GM's Bob Lutz--"Educated people on the coasts won't buy our cars"

[European Socialist]

I watched him on Charlie Rose last night talk about the new Chevy Volt plug in hybrid. You get the feeling GM still doesn't get it, although they are finally doing the right thing. They don't realize they are ten years late getting to this point.

[MonteLukast]

1. He's obviously never been to California, *coastal* capital of high gas prices.

Maybe there's so much private jet travel by the "educated" people he bothered to meet in CA (or any other coast), that he's lost a sense of who drives at all?

[EOTE]

2. 10 years late?

As far as I know, the Volt will be the first plug in hybrid available. And at a reasonable price too. Sounds to me like they're not all that behind.

[Occam Bandage]

3. Your shitty 8mpg pickups, chintzy Daewoo knockoff small cars, and behemoth SUVS? Of course not.

If you actually made decent cars, though, then those blue-state eggheads might consider buying them.

[jakefrep]

7. The problem is, GM DOES make decent cars

I think it's amusing that so many people judge their current products based on an experience with a 1978 Chevette.

[Occam Bandage]

8. dupe

[Occam Bandage]

9. ...or with their current models, considering that Chevy is third from last

in the latest ACSI consumer satisfaction index. Only Dodge and Jeep are worse.

(The top 5 marques, starting with the best, are Lexus, BMW, Honda, Toyota, and Cadillac. Only Cadillac is domestic. And is GM, but when we're talking the quality of American vehicles, we're not usually talking about Caddies.)

[AllentownJake]

12. If we are throwing out Cadillac we should probably exclude Lexus and BMW

Chevy really isn't competing with BMW and Lexus they are competing with Honda and Toyota.

[Occam Bandage]

20. Sure. Then Honda and Toyota are #s 1 and 2, and

Dodge, Jeep, Chevy, Kia, and Ford are still the five worst.

[JCMach1]

15. Exactly...

[Greyhound]

22. You work for GM?

My friend just bought a new Chevy McBox and it is loud, slow, ugly, and gets worse mileage than my 22 year old Japanese sports car.

ETA: she also paid almost $4K more than it's worth right now.

[jakefrep]

37. No, I don't (nt)

[JVS]

26. Reputation is a very important thing when trying to sell people items that cost over $15,000

If someone had a 1978 Chevette up to 1988 and then got a honda that has lasted up to now, they have very few reference points to make the comparison. They'll go with what they have confidence in. Reputation is everything and car companies pay heavily for fucking up.

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Slow learners, aren't they?

They'll never catch up as long as they insist on building stuff Americans don't want and can't afford to drive.

[hatrack]

5. Nice reverse psychology - "Only ignorant hayseeds buy our cars"

Lutz - it rhymes with "putz" for a reason.

[lonestarnot]

6. lol

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. I think their on-star commercials are weird promoting accident recovery

for their automobiles vs being able to avoid accidents and safety

[City Lights]

34. LOL! nt

[Ganja Ninja]

10. "Educated people on the coasts won't buy our cars"

Well it must be their fault not yours Bob.:nopity:

[madrchsod]

11. lutz is a dumb ass but....

gm makes some really good cars...unfortunately many are not sold in the usa

[old mark]

13. I just read something somewhere about Toyota vs the US

car makers - Toyota has been planning their hybrid cars for over 10 years, GM just got the idea recently.

I hope this works out better than the small cars Detroit made for the "oil crisis" in the late '70's. The cars they cobbled together for that event were pure junk, and helped to establish Japanese and Korean cars firmly in the US because US made cars were terrible.

Unfortunately, they seem to have retained nothing of that learning experience.

mark

[Brewman_Jax]

14. Maybe they should've listened 20+ years ago

when I got out of college, I was happily driving my new Toyota Celica. I found myself giving rides to some of friends that had to leave their new GM and Ford at the garage for various repairs. They were mad that the cars were spending as much time in the garage as on the streets. I don't see why GM and the others couldn't do the job properly back then. :shrug:

[JCMach1]

16. There is VERY little difference between a good GM car and a Toyota these days

10 years ago... Yes, there was a big difference

Sorry to mention it, but I have driven crappy Toyotas, BMW's, Mercedes, etc. in addition to American models. In fact, the only bad experience I had with GM was the legendary crap Chevette circa 1981. Buicks have been some of the best cars I have ever owned. I have NEVER owned a bad Ford.



