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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 12:38 PM
Original message
Banks To Us: "Thanks For The Cash - Now Fuck Off, Suckers"
Remember the $700B that was *desperately* needed so the banks could loan it? Well, the banks took the cash, but they're holding on to it instead of loaning it - and they're not ashamed to say so.

From today's NY Times: Loans? Did We Say Wed Do Loans?

"Now, lo and behold, with $250 billion in bailout funds committed to dozens of large and regional banks, it turns out that many of the recipients of this investment from taxpayers are not all that interested in making loans. And it appears that Mr. Paulson is not so bothered by their reluctance...

Asked how an infusion of $25 billion of bailout funds would change the banks lending policy, an executive said the money would be used to buy other banks. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way, the executive said. He added that the money could also be used as a backstop in case recession turns into depression or what happens in the future.

There was not a word about lending not to businesses or home buyers or car buyers or students or other consumers. Just the opposite. In response to another question, the executive said that the bank expected to continue to tighten credit.

JPMorgan Chase is not alone. The Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday that some regional-bank recipients of the bailout money had acknowledged that only a small portion would be used for loans and the rest for acquisitions and other purposes."


------------------------------------

This has been obvious for at least a week, but the NY Times seems to be the only outlet covering it.

So: we've bee exquisitely screwed, yet again, by politicians yelling that the sky is falling. I hope we feel *real* good about the $3,000 or so we've each spent on further enriching the Predator Class.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. why is that executive not named in the article??
A JP Morgan executive. Directly quoted. Not named. Why not???
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Prison time
It's time for some of these executives to go to jail. The full force of the Justice Department needs to investigate violations RICO statues, fraud and market manipulation. We should demand the Justice department pursue this as rabidly as any terror investigation. Assets seizure should be instituted against these perpetrators in the same way assets are seized from drug dealers. It's time we stopped being led meekly to the slaughter in this class warfare inflicted upon us.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Fuck prison, we need guillotines!
Subjecting a few of them to the guillotine will do wonders to adjust the attitudes of the rest...
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asteroid2003QQ47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
126. We need 4,188 guillotines, 2 per city.
One for perps and one for enablers!
If attitudes were not seriously re-adjusted
after round one, repeat as often as needed.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
55. I second that..
... emotion, and frankly, I'll be surprised if it DOESN'T happen.

People are going to be plenty angry a year from now.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank God It Passed
Just sayin'. :)
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
70. DU's version of "let them eat cake".
Likewise uttered by someone too sure of themselves to see what was happening.

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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
86. Same as the airline bailout after 9-11. United used it to fund their
business airline leasing division for the executives who fly private jets to private terminals. They didn't use it for their passenger business.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. You'd think that Charlie Brown would eventually learn..
That Lucy is *always* going to jerk the football away..

But noooooo..
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. Thank you for reminding DU about that (forgotten)
fact.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. tar and feathers
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
87. $850 Billion for the BFEE and not one thin dime for universal health care.
Now THAT's NAZI. Really love Hank the 700 millionaire.



Como handas, Herman'? To's bien?

Palante! Casi, casi...
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Oi!
:hi: Todo bien? Muy ocupado aqu...




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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. If they don't want it, then give it back. nt
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Where did all the bailout cheerleaders go?
They were all over this place a month ago.

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I want to line them all up and kick their collective asses
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 01:32 PM by Cronus Protagonist
Although that would do little to repair the damage they've done.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. *blows dog whistle*
They should be here any second now.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. But-but-but- Didnt you "do your research" like they advised?
I'm sure this all makes PERFECT sense if you "do some research on the economy and stop commenting on things you know nothing about..."

LOL! 'member that one?
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You just don't understand...........
The bailout wasn't meant to prevent __________________________!

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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Yeah, no shit.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
100. They are still around, I am not holding my breath on any of them admitting
how wrong they were.

When are they going to learn? When Feingold, Kucinich and Conyers are against it, it is for a good reason. These people time and time again are told how out of step they are and yet history proves them right time after time.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
117. Indeed.
eom
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. You mean they actually thanked us?
That's more than I thought they would do for us.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. the banks should get punished after this bullshit stunt
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. what do we expect when an ex-Wall Street tycoon (Paulson - Goldman-Sachs)
RUNS our Federal Treasury?

