I'll say it plain: If you're against the bailout of the auto industry, you're un-American!

[Joe Fields]

Some people can sit around and point fingers, (and there are plenty of culprits to point at) but it is unconscionable for me to think that anyone could stand by and watch millions of jobs disappear, if we DON'T bail out the big three, and think that it serves the greedy corporations right.

We all know that the auto industry has been grossly mismanaged. But we also know that economic forces have crippled sales of automobiles. This is a "damned if we do, and worse, if we don't" situation with no guarantees, if we do bail the industry out. But a guarantee of sure economic collapse will come to pass, if we do nothing.

I've seen more than a few people here express a desire to not bailout the auto industry. Not only is it short-sighted thinking, but it is selfish, cruel and downright un-American to feel so righteously cavalier about the potential loss of one out of every ten jobs here in our country.

If you care about America, you care about jobs, and not just Wall Street jobs.

[Donnachaidh]

1. How very republican of you. n/t

[DJ13]

9. A Republican wouldnt want to save the automakers

[earth mom]

16. No, republicans don't want to save the Union Workers. That's what this is ALL about.

:puke:

[ipfilter]

30. Hammer meet Nail.

This is all about union busting.

[madokie]

70. And that can be taken to the bank

[roguevalley]

29. given the destruction possible down the chain from them, I think it

would be self-preservation to take care of this with lots of requirements for change. Fire the ceo's and boards for start.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I opposed the 'bailout' to financial institutions that bought & sold 'air' ... CDS! I'm all for

helping to keep the auto manufacturers, even Ford, from going bust.

[Joe Fields]

11. I was against the Wall Street bailout(in its form), but as long as the govt.

was going to hand out 700 billion dollars, all of that money should have gone toward keeping homeowners in their homes.

[Kalyke]

42. Even Ford?

Ford's less distressed than the other two.

:shrug:

[sinkingfeeling]

76. Father worked for Chevy. 'Ford' was a bad word in our household.

[Romulox]

3. So called "progressives" hate American labor. It's as plain as that. nt

[earth mom]

17. Yep-some have a holier than thou attitude toward the working class.

I've seen a ton of that bullshit attitude here on DU over the years. :puke:

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Pretty Discouraging, Isn't It?

The Professor

[yodoobo]

4. I see. "you are either with us, or against us"

I'm reluctantly for the automaker bailout.

But damn, some of its supporters sure do work hard to change my mind.

[Pathwalker]

5. It's a LOAN. NOT a bail-out. They have to pay it back!

How HARD is this to understand?

[walldude]

12. LMAO.. yeah right, and what if they don't?

[Pathwalker]

15. Then we can re-possess their many square miles of property.

All of which they now own.

[JuniperLea]

31. I think you need to take another look at that alleged property

Do we know if they still own it? Do we know if they have mortgaged the hell out of it like the rest of America has? If they do default, and we do take the land, will it be worth anything.

[Pathwalker]

39. Hell, the states of Michigan, Indiana and Ohio won't be worth a dime.

Michigan's unemployment rate just went to 9.3% - take out the auto industry and the rest of the nation will see millions of refugees from here. Maybe you could sell us to Canada, eh?

[knitter4democracy]

43. Hell, I'd vote for that.

We're surrounded by Canada on two sides, and they have national health care. Please sell us to Canada!

[Fire1]

100. They did it once before by paying a loan off SEVEN YEARS

Ahead of time. They can do it again. But CEO concessions will have to be made.

[sarcasmo]

6. Please change your header to call it what it is, a Bridge Loan they don't want free money

They want to pay it back plus 5%.

[Greyhound]

52. LOL!

:rofl:

Want to buy a bridge?

[JDPriestly]

7. I hope you were screaming that when other people's jobs were being

outsourced and when other people's unions were being busted.

I have no problem with the bail-out of the auto industry as long as the CEOs and their huge salaries are bailed out first, but I want to hear several million mea culpa's and profuse apologies from those auto industry workers who shopped Wal-Mart while local factories were shut down and who did not strike when the air controller's union was crushed way back under Reagan.

