"The shift in Catholics alone more than accounted for Prop. 8's 5 percent margin of victory."

[EFerrari]

Catholics, Mormons allied to pass Prop. 8
Matthai Kuruvila, Chronicle Religion Writer
Sunday, November 9, 2008
San Francisco Chronicle

Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.

Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California.

The June letter from Niederauer drew in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and proved to be a critical move in building a multi-religious coalition - the backbone of the fundraising, organizing and voting support for the successful ballot measure. By bringing together Mormons and Catholics, Niederauer would align the two most powerful religious institutions in the Prop. 8 battle.

... The last Field Poll, conducted a week before the election, showed that weekly churchgoers increased their support in the final week from 72 percent to 84 percent. Catholic support increased from 44 percent to 64 percent - a jump that accounted for 6 percent of the total California electorate and equivalent to the state's entire African American population combined.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/09/MNU1140AQQ.DTL

[BlooInBloo]

1. Pfft. It was clearly because of under-1.5 million black voters....

I know this because white folks tell me it's so. And they would never make shit up about black folks.



EDIT: Not God bless the site software, but GODDAMN the site software for not letting me use a fucking less-than sign!

[EFerrari]

2. The really insane part is that the votes in CA haven't even been counted yet

let alone, audited for accuracy.

But the media has pushed the "black people hate gays" story like they were having a fire sale.

I think I need a break and I'm glad you haven't been here to see this.

[BlooInBloo]

5. It's ok. They hate mortgages too, if you'll recall. The power white folks attribute to them...

is enough to make a Back To The Future time machine with.

[EFerrari]

6. It's amazing how quickly CNN becomes a fucking oracle

after we've seen time and again how wrong they are willing to be with straight faces.

I'm going to follow up on this guy here in San Francisco. And he's not going to like it. Sonuvabitch.

[bliss_eternal]

7. .

self delete.

[EFerrari]

9. Check out this poll from Loyola Marymount. Available on election night, too.

It shows the black vote splitting much closer to the way the white vote did but someone chose not to go with it.

How did you vote on the following: Prop. 8, Eliminates Right of
Same-Sex Couples to Marry. Initiative Constitutional Amendment?

Region Ethnicity
All Non- Valley White Hispanic Black Asian
valley
N = 1200 (100%) (62%) (38%) (55%) (24%) (15%) (6%)

Yes 30% 32% 27% 18% 50% 47% 36%
No 57% 54% 62% 75% 39% 40% 50%
Didn't vote 1% 2% 0% 0% 3% 3% 1%
No response 11% 12% 10% 7% 8% 10% 14%
Total 99% 100% 99% 100% 100% 100% 100%

(C) 2008 Leavey Center for the Study of Los Angeles Presidential
General Election Exit Poll in the City of Los Angeles. Preliminary
results as of November 4, 2008 at 6:00 p.m. Margin of error is +/-
2.8% for All category.






http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20081105/pl_usnw/the_leavey_center_for_the_study_of_los_angeles_reports_initial_results_from_its2008_presidential_election_exit_poll

And the thing is, we still don't know which one is closer to what happened.

[mzmolly]

19. K and R.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

23. Thank you, mzmolly.

:hi:

[ContinentalOp]

68. Huh? Maybe I'm reading that wrong but...

It looks to me like it's saying black voters went 47-40 in favor and white voters went 75-18 against 8 in the city of Los Angeles. Aren't you one of the people who were asking why it passed in L.A.? And take a look at the hispanic numbers, 62-24 in favor.

So compared to the CNN statewide poll, this poll suggests that white voters in L.A. are more liberal on this issue, black voters are slightly more liberal but still supported 8, and latino voters are more conservative than the statewide average.

[EFerrari]

77. I'm sorry I couldn't figure out how to keep the formating.

You are reading right.

[Gormy Cuss]

3. I'm glad that the Chronicle is staying on this story.

I'm also glad that protests are targeting the right groups.

[EFerrari]

4. Yes. We need to know the organizations that used the lives of our people

like red meat to bait their insane base.

[bliss_eternal]

8. .

self delete.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Thanks for that very informative article

rec'd

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

11. My pleasure. n/t

[kwassa]

12. Surely it was black Mormons and black Catholics, right?

Had to be the black people's fault!

