Government may be approaching Civil Armegeddon

[Tyler Durden]

Or, "Tyler's rant about the end of civil government, brought to you semi-annually by my changes in medication." (If that's what gets you through the night.)

People here and elsewhere who know me well have a handle on my base politics: I am a Democratic Socialist.

This is to say, I am a Socialist with underpinnings of Democratic process; a somewhat close example would be the parliamentary government of Canada, although I would go much, much farther than they do. This leaves me very conflicted at to the debacle the election has become at this point. Point being, do I see what I view as the impending failure and possible breakdown of the Democratic Party as a "Bad Thing" or a "Good Thing?" I'm now beginning to ask if the government can survive, PERIOD.

I have come to the conclusion that we are now at the beginning of the end. The Republican Party is on life support, and the Democratic Party is being driven at 75 MPH with an empty crankcase; it's a race to see if the Republicans will flat line before the Democrats blow their engine all over the track and I'm no longer certain that I care.

Back in 2004 there was a mantra that went "...there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats..." Well, if BOTH of them are lying through their teeth, then is there a difference? The Republican President continues his war that all now realize was and is illegal, the Democratic House fumbles along as a loose cannon Judiciary acts as an organ of the RNC, Impeachment (the only weapon of congress against the executive with real teeth) is "...off the table...", BOTH of the presumptive millionaire candidates change their positions on a daily, sometimes HOURLY basis, BOTH of them now show their true colors to be not black/white/other but GREEN as in MONEY...

The government, whether Republican or Democratic has become OF the rich BY the rich FOR the rich. We stagger toward the anniversary of the Russian Revolution of 1917 with innuendo of Military Preparation on bases for shortages in the general population in food, fuel: "The Army Takes Care Of Its Own," denial of the recession a terminal disease, and the multi-TRILLION dollar catastrophe of the Mortgage crisis looming, and WALL STREET recommending hoarding food and water. I have to take anti-anxiety pills just to SLEEP at night.

What's my point here? I haven't a fucking clue. I do know I am scrambling to get more food laid in, the well operational, the wind and auxiliary generators running, the greenhouses set up and planted, and the wood heating systems up before Winter. I am running scared.

[bryant69]

1. It's sad how plausible this is

Obama has been a big disappointment so far, and I didn't have all that high an opinion of him when he clinched the nomination - better than Clinton but not by much.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Tyler Durden]

2. Don't you feel like you're standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon?

Hoping and Praying that you're standing on ROCK, not SAND, but you can't seem to move?

BATMAN couldn't save us in my not so humble opinion.

[bryant69]

3. I don't know - Batman does have Superman on Speed Dial. n/t

[Tyler Durden]

4. we are like a cockroach in the toilet, waiting for the chain to be pulled.

[bryant69]

15. One nice thing though - they do provide a wide range of entertainment products to keep us distracted

until they pull that chain.

[Tyler Durden]

40. Now THAT is an image. n/t

[Missy Vixen]

5. Tyler, I'm with you

>Back in 2004 there was a mantra that went "...there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats..." Well, if BOTH of them are lying through their teeth, then is there a difference?<

First of all, I'm making the public announcement (yet again,) that I will vote for the Democratic nominee in November. At the same time, I find myself in a state of apathy about the whole thing. What exactly will be different? Barack Obama has already made it clear he serves his corporate taskmasters and NOT the starstruck that are voting for him. The economic stuff should scare the hell out of anyone that has an above room temperature IQ. Our elected officials (except for a notable few -- Dennis Kucinich and Chris Dodd come to mind,) have made it clear that they will overlook it all as long as they get the exact same powers. Maybe John Conyers will write another strongly worded letter when Bush pisses on the Constitution on live national TV.

