Things are beginning to spin out of control for the G-7 Group....

[Blackhatjack]

... the reported losses are adding up faster than they can 'move' capital around to counter them.

It appears that the Asian and European Markets are tanking at rates way beyond explanation, and reports are that that sellers are getting as little as 15-30 cents on the dollar. There just are not any buyers.

Huge amounts of capital have been injected over the past 3-4 weeks, and yet there is no lending going on --which means there is hoarding of cash going on, and likely there won't be any 'scooping up of assets for pennies on the dollar' until the entire capital price structure collapses.

What is the trigger that will bring buyers back into the pool?

So the G-7 meets tomorrow in Washington. What can they do to make a difference other than to state support for one another?

[DJ13]

1. This is beyond a concerted rate cut doing any good

Next they will have to do a simultaneous nationalization of the banking system.

Nothing is written in stone that the banking systems need to be for profit corporate entities.

Thats the only thing left that can prevent a worldwide calamity.

[BeFree]

2. So, you have to ask...

...who has the money? Well, the answer is who just got 700B?

They drive the markets to the bottom and then they start buying. Any day now. That is if their greed doesn't drive them to wait even longer.

Say, what happened to all those characters hanging around here last week arguing that the bailout had to happen NOW! Where'd they go?

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. Nobody got $700 billion

$700 billion has been authorized for the purchase of particular assets under numerous restrictive conditions. I hope you don't think that $700 billion was actually divided up and disbursed between any parties?

[BeFree]

6. Geez

You still have faith and trust in them after what they tried to get away with at the start? Its all politics and the last 8 years should tell you something.

Look, they hand it to so and so to supposedly pay a debt or whatever. Then so and so uses that cash to buy stocks at rock bottom, hold for a few days and sell for a tidy profit. That means the rock bottom has to hit first... any day now. Then transfer the funds into what looks good to congress or whoever is overseeing that 700B. That's when politics plays its dirty game.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. What part of they have not disbursed any funds are you missing?

And right now it looks more like they will BUY into the banks, aka NATIONALIZE the banks

At least this is not as bad as it was loaded into C-5s and taken to the Caymans

[BeFree]

10. It looks like

There you go again. Telling me it looks like this or that. Well, bullshit. You can't see any better than I. In fact, the fact that you trust them at all tells me you can't see shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. What part of trust has little to do with KNOWING how this works are you missing?

I know, if they... whoever it is they are... proposes nationalizing banks, it has to be automatically bad.

Because it is THEY....

reality is that THEY have lost all effective power by now... and they did not plan on this crisis... whoever they are

Now I think we are done... I like to live in reality... not in some paranoia induced fantasy... and trust me... if they wanted to actually steal that money... there are easier ways than crashing the economy

Pick a book... a history book... or a macro economics books and crack it open.

[BeFree]

12. They stole the money

700B to do as they please. Easy as they please. Don't tell me you supported the bailout. Cause if you did that makes you an idiot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Well, I am an idiot, with a clue

you can never go wrong betting on the anti intellectualism of the American People

[BeFree]

16. You are the anti-intellectual

Telling me you KNOW what they are gonna do with the 700B. You support the very people who have driven this economy into the ground. You are exposed!

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Crack a book .... exposed my ass

On the bright side you read like the average man on the street circa 1932... who was opposed to the New Deal as well, the first new deal... the first emergency legislation

And if you think I support these people okie dokie, if that makes you happy go fer it

After all I am the one trying to get that New Deal Legislation back in books... that is how much an ally of those who rule over you I am

That even includes strong labor

[BeFree]

21. Look

Those that came thru the '32 crash with cash are the forefathers of those who crashed it this time. They played it again and this time not with an FDR at the helm but with a Prescott. And here you are defending them, acting like a know it all. Shameful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I am not defending them, that is your imagination

but I also understand that the bill all of you hate has an expansion of the HOPE program, use the google

And elements of VERY EARLY ... as in VERY EARLY new Deal legislation... I actually took the time to read it, in every iteration. Even sent commentaries to the proper committees and liked the one on Monday a little and the one on Friday even less... and NOBODY promised this was the only solution or the end of all. But the way things work in guv'ment if anything this is so big they cannot wait the three weeks... they gave in time. line, which is fast by DC standards.