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

17. Did the cable channels even MENTION the Catholic Church

which we know is chock full of black people, especially in its leadership!

lol

[EFerrari]

13. Here's a good article on Niederhauer before he came to San Francisco:

Niederauer marks decade of change

Utah Catholics embrace the bishop's leadership
By Carrie A. Moore
Deseret Morning News
Published: Friday, Jan. 21, 2005 12:45 p.m. MST

"Will you receive me?"

It was a question no one inside the Cathedral of the Madeleine had to ponder a decade ago, as George Niederauer stood alone outside its large wooden doors on a winter night, knocking in completion of an ancient Catholic ritual that new bishops ask of their parishioners.

Utah Catholics had waited a year to hear his knock on Jan. 25, 1995, and their continuing response during the past 10 years has been a reaffirmation of their initial open-door reception. For many, Bishop George H. Niederauer has come to symbolize the heart of what is right about their faith in a world that often questions it.

The bishop's motto — "To serve and to give" — comes from a verse in the Gospel of St. Mark. Sandy, St. George, Price, Ogden — he was here less than a month before he traveled the state, seeking out the people he had been called to lead. What he found was a much larger diversity of language and culture than he had anticipated, and he set out to take the faith to parishioners in their own tongue.

Today, Catholic Mass in Utah is spoken in nine languages, and the bishop has learned to speak it in Spanish for the ever-growing population Hispanic population that continues to fill the pews. It's a continuing challenge to provide services "and to recognize and respect and celebrate our cultural differences," he said, noting that Vietnamese, Hmong, Filipino, Korean, Polish, Sudanese and Tongan parishioners are also present in the diocese.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,600106379,00.html?pg=1

[EFerrari]

14. Neiderhauer's very close friend works at the Vatican.

Another article written shortly after he was appointed to San Francisco that talks about that relationship.

Could Be Worse, But Could Be Better
Utah's Bishop Comes to San Francisco

BY CHRISTOPHER ZEHNDER

Last May, when Archbishop William Levada was appointed prefect of the Holy See's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a reporter asked him if he thought his successor in San Francisco would be "more moderate" than himself; to which Levada answered, "it's hard for me to imagine anyone more moderate than myself."

Hard, perhaps, but obviously not impossible.

The appointment of San Francisco's former archbishop to the Vatican congregation that oversees orthodox teaching in the Church left many Catholics wondering, "why did Pope Benedict choose Levada?" Many of the same Catholics were again left scratching their heads when, in December, they heard that Pope Benedict XVI had chosen Utah's Bishop George Niederauer to succeed Levada in the archdiocese. San Francisco, it appeared, was getting someone more moderate than Levada, if that were possible.

The appointment of Niederauer to San Francisco seems to betray Levada's influence. The December 16 Los Angeles Times said the appointment shows "Levada's new influence in Rome," according to "one longtime church observer" -- Jesuit Father Thomas Reese, erstwhile editor of America magazine. Reese, "who has written books about American bishops," said the Times, "noted that Levada is also a member of the Congre gation of Bishops, which recommends candidates for bishop to the pope. Levada and Niederauer are longtime friends and classmates, Reese said."



http://www.sffaith.com/ed/articles/2006/0602cz.htm

[EFerrari]

15. Niederhauer criticized for giving award to gay marriage, abortion supporter

Archbishop to give highest honours to gay "rights" supporter

The Catholic Archbishop of San Francisco, George Niederauer has announced that he will include a well-known supporter of abortion and Planned Parenthood in his annual diocesan philanthropy award, reports Hilary White, LifeSiteNews.com. George M. Marcus, the founder and chairman of the Marcus & Millichap Co., a real estate investment firm, has donated funds to oppose protecting children from abortion, and to support embryonic stem cell research and homosexual "marriage".

California Catholic Daily reports that in October 2005 Marcus donated $25,000 to the "No" campaign on Proposition 73 that would have required that parents of an underage girl be notified before she has an abortion. He gave a total of $100,000 in 2006 to oppose a similar notification measure, Proposition 85. Both measures were supported by the California bishops Conference.