This is a BLATANT conflict of interest. I'm SURE the BFEE noticed. I'm SURE that's WHY he was appointed.

The way it was previously put is that "With that $700 BILLION, Paulson just threw himself a pass that he will catch in about 3 months or so." (not exact words, but you get the idea - WE'VE BEEN ROBBED).
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. More than that, sweetie - try about $10,000 per wage earner from their paychecks
going to finance this boondoggle.
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1awake Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. why was JPMorgan given funds in the first place,
Out of most of them out there.. they should have been one of the few who DIDN'T "need" it.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Cause they're in good w/the Bush Adm.
There's been lots of reports that the Treasury Dept. is cherry-picking which banks it "bails out" & which it allows to fail based on how close the bank is to the Bush Adm. And in this article, a bank executive brags that the "bailout" money allows them to "buy out" other banks, while never offering the money in loans to consumers. All of this consolidates the wealth, both public & private, into the hands of a increasingly small capitalist elite - a capitalist elite connected to the government in power. Corporatism. Oligarchy. Economic feudalism.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
103. You got THAT all WRONG
They are cherry picking which banks they are giving the money to...deliberately NOT funding certain banks so that the cherry picked CRONEY banks get prime real estate holdings at bargain basement prices.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #103
119. You are right. This is pure cronyism. But then, what do you expect from
Bush. May I point out that there is no evidence that Robert Rubin will be one bit better than or even different from Paulson. Two peas in a pod -- Rubin and Paulson. Rubin pretends to be a Democrat, but I don't trust him. Obama does apparently trust Rubin so I wonder whether Obama will just go along to get along or really stand up for Americans. We shall see.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #103
120. Uh, that's what I said
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 10:19 AM by Marie26
Maybe I wasn't being clear? They're funding Bushco. crony banks, deliberately NOT funding non-Bush crony banks, which become undercapitalized & overleveraged & easier for Bushco crony banks to snap up w/the bailout funds. All of that consolidates the private bank wealth into the hands of a smaller capitalist elite, while the bailout effectively also funnels $700 billion dollars of public funds to that same capitalist elite. So the crony banks get the public money, and the private money, in one step. They hoard the massive amounts of money & don't issue loans. Meanwhile, the federal gov. cuts public jobs because it's run out of money. So the middle-class has lost jobs, lost credit & lost access to loans, while the top .001% gets even more wealth funneled upward to them. That's corpratism in action, gov. used to benefit a corporate oligarchy, & create even more class stratification. It was a way of robbing from the poor public to give to the rich, connected capitalists & most Americans knew it.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #120
130. Sorry I forgot that humor and sarcasm was long gone from here
I know what you said...I was just reiterating it in a different way.
My apologies. I'll not do it again.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is surprising how?
Why would people think that banks would act in the "public interest"? That's not what they're about, or have ever been about. It's like throwing fish to a shark & being surprised that he won't share.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Where are all the DU egg-heads with their lectures now?
I predicted this kind of thing but was treated like a little kid who "doesnt know how these things work" by many a DUer.

Where are they now?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Vanished
Along with several hundred billion dollars. The only surprising thing is that I'm not surprised at all by the events, but surprised by the muleheadedness of some otherwise canny DUers.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. They Are On Other Threads Making Stupid Pronouncements
Or at least one of them is.

Thank God It Passed.

That sounds so good I think it bears repeating, a lot.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I had the same problem
And it was the last straw for me.

I'm done being right about how they are screwing us- the people who know better like myself will just have to get out of the way while the others throw themselves off a cliff because Bushco tells them to.

