JEB Bush urges GOP to create a “shadow government” during the Obama admin

[sabra]

:crazy:

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/jeb_bush_interview/2008/11/30/156557.html

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush tells Newsmax that the GOP must broaden its appeal to avoid becoming “the old white-guy party,” and recommends that Republicans create a “shadow government” to engage Democrats on important issues as the incoming Obama administration seeks to enact its agenda.

...

Bush’s other advice on where the GOP should go from here:

# The party should establish a loyal opposition and “organize ourselves in the form of a shadow government” that would address key issues, providing the public with “a loftier debate about policy” rather than mere partisanship.

...

On a personal note, Bush told Newsmax that he wouldn’t be surprised if his father, former President H.W. Bush, jumps out of a plane when he turns 85 in June.

“He likes going fast in boats and he likes jumping out of planes,” he said of his father. “I can’t explain it, but there’s nothing I can do about it!”

Bush added, “Whenever I get a chance, I always ask him about his life, because it’s just been a spectacular life. If I could be half the man my dad has been, I would consider myself having a really privileged life.”

[Alter Ego]

1. Yeah cause Republicans have always shown that they're able

to discuss policy and not get embroiled in petty political dustups! Amirite guys?

Fucking idiots, the whole lot of them.

[rcsl1998]

73. Jeb Musta Forgot The Shadow Government His Bro' Created Shortly After 9/11

It was actually in the news - Have all of you forgotten, too?!? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/01/attack/main502530.shtml

[SpiralHawk]

80. Occultism is sooooo republicon...

Ptooooey on the anti-American republicon occultists.

[polichick]

2. Oh goodie, a new Bush on the horizon.

[JDPriestly]

50. Yes. I suppose that Jeb wants to be "elected" president of this

"shadow cabinet." This is such an obvious ploy. It is mostly likely to set off infighting in the Republican Party. This should be amusing.

[polichick]

53. Yep...

:popcorn:

[pipi_k]

88. Yeah, like the name "Bush" is a wonderful thing these days

If my last name were "Bush" I would be looking to change it. Seriously.

Dubya has made a laughingstock of himself and turned his family name into something people say with a look on their faces that suggests they've just swallowed a live cockroach.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. So He's Proposing Treason and Sedition?

Aren't there laws about that?
The Professor

[Sal Minella]

13. Laws? For anybody named "Bush?" Silly you.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. Hey, I Was Just Askin'

I don't remember the part in the Constitution where it says the laws don't apply to some people. Now i have to go read it again and look for the part i missed. LOL!

You know, maybe i'll ask Fat Tony Scalia. He's an originalist. He should know what the framers were THINKING 190+ years before he was born. Maybe he could explain the "special rich people" exemption that i just don't understand!
GAC

[Sal Minella]

28. Fat Tony would be my choice for Go-To Guy on the Unwritten Privileges of the Overprivileged.

If he didn't know the answer, I'm sure he could make something up on the spot.

[Jello Biafra]

86. They stopped using the Constitution...

They were using the Bible instead the last time I looked....

[alfredo]

14. We need to frame it something like that and link it to Cheney's

shadow government.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Yep

These idiots can't govern. They can't govern at all with no real power. And now they're presuming to "attain" that power through subsersive means.

That's illegal and it's unamerican.
GAC

[Raster]

44. So how is this so different from what they've done the last eight years?

[alfredo]

62. Of course this "shadow government" could become a circle jerk and they

become even more out of touch and more delusional.

[HillWilliam]

87. It's always been a circle jerk

but, being repugs, as long as they don't touch each other's d*cks, it's "okay" :sarcasm:

[alfredo]

89. Except Larry Craig

[anigbrowl]

26. Not at all. It's very common in parliamentary democracies

The opposition party has spokespersons (in the legislature) equivalent to the various cabinet posts, so if you don't like a new regulation on, say, agriculture, the shadow agriculture secretary is is in charge of formulating a rebuttal and getting the message out. There's nothing treasonable about it, it's just a way for a party to present itself as a coherent political opposition when out of office as opposed to a disorganized crowd of grumblers.

[Raine1967]

31. Are we a Parliamentary Democracy?

Sounds like Jeb IS trying to change an awful lot if things with this proposal... no?

Doesn't sound legal at all.

[anigbrowl]

38. Doesn't matter. It's an informal arrangement, nothing illegal about it.

Members of a shadow cabinet etc. don't have any legal powers, it's just a way of presenting one's political case to the public and keeping your party organized while in opposition. For that matter, anyone could go out and recruit a bunch of like-minded people and call it a 'citizen's cabinet' if one wanted to present alternative political views. It's like when the President gives the State of the Union speech and the opposition party issues a response right afterwards, they're not laying claim to executive power by doing so.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Sorry But I Don't Agree

The analogy doesn't even make sense, since in a parliamentary system there is seldom a separate executive branch with equal power.