I just happen to get it how guv'ment works and have been watching way too much sausage making in the recent past.

The next six months you will see re-regulation like you haven't seen in your life... and much of it will be emergency legislation... ESPECIALLY after Obama takes over... like oh... FDR

The country is taking a LURCH to the left.. and hard. Of course the Murican left is right of center everywhere else, but that is another story

There is more, as I told you in the other thread... there are already investigations under the authority of this bill

You'd know that if you read the damn thing... I also expect, LIKE 1929 to see that authority expanded

Now should Prescott have been tried for treason in 1933 absolutely, that was FDR's mistake.He was no saint and he made OTHER mistakes... but that one we are still paying for.

On the bright side, the US Empire is done for... so is globalization...

Now I truly suggest you find yourself a GOOD history of the Great Depression and read some of the laws of the period... we need to modernize those six major packages... and thankfully Obama is sounding like FDR more and more, even if he is not using the actual terms, like oh WPA.

Now some folks don't want to realize this... but when all was said and done the Depression ran 1T... in today's dollars that is about 12 T

[BeFree]

28. You are being evasive

Bush/Prescott engineered both messes and Bush presides over this "fix", not FDR. That is today's dif. And what you are doing here, now, is supporting this "fix" even going so far as to tell me what the crooks are gonna do with the 700B. That is bullshit and you know it. They are free to do whatever they please, damn the congress, just as they have done for years now. But here you are trying to sell us on the idea that they are gonna do the right thing. Bullshit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Presscot Bush had NOTHING to do with the 1929

crash...

He had a little (lot) to do with an attempted coup

And if you want to believe they are free to do what they want, that is your prerogative... and I guess you will continue to fight any and all emergency legislation even if it directly benefits you... cough wpa cough

And I do highly recommend you pick up a history book... if you told me the House of Morgan had a little to do with the 1929 crash yep, you'd be correct

[BeFree]

34. Just stop and think

If you are honest you will. Your selling of bushco is really quite revealing unless it is an honest mistake, but you don't seem to be very honest.

And the Morgans just bought up which big company at a fire sale?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Think, just think... Bush, aka grand dad

was a small time banker... not that influential, but only WAY AFTER THE CRASH after the system started to recover

As I said... if you said house of morgan... yep, you'd be right, 1907

But the bushes were not involved, and nobody in NYC would give them the time of day.

Now if you want to believe that... fine by me

I think we are done... truly done

I like to live in the real world, and not in a place were the illuminati control all

[BeFree]

45. Point is...

.... in 29 the rich got richer off the crash. They bought up stocks at the bottom. Then FDR railed against the rich who almost destroyed America and if you were honest that would be your position today. But here you are trying to sell me on the idea that we should trust bushco, now. That's where you are now being quite full of it.

[Hannah Bell]

67. "small-time banker" = my local banker. Great-grandpa Samuel Bush (Prescott's dad) worked for

the Rockefellers.

Prescott went to elite schools, in 1924 VP of W.A. Harriman & Co., major Wall Street: "WA Harriman, son of son of railroad baron Edward Henry Harriman and Mary Williamson Averell, and brother of E. Roland Harriman. Harriman was a close friend of Hall Roosevelt (brother of Eleanor Roosevelt)"


1931 merger with Brown Bros. & Co., old blue chip: "James Brown's son, John Crosby Brown (1838—1909), would be a driving force for growth, making Wall Street in New York the center for operations and seeing the bank become major lenders to the textile, commodities, and transportation industries."


"Harriman's main properties included: Brown Brothers & Harriman & Co; Union Pacific Railroad; Merchant Shipping Corporation; and various venture capital investments including the Polaroid Corporation. Harriman's associated properties included: the Southern Pacific Railroad (including the Central Pacific Railroad), Illinois Central Railroad; Wells Fargo & Co.; the Pacific Mail Steamship Co.; American Shipping & Commerce (HAPAG), the American Hawaiian Steamship Co., United American Lines; the Guarantee Trust Company and the Union Banking Corporation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averell_Harriman


And yes, Bush was reputedly involved in the Morgan coup.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. He was involved in the coup. with ford and others

but he did NOT cause the 1929 crash... and that was the point.

and he WAS a small time banker... and nobody, until the coup, would give him the time of day in Wall Street.