It's not like we can stop the gov't from robbing us anyway- too many people are willing to have everything taken from them in the name of "stable government."
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. And about 90% of the public knew we were getting screwed also
...at least, from what I read of the letters/calls etc. to Congress. It didn't take a genius to figure it out, and anytime someone says "you don't understand the complexities" of some matter that affects every one of us that ALONE ought to send up great billowing red flags. This is a democracy -or is supposed to be. The citizens are supposed to GET what going to war, or giving away the Treasury means. And they did.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
109. I wrote letters,called and sign petitions....
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 03:41 AM by unapatriciated
It fell on deaf ears.
There was nothing in the bail-out to force them to use it for loans, only strong suggestions.
Nothing in that give-away to help the millions losing their homes, instead they blamed them for getting in that situation.
The common line was, It was their fault for buying a home beyond their means. Even tho the number one reason for bankruptcy or foreclosure was medical cost.
I'm tired of give aways to Corporate America and being told that I don't understand the complex issues of the financial world.
Well I do understand that the victims of Katrina are still waiting, the gulf is a mess,people are losing their homes, jobs, no health care, I could go on an on.
Yet AIG and the banking industry take our money and spend it on full page adds thanking their investors,(not we the people) , expensive junkets or take-overs of other companies.



Again Kucinich was right.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. There is another one that keeps posting who swears their innocence & purity. Yeah right.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 03:42 PM by TheGoldenRule
:puke:

THE BAILOUT WAS ALL A FUCKING SCAM!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
82. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
94. It's a crime how pointing out the suckers who attacked us for being right gets posts deleted.
Guess they can't handle the truth that they were suckers.

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
101. I don't know how HamdenRice feels about...
...the bailout--but I do know that he is very knowledgeable about
the economy and the continued crisis that we will face with the economy.

I have appreciated his knowledge and insight on the coming downward
spiral we face, in large part due to the credit-card bubble bursting.

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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. Good question
Where the hell are all the DU bailout cheerleaders, and why haven't they apologized to the rest of this board?

They know who they are. They're the ones who told the rest of us- those of us opposed to the bailout- that we didn't know enough about finance to know what we were talking about. They were the ones who told us that if we didn't get the bailout passed, the reality bomb would resonate through every dimension, every parallel, every corner of creation itself (thank you, Davros). They were the ones who said the Weeping Angels had the phonebox, the Daleks were on their way, and we had to- HAD TO!!1!- obey The Master without blinking once (blink and your dead, you know), or it would be "Bad Wolf" all over everything, without a DoctorDonna to save the day.

Fools, the lot of them.

Where is our apology, you absolute, blithering idiots? WHERE IS OUR APOLOGY??
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. Along with the..
... "we have to do this bailout" quivering scaredy cats.

The bailout was and is useless, other than sucking dollars from working peoples' pockets and prolonging the agony of our financial meltdown.

Anyone reading who was advocating the bailout, "I effing told you so".
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
75. The truth has scrambled their brains into omelettes.
They cracked under the pressure of being so wrong, and they're too thin-shelled thin-skinned to admit it.

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. The Neocons don't do "bail-outs". Just "super bonuses".
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. The "neocons" didn't push this bailout down our throats. Reid, Pelosi, Frank, et al did. nt
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Don't be daft. It was Bush and his crowd who "leaned on" those broken reeds,
even threatening martial law, apparently, if they didn't approve it..
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. LOL. The Devil made Pelosi do it? Even if true, it just points to incompetence and impotence....nt
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. You're just muddle-headed. Why not make those accusations in your original post,
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 05:40 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
instead of making that idiotic accusation that they initiated the bail-out! You're just muddle-headed. They knew the Republicans own the media and were scared of the "spin" they'd put on it, if they rejected it.

Personally, I think their capitulation was pitiful and atrocious, but of course, that's a completely different matter from accusing them of having formulated it! That's beyond pitiful.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. The old "But-but-but- the media will be mean to us" argument. Where have we heard that one before?
Something tells me that some of us will continue making excuses no matter what.

11/05/08 will be a weird & wonderful time- and the DEMS better realize that the old-time, well-worn excuses wont work anymore.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. I read your claim that they were "intimidated" as an excuse. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'll concede that it is arguably a legitimate excuse- I just dont except it.

As far as you calling me liar for pointing out your use of an excuse- I've always noted that name calling is often used by people who cant back up their arguments/excuses...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. But when you called me a "liar"- it was because you had no more excuses left.
Look- I like a flame war as much as anyone else- but I'll bet we agree more than we disagree.

I jumped on you b/c I've seen these same excuses recycled over & over for going on 8 years, and they are very old hat at this point.

Would you like to save this for a post 11/05 thread -or shall we continue to discuss whether or not I'm a "liar" or a Republican Troll- and whether "they were intimidated" is an excuse or not?