So, the comparison is inappropriate.
GAC

[rhett o rick]

90. I agree with you. How is it treason to present an opposing view point? nm

[Octafish]

29. They're above the law.

Google "Safari Club" and Prince Bandar for details.

[Freddie Stubbs]

61. Addressing issues and providing debate is treason?

:shrug:

[ProfessorGAC]

76. Did You Read The Article?

That's rhetorical since you obviously didn't.

The Professor

[Freddie Stubbs]

82. Yes, I did. Can you point out any treason or sedition mentioned in it?

:shrug:

[rhett o rick]

91. I read the article and I didn't see anything treasonous. Maybe you can help us out. nm

[tritsofme]

72. European countries commonly have "shadow governments"

made up of the opposition.

I don't know how you get the treason and sedition from members of the opposition calling themselves a "shadow government".

[ProfessorGAC]

78. You Apparently Didn't Read Jeb's Quotes

If you did read them, you would know the rhetoric is far from innoccuous.

And, you're the second person to make a less than apt comparison to parliamentary systems in which there is a far less clear and separate executive branch. The executive branch sets policy and doesn't need a "shadow gov't" structured to oppose.

They have elected officials in Congress. Let them run their opposition in daylight.
GAC

[tritsofme]

85. Its an informal way for the opposition to respond quickly to government

proposals and show the country how they would handle the situation.

I have often thought that the Democrats could have greatly benefited from setting up a shadow government during the Bush years.

I really don't think a "pretend shadow government" would step on anyone's toes.

[rhett o rick]

92. Instead of continuing to tell us to read the article, please give us a quote that shows he is being

treasonous (the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign). I do not like Jeb and think he needs to be watched very closely. But I don't agree that he is advocating treason here, AND I READ THE ARTICLE.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. I think Cheney has one ready to go. Jeb, go help the old goat move it out of the VP's residence.

[shadowknows69]

5. Can we arrest Jeb for incitement to treason now?

Oh yeah, he's a Bush, sorry. They're rewarded for treasonous behavior since Grandaddy on down.

[onenote]

65. tell me what he's done to incite treason and I'll tell you if we can.

But advocating debate and the expression of dissenting views isn't treason. If it was, Obama would be in jail not waiting to be sworn in as President.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. Directions to the Vomitorium are straight ahead then bear a hard right

it is a passage situated below or behind a tier of seats in an amphitheatre, through which crowds can "spew out" at the end of a performance.

[crimsonblue]

34. DUzy. N/t

[FrenchieCat]

7. Yes, let them fuck up in their imagination

instead of for real. We've been there and done that.

[driver8]

8. Just when I think I cannot hate the Bush family any more...

another one pops up and gives me a reason.

I fucking despise these people.

[mediaman007]

9. Jeb Bush: in danger of becoming an old-white guy.

Sorry, but I'm ROF,LMAO.

[Joe Chi Minh]

10. I reckon their shadow President, whoever he might be, if it's not McCain,

would be about 490th in the line of succession to the throne.

[alfredo]

17. It would be Jeb. He wouldn't suggest it if he didn't want to be the

supreme leader. Remember, he was a PNAC member.

[Joe Chi Minh]

46. I wasn't talking about what Jeb or any Republican might have wanted...!

I was indicating their prospects! "Mine and Buckleys", as the Kiwis say.

In the UK, there is a list of people next in line of succession to the throne and, to put it mildly, it's mostly kind of meaningless.

[alfredo]

63. From what I read it seemed that it is an alternate to the elected government

[malaise]

60. I'm sure Jeb knows that his brother ran a shadow government

while he was supposed to be running the government. Guess Tony Blair never explained that hhe Shadow government is a Parliamentary thingy for the opposition party. :D

[alfredo]

64. bush didn't want to live under our laws, he wanted to be the law.

[Donnachaidh]

11. Calling for outright TREASON Jebbie?

I certainly hope someone on Obama's team gets this today and starts going into Jeb's background with a fine toothed comb.

[treestar]

54. That's exactly what Jebbie would have called it had the Democrats

mentioned such a thing during the past 8 years.

[Posteritatis]

12. Is he suggesting something similar to shadow cabinets?

Parliamentary countries do those a lot, where the main opposition party sets aside a few of its members to be the House critic for insert-spot-here. So if the government has a minister of defense, the opposition appoints one of its members as defense critic, and his/her job is pretty much to focus on whatever the MoD is doing.