Have a good life... into the ignore you go

[Hannah Bell]

78. Sam Bush ran Buckeye Castings for the Rockefellers, starting 1901,

long before the Depression. Prescott & Walker = partners of the Harrimans, major Wall Street players, again, long before the Depression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckeye_Steel_Castings

Not "small-time."

The other poster's main point is correct: these (including Bush, Paulson, Cox, etc.) are the people who pumped the bubble, who enabled the fraud. Why would anyone vote to give them more money?

Ignore me if you like, I'll keep commenting on your support for the bailout.

[Hannah Bell]

5. some of them are right here on this thread.

[BeFree]

8. Yep

Just like clock work.

Hannah, while I haven't always agreed with you, you are a font of wisdom, in my book.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. What the people who have an EDUCATION and actually understand how

this works?

You are welcome to your tinfoil... should INVEST in some... the value will just rise... :sarcasm:

You can never go wrong betting on the general stupidity of the American people... famous person

Will add, you can never go wrong in betting in the anti intellectualism of the American people... me

[BeFree]

15. OMG

You are one of them! One of them that supported the bailout/theft! And here I thought you were wise. Look how wrong one can be. I'll not be fooled again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. You are right I have an education

you sound like the man on the street in 1932

Crack a book, find out why

By the way... do you care to tell me why I want that CREDIT unstock?

Do you even understand why?

Oh I forgot, this is a grand conspiracy.

There are real conspiracies, but this is not one of them

[BeFree]

23. Not a conspiracy?

Everything for the past 30 years has been a conspiracy meant to steal power. And you can't see it? And here you are defending them. It makes me wonder just who the fuck I'm dealing with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. No the banking collapse is not a conspiracy

now what do you want to know about Iran Contra, which WAS a conspiracy

[BeFree]

30. Lets see

Glass/Steagall was repealed 10 years ago and here we are. No conspiracy? What planet are you on?

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. That is religious belief... not a conspiracy

for right wingers regulation is bad.... like the father, the son and the holy spirit

You can tell the difference right?

[BeFree]

39. Bullshit

I am not arguing against regulation. You are going off the deep end just like republicans. Why am I not surprised?

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. What that deregulation is a religion to the righties

That is bullshit?

Ok... if you say so.

[BeFree]

48. You're getting desperate

I haven't said a damn thing about being against regulation. You're making shit up. Its bullshit.

[Hannah Bell]

79. And look at who did that: the very banks currently freezing credit & telling us they need our $:

According to this timeline, it was big banks who lobbied for loosening of restrictions - in particular, Citicorp, J.P. Morgan, Chase Manhattan (now JPMorgan Chase) and
Bankers Trust (now merged with Deutsche Bank).

And it was the Fed, mostly under the tenure of Alan Greenspan, who
loosened them, making the final 1999 Congressional vote more or less
the acknowledgement of a fait accompli:

"http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weill/demis
e.html"

[PurityOfEssence]

80. So right

It's like the end of "Cat's Cradle": Ice-9 has frozen the world. If anybody "wanted" something like this, they CERTAINLY didn't want it to get to this point. Something monstrous and out of control like this should make us all feel sober and humble, and those who strut and fret with certainty of how it all spasms out from here is in the throes of delusion. A simple glance at the experts' faces show the unanimity of the distress and confusion. The more honorable ones admit their fear or lack of understanding.

People thought they could play an endless game of three-card monte, but didn't stop to think how interdependent we all are now. They created a lot of crap, passed it off after taking their cut, and didn't think it'd ever come back to haunt them.

It's like the free-traders who can't seem to grasp that the act of outsourcing destroys the buying power of the poor schlubs left behind, and that this inevitably saps the life out of the economy. People have built grand castles in the clouds, but the sun has come out, the skies are clear, and the castles are crashing to the ground.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. End of Cat's Cradle, been a while since I listened to that song

and so apropo

defines this perfectly well

[endthewar]

29. They haven't spent money for the rescue plan yet

In a 30 minute press briefing covered by CSPAN today, Paulson said that he expected it to take several weeks to get the program up and running.

