What is wrong with me. There were so many touching moments this evening

[peacetalksforall]

and I was thrilled that the hardline Hillary supporters were coming around. But, I'm depressed. Everyone I heard and listened to were DLC,except perhaps the former Republican and some civilians. I was devastated after I heard Bden talk hardline about Georgia and RUusia. It was sickening. Playing to Republicans, playing to Dick. I just can't take it. My pleasure was stolen. I guess I fear that I'm not going to have anyone who speaks for me who is on the in. We are too far away from peace and I don't see the two nominees as peace seekers.

Does anyone remember who it was who came to DU and wrote about all of us not being happy with what obama would be saying. What I've heard from all of them is not enough. I'm really afraid about perpetuating war. Is the only reaaly good thing I can say is that at least they're not lying - they are being up front about wars. How long does it take to find trust, then hang on to it?

Where was Al Gore and Jimmy Carter and Russ Feingold?

It's DLC all the way.

[Swede]

1. He was playing bad cop-good cop.

For those who question Barack's international cred.

[avaistheone1]

7. Let's hope that was all it was.

...Just some huffing and buffing.












































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Perhaps just some huffing and puffing.


















Just

[Frances]

2. I think several people were saying that Obama would

use diplomacy first. And I think he would be very effective at doing so.

If Obama did go to a new war, which is HIGHLY unlikely, he would wage war the way Clinton did in Kosovo.

Of course, Afghanistan is another matter. We are already there and Obama has said that we have a vested interest in defeating the people responsible for 9/11.

But Obama does not have the pro-colonial mindset of McCain. I think Obama is our best chance at minimizing war.

[The Traveler]

3. Cheer up

The best way to avoid war with the Russians is to be firm but subtle. Which is another way of saying draw a relatively hard line ... but one with some wiggle room for both sides. And I think the Obama/Biden approach does that and thereby provides a starting point for dialog regarding the matter. Given the amount of military hardware in that area now, dialog is a really good thing.

The Russians have ambitions ... don't doubt it. But those ambitions are fueled and given extra urgency by suspicions regarding America's true intentions. Given the actions of the Bush administration, the manner in which they conduct policy, etc., I regard suspicions of that sort as being only rational. And I assure you Russian intelligence analysts have digested every word every posted to the old PNAC web site ... which can only heighten their anxieties.

Presume Obama wins the election. If Obama appears weak to them, they will presume his movement in America will fail, in which case it is only reasonable to gain ground before another Empire builder like Bush takes over in America. But if Obama appears determined, prepared, and able to negotiate coolly, this situation can be defused and a prolonged "cold war" avoided. I am certain Obama realizes this, and is determined not to appear weak on this matter for that reason, as well as for reasons of domestic politics.

If McCain gets in, they may momentarily retreat but they will redouble their preparations. They will presume a power struggle between Russia and America is unavoidable. Given McCain's temperment, that struggle can escalate rapidly. Russian strategic doctrine demands deployment of tactical nuclear weapons to counter American conventional precision munitions. Think about it. We really need to avoid shooting at these folk if at all possible. I do not trust McCain to not screw that up.

The situation with Russia grows more perilous by the day, it seems. Another foreign policy disaster unforeseen by the Bushistas.

[Breeze54]

4. Then you didn't hear Leahy (D-VT) and Kucinich (D-OH) and all the rest?

Go to DNC Gallery 1 and have at it or go to

DU Political Video's or C-Span and watch all the speeches

you missed and... cheer up! :hug: The words you missed were said.

[Why Syzygy]

5. Does it thrill you at all

that we will be Bush-free in a few short months? My heart pounds with anticipation.

[beac]

6. Gore is speaking tomorrow in the 6 and 7pm group (Denver time)

:)

[Breeze54]

8. OMG! How did he get THAT slot?! Leahey was pushed to the rear with

a 5:30 PM time slot and Kucinich got the dreaded "around 6:30 PM" yesterday!1!11!!

I'm so depressed!! WAH!!! :sarcasm:

Not at you, beac; but this is directed at some DUers that think their REP should

be up there first... because they have a LOT of POWER!! :eyes:

Oh boy... that really irks me, can you tell? :P

[qwlauren35]

9. There aren't any easy answers.

Today was all about national security. And it needed to be, because it's a real issue.

You're also right that our candidates aren't talking about pulling out as we had hoped.

If your one issue was the war, then your choices aren't as good as they were looking a few months ago.

However, I've checked a bit into world opinion, and the world seems to think we have to take a certain level of responsibility for the mess we've made. I think we're going to have to prove to them that our plan includes taking this responsibility seriously.

There's a nice little graph in another post that suggests that we don't have a pantheon of progressive/liberal candidates to choose from. We just picked one who seemed to be as far left as we could go... which wasn't really that much.

So yes, it's going to hurt. I think you have to figure out if you agree with Obama on ANYTHING, and if so, do what you can to move forward.

It's also important to seek out and "grow" young progressive/liberal politicians who can eventually get to Capitol Hill. Find them, support them, FUND THEM. I learned 4 years ago that getting the political representation you need or want takes a helluva lot more than just voting.

[bananas]

10. The Political Compass graph?

Almost all the candidates were right-wing authoritarians.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

[Hardrada]

11. I think it is still about pleasing AIPAC but not saying so directly.

Cornerstone of "our" foreign policy, don't you know. Well. and the Dems want the oil too. They'll do a lot of the same imperialist stuff but just say "O sorry," a lot more often.

[tsuki]

12. I think that's what Wexler was sent to do. nt