I dont think I lied to anyone at all when I characterized your explanations as mere excuses- but I'll concede that you may have sincerely believed otherwise.

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Somehow I don't think future discussions between us would be productive.
But thanks for the invitation.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Especially when you accuse people of being liars & Republicans when they find disagreement with you.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:40 PM by Dr Fate
Interesting how you made an entire subthread about attacking me personally instead of defending or expanding on your "but they were intimidated" excuse on its merits.

This tells the reader that you would have been incapable of such a discussion on the merits.

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. One thing you need to understand. No matter how poorly the Democrats
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:45 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
perform, provided Obama makes election reform and media fairness top priorities, the Republicans will never, never get back in again. Do you understand. Never.

So you can whinge and whine as much as you like, in the hope that you can foment mistrust and hostility towards the Democratic team, and it won't do you a bit of good. Th Republicans are FINISHED.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. LOL! So Now I'm a against the DEM team because I disagree with *you* and your excuses?
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:58 PM by Dr Fate
LOL!

Just because I dont buy these excuses for giving the Republicans what they want does not make me a Republican.

I would argue that the excuse makers are the ones who are helping the Republicans, by excusing the more conservative DEMS for giving Bush whatever he wants...

Yeah- the Republicans are finished-and our guys will be in- so it will be interesting to see what excuses (and I hope we never see them again) we will feel the need to make for certain DEMS over the next few years. I hope it never comes to that again.

Again, you cant really defend your rationale about DEM bailout support- so you used 2 whole subthreads to indicate that I'm dishonest & hostile to the Democratic party as a whole just b/c I dont buy the excuses.







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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. I'm just laughing at your nay-saying in advance of a new Democratic administration.
It takes nay-saying on here to new depths.

And of all the times to invite me to carry on slagging off the Democrats, you choose this very moment when the country is almost delirious with excitement at the thought of getting rid of this crowd, and having a potential, political giant as Democratic President! That takes some beating.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. I invited you to continue to defend your excuses on 11/5/08, if you still feel the need.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 07:55 PM by Dr Fate
I think we are both hoping that these types of discussions/excuses wont be even be necessary.

I've indicated more than once that internal debate (AKA "nay-saying") on where DEMS should go can wait until after the the victory party.

I do recognize that all DEMS are not going to agree on everything, and I am indeed anticipating internal debates, possible excuse making, etc- if that "takes nay-saying on here to new depths"- then so be it.

Again-it is clear that you have no other tactic at this point but an erratic attempt to paint me as someone who is dishonest or disloyal to DEMS.

It's obvious that you have nothing else to say about the original subject- which I believe was about the bail out, not me as a person.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to come back and discuss the merits of the bail out and the various reasons or excuses for supporting it.

I'm done discussing your new subject about how you are supposedly a more loyal DEM than me.


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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #65
121. Now we have to worry about the neoliberals
One BIG reason why Pelosi, Obama et al supported the bailout is because they get a lot of their campaign funding from those same Wall Street banks.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. The old "but those DEMS were fooled" argument. Where have we heard that one b/f?
n/t
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I think you should see an optician. No-one has said they were fooled. They were
intimidated.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. And who is so easily "intimidated"? Why a "fool", of course.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:03 PM by Dr Fate
"Fooled", "intimidated"- same difference in this case.

An excuse is an excuse is an excuse.

One excuse in favor of another excuse is great, but whatever the excuse, it never changes the results.

In any event, I'm happy to keep things positive and hold off on talking about which DEMS are easily "fooled" and which DEMS are easily "intimidated" (is there a difference when it comes to the results?)until 11/05/08.

After 11/05/08, the old hand-wringing excuses will be obsolete, so use them up while you still can.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Claiming Pro-Bailout DEMS were "intimidated" is indeed an excuse.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:08 PM by Dr Fate
Just because you feel the need to make such excuses doesnt mean you have to call me a "liar."

In event, I say we pick this up again after DEMS sweep congress- then, if need be, we will see what new excuses we can come up with.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I thought you called me a "liar" for not accepting your "intimidation" excuse as well.(See post #50)
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:17 PM by Dr Fate
Intimidated, fooled- its all the same lame type of excuse to me. If that makes me a "liar"- so be it.