Recent Toyota quality is not quite the same as 1985 to about 2002... just take a look at JD Power recently to understand this...

It always amazes me how BITTER Toyota lovers are... :) :sarcasm: intended in good fun

And yes, if the Volt delivers, it will kick ass.

Throw the American Union workers under the bus if you like. I don't intend to.

[EOTE]

19. Every make has had some crappy models.

Nowadays, you can pick up a Malibu for less coin than a Camry or Accord and have all the quality and reliability of the Japanese competition plus a better looking interior. Hell, you can even get a hybrid Malibu for the same price as the 4 cylinder competition and get better fuel economy too. You say that ten years ago there was a big difference, but I don't know if I would even concede that. I selected for my dad around that time a '97 Malibu and 130k miles later, it's been nothing but a trooper. Just regular maintenance plus some brake work and the car is still running strong. I had a friend who picked up a Mazda Protege around the same time and he's put in far more money towards repairs. All this is anecdotal, but all long term tests indicate that GM's quality improved greatly towards the late 90s and is now producing cars of equivalent quality to the Japanese competition for a good deal less dough.

[JCMach1]

28. My car in the states is a '98 Ford Taurus

my parents keep this for me. It has 40k and NEVER had a problem... EVER

Here I drive a Hyundai Terracan. Great economical 4x4 and no problems.

I have had two Mazdas with no problems.

In fact, the worst recent horror stories I have heard from friends were concerning VW's.

I also give the recovery test to cars. I see many more Toyotas on recovery trucks these days.

[mitchum]

40. That notorious Taurus transmission will go on you...

I was "lucky"; I inherited one that had 85k on it, when it reached 92k, it went...and time for a new transmission.
However, it's my understanding that the average death date for the Taurus transmission is around 65K.
Still a great car, though.

[spinbaby]

21. I had two Saturns in a row

Both L Series. Loved the car--it was comfortable, drove well, and was quite fuel efficient for a mid-sized sedan. But both had what I would consider to be serious problems while still in warranty--two transmissions went out, an oil pump left me stranded, the door locks went, a radiator leaked. I traded both in at around 65,000 miles because I didn't trust them anymore. I drive a Toyota now. It's been utterly reliable and I plan to keep it far longer than I kept the Saturns.

[Jack Rabbit]

17. That's because educated people have figured out what GM means

Gallons per Mile.

[crimsonblue]

23. The Volt is a hail mary being thrown when the team is down by 20.

Yeah, it will score some much needed points, but all it will do is delay the inevitable: bankruptcy and a forced sale to a Chinese Company (or a bailout by Congress). GM's problem isn't their cars, it's the fact that they have let their supply chain and infrastructure deteriorate to the point of near collapse. They waited too long to upgrade their factories, waited too long to deal with the impending pension crisis, waited too long to invest in new car technologies. The free market business model states that GM is doomed to failure, because they refused to modernize and place competent people in positions of power.

[Neshanic]

24. BobLutz: "I am a business man, so therefore I am smart, so smart my company is in the shitter.

[Uncle Joe]

25. I wouldn't put that in a an advertisement if I were them.

:shrug:

[guitar man]

27. So, then

sell them to the uneducated putzes in the rest of the country. No, wait.....corporate America slashed the hell out of the good paying jobs in all those places,didn't they? Sales numbers on new vehicles not so good in the rust belt these days, eh, Putz?

They have forgotten the lessons that Henry Ford tried so hard to teach about the benefits of having a well paid workforce in this country, now they're reaping the consequences.

[Iggo]

29. "People who know shit won't buy our shit."

That the one ya wanna go with, Bob?