We live in a rural area. We have a home heated with natural gas. It's going to cost us a fortune this winter. We're down to one car, perhaps permanently. We can feed ourselves, but now we're wondering how much we can possibly spare for the local food bank. There are plenty who are going to have to choose between heating their houses and eating this winter, and we're on the freaking West Coast. I'd be freaking if we lived in the East. We are wondering when the crime rate will spike and civil unrest will start due to those who are desperate to feed their kids and can't find work (or spend their entire paycheck at the gas pump).

Anyone who's not scared is NOT paying attention.
Julie

[Tyler Durden]

6. Take a look here:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100185844&navFlow=3&keyword=wood+burning+furnace&langId=-1&searchRedirect=wood+burning+furnace&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.catalog.beans.EndecaDataBean%405c388ce5&ddkey=Search

YES it's Home Depot, but it's one of the best wood furnaces going. AND it just jumped $400 in price.

They stopped carrying the Fireplace I bought at $191 so you're on your own for that.

We aren't even getting the gas hooked up.

[Missy Vixen]

7. For some unknown reason, they won't ship to WA

I'll find out why not.

There was a windstorm three years ago that knocked out power to Western Washington for almost a week. We survived. We'll have to shut the rooms we don't use, put plastic on the windows, etcetera, if it gets to that point. Mostly, though, I'm wondering about the added economic reverberations of NO holiday shopping season, which I think most people will be looking at. They can't afford to finance Christmas with plastic anymore, and retailers count on that revenue.

Julie

[Tyler Durden]

8. Try these guys:

http://www.usstove.com/products.php?cat=4

I got them to ship to Canada. It's a long sad story.

[Truth4Justice]

19. Well most people I know or see havent a clue about this situtation

[leftchick]

9. well said Tyler

I have a three year plan to move to a farm. It looks like that will be too late.

:(

[Tyler Durden]

12. We close on 2 acres this week.

I'll have the damned house ready in a couple of months, and the old house goes on the market immediately. We don't care if we just pay off the old mortgage: we are way above water with it.

Even I might be too late.

[fascisthunter]

32. can I live there...? I Swear, I'll Shut up, Work and Listen

[leftchick]

34. lol!

could you give my husband lessons?

:)

[fascisthunter]

35. heck... I can't give anyone lessons

I'm learning too

[MadrasT]

10. I feel your pain.

Sharply.

[dysfunctional press]

11. ummm...okay...good luck with that.

:eyes:

i've been finding that a "take it as it comes" attitude works A LOT better for me- WAY less stressful.

life is short- enjoy each minute as you live it- don't waste today's life worrying about what the future might bring with it...it'll get here regardless. deal with it when it does.

[Tyler Durden]

13. Got spouse/kids? I do.

Responsibilities like that tend to make one worry a bit.

If I was alone, I'd buy a $2000 acre in the middle of nowhere, sink a well/septic and plant a trailer.

I have more people than myself to worry about.

[dysfunctional press]

16. yep.

well- i'm married, but we chose not to have kids...especially once a previously un-diagnosed and very painful congenital spinal condition manifested itself when i was in my early 30's and rendered me totally/permanently disabled.
and now that i get to suck the government teat(that's how some people describe my hard-earned disability benefits), i could pretty much live anywhere. but a trailer on a $2000 acre in the middle of nowhere doesn't sound all that appealing. :shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

21. Sorry about the hardships.

It's too bad that we don't live in the society we all knew was possible, but will never happen thanks to the greedy.

If it makes any difference, I'm one of these people who strongly believe that it is one of the major roles of government to see that people like you are properly cared for, not just subsistence as you're probably putting up with.

[dysfunctional press]

61. thanks for that...what a different world it would be had Al Gore been allowed to hold the office...

that the people elected him to.

as to my own subsistence- as i've mentioned in previous threads on the topic, i was declared totally/permanently disabled at age 38, due to an auto-immune disorder(ankylosing spondylitis) that causes a painfully arthritic spinal condition among other things. my monthly disability check is based on the wages i made over a shortened 20-year working life. HOWEVER- because it turned out that a now bankrupt and long-gone construction company that i had worked for- for 2+ years over 25 years ago, had never paid into social security the fica money they had deducted from my check every week. because of this my monthly check is about 12% less than it should otherwise be.

and they wonder why i seem bitter sometimes...