[BeFree]

33. Yep

In the meantime they crash the markets so they can go in and buy at the bottom... in a couple of weeks.

Lets see, they knew about this for months now and yet they need a little more time? They are up to no good and anybody covering for them is just as bad, only smaller.

[endthewar]

36. The two points are separate

The bailout is not aimed at solving the market drops right now. Paulson has said that at most he can spend $50 billion per month once the program is up and running. The intended purpose of the program is to prevent a huge economic depression next year and hope that it only becomes a recession. Just do the math: $700 billion at $50 billion per month will take 14 months to complete. It's part of a longer term strategy.

This in no way defends the bailout program, just points out that the bailout has even began yet so it should be analyzed separately from the current drops in the market. :hi:

[BeFree]

42. reasonable...

...to a point. That point being that bushco is the one doing the buying and if you have any trust at all in bushco you go beyond being reasonable.

My point is that they are crashing the markets on purpose so they can buy up all the assets at fire sale prices, and I haven't heard one argument against that scenario.

[endthewar]

52. I disagree with your argument because

it implies that this is a manufactured crisis. Trust me, it's real and it's much worse than people actually realize. It's not really a stock market problem but a credit crisis. The LIBOR (the interest rate banks charge other banks to borrow money) has skyrocketed big time and now banks aren't lending to each other. You can expect another 500+ drop in the DOW tomorrow.

Just checked the DOW futures and it's already down by 262 points. A 500 point drop might be an underestimate. :scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Tried to explain this, but this was engineered... so I gave up

[endthewar]

59. Bush's fault

In the Gibson interview, Obama was asked what he would do differently than Bush. Obama mentioned that the rescue plan wasn't understood by most Americans and Bush's 2-minute "speeches" weren't doing much to help the American people understand. I agree with Obama that the onus is on Bush to talk to the American people to explain the situation and help calm their fears.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I fear it is too late for that

myth has replaced all.

The only reason I get it is I read the damn thing and didn't take somebody else's word for it

And Obama will have a half an hour commercial, I wonder if he will try that? Or explain how bad this is.

As is, after the election I hope we literally get fire side chats... to explain each program

Yet another parallel to the depression... Hoover never explained a thing... beyond the fundamentals are strong

Where exactly did i get into the time tunnel?

[BeFree]

66. Oh it's real alright

And planned. It may be a bit out of hand but what do they care? Bushco will not be harmed, they'll be even richer on the other side. The rich get richer because they take their wealth from others. In this case the wealth of the stock market.

And now, bushco, having "borrowed" 700B from the treasury is well placed to buy up stocks now at the bottom. Sell high and buy low. To get it this low the banks needed to get tight with their money. Done.

Induced panic. Done. Its all fallen into place and bushco is gonna get even richer in the days ahead. Don't you think?

[Hannah Bell]

71. Who determines the LIBOR? Hint: the same small circle of banks who pushed for deregulation,

the same banks whose man at the Fed defanged Glass-Steagall, the same banks with most of the derivatives on their books.

It's a circle jerk. They set the conditions, they pumped it, & now they're freezing credit to bankrupt smaller players & take their assets. Then they merge & e-merge bigger & stronger.


4. What's the LIBOR?

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/libor.asp .

"An interest rate at which banks can borrow funds...from other banks
in the London interbank market...derived from a filtered average of
the world's most creditworthy banks' interbank deposit rates for
larger loans with maturities between overnight and one full year.
The LIBOR is the world's most widely used benchmark for short-term
interest rates. It's important because it is the rate at which the
world's most preferred borrowers are able to borrow money..."

So, supposedly the LIBOR is rising & credit freezing up, banks won't
lend to each other, & thus the economy - including your paycheck -
is also endangered.

"http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?
pid=20601082&sid=aBxs213UjqjA&refer=canada"

Thus the supposed need for a bailout. But...


5. Who sets the LIBOR, again?

"a filtered average of the world's most creditworthy banks"

Well, which banks? These:

"http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?
pid=20601082&sid=aBxs213UjqjA&refer=canada"

Notice some of the names: JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America & Citi, as
well as other leading players in derivatives like HSBC. These are
the "most credit-worthy" banks?