Shame on you, and now that the rest of us are impoverished, you come with your hands out. It's in the best interest of all of us that you get your 30 pieces of silver, but then it was in the interest of that guy out in Missouri who lost his job when service representative positions were outsourced to India. And by the way, that guy is either homeless or, if he is lucky, has been working at McDonald's for the past few years. You had better get on the stick over there in the auto industry, because you are virtually all the industry that is left in the U.S.

You had better start working very hard to end these unfair trade agreements. Let the Indians and the people in the Philippines help themselves over the phone. That is what is it is going to take to bring America back.

[Edweird]

46. I have. Outsourcing, H1B, illegal immigrants all have driven wages down and taken jobs.

Americans need jobs that pay a living wage.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. rec this post !!!

oh I wish I could.

[Joe Fields]

72. What's your trip? You act like I just woke up to the fact that we're

hemorrhaging jobs.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

82. Won't they include the price of this bail-out in the cost of the cars

they will be building? How can we afford to buy the cars when we will be busy paying back the money we lent to bail out Wall Street? :crazy:

Evidently money DOES grow on Trees and we all appear to have one growing in our backyard :bounce:

[Joe Fields]

71. I have been.

[Vinca]

8. How can you be so sure this will save jobs?

Why are you so sure reorganization under Chapter 11 will lose jobs? When they were beating the drum for the Wall Street bailout, we were told it was life or death and must be passed immediately to loosen the credit markets. The credit markets are unchanged. If they had "loosened up," maybe they could lend money to the auto makers. I don't believe anything any of these people are telling us. For all we know, the fat cat CEOs are looking for year end bonuses. It's bull. These are the same people who can't outsource jobs to Mexico fast enough. If we end up giving them a bailout, there should be long strings attached, including returning jobs to this country.

[Joe Fields]

47. I said it is a "damned if you do, worse if you don't" type of a deal.

We can't be sure, but you know exactly what will happen if we don't help.

[defendandprotect]

95. We need the government to buy the businesses at distress prices .....

Administrate and dictate it's running under workers to build

electric cars --

CEO's and all management O U T --

[Occam Bandage]

10. I'll say it plain: if you're in favor of throwing tens of billions of dollars

down a sinkhole that has absolutely no guarantee of saving a single American job in the long run, you're un-American.

[pampango]

22. In the 1970's the British government kept bailing out their automobile industry.

It cost them lots of money and the industry eventually disappeared anyway.

[OregonBlue]

35. That may be true and they may eventually fail but right now, with all the other calamity coming

our way, is not the time to throw all these people in the mid-west out of work. If they eventually fail they fail but we do not want them to fail now.

I think Pelosi got it right. Make them come up with a plan and if they do, they will get the money. They should be able to hold on until December 8. From what I'm hearing Bush could have vetoed the compromise that was reached today. If they can round up enough support in the next couple of weeks maybe they will have enough votes to get it through.

In the meantime, the auto companies are being asked to come up with a plan that will fit with the new energy policy priorities.

Nothing wrong with this that I can see.

[pampango]

37. I agree with you. If they need the money, they should have a plan. n/t

[Joe Fields]

48. You would rather watch millions of jobs go poof?

I have little time, and even fewer words for assholes who entertain such thoughts.

[Mike 03]

13. Big surprise. Well, this isn't the first time over the past eight years I've been

called unpatriotic.

[Joe Fields]

49. Why so sensitive? Why do you even feel I'm talking to you?

I have read what you have to say on the subject. But it never fails. No matter how plain I try to make something, someone always finds a way to misunderstand.

[Lance_Boyle]

14. How very Sarah Palin of you,

Jackass.

I suppose everyone who used to be employed in the tobacco industry was just not as important as the almighty "auto worker?" Well, they all got fucked. Guess they chose the wrong line of work. But it sure looks to me like those UAW guys did, too. Their downfall was just longer in coming.