In theory it's a good idea that I tend to like, but in practice (at least in Canada the last several eons), it's more or less amounted to starting with the assumption that The Other Guy Can Never Ever Ever Ever Do Anything Right and going from there. It's far less constructive than it really could be, and that depresses me a bit.

[anigbrowl]

27. So it seems, but but apparently it's more fun to accuse him of treason

Since I also come from a country with a parliamentary democracy, this just seems normal to me but apparently it's a new concept for many here. Perhaps the OP should have been titled 'Jeb Bush suggests becoming more like Canada'.

[Me.]

41. The Obvious Difference Being That We Are Not A Parliamentary Democracy

Then there is the matter of the shadow government Cheney set up and has had running since they came into office without informing or including either of the other branches of government. Further, as has been the case over the last 8 years, Jeb (signer of PNAC) and the other neocons' purpose has been to undermine our democracy. There are many who, with good reason, believe his brother in the WH is guilty of treason. Working against the government to further your ideology seems to be a family trait.

[Posteritatis]

52. I think we're using different definitions of "shadow government" here

The one you use (correctly!) to describe Cheney's setup, and the one that I'm referring to, are pretty different things.

The one in Cheney's sense is actually governing behind the scenes; that's criminal at the very best and is not a trait of parliamentary democracy at all. That's full of badfulness right there, and I won't even think of arguing with anyone who says as much because they're right!

I'm referring to a system of opposition where the opposition tasks several people in their party with the purpose of studying and criticising (when necessary) the actions of their opposing member in the federal cabinet. There's no governing there, unless the critic changes the mind of someone who actually affects policy (or, in the parliamentary case, gets a private member's bill passed). It's not a constitutional setup to my knowledge as much as an informal thing that's become tradition.

I like the latter system; there's nothing legally or ethically wrong with it on the surface, and if one of my guys is the critic then their day job basically involves studying one of the ministries or departments in detail and actually potentially having more than a purely rhetorical grasp on what's going on in it. As well, I like the idea of folks in power being held under a microscope no matter who they are. I consider it to strengthen, not undermine, democracies, as opposed to the sort of situation we can get when a government's criticism actually is weak and disorganized.

Of course, on the other hand there aren't nearly enough drugs in my drinking water to make me trust any of the Bushes currently walking with something like this. I like the idea - though I'd like it more if the Democrats had something similar in place eight years ago - but American politics are also far, far too polarized for it to be workable down there for awhile.

[Me.]

68. Ironic Isn't It

They broke it, now they think their best role, option, is to criticize the person who is going to fix it. An opposition party can in fact serve a constructive role but what I would intuit here, given history and the people involved, is that obstruction is more of what they're going for. This sad, sorry sack of a party doesn't understand what, or why, they have been dismissed from class by the American people and they will obstruct themselves into obscurity.

[Posteritatis]

71. Oh, I agree completely on this particular crop

I'm saying I love the idea in principle, but in practice I really don't think this current crop of hyper-polarized sour-grapers can pull it off. If we can get the US a Republican Party that's mature enough to, oh, I don't know, stop claiming the president-elect is simultaneously a Muslim, a communist and the next Adolf Fucking Hitler, then it'll be something that benefits the country (even if they were in office in the future, provided the Democrats used it).

That's a big damn if, though, which makes me sad.

[onehandle]

15. Deport his ass. nt

[Ilsa]

16. I wish all of the Bushes would do us a favor and

jump out of a mile-high airplane, sans parachutes.

[Ikonoklast]

19. They already have it

All the so-called right-wing 'institutes' that the Pukes retreat to and sally forth to spew on C-Span and Fox at a moments notice are a shadow government, with a ready agenda they put n place the moment they can seize power. They are populated by the Boltons and Kristols of this country.

But, it's too late for the 'old white guy party'. Demographics are against the Pukes staying as a national party without a major restructuring away from the racist, dog-whistle rhetoric that they have used to stay in power.

But they just won't do it.

[bushmeister0]

37. "Demographics are against the Pukes." That's why he's got the "little browns ones"

on the assembly line.

[SoCalDem]

21. Jebbie needs to shut his big fat pie-hole

[Orsino]

22. To "avoid becoming the Old White Guy Party"?

Too late.

Jeb's fantasizing, dreaming of some new PR offensive that will sell their pile of Fail to an increasingly skeptical public. If he wants change, his beloved party will have to become something other than the Old White Guy Party that it has been for decades.

Note that Jeb doesn't have any answers, either. He's tied to ideology, as are all the rest. They're not going to change until whoring for money stops working altogether.

[NOW tense]

23. Yes Shadow Govt.

Those are well chosen words by the brother of the most secretive President ever.