Marcus also donated $50,000 to the "Yes on 71" campaign that succeeded in seeing $3.5 billion allocated by the government for embryonic stem cell research. In May 2007, Marcus gave $3,600 to the "Mark Leno for Senate" campaign. Every year, Assemblyman Leno sponsors legislation to overturn Prop. 22 and legalize same-sex "marriage" in California.

Niederauer told the San Francisco diocesan newspaper that the annual Catholic Charities CYO's Loaves and Fishes Award is given to those who show "genuine concern for and effective action in improving the lives of those in need in our community." The awards will be given out tonight at Catholic Charities' annual "Loaves and Fishes" gala dinner.

(4/08)
http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue1631.html

[EFerrari]

16. East Bay Express: Yup, it was the Catholics

Prop. 8: Yup, It was the Catholics


November 10, 2008
Related Posts: Politics, Religion

Looks like the Roman Catholic Church played a more important role in banning gay marriage than previously thought. During the campaign, everyone was struck by how much money the Mormon church was dumping into the Yes on 8 coffers, but the Chron reports that it was San Francisco Archbishop George Niederauer who personally recruited the Mormons to the effort. Niederauer had been bishop of the Salt Lake City diocese for 11 years, and he tapped his Mormon contacts when the time came to slap the homos around. Of course, as the story points out, the No on 8 campaign made its share of stupid mistakes, downplaying gays and lesbians, as if they weren't front and center in this whole conversation. In addition, Prop. 8 opponents instructed their volunteers to steer clear of talking about children when chatting up voters, but it turns out that was what most people wanted to talk about, and the team had no answer ready.

Anyway, the Mormons got what they wanted. And over the weekend, hundreds of people let them know what they think of their nasty agenda, rallying in front of the Oakland Mormon temple. According to the Trib, the demo forced Caltrans officials to shut down freeway off-ramps near the temple for more than three hours. Cry me a friggin' river. — Chris Thompson


http://www.eastbayexpress.com/blogs/prop__8__yup__it_was_the_catholics/Content?oid=863063

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

20. I wouldn't go that far. But it is very very clear that Neiderauer masterfully

deflected attention from himsself and blame from the Church.

We have San Franciscans going across the bay to demonstrate at the Morman temple when the puppeteer is right here in town.

He threw the rock and then hid his throwing arm.

Use Mormon money and blame black Baptists. The opposition is now in disarray because gays feel hated by blacks, and he reaps the kudos for his strategery. :shrug:

[CatholicEdHead]

21. Right wing Catholics did alot of outreach

CatholicsforMarriage.com, Catholics for the Common Good: A New Catholic Action (and a major rip off of left leaning groups if you take A New Catholic Action out), Catholic Answers (based in San Diego), Ave Maria Radio, (ir)Relevant Radio, and others worked their butts off to push it to pass. Their email outrreach was disgusting but very well targeted and organized.

[EFerrari]

22. My former church is one of the oldest, most successful political machines on the planet.

I'm frankly impressed by not only the organization but the PR people who thought this through right down to the blame shifting. :shrug:

/oops. freep grammar!

[Starry Messenger]

60. Nail meet hammer.

Focus groups went into this without a doubt. How they must be laughing. :(

[EFerrari]

61. I know.

:(

:hug:

[nichomachus]

25. "Right-wing Catholics" -- five points off for redundancy

There may be some liberal Catholics, but not in positions of power. Anyone from slightly right of center to the left was purged during the reign of JP II -- who turned the church into a fascist organization.

[EFerrari]

26. Then the redundancy would be "rightwing Catholic leaders".

I know a bunch of commie pinko Catholics, some of them right here on this board. :)

[CatholicEdHead]

True, there is a major disconnect between the pews and Rome

across most parts of the country. The current group will eventually loose their power base as the mindless "pay, pray, and obey" group fades into irrelevance in the real world.

[EFerrari]

35. This guy in San Francisco is Machiavellian. Someone needs to get that

and plan for it. What a piece of work.

[noiretextatique]

24. where is the guy who was blaming black, female churchgoers last week?

:eyes: where is the person who claimed "the math" proved Prop 8 passed because of black people?
where is the person who claimed Prop 8 wouldn't have passed if more black people had not voted for it? (only black people, mind you) :eyes:

the catholic support for prop 8 alone provided more votes than the total of votes cast by black people for and against Prop 8.

i am waiting for people to admit they were wrong and retract some of the outrageous crap from last week. at the very least, they should get their heads out of their asses NOW.

