Karl Rove was "vacationing" in the Crimea last month!

[DailyGrind51]

Just where is the Crimea and was this a vacation of an opportunity to meet with separatists in the region, including envoys from Georgia, to fuel animosity towards Russia?

"The Crimea, on the Black Sea, is a famed tourist area, a peninsula that was part of the USSR. Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, the area, ancestral homeland of the Tatar people, has become an “autonomous republic” within Ukraine. This seems to be controversial, as some Ukrainians see the ”autonomous republic” status as the start of a separatist movement; others see it as a smoke screen for continued Russian interference in the peninsula, long a strategic naval asset.

Ukraine does not have an extradition treaty with the US, according to the Congressional Research Service, and ”Contempt of Congress” may not be a crime in the Crimea. At least we don’t have to worry about Mr. Rove obtaining undue influence over the Crimean president — there isn’t one. The Head of State of Crimea is the President of Ukraine (Viktor Yushchenko)."

http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/karl-in-the-crimea-rove-not-marx/

[treestar]

1. Why didn't he take his vacation in Amurka?!!

Instead he goes to Hawaii or like one of them furrin' places.

[C_U_L8R]

2. Karl must be a Kommie

[DailyGrind51]

5. My point exactly!

No one goes to the Crimea for fun, except for those who live in the region.

[panader0]

3. kpete just had a great thread about this

Meeting with Shaakavilli three days after Rice did.

[malaise]

8. So this entire mess with Russia is the 2008

election gimmick?

[girl gone mad]

21. Maybe Obama can go behind Bushs's back..

and negotiate a deal with Russia the way Reagan did with Iran in '80.

[DailyGrind51]

45. Exactly! The "war on terror" is no longer "selling"!

[bdamomma]

48. maybe trying to make mc insane look presidential

sorry karl, there is no chance in hell with that idea.

[AllieB]

4. Kind of an exotic vacation for a troll like Rove.

I bet the percentage of Americans who take Black Sea vacations-especially on the Ukraine side-is less than 1%.

[DailyGrind51]

7. I was one of them, back in 1990, and that was because I have "family"

in Poland.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. Effin' water rat . . . .

[dbonds]

9. He was planning the Georgia distraction with his PNAC allies in Georgia.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. If this was their "plan" then their plan is really fucking dumb. n/t

[dbonds]

11. Did you see that animatronic Bin Laden they pulled out before the last election.

Yes they are dumb, but there are lots of dumb people that fall for this stuff.

[DailyGrind51]

12. He leaves the government in Georgia "seduced and abandonned"

just to create the fear, which has always been the trump card of the neo-con right, prior to the election.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. Americacentric much?

Yes, it's all about the election. It's all a Rovian plot. Georgia and Russia have no politics of their own.

[treestar]

17. Sure they do, but the neocons look for where to take advantage

It has zero to do with the U.S., but look at the M$M, McWar and * getting on their high horses as if it is our business.

[DailyGrind51]

22. During WWII, the Germans exploited ethnic hatreds throughout Europe,

which is how they set them up for conquest. The Serbs still remember how Croatians joined the pro-Nazi Ustache to put them into camps. They did the same between the Czechs and the Slovaks.

Remember the plot of "A Fist Full Of Dollars"? Clint's "man with no name" came into a town with two rival families and played both ends, until he was "The Last Man Standing", a remake with Bruce Willis in the "no name" role.

[DailyGrind51]

19. And all they need is someone to light the match!

Remember when George H.W. got the Shias and Kurds all riled up about overthrowing Saddam and, when they did, did nothing to back them up?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. So you're saying that they actuall intended to make themselves look like fools? n/t

[DailyGrind51]

33. Listen to MSM talk up McCain's "security" credentials, since this shit hit!

They got just what they wanted, an excuse to remain in power and protect the neo-con agenda. How is THAT making them look like fools?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. Because they lost.

No more NATO expansion. Russians laughing at us. Can't back up our own rhetoric. McCain in particular looks like a fool.

McCain: We are all Georgains!

Saakashvili: WTF dude, help us then!

McCain: Umm... Ah... I didn't mean that in the literal sense.

The neoconservative agenda was to get Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. There is absolutely ZERO chance of that happening now. Any influence we had in that region just went down the toilet.

[DailyGrind51]

39. But that was never the point! This issue is dominating the MSM!

Rove never intended to "seal the deal", just stir up expectations.

Here is a related thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3789437


You are not seeing the big picture here.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

40. Why not stir up expectations...

...in some place where we're not gonna get our asses kicked and look like fools in the process? Surely they could find a place. But then again, if you're willing to view a long-standing political conflict between two countries purely in terms of the American election then there's no helping you anyway.

[DailyGrind51]

41. By "expectations" I mean coming to Georgia's assistance militarily.

We may advertise, but don't expect us to deliver!

[blogslut]

29. It is possible Rove was there to encourage the Georgians

...to attack Ossentia.

I am not suggesting that it was motivated by the presidential campaign. Personally, I think it's more about power plays and keeping the Russians from ruling Black Sea ports. Also, oil and money. It always boils down to oil and money. We are competing with Russia for oil contracts after all. Weakening them financially and demonizing them sure comes in handy.

Think Iraq, pre-Kuwait invasion in the late 80's-early 90's. We built Iraq them up and then let them fall flat on their faces. We swooped in and resultingly imposed sanctions that kept them from bargaining oil contracts. Sanctions that were about to be lifted just about the time we waged the new war against Iraq. Russia was already attempting to negotiate with Iraq for their oil after the end of those sanctions.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

31. Russia is not like Iraq.

Russia does not need or want our help. They are economically and militarily powerful in their own right. We couldn't impose sanctions on them if even if we wanted to. Russia has a security council veto, after all.