[earth mom]

18. You're the Jackass here. Those jobs are what have kept this country afloat over the years.

Cut your nose to spite your face-is what all of you anti unionists are doing. :puke:

[Lance_Boyle]

23. Proud *rational* jackass, sure. I'll own that.

Those jobs have produced SHIT for a decade or better. At the direction of their SHIT management. Drawing paychecks like undeserving legacies draw admittance to Yale.

I am not anti-union. I am anti *irresponsible* union, which is what the UAW has been for some time, corresponding perfectly with the *irresponsible* management of the Big Three. When you have an adversarial system pitting management against the union, you get polar opposite camps that become entirely self-serving. Tell me, if management is only looking out for their own greedy asses, and the Union is only looking out for its own members, who is looking out for the buying public that BOTH count on for their existence? Nobody. So now the buying public has spoken, by not buying. And the management will suffer, and the union will suffer. And if the Big Three come out of Chapter 11, they'd better take a look at serving those of us they count on for their very existence, and not management's golden parachutes or the UAW's full-pay-for-no-work benefit scheme.

[earth mom]

26. People can't afford to buy cars right now-any cars. It's not about the buying public

sending a message to Detroit. :eyes:

FYI-Millions of people are happy with their American made cars. I'm one of them.

Your reasoning is nothing more than trying to find a way to justify destroying one of the largest unions in this country. Nothing more. :puke:

[reflection]

19. What a load of garbage.

"Un-American". This type of thinking has served the Idiot-in-Chief(TM) well. Good job.
:eyes:

[robertpaulsen]

20. Joe McCarthy calling collect from hell. I want my schtick back.

:patriot:

:sarcasm:

[Joe Fields]

50. You know where you can shove your schtick.....

:sarcasm:

[robertpaulsen]

85. The Soviet Union?

:shrug:

[glowing]

21. I'm not against the bailout. I'm not against anyone wanting to provide for their families.

I'm against Capitalism. Capitalism breeds greed and corruption. It creates a slave system where the only value lies in money and objects. It goes against human nature... and really any nature.

Most people would happily get up everyday and do something they enjoyed doing. Most people would contribute naturally to the betterment of society as a whole. People who like to work outdoors, growing the goodness of fruits and veggies, should just naturally be able to do that, without worrying about taking out a loan against their homes and land for seed and perfect yield crops. Actually, the farmers should be the entities living tax-free, rather than oil companies who make billions in profits.

People who like to create art, should be able to produce the awe inspiring works, without fear of NOT eating.

Seriously, people, in general, enjoy working and being productive. Its the parasites that are within our society that want more and want to keep others down that create systems of slavery and have a crazy need for power.

This is a defining time period in our world. We are at a point in our world where we are connected around the world. Its much harder for them to lie. (think about that Bachman woman who seems to think that the recording of her exact words have disappeared). Think of the McCain/ Palin campaign.. the lies were the same, but people are more awake. More rely on the internet for news snippets or information than they rely on the older mediums.. like t.v. and newspapers. In fact, it is us who catch them in their lies and mis-statements (oops) and call, e-mail, blog, and nail them to the wall. Its much harder for any of the world's leaders to try and snowball anyone.. except for thosae like in China who limit access to any information.

Here it is, how will we decide to live? What kind of world do we want to see? What kind of world do we want to leave behind? In this country, we want to have a democracy that works. We want our leaders to listen to us and abide by the laws. We want more socialism.. and network that takes care of one another. We don't want to continue reading or hearing about the stories of the mother with cancer who's 10yr old boy is helping to take care of her and his 3 siblings. We don't want to continue hearing about the family that has lost everything and is now living out of their car. We don't want to hear about the Iraq Vet who cannot find work, and now she's living on the street. We don't want to hear about the elderly taking half the medicine they ought to be taking, only to freeze to death in their home.. because they couldn't afford to turn on the heat.