In any event, it is notable that you had to resort to name calling and questioning my political loyalty so early in the exchange...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. While you are incapable of discussion without pointed personal insults, apparently.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:30 PM by Dr Fate
So far you have accused me of being a "liar", of "questionable political loyalty" and apparently I'm illiterate for disagreeing with you as well.

In exchange, I've accused you of recycling the same old excuses (or similar excuses) that I've seen over & over for 8 years.

Okay-Okay they were "intimidated" by "the media"- and that is NOT just the same old excuse this time.

Is that better?

Can I go back to being a good, honest, literate, loyal DEM in your eyes now? LOL!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. What do you mean "go back to it"?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #67
79. More indications that you think I'm a Republican? I thought this was a thread about the bail out.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 07:16 PM by Dr Fate
Apparently your ability to discuss the subject at hand is quite limited- but your ability to smear fellow DUers as "liars" and "of questionable loyalty" etc is quite apparent, as it takes the place of you discussing the merits of your "DEMs were subject to intimidation (again)" theory.

I've been pretty civil to you considering everything you have accused me of.

Since you were done discussing the subject of the thread many posts ago, is there anything else you would like to accuse me of while you are on a roll?



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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. You thought... You thought the road went down there, but it doesn't. It goes
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 07:22 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
round in a circle and you're back where you started from.

You see, everything's emotive with you. I was simply pointing out elementary truths about your misrepresentations, and you take them as proof of personal animus on my part. I don't even want to talk to you. I resent the supercilious, scoffing tone of your nay-saying, but not enough to want to keep on accusing you of stuff for the sake of it. I only accuse you of what you say.

It's like when the Freeway Blogger wound up old Savage. Savage cursed him roundly and then said "You don't even know me!" To which the Freeway Blogger replied, "No, but I know what you say in your broadcasts." Why would the Freeway Blogger get a buzz out of making up accusations, when he was only responding to Savage's pathetic spiel? Well, he did get a buzz out of that, but you couldn't fail to.

Why would I want to argue with you when I don't respect your reasoning? You're also perfectly at liberty to disdain picking my brain. It's futile arguing with someone if your very assumptions are at odds with the other person's. I have a picture of you as an inveterate naysayer, who is even looking forward to nay-saying at some future date, when every Democrat will be full of hope. If it happens that Obama's administration disappoints, we'll be reluctant to acknowledge it to ourselves - and you're getting excited about it, and wanting to start a nay-sayers debating club!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. I called your explanation an excuse. Then you accused me of being a liar & a Republican.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 07:47 PM by Dr Fate
You turned two entire subthreads into personal attacks b/c you didnt like my characterization of all these old excuses-you were unable to argue otherwise so you called me a liar and tried to indicate that I'm not as loyal to DEMS as you are.

Apparently you are unable to discuss the bail out or the various reasons/excuses for supporting it at all.

Are we done yet?

Feel free to PM me if you want me to come back and discuss why certain DEMS may have supported the bail out, as opposed to why I'm supposedly a disloyal DEM for not agreeing with it.

I'm done discussing your new subject about how you are supposedly a more loyal DEM than me.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #85
118. Even more excellent. I don't believe in wasting my words. Or my time.
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 07:32 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
And I repeat, I don't want to join you as a founder member of a Democratic nay-sayers' club after the election.

"... as opposed to why I'm supposedly a disloyal DEM for not agreeing with it." Another "straw man" non sequitur. Come back when you've had a little more education. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll understand why I called the bail-out a "super bonus".

I know you're going to come back, and have the last word. More fool you. Every time you post you expose yourself to ridicule, and not just from me. Your posts are imbecilic.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #118
123. The mods have already deleted several of your word & time-wasting attempts to smear me above.
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 11:51 AM by Dr Fate
So at least those posts wont expose me to whatever ridicule it is I should be concerned about!

If you cant respect me, at least try to respect Skinner and DU the rules.

If you had actually made an attempt to discuss the bail out instead of 2 whole subthreads of engaging in smear attacks, I'll bet we would have found one or two issue related points to agree on.

So much for your belief in not wasting time or words- there are 2 whole subthreads (including your deleted posts) of you doing both.