[blogslut]

43. That's not what I mean

I'm comparing Georgia to Iraq. I'm suggesting that we are inciting Russia via Georgia - in order to keep Russia occupied and looking bad.

[DailyGrind51]

35. Bill Press made the same point this morning!

[DailyGrind51]

26. It keeps them and their "security" issue in the news!

[barbtries]

13. do people vacation in the crimea?

if not, i'm suspicious. especially as it relates to this fuck.

[DailyGrind51]

14. Thank you! There are much better beaches much closer to home.

Even Turkey, if one has a thing for the Black Sea.

[babylonsister]

18. Well, he DID have to get out of town to avoid chatting with a

judicial panel. And he did go to Stockholm first. I wonder what that was about. And how are the beaches? :D

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3599169

[DailyGrind51]

20. The Crimea is not the first place you think of when you want to go to the beach.

The French or Spanish Riviera, Italy, Greece, but the Ukraine?

[babylonsister]

25. Don't forget Stockholm! nt

[DailyGrind51]

27. Not exactly a "sun and fun" spot either, unless you have a meeting about something first.

[On the Road]

46. I Was Wanting to Go to Varna, Bulgaria in April

although I doubt that Karl Rove has the same taste in vacation spots.

[DailyGrind51]

50. From what I learned from the Bulgarian nationals I met,

Bulgaria has some picturesque places, especially for those of Bulgarian heritage. Enjoy your trip!

"Bulgarian holidays and short breaks

On holiday in Bulgaria, on the south-eastern Balkan peninsula, you will discover this breathtaking country is one of Europe’s most naturally beautiful and diverse destinations, and a wonderful holiday destination. Bulgaria is characterized by soaring mountain scenery, long sun-drenched beaches and a warm, colourful culture, and hospitality that has remained unchanged for centuries, making a Bulgarian holiday a great choice for holidaymakers of all ages.

So whether you plan to let your hair down and be entertained in a modern seaside resort, perhaps on a Bulgarian family holiday; relax and soak up the sun on a secluded beach where time stands still, on a Bulgarian beach holiday; awaken your senses amongst breathtaking mountain slopes and lush green hills or take a journey of discovery through a land of tradition and great contrasts, you’ll find it all on holiday in Bulgaria.

Bulgaria is constantly striving to preserve its rich traditions and cultures, while opening up its treasures and wondrous works of nature to the visitor. Making a holiday to Bulgaria a good choice for those interested in history and culture. Few people realize that Bulgaria boasts the highest and largest unspoilt mountain ranges in south-east Europe, home to rich plant life and rare species of birds. So, for nature lovers, a Bulgarian holiday is ideal. "
http://www.airportdirecttravel.co.uk/live/Destinationinformation/Europeandestinations/Bulgaria/tabid/362/Default.aspx
:-)

[On the Road]

51. I Took a Train Through Bulgaria About Ten Years Ago

and have wanted to see more of the country. Very mountainous and picturesque.

I travel once a year with my daughter, who's going to college this month. She wanted to go to Prague. I agreed, but wanted to start somewhere further East and take a long train back. Actually considered the Ukraine briefly, but decided on Varna, which as a former Soviet-era resort seems to be a pretty strange place.

Unfortunately, the window on cheap tickets evaporated just as I was trying to make reservations, so that part of the trip didn't work.

[DailyGrind51]

52. I have been to both Prague and Kiev, when I had the money to travel.

The people of both places were very friendly. My ancestors came from Poland, and I have friends in both the Czech Republic and Finland. Most tourists seem to prefer Western Europe, but the East has a lot to offer, but I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I hope you are able to make the trip!

[chatnoir]

34. Be totally suspicious

Prob 80% of the vacationers in Crimea are from Ukraine and Russia, if not more. We honeymooned in Crimea (Mr chatnoir is Ukr) and the entire 7-10 days we were there we only encountered one non-Ukr/Rus couple, a young French couple.

Revolting to think that vile thing was there polluting the peninsula.

[seemslikeadream]

15. HOW TROPICAL

[Liberal In Texas]

23. And a caller on Hartman said that Cheney was in the Balkans.

(Although I couldn't find anything on it with a brief search.)

McCain jumped in with a prepared speech trying to look all presidential.

I think there was some behind the scenes scheme going on. The repubs would love getting us involved in a conflict just before the election.

[DailyGrind51]

24. Stir things up with Russia and create demand for more strategic weapons!

More contracts for Republican pals in the defense industry! The Russian Bear is "bullish" for the military-industrial complex!

[Virginia Dare]

32. It's a struggle for Georgian oil and pipelines..

this is the final plan going into action before the neocons leave power, assuming they do.

[DailyGrind51]

44. They are playing all the angles, pulling out all the stops, to remain in power!

Four more years of shredding documents from the previous eight.

[bdamomma]

49. and give those crazy americans more lies to start another

invasion by feeding us crap again. It is all a set up.

[cutlassmama]

28. #1 oil

#2 no election because of "martial law"

Rove is always behind everything...

[DailyGrind51]

37. Thank you!

They know their bogus "war on terror" isn't selling anymore, when people are losing their jobs, homes, and health insurance, so why not re-ignite the "Cold War"?

[jakem]

38. So Karl Rove is a murderous, communist, fascist, scum-sucking, war-mongering pedophile you say?

I did not know that.

;)

[DailyGrind51]

42. Is he a pedophile too!

Damn, I missed that one!;-)

[bdamomma]

47. Rove stirring the pot for the neo cons.

why isn't this thug in jail.

[Matariki]

53. He was a speaker at the 'Yalta European Strategy Conference'

whatever that is.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/07/hbc-90003273

search for 'Yalta European Strategy Conference' Rove for more info