This and the many stories throughout the world of so many people suffering.. is something we don't want to continue to hear. Capitalism doesn't work. Communism doesn't work. Somehow a nice medium needs to be achieved. We need to share, have compassion, and remember.. we are born naked and have to be taught everything we learn... how should our lives on this worl pass.. in misery, deadlines, suffering, regrets.. or with love, hope, and happiness?

[KurtNYC]

24. Name-calling is over-rated; research is under-rated

"one out of every ten jobs" ?!

a contraction of the Detroit Three would result in direct and indirect job losses of 2.5 million to 3 million in 2009

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/how-many-jobs-depend-on-the-big-three/

Plenty of other companies make cars in the USA and employ Americans. Bailout money should go toward creting new jobs; NOT toward saving businesses with flawed business models that only want to buy time to move the rest of their operations out of the country.

[nichomachus]

25. Bail them out -- but

require that 65 percent of the board of directors be from the unions. If this is about "saving jobs," that's the best way to make sure the jobs are really saved and that the money isn't spent on executive bonuses and lavish junkets.

Works for me.

[pampango]

27. If you said: Anyone against a VIABLE bailout of the auto industry...

you would have me on board. If they need the money that badly, management must be willing to engage in some very hard negotiations and restrictions on how that money will be used both the make the industry viable and to get the loan paid back. If, on the other hand, they just want $25 billion in free loans that may be paid back if things go well or may not if things go badly, then I'll take a pass (even if it may be perceived as unpatriotic) on pouring more money down the drain of current auto management.

My guess is that the constant refrain of "We have to bail them out. We have to loan them the $25 billion or the sky will fall" is music to the ears of auto executives. If I were one of them, I would love for the pressure to be on congress to loan the money in a hurry with few or no restrictions rather than have to come up with concrete commitments on changes in many aspects of the way the industry does business.

[LibraLiz1973]

28. As a HUMAN BEING, I am loathe to have millions lose their jobs. BUT

I think a bail out is bullshit.

[JuniperLea]

32. Anyone who can watch those assholes show up to their beggar's banquet in private jets...

And think they are capable of putting this business back on track is just nuts. Purely and simply nuts. It's not going to save jobs or unions if we just hand them the money. I can't believe there are so many naive people here!

[Joe Fields]

53. You don't get it. There are only two options here.

What you and I want doesn't enter into the equation. Naive? No. But when the options are what we have, then if you don't give these assholes the money, what happens?

I stand by what I said in the original message.

[pampango]

74. There are three options here: 1) Don't loan the money and the companies go bankrupt, and

2) Loan the money right now with no strings attached and watch incompetent management continue to run the industry into the ground with the resulting loss of union jobs eventually, or 3) Loan the money only as a part of a concrete plan to reform the companies, so that they are viable in the long run as a source of union jobs.

[aldo]

33. Amen, globalists are the screw America crowd

And the Ratfucklicans are the screw everybody but me crowd. The Democrats need to stand for the middle class, NOW!

[frustrated_lefty]

34. Use your own checkbook, k?

Moran.

[Joe Fields]

54. a lot of very selfish, blind people here these days.

[taterguy]

36. If you're so Pro-America, why is your favorite band from England?

[Joe Fields]

55. Damn, you got me there...

[taterguy]

78. What's wrong with Chuck Berry?

A great American musician that wrong songs about great American cars.

Meanwhile the Beatles were encouraging folks to get around in some stupid Yellow Submarine.

[soothsayer]

38. They can reorganize themselves via bankruptcy rules, and get their acts together

Why give them or loan them money until they start to make changes?

[GOTV]

68. Won't a bancruptcy re-org leave tens of thousands of pensioners pennyless?

[screembloodymurder]

40. I agree.

Bush is a traitor. We need to march on DC this weekend and demand the arrest of the dirty little bastard and his entire fucking cabinet.

[glitch]

41. Forget the bailout - try a buyout. $4 billion in stock, gov purchases it and gives to the employees

Now it's an employee owned company, they fire the current board and top management, hire from within their own, workers keeps their jobs, problem mitigated very cheaply.