Out of respect for the mods & DU rules, I vote we end this argument about my loyalty & honesty.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
113. i'm with you
bushies. motherfucking bushies.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
107. Thank you for promoting the truth , however unpleasant
The truth may be.
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Hurry, do it fast, must do it NOW! Bullshit from the start.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. I've learned that any deal requiring an immediate decision is a rip-off.
Legitimate business give you time to ponder.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. Those fuckers scammed us all and there is certainly more to come.
There is what, 2 1/2 months left? A LOT of damage can be done in that time.

I have NO doubt that * & Co is looking to privatize everything they can lay their hands on. :grr:

They have already started it by planning to slash postal workers jobs by 40K and looking to privatize the bulk mail facilities.

Read about it on this thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

:argh:
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. But, But, But.. so many self appointed know-it-all whizbang experts here on DU
assured us it was absolutely necessary. We were doomed without it, they said. They talked down to us and told us we 'couldn't understand the complexities'. I knew it was bullshit from the beginning. Many others did as well. Those that cried 'wolf' were merely trying to rally their anemic portfolios at everyone else's expense. Well, we got the bill, but nothing else.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. Obama & Krugman, Gordon Brown & Alistair Darling, Kevin Rudd & Wayne Swan
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 06:35 PM by depakid
along with a host of other world leaders and central and reserve bank members know a lot more about the global credit markets than posters on message boards do.

As with climate science, or medical science- some people prefer to look to the experts worldwide in forming opinions about complex effects of interventions- or failure to intervene, that we may only have a rudimentary (or perhaps no) grasp or understanding of.

Others prefer to look at day to day events in order to find confirmation of ideologies or pet theories.

Climate skeptics do that sort of thing all the time, and as a process, it's no different than some of the posts we see here at DU on these issues.







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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
89. It really is impossible for you to admit you were wrong, isn't it?
Sad.

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #89
110. What's sad is the instant gratification mentaility
and the sort of reckoning that wants everything now- in America, in whatever smaller part of America one happens to live, as opposed to looking longer term and wider, taking into consideration the rest of the world.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
99. Sometimes Horse Sense Trumps Learnedness
I've enjoyed reading your posts on this thread - you're clearly very smart, and I agree with much of what you're saying. But sometimes common sense wins over expertise.

(On the other hand... governing by "gut feel" is a really bad idea - so you may be right after all.)
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #48
108. Of they knew so much, why didn't it work??
That massive overwhelming financial tsunami hAS A FEW MORE ROUNDS OF GOING BACK OUT TO SEA, AND COMING IN AGAIN.

Krugman and others are nothing more than over-rated "experts" with blinders on from all the book learning.

The Bailout Bill was not worth the piece of paper it was printed on. As a nation, we middle income earners would have been better served by having had the $ 2,000 per man woman and child we will each spend to give the looters more bounty, instead deposited to our bank accounts, so we could pay it forward and up, rather than hoping, once again, that it will trickle on down.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. Hope this means they won't get any more of the $700 bn nt
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Corporate Welfare in action
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Irish Girl Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
36. Perhaps one positive? I know I'm grasping at straws here...
Sigh. I know it's gut wrenching for those who understood what was happening, and I'm still in shock our Treasury was looted right in front of our freaking faces. But as our economy continues to disintegrate, at least there will be no doubts from all the doubters whether or not this 'bailout' would've saved us.

Now excuse me while I pour myself another stiff drink.


:puke:
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thank Gawd It Passed.
yep. :eyes:
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. Their future payments can be delivered in the form of pitchforks
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 05:58 PM by Hardhead
With lots of hot tar to go with them.

They screamed FIRE! and our congresscritters just rolled over like they've been trained to do and gave them everything they wanted.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
44. In behaving like this, American banks are only making it increasingly certain
that a new administration and Congress will clamp down on them with even stricter regulations than may have been contemplated before.

Not a very wise move, and one suspects that many will come to regret it.

