We are NOT "taxed too much".. do the math..

[SoCalDem]

We are a one-paycheck couple..no kids at home..our bring home pay is a fixed amount, so it's rather easy to figure..

subtract take-home from gross, and everything else is "tax" or Fica or healthcare cost not paid by employer...


59,200 gross
53,546.32 take home (includes our share of 401-k deductions)

That works out to 5653.60 difference (inclues state & fed tax)

We got back $1500 at tax-time
leaves $4,153.60 divided by 12 months= $346.13 a month ..

I know people whose cable & cell phone bills total as much or more..

Add in the $1200.00 we got from Uncle Sam, and it works out to $246.13 a month......

....

What's at stake here, is the fact that as people get MORE, they don;t want to also PAY more in taxes.. it's just that simple..

It's what you have LEFT OVER that counts.. How many houses can one be in at any one time? How many cars can a person drive at the same time? How many pairs of shoes can one wear at the same time?

How much money is enough money?

For most of us "middlers", all we want is to be able to pay our bills, have a little extra to buy some feel-good trinkets, save a little, and most of us do NOT mind paying our air share.. It's the RICH ones who want to keep all THEY have, AND grab yours too..

They EXPECT the government to provide the infrastructure that allows them a stable place to do business. they want the cheapest workers they can find, so the can keep more, and yet the expect their workers, and the workers of their fellow "corporatists" to buy enough of their product, to keep their bottom line healthy..

They want us to be grateful to them for the opportunity to work for them, and yet the also want all of US to assume most, if not all, of the risks they take, and they expect all of us to pay for the "mistakes" they make. They scream and holler when they face the possibility of having to pay taxes on the profits they make..

Our paychecks are our "profit", and we pay taxes on them, ..They get paychecks AND profits, and don't want to pay taxes on EITHER..and they even write off OUR paychecks as a cost of doing business..(theirs included)..

[valerief]

1. Greed begets only one thing: more greed. nt

[Sanctified]

2. Where do you live because I want taxes like that.

Here in Oregon I think about 40% of my earnings are paid straight out in taxes before I even get to deposit a check in the bank. Then add in Property taxes and all the hidden taxes and it's quite a bit of money.

Now I can deal with paying my current taxes but if someone wants to increase them I say hell no, they need to start taxing the wealthy and get off the backs of the poor and middle class, it's pretty messed up that we have someone like Warren Buffet who is taxed about 15% with no loopholes while his secretary is taxed around 33%. Even he says it's jacked up that he pays so little while his secretary who needs the money is taxed so high.

[SoCalDem]

4. Southern CA..

:)

[Oregone]

14. How much was your sales tax?

Personally more than tax, we get killed by inflation from the last few years. Add on sales tax and it can make things uncomfortable.

[SoCalDem]

17. 7.75%

:(

[Oregone]

18. Well, add that in. For some reason I pay a lot more in taxes than you...

I make a tad more, have 5% 401K, one dependent, $7K mortgage deduction, a home office, etc. (and $1.2K property tax instead of sales tax in addition to this)

Its a straight 20% out of my paycheck, with no money back at the end of the year.

[SoCalDem]

19. We have 10% deducted for 401-k, matched to 4%

I don't know why ours works out this way, but we've never been audited, and I use Turbo Tax with no "funny deductions", so I'm not complaining :)

[lonestarnot]

20. And CA is in what shape again?

[Swamp Rat]

3. But there sure are a lot of corporate 'fees' ... which are not put back into our infrastructure.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. Who are all those assholes in your new pic, Swamp Rat? n/t

[Swamp Rat]

11. The people who control our economy.

[pointblank]

5. did you put a one or a zero?

[SoCalDem]

7. one or zero?

:shrug:

[ColbertWatcher]

6. I was told there'd be no math. n/t

[SoCalDem]

8. Pop Quiz

:evilgrin:

[baldguy]

9. Coke or Pepsi?

The correct answer: neither

http://www.jonessoda.com/

[baldguy]

12. Individuals are people; corporations are property.

A corporation is a tool used to accomplish a specific goal. Like a hammer.

The GOP wants hammers to have more rights than you.

[Monk06]

13. Did you know that Daffy Duck hates taxes or sharing of any kind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37CUN0ix7s&feature=related

[MorningGlow]

15. It's also the fact that most people do not understand how our country is set up

I just don't understand how so many people expect something for nothing. The deal is you pay some money into "the big pot", and the government gives you smooth roads, public schools, bridges that don't fall down (usually), etc. You know, that whole "government of the people, by the people, and for the people thing"? Yeah, that. How does this concept elude some folks? :banghead:

[Bill McBlueState]

32. that's exactly it

People spend thirty years subscribing to a rabid anti-tax ideology and voting for candidates who do the same, then they wonder why major urban interstate bridges collapse without warning.