Added plus: puke heads exploding all over the country.

Disclaimer: not my idea, heard it on Thom Hartmann, from Ravi Batra(?) economist.

PS, do the same for any ohter company screaming bail me out.

[Orsino]

44. "Some people can sit around and point fingers..."

:rofl:

Yes, apparently some can. :hi:

[MadHound]

45. Why should we bailout the auto industry when they're going to turn that money around

And use it to drain jobs out of America?
<http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=320909&CategoryId=12396>
Why should we bailout GM when it's turning it's fucked up finance arm into a bank to go slop at the bailout trough with all the other financial fatcats?
<http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE49U0F620081031>
Why should we, after the debacle of the Wall St. bailout, trust either the Bush administration or this Congress, or the Big 3 to do the right and honest thing vis-a-vis this bailout.
Why should we continue to throw good money after bad, propping up an industry that can't stand on it's own. In the long term, it would be better for all concerned if the Big 3 stood or fell on their own, and if the fall, they will be replaced by a leaner, meaner auto industry that is more responsive to the markets. If they stand, then they will have successfully transformed themselves. Either way, it will be better for the country in the long term.

You ask people to think of the workers, well, quite frankly we can't save all the jobs in this country. Is there going to be a bailout for the retail sector, think of all those jobs. What about the tourism sector, will there be a bailout to save those jobs? On and on this could go, but the point is since we can't save every single job in this country, so what makes auto industry jobs so special?

Sorry, you can hurl all the childish, asshole comments at me that you want, but we shouldn't be bailing out the Big 3. Let them stand or fall on their own.

[Greyhound]

51. "but it is unconscionable for me to think that anyone could stand by and watch

millions of jobs disappear"

Were you born last night?
:rofl:

[Joe Fields]

57. do you make a habit of quoting out of context?

I wrote the sentence as a whole sentence, because that's how I meant it to be understood. I suggest you quit using parts of sentences to make whatever obscure point you were trying to make.

[Greyhound]

60. OK, if it makes you happy;

"Some people can sit around and point fingers, (and there are plenty of culprits to point at) but it is unconscionable for me to think that anyone could stand by and watch millions of jobs disappear, if we DON'T bail out the big three, and think that it serves the greedy corporations right."

I ask again, were you born last night? Perhaps it was last year?

Just to satisfy, let me fill in the blanks since you seen to have a disconnect between the last few years and our history. (let me guess, the Clinton years were paradise and all was perfect)

We have stood by, no let me correct that, we have cheered on the demolition of tens of millions of lives and the destruction of millions of families and futures and a whole way of life in order to create the illusion of prosperity for at least the last 30 years, and most importantly, to create more billionaires than any other country on earth.

Steelworkers, farmers, air traffic controllers, industrial factory workers from textiles to paper to shoes, information technology, construction, electronics... (how long a list would you like? It can be quite lengthy)

How many homeless people do you ignore every day? It has been the Amerikan way for well over a quarter century to turn a blind eye to the suffering of others. Why should that change now?

Feel better now?

[Greyhound]

87. What? No reply?

[Two Americas]

94. well said

One would think that with the collapse of the economy, the death of my hometown, the late great Detroit, and the utter rejection of Reaganomics by the general public in the recent elections - "we need another New Deal" is what I heard again and again in the neighborhoods that the gentrified liberal activists so scrupulously avoid - that the confusion and denial - among people in the very segment of the population who have the least excuse for keeping their hands in the sand - would be far behind us by now.

How many times do we need to see the same exact scenario played out before we are willing to face the plain truth about it?

Are we Democrats? Are we going to keep up any pretense whatsoever that we are a millimeter to the left from what was once called "moderate Republicanism?"

The crisis in Detroit is nothing new, and it represents the latest chapter in the ongoing all out war by the wealthy and powerful few against the working people. That is the direct consequence of the quislings and turncoats and scabs among us, who have created a modern liberalism and a Democratic party that are toothless, hypocritical and gentrified charades for the entertainment of cowards and weaklings.