[nichomachus]

27. Reporting demographics is not "blaming"

So unwad your bloomers.

[EFerrari]

30. Reporting rumor as fact is not reporting demographics.

Going on a self indulgent witch hunt is not "reporting demographics".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. The same argument was used in the defense of "The Bell Curve."

You remember "The Bell Curve."

It was the book some "scientists" wrote proving that black people were mentally inferior to white people.

[noiretextatique]

32. it's called LYING, actually...outrageous lying

claiming that black people were the reason Prop 8 passed, that is.

conflating this:
70% of black voters voted yes on Prop 8

with this:
prop 8 passed because of the black people who voted for it

is complete horseshit. if you are still pushing that SHIT, then you are full of shit. that would include your bloomers :eyes:

[Cali_Democrat]

43. It's race-based scapegoating and it's disgusting

[EFerrari]

46. The president of the CA NAACP has been opposing H8

and we haven't heard much of there here, have we?

ETA: link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4430830

[goclark]

58. The National NAACP was for NO on 8

and Maxine Waters, Diane Watson, Yvonne Burke, Karen Bass and Mark Ridley thomas in Los Angeles.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Was that the one claiming the problem with black people...

is "hypermasculinity?"

or was that the other guy?

[EFerrari]

33. Someday, I hope we have the available brain cells not to buy in

the second the cable channels tell us that one of our own is against us.

It's so saddening.

[noiretextatique]

34. it was the other one: black female churchgoers

and only black female churchgoers, were the reason Prop 8 pass. theboss is his moniker.
probably against the rules, but i don't care.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Ah, yes. That guy.

I'm well familiar with him.

[noiretextatique]

38. i was not...but i will keep an eye on him eom

[EFerrari]

29. Someone suggested that if black people hadn't voted, it wouldn't have passed.

I still don't believe that one.


But the real take away is, how EASY IS IT to propagandize us? Too goddammed easy.

[noiretextatique]

36. way too fng easy, especially when it comes to race

something some people need to remember now that we have an african-american president-elect.

[EFerrari]

39. . . .

:hug:
:grouphug:

[ContinentalOp]

69. I claimed that based on the CNN exit poll data.

And it's true if that data is in fact true.

Later I came to understand that the poll was deeply flawed and I backed off of that assertion. Still, the LMU poll you linked to above shows that, at least in the city of Los Angeles, black and latino voters did support 8 while white voters overwhelmingly opposed it.

[EFerrari]

78. I wasn't referring to you, ContinentalOp.

There is more work to do in minority communities but the biggest shift was among Catholics, not voters of color. Black Yes voters are less than 5% of the Yes votes, remember?

[K8-EEE]

40. My mom's Catholic church they ended with a "reminder"

that "we consider marriage a sacrament between one man and one woman."

BUT THEY DON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE CIVIL MARRIAGE AT ALL! When I got married in the church they told us we were "living in sin," we had been married by a justice of the peace here in CA.

So it makes no sense....and mom DID vote NO ON 8!

[EFerrari]

45. Good for her!

:)

[EFerrari]

41. In sum: One of the most powerful American Catholics, George Niederauer,

recruited Mormon money and then launched a PR campaign to blame black Baptists.

That's why people are protesting at Mormon temples and that's why we've had six days of ugliness directed against black CA voters. Niederauer has gotten exactly what he wants and none of the blame.

We still don't know how CA black voters voted. We have two polls. The Mitofsky poll says 70% in favor. Someone should have looked up Mitofsky last Tuesday. The Loyala poll says only 47% in favor. Someone should look them up, too.

Archbisohop Niederauer was playing chess and No on H8 were playing checkers. We fell for it. And for most of the last week on DU, we've fallen for the talking point that black "yes" voters did this because CNN said so.

[ContinentalOp]

70. The Loyola poll is only for the city of Los Angeles. -nt-

[EFerrari]

80. Yes, I realize that. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

42. Well, I'm glad that's settled.

We won't have to have any of that messy meaningful dialogue now. :eyes:

[EFerrari]

44. Model the respect you want. That would be a good start.

Messy dialogue? How much messier can it get than you and others running with a flawed poll to trample the black community for days?