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
62. They are modern day Pirates
and those blokes do not give dividends.
I'm almost amused that everyone seems so shocked that the thieves just keep stealing.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. More like cowboy capitalism
at least that's how an Aussie all too familiar with the troubles described his thoughts about it to a couple of days ago. But to further that analogy, pretty soon, there are going to some new sherriff's in town.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #64
81. Pirates and Mafioso
is closer in my view.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #81
90. Pirate mafia? I smell sitcom!
NT!

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
66. Stricter than $2.2 billion no string gratuities from the American taxpayer? Heaven forfend! nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #66
95. Ever delved into banking, lending or securities regulations?
Tax consequences of commerical or property transactions?

In America or abroad?

They're not particulary amenable to broad brush assumptions, let alone sarcastic ideological statements.

Smart individuals- or smart lawyers or businesspeople, have either been taught or have learned to recognize when they're confronted with issues like that, and knowing that they're out of their depth- won't go Palinesque, but instead will look to credible specialists for advise.

Leaders like Barck Obama, Gordon Brown and Kevin Rudd- they get it (Unlike Bush, Berlusconi et al.). While, as politicians they may have to take into account "mob rule" sentiments (which on the left and the right can sometimes run in surprisingly similar directions) -they also bear a responsibility not to burn all our houses down to purge the community (the financial system in this instance) of repulsive elements.

Of what some on this thread might call vermin. Anyone who's ever had animals with bad fleas or had roach infestations, etc. knows very well the sentiment.

Sometimes, ya just want to burn the place.

Over time though -throughout history, the people whose leaders didn't lose perspective came out more or less alright.

We have at least in the Wset- an emerging set of Damn good world leaders. Barack Obama can walk anywhere- Gordon "longpockets" Brown has shown immense leadership in times of trouble- and Kevin Rudd speaks fluent Mandarin, -all the while showing anyone who cared to listen- that he's both a diplomat- thoughtful and bold- as well as someone understands his country's needs.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #95
115. Your post is nothing more than an 'Appeal to Authority'--one of the basic logical fallacies.
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 07:19 AM by Romulox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

"Smart individuals- or smart lawyers or businesspeople, have either been taught or have learned to recognize when they're confronted with issues like that, and knowing that they're out of their depth- won't go Palinesque, but instead will look to credible specialists for advise."

:eyes:

In the meantime, banks are paying out billions of taxpayer monies as "dividends".

U.S. banks getting more than $163 billion from the Treasury Department for new lending are on pace to pay more than half of that sum to their shareholders, with government permission, over the next three years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
63. So they practically bankrupted our country to line their own pocketbooks?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. it would seem so. and i'm shocked such a thing could happen!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
68. "Thank god it passed!"
:rofl:

Well, we tried to tell the supporters who were suckered by the lie that this was necessary, but like so many other times they either ignored or attacked us for telling them the truth.

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #68
96. You just don't understand the complexities.
Sincerely,

Hank
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #96
102. HAHAHAHA!!!
Thanks for the laugh. : )

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #96
106. hahahahaha
:rofl:

Which is the same line I saw all over the place, including here. Cheerleaders always reached for guru status while it's just the usual bait and switch. Trust your old time BFEE experts, eh? Still got some fine ones at DU despite the noise.
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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
71. gogo capitalism!
Fucking idiots. People are out for themselves, and their own businesses. That's why the free market does not work when it's allowed to operate without any restraints. These assholes are only worried about the bottom line, and doing what it takes to make more and more profits each year. And that type of action doesn't "trickle down" and benefit us, since the lowly workers are usually the ones who get their hours cut, or their benefits reduced, in order to keep striving for greater and greater profit.

On the bright side, if things keep going the way they are, future generations will speak with spite when they talk about capitalism, the same way the Republicans bozos do today when they talk about socialism or communism.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
72. No..it's thanks fuckers.. now give us some more money.....
.. and by the way.. if you want the pot holes in your road fixed or you want 5 cents an hour raise.. that's SOCIALISM... NO CAN DO. When will DEMS learn?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
74. My cousin went to theATM machine at his bank and it was empty
that was this morning in Los Angeles.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
76. Despite a 'recession-proof business, perfect credit and an excellent business plan'
<all words we were told by lenders>, my wife and I are unable to get a small business loan to open our new office. nobody is lending nothing to anyone