[ileus]

16. what about these? Property,Real Estate,Petrol,Phone,Cell Phone,Food,Sales, ect...

I've always said my payroll taxes aren't shit compared to all the hidden taxes I we all pay on day to day items. Sure most of these items could be considered luxury items back in the 1800's

[1]

21. then pay some more. that is your right and privilege...

if you think you are not paying enough and not your fair share.

you will not be denied.


how much is enough that you should pay?

[newtothegame]

22. I guess I don't understand this argument...

I will out myself and admit that I'm much socially liberal than I am fiscally. However, I do advocate for a fair tax system in which everyone who can contribute and still maintain a reasonable standard of living contributes equally, that is, a fair share. And I think we're fairly close to that if the bush tax cuts can be repealed. While there are no doubt abuses in terms of tax cuts to the rich, aren't they paying something like 35% on their last dollars? I guess I don't understand the argument that they aren't paying taxes....the richest Americans, such as the millionaires you allude to, even with tax cuts, are paying 1000's of times more than your 4100 a year. Your argument that "What's at stake here, is the fact that as people get MORE, they don't want to also PAY more in taxes.. it's just that simple.." is pointless because the super-rich already ARE paying more. What else are you asking them to pay?

What I have a HUGE problem with is our taxes paying for the mistakes and evil deeds of HUGE CORPORATIONS; that's where the focus and drivers for change should be, not increasing the tax % of private citizens who's tax bills already have many more 0's than us peons.

Just my 2 cents.

PS No offense to your argument, I just disagree, "pointless" is a bit harsh for what I was actually trying to say :)

[Festivito]

23. Hmmm. Much higher I'd bet. Over 50%.

FIRST, I have to doubt your figures. FICA would be 4528.80, so you'd be saying you pay $1,100 in federal tax including your 401k, and that's what you got back. Sorry, doubtful.

BUT, you say so, so...

Your employer pays his half of your FICA so your 59.2 becomes 63.7. Add retirement 6%, Health $12,000, unemployment/life/disability 2% and you make 76.9K$.

You probably have a large deduction, I'll assume a house with mortgage of 150K, 7%, so you'd have paid 10.1 interest, Property tax 3K, Garbage and police 1.3, and 7.75% on the rest, 3K, leaving you 36K$.

36/76.9 is 47% not taxed, or 53% taxed.

Note this compares to Europe's (be afraid!..)socialist countries that charge (gasp!)50%.

Only their health, retirement, insurances, ... are TRANSPORTABLE. Yours are not and you pay MORE.

I think if your figures are rechecked and these things are added again you might find you, and I, pay between 75% AND 85% while getting less than those horrible awful evil godless ... socialist countries.

Jus say'n.

Oh, that incentive check you got is put on the country's credit card, so as a cash advance it might end up costing you more than twice what you got.

Good luck.

[SoCalDem]

24. I just did the simple math.. husband's gross salary

and our every-week-the-same paycheck..and added back in what we got from Uncle same and what we paid into the 401 k.. Everyone's deductions will be different..ours are not fancy,, just the house interest and some unreimbursed business expenses..


Turbo tax does the math :shrug:

[Festivito]

25. Then the tax rate comes to 59% or 61%.

Now assuming you make 69.9K$/y or 75K$ on your W-2. Probably the higher since you've already taken out 401K (say 4%). (Understand, that means that the company is really paying about $100K with benefits NOT COUNTING office upkeep, bean counters to write the checks, keeping books, and supervising.)

We pay a lot, really. Most goes to military and debt interest.

Consider, for every dollar you send in Republicans have set upon borrowing and extra quarter from you and your progeny's future earnings that will probably end up being paid back at four times the cost of today's borrowed amount. Such is the joy of compounded interest.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. you've left out an awful lot there

first...the Federal tax ALONE on $59K is about $11,000 (tax tables 2007) so there are some deductions that were taken that you don't talk about here. Then don't forget to throw in the "little" taxes which are really where you get eaten alive. Sales tax of around 7-10% depending on where you live. Property taxes...ad valorem (depending on where you live). Fees for everything you want to do...it is a mess. And then throw in FICA and it gets even worse...

Then it really gets fun when you think that your employer pays taxes for you...

I calculated not our taxes this year, but our 'payments' to the gov't...any time a nickel went to the gov't I put it in a spreadsheet. And it was phenomenal! Nearly 54% of our gross income went to SOMETHING for the gov't (before refunds).