Let's have that "messy dialogue".

[noiretextatique]

47. i suspect those who want to believe Prop 8 passed because of black voters

will continue to do so. thanks for posting this article...it really helps put things in perspective. i couldn't believe what i was seeing here and on craigslist after the election. i figured there was an organized effort going on, and now we know who was behind it. still...it would nice to see some of the people who were so convinced that the black community and only the black community caused Prop 8 to pass comment in this thread.

[goclark]

49. Thank you for your post

I am African American and was a strong supporter of NO on 8.
After the unkind remarks and responses to me here at DU, I feel it's best for me to remain neutral.

Please wake me when it is safe for an African American to discuss this issue in a civil manner again.

[EFerrari]

51. goclark, I have your back.

And I apologize to you.

[goclark]

56. thanks sfexpat2000

:hug:

[noiretextatique]

52. i know what you mean...i am also a AA who voted no on 8

i have been battling the "blacks caused Prop 8 to pass" meme here for the past week. it's even more galling to me because i am gay. it was like we...black people who voted NO on 8...didn't exist.

i believe you can wake up now, but we will see how things go in the next few days :hi:

[goclark]

57. Thanks noireblu

I was beginning to believe I was on an alternate universe.

It's like getting slapped in the face by a friend who is on the same side of the argument.

To be honest, I was so shocked by the mean spirited challenges because of my race, I have not even tried to discuss this issue with people that I interact with that voted YES.

I didn't have the heart to explain that even though I voted NO, it was not appreciated.

From my view,this issue needs all the friends it can get to fight for justice.


I have several friends that are gay and because they have told me how frustrated they were at the run up to the election, I gave my money, my voice and my time.

As I said before, wake me when I will be respected for my NO vote and wake me when the bashing of my African American brothers and sisters stops.

That is not the way to win friends and influence people in a positive way.

[noiretextatique]

64. aside from a few obdurant types here

i truly believe the YES on 8 shock troops were sent out to stir up the gullible. if you look at the tactics they used before the vote (think of the children :scared: ) and the sheer idiocy and racism of some of the stuff that was posted on the net, we know it was CONCERTED effort by the usual suspects mentioned in the article...all a part of the plan. aside from the obdurant ones here, having been in the thick of the battle, i can't tell you how happy i am about the wonderful DUers who did not buy the nonsense. cheer up, goclark...many people here were, and are, fighting the good fight. people like the friend who started this thread were calling that nonsense the racist scapegoating that it was last week.

i gave up on homophobes a long time ago, but i am happy to know that people like you are willing to get out there and change some hearts and minds. i understand exactly how you feel, trust me, but i also know that you won't let this BS stop you :hug:

[goclark]

65. I do appreciate your thoughts

and I agree completely.

[EFerrari]

53. It's hard to understand why someone would be so ready to "fix" black culture

and not so quick to fix their own inclination to blame black voters in the absence of hard facts.

[noiretextatique]

54. they believe black people are more homophobic

than white, latino and asian people. i can't say if that is or isn't true myself, however that meme has been circulating for a few years here. i believe it's been based on the words of a couple of black ministers.

[EFerrari]

55. Well, for a community that prides itself on being fact based, we fail. n/t

[ContinentalOp]

71. It's not just a "meme" that has been circulating for a few years.

Homophobia among African Americans and catholic Latinos has been talked about in the media for decades. Now, maybe it's an unfair, racist stereotype, but it's hardly an idea that was manufactured last week to create a scapegoat for prop 8.

[noiretextatique]

72. i do think it has reached meme status here

stuff like "black people caused Prop 8 to pass" is posted as absolute truth. and...i am not convinced that black people are more homophobic than whtie people.

[Karenina]

73. But it sure as Hell worked as intended in this issue!

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Dot connecting time

The alliance tween the Catholic Church and the LDS is a test run and ramp up for Romeny 2012, make no mistake. Both churches have reason to stop the Palin wing of the GOP.
Already the LDS has been splitting a gut that they are being called out for their actioins. The LDS has a racial history that rather than repeat I will assume is well known.
So. A bunch with a racist track record and hard core Republican politics and a candidate they are grooming (like Mitt doesn't groom himself enough) for 2012, fund a divisive bill, push it like hell, and then turn around and point fingers at, how convenient for them really, the African American community. Hence drawing attention from their obvious motives and deeds, and causing trouble between two Democratic voter blocks, whom they also dislike beyond the Democrat thing.
Attack the gays, blame the blacks, shout 'religious oppression' and start building alliances for 2012. That is what the whole thing is.
Obviously religous folks of all sorts went for the ploy, but a ploy it was, with ultimate goals that really have nothing to do with marriage, or gay folk, or anything of the sort. This is Republican rat fuck politics, wrapped up in magic underwear and priest's vestments.