[Joe Fields]

99. Dude, you are twisted, and you, too, two Americas.

Well wring your hands with glee and dance a fucking jig. Christmas may come early for you morons.

[Greyhound]

104. Nobody's dancing, we've been pointing out that you morans were cutting

you own throats for years by backing the dissolution of unions for 30 fucking years. UAW turned it's back on it's "brothers and sisters" for decades supporting this insanity. Look at what you helped do to Flint.

Now that you're getting what you helped do to them it's suddenly a catastrophe. Too bad there's nobody left to help you stand up to the parasites. But hey, I'm sure you can twist this around in your mind so that it is somehow our fault.

[alarimer]

56. Look at this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4502735

[GOTV]

69. That's just sick

[City Lights]

73. Thank you...I was going to post that if someone hadn't already done so. nt

[Pithlet]

58. Some against the bailout think they can reorg under bankruptcy

They're wrong, but that doesn't make them Un-American. A lot of the anti-worker posts here have been pissing me off, too but some of it is just misinformed opinion. Try not to broadbrush everyone. I know, it's been frustrating lately.

[Initech]

59. I'd fully support it if I knew the executives weren't going to see a fucking penny of it.

Look at AIG and how they completely and recklessly abused their bailout - a lot of it went to the executives (which in turn held a huge $440,000 conference in Costa Mesa, CA with lots of perks). I don't want to see GM and Ford get into that excess shit.

[Joe Fields]

61. I completely agree with you, and it's one that we have to hold our nose on.

Unfortunately, as with most things, of late, we don't get any say in this matter. When you have an industry that has shown arrogance, stubbornness, stupidity, gross mis-management and bloated payrolls for top company executives, and these same people who have been instrumental in bringing the industry to its knees comes to the govt. with hats in hand, begging for tax dollars to bail them out, then I say the govt. has them over a barrel, and is in a position to demand a few things from the industry. Things like higher CAFE standards, new alternative energy lines of vehicles, etc...

I don't know how much, in the way of demands that the govt. will place, if any, but I feel that we can't afford to do nothing.

[defendandprotect]

96. No -- we can demand that this failed leadership be outted ...

They've obviously been doing more work for oil industry

than for public/planet --

[spoony]

62. Rec'd

Except I'm not sure it's a "damned if we do" b/c I think there's a lot of worthwhile things coming up in Detroit design, but I certainly agree that we're worse than damned if we don't.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. Where were you all when the furniture industry and the textile industries

were gone?

trying to care....

[Quantess]

65. What makes auto industry jobs more precious than other jobs in the USA?

Are auto industry jobs more patriotic than other jobs?

[bluecollarcharlie]

66. Ask the people who...

....make the steel.
....make the glass.
....make the interior panels.
....make the computer chips.
....make the emission control equipment.
....supply the paint.
....make the rubber.
....make the seats.
.....DO THE FUCKING JOBS!!!!

Why is it always the limp-wristed intellectual neo-liberals who come scratching for our votes at election time snd then toss us aside as fast as possible?

[HeeBGBz]

67. .

[LanternWaste]

75. Regardless of where I stand on the loan...

Regardless of where I stand on the loan, I've been called worse things by better people.

No good reason for me to apply your label of what is or is not American or un-American to me, as it's nothing more than one more person lashing out at people who don't agree with them...

[akwapez]

79. I don't agree with you so I must be unAmerican.....

hmmmm...where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, everyday for the past 8 years.
Thanks for letting me know who I am.

[pampango]

80. No nuance, no grey area. You're either for us or you're against us.

That does sound vaguely familiar, doesn't it?

[old mark]

81. I'm unAmerican, too, then. I was a steward, and I want to see the unions

investigated as much as the company management.

The union higher-ups are as crooked as the company VP's and unions are way overdue for a little re-organizing.