[GoesTo11]

24. They don't get it

Even if they have a shadow government to oppose abortion rights, and get worked up over the next Terry Shiavo and Elian Gonzales, they can't just decide to provide the public with a loftier debate about policy because they don't have any policy ideas that work.

[tanyev]

25. You go talk to Sarah about it, Jebbie.

She is the new leadership of the GOP, no?

[rhett o rick]

33. She is their distraction. While everyone is watching the Palin circus, Jeb will be stealing your wa

llet.

[rhett o rick]

30. When he jumps out of the plane I hope there is a hippie w a backpack on the plane.

Let me know if you are not familiar with the old joke.

[Overseas]

32. Form a shadow government to continue recommending the fabulous policies

that have brought our whole country (and the world) to disaster?

Stuff it.

[smoogatz]

35. What an insufferable douchebag. Like he hasn't had "a really privileged life."

He pretty much announced his intention to run in 2012. Good luck with that, asshole.

On edit: as far as the "shadow government" remark is concerned, it's nothing new. There's been the fundamental threat--and at times the reality--of a rightwing coup in place in every Democratic administration since 1932.

[Terran]

36. "...avoid becoming the 'old white guy party'..."

:rofl: Bit late, isn't it?

[bdamomma]

39. what snakes they all are.

:mad:

[HowHasItComeToThis]

40. THIS IS ALWAYS THE REPUBLISCUMS ATTITUDE

[Joanne98]

42. Jeb Bush die and go to Hell!

[earth mom]

43. What a brazen bastard! They sure aren't hiding their criminal behavior anymore are they?

Guess the 700 Billion bailout showed the BFEE that they can get away with anything and no one will do a damn thing. :argh: :grr:

[defendandprotect]

45. GOP=Grand Old Patriarchy ...corporate, sexist, racist, homophobic ---

[SalmonChantedEvening]

47. Cmon Jebbie!

The GOP always works well in the shadows. Make that ONLY.

[JDPriestly]

48. The Republican Party could not engage discussion on the issues

when they were in the White House. Do they think they can learn to do that now?

Republicans won their elections not on real issues but on phantom issues like abortion, gay marriage and scaring people by exaggerating the terrorism threat. Those issues have been eclipsed by economic issues and, let's face it, if the Republicans had an answer to the economic problems of our country, they problems would not exist. The Republicans caused our economic problems. Their opinions about how to solve them are irrelevant at this point. Republicans have nothing to contribute right now. They need to shut up and watch and learn before they start talking about issues.

[Dinger]

49. It'll Be jeb in 2012

Mark it down.

[RedCappedBandit]

51. avoid becoming “the old white-guy party,”

Yep. Too late. Definitely.

[samsingh]

55. maybe he should work on questioning his criminal sibling first

[KG]

56. what? isn't one 'shadow govt' enuff?

[mitchum]

57. I thought that they already had one called the CIA?

[graywarrior]

58. I sincerely hope Poppy does jump out of a plane

un-parashooted

[Cleita]

59. How very American and patriotic of him.

:sarcasm:

I thought there already was a neo-con shadow government in place, "The Project For A New American Century" of which Jeb is a charter member.

[Swamp Rat]

66. Treason....... we must take down the cabal on January 21st.

[MagickMuffin]

67. Well Well WELL, the Bushies have been known for a Shadow Government for Generations

Starting with Great Grandpa Walker, Grandpa Prescott, Poppy and now the Boys GW and Jebbie.

It seems as though they can now just come right out and make that statement public.

[Generic Other]

69. Is this a damn confession?

That man is a menace--to Sarah Palin's ambitions particularly. WOW. Positioning himself for his own presiduncy?

[robertpaulsen]

70. My, how clever you are, Jeb. Pretending we don't have a military-industrial complex already.

I almost fell for it, really.

:eyes:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

74. Convenient! They already have one in place

with the 'undisclosed location' as the current headquarters. the bu$h bros both are shit personified.

[ThoughtCriminal]

75. Out of the sunlight

should be popular with cockroaches and some types of mold.

[judasdisney]

79. Jeb's Keyword Hijacking

Jeb is taking the phrase "Shadow Government" and obfuscating its CIA/NSA meaning.

In a wilderness of mirrors, to me, that's indirect evidence that the real Shadow Government is on the defensive.

[quaker bill]

81. Joe the Plumber

and Sara P fans don't do "loftier debates". The notion might amuse a few neo-con authors, but it will not take the Limbaugh fans anywhere.

[marmar]

83. Fuck that pig-faced bastard......

:argh:

[lib2DaBone]

84. I'd like to know what JEB and his Real Estate Buddies made on the Offshore Oil Swaps in Fla?