[Xenocrates]

14. Running Scared? By the sound of it, you may be the most prepared.

And if you are prepared, you shall not fear.

[jus_the_facts]

17. I wish I could recommend this a thousand times....

...and hack the *greatest* page to exlude everything else on it BUT this. :hug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. ROFLMAO!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh how I just LOVE some good over the top irrational melodrama during lunchtime!!!

[Richard Steele]

22. You should really consider getting a new schtick.

nm

[Tyler Durden]

25. The ostriches among us insist we take them seriously.

He's just the kind of person I expect to find at my fence, confronted by the dogs, needing a handout in a year or two.

He'll likely get it too. I'm just a sucker that way.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. DOOMED!!!!!! WE'RE ALLLL DOOOOOOOOOOOMMMEDDD!!!!!!!1111

:rofl:

[Tyler Durden]

39. You know, you're outnumbered on this thread....

You're among the less than 1 out of 6 behaving like a schmuck.

What are you, bored?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Yup.

[Tyler Durden]

42. Fair enough. nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Hey, When The Posts Change Their Shtick, I'll Change Mine.

As long as my shtick is an accurate and direct reply to the nonsense I'm responding to, then I'm perfectly comfortable with it. :hi:

[Tyler Durden]

36. Accurate?

one-line hit jobs heavy with "smilies."

Shoot, you used to write better than this. What happened?

Also, show me ONE government that has lasted longer than 100 years in its original configuration without implosion then you can talk about my nonsense.

And I take it back. If things collapse, go panhandle somewhere else.

[AngryAmish]

60. Ming Dynasty

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_Dynasty>

1368 to 1644

[Tyler Durden]

69. Hardly think an autocratic monarchy qualifies.

How about the Romanovs? Almost 400 years there. When you have the "Mandate of Heaven" and your population is largely unarmed serfs, it sort of is outside of the equation, and when the crash happens, it's a HELL of a lot bigger.

[Richard Steele]

43. Anyone can look at the posts you've replied to over time and see that's simply not true.

nm

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. Go For It.

[Tyler Durden]

23. I wish you luck.

and I truly do hope it doesn't happen, but history seems to have a knack for doing this sort of thing on a regular basis.

Sure hope you're in one of those depression proof industries, for your sake.

[Deja Q]

24. Yours deserves a DUzy for the 'best realistic response' category.

Meanwhile, I'm going to get some duct tape and duck soup. :silly:

[Tyler Durden]

26. Another grasshopper to show up at the ant's place.

Likely won't get turned away either.

[fascisthunter]

33. actually, you should take the duct tape off your eyes and place it on your mouth

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

67. Hey, if you're amused then all the misery is worth it. Right?

[Tyler Durden]

70. One of the reasons Gated Communities are so popular with the rich.

If you don't have to smell the serfs, you can pretend they don't exist.

[AndyTiedye]

20. Still a Big Difference in Whom they Appoint to the Supreme Court

[Tyler Durden]

28. True.

With the assholes we have in congress now, if McCain got in they would likely approve a clone of Hitler.

On the other hand, I'm not very impressed with Obama's choices of advisers right about now either.

[librechik]

27. Mission Accomplished. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil;

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." Thomas Paine

I've long ago given up the notion that one government differs much from another except in the amount of damage they do.

The best we can hope for from politicians, of any kind, is that before they are thrown out of their positions of power they don't screw everything up despite their best efforts.

[Mudoria]

37. You said it best when you said

"I haven't a fucking clue".

[Tyler Durden]

38. You know, if some of you people see nonsense, perhaps you ought to post elsewhere.

seems you're outnumbered here.

[SidneyCarton]

44. Ok, things are bad, they may well be as bad as they've ever been.

Hard to tell as we're being lied to like mad right now. We will ride this mess out, much will not be as it was, but weaker nations than we have endured in the face of greater disasters, we will endure. And hopefully we will be the better for it.