By the way, Joe the Worker, fuck you too.

mark

[JackRiddler]

83. Total bullshit.

I'm not for a strings-free giveaway to Detroit, but I am all for a takeover of this dinosaur industry and its conversion to rational purposes.

Decapitate the bosses who destroyed these companies, stop making Hummers, start developing and producing compact e-cars and hybrids.

While you're at it, howzabout $25 billion to rebuild the railways? Or do you hate those workers?

[taught_me_patience]

84. It's unamerican to suggest that people with different opinions

than you are unamerican. Seriously, this post is completely offensive to me. As an American, I have the right to believe what I want to believe. I do not believe that a bailout of the auto industry is in the best interest of the country.

1) I don't think that it will work.
2) I don't believe that government should be funneling money to inefficient industry.
3) I don't believe that government should decide which companies to bail out and which to let fail. I work for an entertainment company that will go though layoffs this year. Are our jobs not as important?
4) I don't belive that bankruptcy of a big-three means millions of jobs lost. The people who fabricated this bullshit were, guess what, the AUTO industry!

We have a different opinion, but that doesn't make you or I any less American. Hell... it doesn't even make you or I any less democratic.

[AngryOldDem]

86. Then I'm unAmerican.

Why should I reward gross mismanagement? Why should I have any faith that if the auto execs get what they want, they all won't fly to Palm Springs in their private jets and blow it on self-congratulatory parties for once again duping and screwing over Congress and the American people?

It was a fair question that was asked and NOT answered the other day: What plans do they have to restructure themselves to become competitive again? If they answer that to my satisfaction, then I'll be more open to the idea of bailing out yet another industry that has been pillaged by the greed of a few.

Have them file Chapter 11 or whatever and start over. The government, of course, should be there while they do so...but to just hand out billions because the CEOs want it, and they want it NOW? No.

[Romulox]

89. Save your "restructuring" crap for AIG, Mr. "free markets". nt

[AngryOldDem]

103. That's Ms. to you.

And my point still stands. No money until they have a plan.

[defendandprotect]

88. It's NOT bail out or none ...read the posts.. electric cars and workers run it --

[Joe Fields]

90. What I'm reading are a lot of people's opinions, none of which enter into

any negotiations. There is going to be only one of two things that will happen: either the auto industry gets bailed out in some manner, or it won't get bailed out. So, either you are for one, or you aren't. Where do you fall?

[defendandprotect]

97. See Msg #47 above ---

[leftchick]

91. I agree but

I would rather it be a Loan based on severe conditions including a ceiling on CEO pay and ridding all three of top management. Or perhaps the government taking control for a year and firing top management, righting the ship on the correct course then letting it set sail.

But in the end you are right, we need to do something and now!

[mdmc]

92. I know

Nothing is more "American" then the Hummer.

I've always been against it. God Bless it!

[riqster]

93. My reply to this simplistic OP:

[defendandprotect]

98. Agree -- "Just say 'Yes'" simple __!!! Nice link/post, as well ...

Handing my boss money does not automatically put money in my pocket
In fact, it's pretty damned likely that he'll blow the cash on whatever bimbette he's been banging since his wife finally kicked the old skirt-chaser out of the house.

On the other hand, if you give my boss funding that can only be used for restructuring and improving productivity and tie it to a comp package for the workers, yeah, I might see of that.

Me and my boss do NOT have a joint checking account. No more do autoworkers.

After Congress handed a bunch of dough to the financial industry with insufficient conditions on its use, and saw the Wall Street tycoons use it for bonuses and vacations, they damned well OUGHT to be skeptical of a crew of Detroit fat cats who fly up in G4s, pleading poverty. The workers are hurting, but the CEOs are still flying high. Until they get their houses in order, let 'em sell their fancy jets to raise some cash.

[riqster]

102. Thanks nt

[gulliver]

101. With Dems in charge, you damn betcha!

New Orleans is below sea level; we're rebuilding.

Obama won't let the money go to criminals. Hurricane George and the Republican Flood are just about over. Time to rebuild...better than before.