How does one go about testifying before Congress?
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #76
104. Contact Dennis Kucinich
He is one of the FEW that represent the people's interests in Congress.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
77. What, did we expect them to actually call it a $700B Looting? nt
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
80. Corporate Dems and Republicans betrayed us again
When will we learn? Kucinich would have blocked that cock from screwing us, but not many others. When will we learn?
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
91. aren't our knees bleeding and sore now
when do we stop and kick these SOB's to the curb.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
92. Absolutely speechless.
Well, not quite. I composed a LTTE and sent it to all rags in my area, called and yelled at my rep (who *did* vote against it!), emailed him a link to the article. I feel like a Who, screaming at the top of my lungs and nobody hears.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
98. how can this be?
Edited on Wed Oct-29-08 09:37 PM by unkachuck
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."

....now, who's the idiot?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
105. When an Anerican bank receives a dollar from any source, it loans out that dollar up
to twenty times, often to an inner circle of people close to the Bank's owners.

The fact that banks have tightened the lines of credit to the average incomed person, while sitting on cash that our taxpayer monies allowed them to stockpile through the Catastrophic Bailout Bill, this fact comes as no surprise to the many who knew this Bailout Bill was a scam.

Obama's vote for it will come to haunt him in the first year of his Presidency when our nation expereinces an unheard of rise in hyper-inflarion.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
111. Regulation is key! They need to let me run that wall street world for 15min...
Just 15min...and they would either be on my side, kissing my ass; or doing the right thing believe it!!
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
112. i wish i could say i was surprised
i can say told ya so, (not to you personally or any one person) but whatever. it's sad. disgusting, and sad. but no surprise to many undoubtedly.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
114. We Paid Them to FIRE Us.
Does that make sense?

Why do the wealthy NEVER sacrifice?

WILL it take Guillotines to make them care?

We're all in this together. Except when we're not.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
116. I gave the bailout the benefit of the doubt and I feel like a fucking idiot today
I'm steamed about this. I know Obama laid out a lot of good reasons to support the bailout, but apparently none of the reasons he outlined have come to pass. Now, I trust Obama - but if this is how the bailout is going to work, then he needs to raise some hell about it. So do our Congressional Dems who were screaming to the top of their lungs about this thing.

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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
122. They Gave the Biggest Amount of Money, to the Worst Possible Place
They gave the money to a type of investment/broker institution, that has nothing to do with the types of lenders and brokers that made the mortgage deals with foreclosed-on people, nothing to do with the holders of credit card or student loan debt--the main source of the crisis of crushing personal debt--nothing to do with medical debt or anything else, and yet this was supposed to "solve" something. The operator of the scam, Paulsen, who has made billions of dollars on specific investment deals, would decide which corporations survive, and on what terms, and which would collapse, and--surprise!--chose on the basis of connections and ties, and on letting hated competitors die. The terms given to the investors that Paulsen bailed out, have been called higly suspicious and possibly criminal by Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

Most shocking, a few days ago, Sen. Bernie Sanders revealed that the money will go to CEO and other executive bonuses after all, and tried to get this prick Paulsen to block it--Paulsen did not. Sanders revealed that $71 billion has already been budgeted by the corporations that will get the bailout--all to bonuses! All the asshole "know-it-alls" on the media, on DU, Obama getting people in Congress to change their votes and vote for this--telling us this would "solve" something...How can an "economy" recover, when all the attention is being given to individual corporations, and the middle class and poor of the world, sink further into a spreading, deepening recession?
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
124. And don't forget which
Democratic Senators voted for this Bailout.

WASF!!!!
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
125. I knew the bailout was a total swindle/scam/ripoff right from the get go. nt
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
127. the shareholders, high priced employees, directors promise not to spend it in one place...overseas
forget lending it -- bank people come first
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
128. never believed them for a second...
remember when the pleaded with that life and death quality that the world would cave in on itself if we didn't give them the money. but then it went to the house then the the senate then back to the house and yet during this time, nothing fell apart, nothing came unglued, the US dollar didn't drop through the floor nor did inflations sky rocket.

now weeks down the road from this bullshit give-a-way, and much of the money has yet to even be dolled out, has everything come to a screeching halt? nope.

we have been had. :)

hope you like your ketchup soup extra thin...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 03:27 PM
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129. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
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