No, they're the BIGGEST international banks. Not necessarily the
same thing. But because they have rate-setting power, they have the
power to affect the fate of everyone else.

So this is why the frantic pleas from posters, politicians,
pundits: "Credit is freezing up! We need a bailout to save the
economy, pronto!" But everything goes back to the same group of banksters.

If they wanted to unfreeze credit - they'd unfreeze it.

[Hannah Bell]

76. Why is the credit "stuck"? Because a small number of big international banks set the rates

& won't lend.

BUT THEY'RE THE ONES holding most of the bad assets.

[Hannah Bell]

69. one of the loudest.

[Hannah Bell]

73. and so quick to call people who disagree with her "ignorant," she is.

[Floyd B Olson]

54. the big boys are not driven by greed

Right now they are driven by fear. It takes a while to unwind a large position, they will continue to sell.

[Kaleko]

65. That's exactly right.

The so-called big boys have lost billions in virtual money that used to be translatable into real purchasing power, political power and personal prestige. This is a crisis of confidence on a global scale. Heck, I've turned all our assets into cash months ago, and I'm sitting on it until the smoke clears. Just like everyone else, I'm neither buying nor borrowing nor lending.

For those who don't understand it yet, this is the credit freeze in a nutshell: commerce is coming to a standstill, and that is the mother of badness for everyone because the very structure of every society is breaking down when commerce comes to a standstill.

Oh, and welcome to DU! I see it's your first post.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. One thing they need to do

is to stop trading, period... to let the markets calm down

And nationalize banks... to unstick the credit freeze... the brits are on the way... and we may very well be on the way as well

That is just for starters

But we need bank holidays... across the world.

And of course officials need to get in there and start looking at books and try to untangle the derivative bomb... which is still ticking

That one... they may have to just "forgive it" which may be less damaging than trying to untangle it... but damaging nonetheless

[Waiting For Everyman]

14. Agree.

The have to admit that the derivatives are unpayable. Period. Then fix the underlying debt-notes by making the terms payable/possible. Write off the ones that still aren't. Then figure out who of the derivatives-holders can recoup how much once the turnaround gets started.

Meanwhile, they'll have to put the banks into receivership and sort it all out - in a relatively uniform or compatible way across all countries would be good. All of these phoney speculation games need to end now. They need to change the rules in a major way. Speculation is not investment. Money made that way is a big fat middleman in the system which does nothing for it.

Do I expect that? No. They'll screw it up more, first.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. The first six months of the next administration will have a slew

of regulations

And I suspect there is a gentleman's agreement that once we have a winner... they will be an acting president... why today bush signed the EO for the transfer team... early yes.. but I don't think george is in charge anymore... not that I can prove it

[gopbuster]

20. I have seen talk of a World Currency Unit that is tied to all currency

tied to all world economies...the value is set on the average of all combined world currencies i.e. a basket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Currency_Unit

One off the wall thought of mine is to create it and maybe all derivative holders that are on the winning side right now could be paid in this newly created currency.

We still keep our dollar

Off the wall thought

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Actually not off the wall, the rumor is that this is early

Breton Woods, and any treaty and new standard like that will take three to five years to hammer out.

[gopbuster]

24. Yes ....I need to study up on Bretton Woods a little more

I see this is where "This created the unique situation whereby the United States Dollar became the "reserve currency" for the Nations who signed"

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. It replaced the sterling that was the reserve at the time

but completely lacking value due to WW II

So yes, I could see that... and I can also see this being fought tooth and nail

[Irish Girl]

43. Nadin what's your impression here?

What exactly is going down and what should we expect in the coming days / weeks?

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. We have quite a panic going on... and like any panic people are just selling

to get out.

Panics work themselves out... and I do hope we are near the bottom, but we went though one today.

On the very short term, I think the Feds are more than just considering using those 700B to nationalize the banks... they already gave hints of that, and they have the authority to do it... and they may have to just to get the commercial paper going (loans)

I'd keep my eye on unemployment figures (as cooked as they are... real numbers are higher), and the Interbank Lending Rate... as soon as the lending rate starts to go down and banks start lending to each other things will calm down, and why we will end up nationalizing banks

That said... we are far from the woods...

