink, not so fast. You're not getting out of here without a

boatload of praise and a thank you.

You've been working diligently for people who have no voice and speaking up for them when they cannot speak, plus, you got this post in one sentence flat.

All the blessings in town to your front door step.


:thumbsup: :hi:

[bobbolink]

57. The thanks go to you. It's a cliche' but really true that nobody can do a big effort alone.

Yes, I can and did write to Obama myself.... when I first thought of this.

BUT.. we all know that my one, lone voice wouldn't have done diddly.

Nobody would have danced nekid.

:rofl:

BUT.. you have taken this and run with it, and I'm deeply indebted to you!!

I've been talking to walls for so long, and now all of a sudden, this has caught fire, and I'm pulling my hair out, trying to keep up on my lousy two hours of computer time a day.

THEN, yesterday, out of the blue, a local musician offered to do a benefit concert "for the cause", if you can believe that.

And, IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THIS, I was speechless. Yes, moi, speechless.

NEVER would I have even thought of that!

Maybe there is some cause for hope, afterall.

Here's to you, Old guy, for keeping my spirits up! :toast:

[saltpoint]

67. bobbolink, you are livin' at the foot of The Cross,

and I mean that as sincerely as a non-Christian can mean it.

If that musician offered a concert for a fund raiser, my guess is that you are generating some mighty good karma in your neighborhood.

You community organizers are the very people Gov. Palin warned us all against!! -- and IMO she tried to warn us against community organizers because never in her life has she ever had to need the services of community organizers.

The woman has no respect for true citizenship.

And she'd be too selfish to acknowledge yours.

But yours stands strong just the same.

Hat's off to ya, ma'am.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

34. lol!

Just imagining a naked Ted Haggard makes me want to get up and make myself a cocktail and watch TV... Must get the naked image of Haggard out of my brain now! :rofl:

[Algorem]

39. I'm opening a nudie colony then.No fuglies allowed.

all that love your neighbor shit don't mean i have to look at no naked fuglies.

[Ian David]

41. Christian Nudist

Born naked, Die naked, enjoy LIFE naked!

Is it possible to be a Christian and enjoy clothing optional recreation / vacations / lifestyle? Yes, we do!

Is naturism (aka nudism) a sin? No!

If you consider yourself a Christian or "religious" person and you've never thought about simple social nudity (or only thought about it in a negative way), we'd ask you to ask yourself the questions we asked. As you ask these questions why do you believe what you believe? What is the theological / Biblical substantiation for your answer?

<snip>

What we discovered was there is such a thing as good nudity and that it is assumed in life. This truth of good nudity provides the theological answer to the questions we asked.

Our journey into the nudist world came as a result of a theological study (see Good Nudity) that was prompted by a series of life events. We have met many Christians in our naturist journey who also found the joys of clothes-free activities.

A Christian who enjoys clothing optional recreation is one that believes God has created the body and that the body is good. They have come to see that God does not forbid simple, non-sexual nudity. In fact, most Christian nudists feel that God has used naturism to add to their lives in the following ways:

§ Body Acceptance. Our culture has been brain washed by the Madison Avenue fashion experts who tell us in picture and words what a “perfect” body is like. How many times have you looked in the mirror and thought disparagingly at your body? Not enough muscle, undefined abs, too little breast, wide hips, or not enough hair, and so it goes. Naturism puts you in touch with your body and you see that others are “just like you.” Plus, you realize that the “super models” in life are really not that pretty nude and the magazine “centerfolds” are definitely airbrushed. Bottom line: you realize it doesn’t matter what you look like.

§ Body Demystification. We are all curious. Naturism allows the body to be seen and thus demystified. You see what the clothes are covering. The discovery is made that bodies are similar and at the same time different.

<snip>

§ Pornography Prevention. There isn’t a day that goes by that we don’t hear of the effects of porn in the lives of people. Loss of jobs, obsession with the Internet, and unrealistic sexual expectations are caused by the porn industry. No matter what you think about porn, it has harmed people and their reputations. Many men (and a growing amount of women) in our culture “salivate” at any sign of skin. Why is that? We suggest that the mind has been conditioned by our culture to equate nakedness with sex. “Madison Avenue” does this deliberately because “sex sells.” We have discovered that social nudity and other forms of Good Nudity counteract this and renew the mind to the goodness of the body. In a nude setting all is seen. People who have battled porn learn that all bodies are good. Because our society doesn’t have or appreciate simple good nudity (i.e. non-sexual nudity) the only thing it has is pornography. As soon as people step into the context of the good nudity found in naturism they discover the lie of the world regarding the body. The grip of lust is broken in the heart by the goodness of seeing the body in all ages, sizes, shapes and colors.

More:
http://www.oursunhome.com/christian_nudist.html

[maryf]

42. The sacred and the profane, meant to reply to OP

The naked one is the sacred one.

Thanks for supporting the homeless and poor!!

[saltpoint]

54. What a painting. The Sacred and the Profane indeed.

Beautiful.

and thank you, maryf.

[ismnotwasm]

43. Oh yeah?

Nice post Philistine

You know God will fuck you up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA-pWKRyyG8

[saltpoint]

46. I live for it, dontcha know.

[L0oniX]

44. Strippers for Jesus

[BlooInBloo]

47. Done and done.

:P

[saltpoint]

51. BlooInBloo, thanks for being willing to contact Obama's

transition team.

For being not only willing but able as well.

Good on ya!

[BlooInBloo]

52. Oh shit. And to think I've been sitting here nekid all these hours!

I fail.

[saltpoint]

53. LOL!

[JerseygirlCT]

49. OC, I missed church this morning, for random and not really

very good reasons.