[EFerrari]

50. And they pushed it off on black voters.

:puke:

[goclark]

63. Bingo! That is exactly what I think happened

and it sure did work.

I just hope there can be a mending of fences with the African American community.

Do they/we need educating on this issue --- yes, African Americans need to be educated and that can only be done with ridges of friendship,not hate.

Does my entire Race need to be stomped on for being AA while casting a vote for 8 -- hell NO!

Believe me now or believe me later -- this was set up not by AA's at all. They/we were the traditional one to blame.

[Karenina]

66. This is an excerpt from a People for the American Way memo

The Right’s Big Investments Pay Big Dividends

The Religious Right has invested in systematic outreach to the most conservative elements of the Black Church, creating and promoting national spokespeople like Bishop Harry Jackson, and spreading the big lie that gays are out to destroy religious freedom and prevent pastors from preaching about homosexuality from the pulpit.

In addition, Religious Right leaders have exploited the discomfort among many African Americans with white gays who seem more ready to embrace the language and symbols of the civil rights movement than to be strong allies in the continuing battle for equal opportunity. At a series of Religious Right events, demagogic African American pastors have accused the gay rights movement of “hijacking” and “raping” the civil rights movement.

The effort to stir anti-gay emotions among African Americans by suggesting that gays are trying to “hijack” the civil rights movement is not new. During a Cincinnati referendum in 1993, anti-gay groups produced a videotape targeted to African American audiences; the tape featured Trent Lott, Ed Meese and other right-wing luminaries warning that protecting the civil rights of lesbians and gay men would come at the expense of civil rights gains made by the African American community. It was an astonishing act of hypocrisy for Lott and Meese to show concern for those civil rights gains, given their career-long hostility to civil rights principles and enforcement, but the strategy worked that year. Eleven years later, however, African American religious leaders and voters helped pass an initiative striking the anti-gay provision from the city charter. (The story of that successful fairness campaign is told in an award-winning mini-documentary — A Blinding Flash of the Obvious — that is part of a Focus on Fairness toolkit produced by People For the American Way Foundation.)

In California this year, national and local white anti-gay religious leaders worked hard to create alliances with African American clergy; Harry Jackson was busy in both California and Florida stirring opposition to marriage equality. None of the Right’s outreach to African Americans on gay rights issues in recent years has been a secret. Neither has polling that showed some deterioration in African American support for full equality. But there hasn’t been the same investment in systematic outreach from the gay rights community.

[Starry Messenger]

59. k&r

[EFerrari]

62. Thank you. It takes us so long to sort out what's real.

And in the mean time, acting out all over the universe.

Please let's stay together.

[goclark]

67. Thanks so much ~ we liberals tend to be so passionate

about issues that mean so much to us that we have a hard time not giving a knee jerk reaction.

The problem with that is when we jerk and don't have all the facts yet.

As an African American I understand how deeply any trace of mistreatment can cut to the core.

But,in my view, Obama is the model that we need to follow in these trying times.

Before I start hurting people's feelings and slapping the keys hard on my computer, I say to myself, " What would Obama Want Me To Do?"

At least 100 times during the campaign I wanted to hit somebody but I didn't and when the dust settled, Obama brought us through it with dignity and grace.

[mitchtv]

74. when all that is said an done there is one conclusion

Blacks are not the victims here .LGBT are. Responsiblity? every single fucking scumbag who voted for it RED,White,, black , Xian , RC,Jew, mor(m)ons especially those who call themselvs DEMS.

[Karenina]

75. We, of many descriptions on this board, DID NOT SUPPORT IT.

Capiche?

[mitchtv]

76. anyone say you did?

[EFerrari]

79. So very quick to brush off the scapegoating of black CA voters.

Whatever works for you.