I used to not worry about deductions...we only ever took the one on our home mortgage interest...but now, I deduct every cent I legally can...I don't bend the law...but I do use it!

sP

[dems_rightnow]

28. You're too high by double

On the Federal tax.

At a minimum, she and her husband get a $10,700 standard deduction, and $6,800 in exemptions. Leaving a "worst case" taxable of $41,700, and tax of $5,469.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. then perhaps mentioning AGI would have been better...

still...the taxes are tremendous for what is returned...

sP

[SoCalDem]

34. I looked at the GROSS per week.. times 52

and just subtracted the actual amount we get every week. times 52. everything else is "Tax", as far as we are concerned...It's money he earned, but we don't get to spend..

When we file our taxes, what we get back , I added to the "paycheck" figure.. I also estimated & added back in the amount WE put in the 401-k, because it would have been in the check otherwise...but did not count the employer's match..

Just a simple debit v credit math..
Income tax deductions are different for everyone..

I thought it was simple, but I guess not so much... :shrug:

[Vinca]

27. I had a heated discussion with a Republican about local taxes yesterday.

Everything has just been reassessed and this moron figures since his property's value has gone up 42%, his taxes will, too. So I attempted to explain that as long as all values are increased by a similar amount, the property tax you have to pay will remain essentially the same after it all shakes out. Then he muttered something about taxes should be going down. I pointed out that money doesn't come out of the sky on a flaming pie and the town has increased energy-related costs just like the rest of us. It's not like the secretary over at the town hall is raking in 6 figures. Meanwhile, this jerk, sitting in his idling, giant, brand new, SUV starts pimping nuclear power. At this point I felt my blood pressure heading to the danger zone and extricated myself. I hate paying taxes, too, but it is what it is. They're idiots.

[eilen]

29. In upstate NY

we pay the highest percentage of property value in our property taxes in the entire country. Add school taxes, add gas tax, add sales taxes of 8.25%, add all the infinite one time fees on anything you can imagine, add federal and state income taxes, nevermind the FICA. I have a 1,450 square foot home that might sell for $115,000 and pay over $3,000 in combined property and school taxes.

Meanwhile, our roads are shit, the local town police force just combined with the county sheriff dept., the states are allowing the power company to increase delivery fees up to 40% (don't forget the nasty little state surcharges on this bill, as well as the cable and telephone); the tolls on the thruway have increased, the inspection fees for my car have doubled as well as being required to pay a tire tax and the registration fees annually on my car. Gov. Patterson just found out the state has double the deficit he was initially told and is now cutting everything, hiring freeze is in effect, and there may be layoff orders coming from Albany which also means that previous commitments that the state made in regard to municipal school renovations (the most neglected buildings in our state) may not materialize. Oh, and I think they plan to sell us out to NYRI and wreck our state to power the wealthy in Walt Disney's Manhattan.

And then our local (suburban) school district has the iron nerve to propose a major tax raising capital improvement plan to renovate the football field in addition to some school building repairs that are only needing repair because the idiots never oversaw the job that was done before to make sure it was done right (maybe they were all on some kind of payoff scheme or something -- that is the only reason I could see for such grossly poor stewardship). We found out they lost about $250,000 --can't account for it-- apparently "misappropriated" and the board throws up their hands and says "don't blame us, it was an earlier administration, whine whine whine" These are the same morons who decided they would bus every student (no matter if they live next door) in an era of runaway gas prices. Mostly to cut off the neighborhood school concept that people love so they can spend more money "renovating" and consolidating middle schools (like they have with the highschool which is a total nightmare) and bus more kids from all over the district.

I pay more than enough, thank you. Oh, and my husband brings home a little over $40,000 per year--sometimes more, sometimes less; he often has to travel to find work as a union electrician. (and no, the health benefits are not as good as you think they are, but at least we have them).

[raccoon]

30. I resent paying taxes and there's no national health plan that covers ME,

and won't be for the next 7 years (Medicare).

Also I resent paying for dumbass imperial wars.

As someone else pointed out, there are all kinds of "hidden" taxes we pay every day.

[wvbygod]

31. Lucky you

Last year (rounded) as single no kids...

50,000 gross
15,000 fica,fed,state taxes
70,000 401k
5,000 medical
3,000 local, property taxes
+1,500 refunds, rebates
------
21,500 take home


Maybe this is normal or not but with gas at four bucks my shit is weak. It does not make
me sympathetic to any caribou that may have to calf an extra mile from where they did last year.

The rich are taxed too little, normal folks are taxed too much and the 7 out of 10
people I know milking the teat while I work 12 months leaves me no guilty feelings or lack of sleep.

And when I can finally retire, if still alive, the fuckers are going to tax the 401k
money if any of it is still there.