[Tyler Durden]

47. NOTHING lasts forever.

No system has so far, and we have stretched this one almost to the limit.

All we need now is a good PUSH. Like a depression.

[SidneyCarton]

50. True, but life still goes on.

Rome fell, Europe endured, there were bright spots even in the "dark ages" Dynasties fell, China endured. The United States as we know it may not survive this mess, but we will endure in one form or another. Despair gains us nothing, prepare and live, the rest will work itself out.

[Tyler Durden]

52. I just hope the missiles fall out of repair.

Once they're broken, it will be unlikely that they can ever be used again.

[SidneyCarton]

53. Good point,

But if the Mushrooms sprout, most of us won't have to worry about things gettin worse, and there will only be a couple of months for 90% of the rest.

[Tyler Durden]

54. That's why I am where I am.

Nobody in their right mind would nuke Detroit anymore, and I live in the center of the state.

There are advantages to living in "The New Appallacia>"

[SidneyCarton]

56. Too close to the St. Lawrence Water Way...

Assuming the Russians have ever bothered to really retarget their missiles anyway. I half wonder if the old Reserve Air Base next to my home town is still targeted just to give them somewhere to be pointed at... Oh well, best of luck to you, best of luck to us all.

[Tyler Durden]

63. Lake Michigan on one side, Huron on the other.

no locks. since we have closed most of our industry, I don't think anyone would waste a missile on us.

[Greyhound]

72. Example please.

"weaker nations than we have endured in the face of greater disasters"

[EnviroBat]

46. Tyler, I agree with you...

I feel that things are broken beyond repair at this point, and soon the final nail will be hammered in to the cheap, pine box that will hold the last vestiges of our democratic society. I am curious about your feelings regarding self-defense, arming yourself, these kinds of issues. I myself recently purchased two guns, and have learned how to shoot, clean, and maintain them. I used to be a carefree guy, but after the joke that I see being paraded out before us in the form of the Republican nominee, I care. I lose sleep that this feeble moron is going to somehow occupy the Whitehouse. I believe we will truly see the end of society as we know it if that happens. I see younger couples in my own neighborhood having to put their homes on the market for far less than they paid for them. I see and feel the anxiety in people at the grocery store. I hear the drums beating just over the horizon, and I'm afraid that when the time comes, there won't be enough of us to rise up against the coming tide of fascism. When the complacent have nothing left, they will turn to the comfort of television, where ever they can find it, and hope desperately that it will tell them what to do.

[Tyler Durden]

48. Self defense?

I keep firearms, and everyone in my house knows how they work.

When someone shows up ASKING for help, they get it. If they show up DEMANDING submission, my family knows what to do.

We've been expecting this for years.

[EnviroBat]

49. I have a scary feeling that the "demanding submission" scenario

may become more commonplace as the shit is loaded in to the fan by the truckload...

[Tyler Durden]

51. the barricaides will go up...a new kind of "Gated Community."

This has happened so many times in history that I do not understand people that act as if they live in the "1000 year U.S."

Some other very nasty country claimed that title. It did not work out well.

[mnhtnbb]

59. My son and a friend were confronted by a guy with a sawed off shotgun

demanding their money in an alley between the main street of Chapel Hill, NC and a parking lot in BROAD DAYLIGHT two weeks ago.

The guy then went and held up a woman at a drive-in ATM 10 minutes later. He repeated the ATM crimes
several times in Raleigh, again in Chapel Hill, and in Durham in the next few days. He's since
been arrested and is sitting in jail.

Chapel Hill is where Eve Carson, the student body president of UNC- Chapel Hill, was abducted
from her house in the middle of the night, driven to an ATM to withdraw cash, and then murdered
last March.

The "demanding submission" scenario has arrived. It scares the shit out of me.