At this point I expect a bad recession... but if this keeps up for upwards of a month (The lending rate that is) I will revise this to a depression.

[Irish Girl]

35. Oh uh

Bretton Woods without the US Dollar will be a sobering wake up call to many Americans.

[endthewar]

38. I bet that OPEC will be off the US dollar within a year or two tops

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. That it will be

but this is the end of the American Empire, and american financial dominance that started in '45

So that is a logical conclusion

And many of our local DU'ers that see all through a conspiracy lens will have reason to see this as one, to a point, just as we replacing the Sterling could and was seen by many brits in the same way...

[Blackhatjack]

44. "the top 25 billionaires in Russia lost 60% of their wealth since May..."

... Just reported on the Bloomberg channel.

THe question here may not be who steps in to buy stocks, but rather who will be deemed the holders of debt obligations that are ultimately unpayable.

Essentially the same thing that happens in a bankruptcy situation in which there are insufficient assets to pay off all creditors, and the unsecured creditors are just SOL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. and the derivatives bomb is alive and well

yep

[Blackhatjack]

50. So who decides who gets paid and who is SOL when it comes to derivatives?

There really is no market value.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. that is the four quadrillion question.... (high estimate)

[Blackhatjack]

56. I saw a quoted value of $436 Trillion in derivatives... more than present money in circulation

So it is a given that they are unpayable.

But there is no central authority who can value them and decide who gets what.

And no one here is addressing the consequences we are facing: even a small downturn in agricultural production will mean millions die of starvation. Inflation/Deflation: which will it be and for whom?

The real pain has not even begun yet...

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. I am hopping a deep recession

but the pain will be bad in the US... worst in places with no safety nets

if we have a depression... the pain will be spread evenely

[Blackhatjack]

60. Not much difference between a 'deep recession' and a 'depression'

The Great Depression saw 24% unemployment. Is that the primary difference?

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. GNP contraction

the Reagan recession, which was deep, saw something like 6% contraction and 16% unemployment

The Depression saw over 10% contraction in GNP... and in reality there were two... mini depressions and then a great war

Not looking forwards to this, but if this is only a recession it will also be shorter

[Blackhatjack]

49. Bush/Republicans Literally Destroyed Our Country in 8 Short Years...

Granted they took the reins of regulation off, sold their souls for campaign contributions, graft, corruption, and those with incredible wealth before Bush took office got exactly what they wanted--even more incredible wealth.

They definitely broke it --and now it will be up to the next Democratic Administration and Congress to begin picking up the pieces and turning things around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Isn't that the pattern of modern US history

but this will be worst as they also destroyed our military and standing as a superpower... the last one... it's dead, but the body does not know it yet

Will be nice to remind them of this for the next 40 years they spend in the widlerness

[Blackhatjack]

58. "Lying with impunity" became their watchword... now the consequences kick in n/t

[Blackhatjack]

62. What is different this time is the rest of the world is down in the pit with the US...

Being interlinked with our economy has its own drawbacks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Back in Mexico we had a saying

The US gets a cold, everybody else gets pneumonia...

[lligrd]

68. The World Bought Into The USA

which accounts for their failure to stop the Bush madness. Now they are paying along with the USA and we are in unchartered territory. My guess is, if they can't stop the hemorrhaging quick, the global market is dead for a while as countries try to protect themselves.

[Blackhatjack]

72. True... but this WILL spark wars over scarce resources ....

When the lack of production affects who lives and dies wars become the expected outcome.

And once agricultural production idles down, it will take a while to bring it back up again.

[lligrd]

77. Very True And One Of The Saddest Aspects Of This

is our scaling down of agriculture production and the near complete annihilation of our manufacturing base.

[Hannah Bell]

82. resources aren't "scarce," except in the fraudsters zero-sum game.

[Blackhatjack]

70. There just was not enough assets to satisfy the greed of superwealthy entities and individuals ....

... so they got the 'shackles' of regulation removed, created their own fantasy financial instruments and began trading them in place of real money until ... they crashed the system.

Of course, dismantling the middle class was a necessary part of the plan.

[HEyHEY]

75. Dang, time to exploit poorer countries even more n/t