[Trillo]

30. To reduce the cost of the Volt,

GM should consider not including the Internal Combustion Engine and generator as a less costly model alternative. Supposedly, the Volt will go 40 miles before a recharge. If they could figure out how to increase that to 80-100 (double the batteries? Too much weight?), and if the batteries can be charged quickly, like in 10 minutes or so, then electrical sub-stations (which are all over the place) may decide to open up Quick Charging stations to plug in for those commuters who need to drive farther, and of course, sell that electricity.

By not including the Internal Combustion Engine which drives the generator, the cost AND the complexity of the entire system is vastly simplified, and so is routine maintenance.

It seems to me that American car companies need a modern day "Volkswagon" that's cheap for the masses to buy and non-polluting. Similar in cost to Ford's Pinto when it was new (but it had an "explosion" issue in collisions due to the placement of the gas tanks). $40K for GM's Volt is not something minimum wage employees can even think about buying, and unfortunately, public transit still isn't up to the task in highly populated areas such as Southern California.

[Fumesucker]

31. There is only one battery chemistry capable of a 15 minute charge..

That's NiCd and they don't have the power density to drive a car very far.

NimH and the various Li chemistries have serious problems when you try to fast charge them. I've seen a couple of Li cells explode from too fast a charge or other improper charging.

[Trillo]

33. Sorry, I'm not a chemistry expert.

However, usually if something explodes, particularly electronics, first it gets "hot". Therein would seem a possible solution. Wick off the heat during charging.

[Fumesucker]

35. I've been playing with electric powered RC planes and cars for nearly fifteen years now..

And I am indeed an expert in the care and feeding of rechargeable batteries in very high powered applications.

There are a lot of very smart and expert people working on the problems of quick charging and it is still a very "iffy" affair, I don't think a practical solution is very close right now and I follow these things fairly closely.

Even your standard car battery will melt the heavy wires leading from it if one becomes shorted, I've seen that happen twice in my life. That battery is nothing compared to the cells required for an electric powered car.

Batteries in general don't much like to be charged or discharged quickly, it will greatly shorten their life and the exotic chemistry batteries are quite expensive, you can spend upward of $500 just for enough to power an electric assist bicycle to a range of 20 miles or so.

[Trillo]

36. That tends to cooincide with one of my prior lives as an automotive technician.

Even lead-acid batteries last longer when they're charged slowly instead of quickly. I believe capacitors (metal-air batteries) charge extremely quickly, and capacitors are a technology that's been in existence since the 1800s, so they probably can no longer be patented (though I'm sure there's corruption and or manipulation there as well)

Wicking off heat is done on all gasoline engines, and even some electronic components with "heat sinks" and fans, though I've never seen that on any battery design. Circulating a supercooled liquid or "expanding gas" (like an evaporator) through the batteries during charging would seem a "no brainer", IF heat precedes any explosion. It may not, and you didn't say.

40K is simply too much money for a car affordable by the masses in a civilization that now has severely polarized incomes.

The cost of nanoantennas (a fancy name for solar cells) is reported to be dropping. The paint on the car, or some other coating technology and device, also needs to be collecting energy all the time and feeding it to the batteries.

[ret5hd]

32. "If they could figure out how to increase that to 80-100 ..."

Here is what i see for the (relatively near) future:

I live 25 miles from work. A car that had a range of 40 miles would leave me stranded. But here is my idea: Parking meters. Every parking lot would look like a drive in theater, with a meter at every parking place. But instead of paying to park, you pay for recharging your batteries (at a price per Kw that the owner would make a profit from). Then i could drive to work, recharge while i'm working, drive home and recharge overnight.

After the idea was strongly entrenched, downtowns could become "electric vehicle only" areas, with "recharge meters" lining the streets instead of parking meters. Parking garages could supplement their power needs with solar/wind, increasing their profit margins.

[PVnRT]

38. A good idea, but that will take a massive infrastructure investment

That's a lot of power cable to bury and ground, lots of streets and ground to be ripped up, and if the power grid can't handle it, you have serious problems. Those obstacles can be overcome, but they are obstacles nonetheless.

[apnu]

39. Let's ask GM where the EV-1 went? (nt)