[Tyler Durden]

62. I signed up for CCW training.

I plan on carrying a .45 FIRESTAR semiauto with me at all times

[EnviroBat]

73. I found a nice little 40cal S&W.

Affordable and reliable. That and my Mossberg 500 12Ga. One would hope that would be sufficient...

[tnlefty]

55. Aren't a couple of Obama's economic advisors "Chicago Boys" as

in Milton Freidmanites? I think that I saw that here and just couldn't read it as I'd had enough bad news that day. I did mention it to a friend yesterday and his response was a long string of profanity.

I suppose those who mock the seriousness of the nation's condition must be somewhat insulated.

Around me plants are closing and moving to Mexico, China, etc., people are losing their jobs without replacements. The foreclosures listed in the paper keep going up. The local food bank is feeling the stress and the people who used to contribute to them are either using the service or can't contribute as much. Forget about a lot of shopping or dining out. I went to the grocery store today to pick up a few items and while the prices are steadily increasing, there were maybe 10 people in the store and the staff was cut back tremendously.

My spouse comes home everyday (and this has been going on for months) sullen and semi-depressed because of the increasing numbers of people on cut out lists and people sitting across from his desk in tears begging to keep their power turned on. The biggest reasons that people are struggling to pay their bills are loss of a job, sick relative, or trying to make the house payment.

All that I keep hearing is that the lost jobs aren't ever coming back so I'm not sure how this is going to improve anytime soon.

[tannybogus]

57. Close enough

Here's a link to a story by Naomi Klein - "Obama's Chicago Boys

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein

[tnlefty]

58. Thanks for the link!

I just found my print copy of the Nation (June 30th) and I think that I'm gonna go outside and read it.

Thanks again. :hi:

[NightWatcher]

64. Democratic Socialist or Socialist Anarchist???

I am thinking and feeling more and more like a Socialist Anarchist. Fuck the government, we'll care for our own without your control.

They dont trust us to rule ourselves, but claim to trust enough to pick people to rule over us all?
They dont trust us, they dont fear us, and they dont let us pick our representatives.

[Tyler Durden]

65. I'm still too much of a Socialist to be an Anarchist.

I don't trust the Government, but I don't think we can make it in a country of over 300,000,000 people without government.

[NightWatcher]

66. I think we can take care of our own better than the government can

the only effective form of government that has ever lasted is tribe-based. Humans will take care of their own if there is no profit motive to screw them.

[Greyhound]

71. K & R, every time this happens, and history is replete with examples of this scenario,

the sheeple claim to have "never seen this coming" and are taken completely by surprise.

We, each and every one of us, is inundated with all of the signals every day, yet the overwhelming majority, some on this very thread, steadfastly refuse to acknowledge what is right before their eyes. We/they ignore the desperate plight of our fellows, secure in the knowledge that it can never happen to them, and then rage with righteous indignation each time some "loser" goes ape-shit and flips out on the closest available target, when they are no longer able to see any hope of betterment. That is just how it plays out.

Listing all of the plainly visible catastrophes, never mind the unforeseen disasters that await, is pointless, those of us that are watching already know and the others will stubbornly ignore them until it is too late. The hard part, turning them away or worse, is yet to come.

My advice, passed down from me great-grandmother who lived through industrialization, electricity, flight, radio, more wars than should ever happen, The Great Depression, a man walking on the moon, etc. (1881 - 1985), enjoy these times, cherish them for the gifts they are, we are blessed/cursed to live during the end of empire. Know that the morons will invariably choose the worst possible path and turn a bad situation into a complete clusterfuck and there is nothing you can do to stop them. Hot showers, soft beds and clean sheets, excellent food and wine, the belief that you have not taken another life, pets that serve no purpose other than as objects of devotion, riding/driving at ridiculous speeds on smooth highways, flying, whatever it is that you enjoy that is dependent on the (barely) existing structure of excess that remain. These are the memories that will sustain you if/when it all collapses and will make great/inspirational stories to tell the young ones.

OTOH, maybe we are just crazy and it will all, somehow, work out.