I'll consider this my sermon. And as good a one as I've heard in quite a long while, at that.

Thanks!

[saltpoint]

50. Hey there.

Thank you. Good to see you.

Happy December, too.

[LiberalEsto]

55. Jesus could have been a Wiccan

According to Charles G. Leland's obscure 1899 book "Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches," Aradia, the goddess of an underground witch organization in Tuscany, Italy, commanded them:

"And as the sign that ye are truly free,
Ye shall be naked in your rites, both men
And women also: this shall last until
The last of your oppressors shall be dead;"

This ritual nudity may have been a way to weed out infiltrators from the covens, and to provide a sense of social equality among participants.

Leland's sources may be questionable, but ritual nudity has been around a long time, particularly in warmer climates.

You never know

[saltpoint]

56. Hi, LiberalEsto. For the record, I have no problem with his being a

Wiccan. I'm sure it would make Jim Dobson's head explode, which I'm suggesting as a good thing.

The 4 gospels and the letters of Paul are themselves of questionable integrity, IMO. I like that they generally argue on behalf of the voiceless and the poor and the exiled.

But attributing unassailable scholarship of origin to the 4 gospels is a fool's errand. I'd be very cool with Jesus of Galilee as a pagan Jew or a Jewish pagan, however the ball bounces.

A very exciting insight. Thank you.

[bobbolink]

59. "Jim Dobson's head explode, which I'm suggesting as a good thing. "

Ewwwww...... wadda mess...

Corroded gray matter.... infected with Mad Cow, hanging in strings from the chandeliers.

:puke:

[saltpoint]

66. LOL!

[bobbolink]

58. Today's email from my favorite author seems especially apt for this thread today!

At the Bottom of the Ladder

The broken and the oppressed have taught me a great deal and have changed me quite radically. They have helped me discover that healing takes place at the bottom of the ladder, not at the top.
- Jean Vanier, From Brokenness to Community, p.23

I think that about says it all.

:pals:

[Hubert Flottz]

61. I hope to Gawd Ann Coulter don't read this and strip!

I haven't had dinner yet!

[bobbolink]

63. If Ann Colter will call Obama and ask him to fund low-income housing, I don't care about her state

of dress... or undress.

Yes, it's THAT IMPORTANT!

WRITE! http://www.change.gov/page/s/contact

Thank you. :bounce:

[stuntcat]

62. it's like 30 degrees here today

wtf's wrong with that Jesus guy? :* :*

[NeedleCast]

64. Done!

[bobbolink]

65. Thanks! Every effort for low-income housing is much appreciated!

:applause:

[lonestarnot]

68. And chimpie runs off to his Dallas McMansion to fuck up apple pies.

[saltpoint]

69. lonestarnot, hello to you, a warm hello at that, and

I hope you will consider a 6 or 7 minute email to the Obama folks to ask them to feel this one deeply.

If you need or want a hook, PM me and I'll give you the link to JeffR's original research on it.

Ok. Request made, and now, to another topic: I hope you are enjoying the outcome of our recent election.

It is still swirling in me. I'm still very pleased that a majority of my countrypersons made such a sound choice.

Under Bush I felt ashamed around people from other countries. I wanted to feel much better, to convey that I have no quarrel with people in Bolivia or Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere else. It felt impossible to convey that message these last 8 years.

With Obama, the window has opened again, and pretty wide at that.

And the sunlight feels awfully damn good.

[lonestarnot]

70. Ah yes that sun is peeking through, but I can't feel it yet, not until the 20th of Jan.

I am bookmarking this thread and of course I will write to those folks! Bushitler is still up to his fucking things up in the meantime. Trying to bust the union with the car czar bullshit. What an idiot! I'd still like to send all of the recycle in the country to one nice neighborhood in Dallas, the stuff we supposedly can no longer afford to recycle!

[saltpoint]

71. You always play fair. But I like partisan fire and

you can bring it with the best of 'em.

And you're right about Jan. 20th. We'll feel the light a lot stronger then.

Some of the little ones will be waiting for Santa later this month. We'll be waiting for Barack Obama to begin governing in January.

Thank you for the support you've given to this thread and to these boards on DU time and again.

[lonestarnot]

77. No need for thanks Old Crusoe.

This place has become a part of me. Sad but true! :P :hug: :loveya:

[saltpoint]

78. We others are the better for it, and nationally, it looks like

one of the good guys is going to be in the Oval Office.

Things are lookin' up.

[saltpoint]

72. Let's hear it for noble dogs on the highway

and let's hear it for the wild-eyed poets of the ancient deserts.

I hope folks will take a couple minutes and jot down a note to the next president, asking that poverty and its attendant issues be kept on the front-most burner.

Contact Obama's transition team here:

http://www.change.gov/page/s/contact

Thanks.

[JDwho]

73. Thomas was dead when the gospel of Thomas was written. Weird, huh?

I understand everyone's desire to be nude, but I'm not buying the G.O.T.

[saltpoint]

75. Ok. I'm just taking tht particular ancient thing off the dusty

shelf to toss around a bit in the service of urging others to contact Barac Obama.

I hope Thomas' ghost will understand.

[olegramps]

74. I don't look good naked anymore

[saltpoint]

76. We ALL look good naked. No apologies needed.

And Denver rocks.


:thumbsup:

[saltpoint]

79. First, notice the dog. Play that link. Watch the first dog get near-killed.

Watch the second dog mount a rescue.

A rescue that occurs as the mad world's cars rush by.

Consider the impulse the second dog has to save the life of the first.

Then, please write to the Obama team to ask them for just such a rescue for those in need of one.