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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:11 AM
Original message
Go Figure! (Conyers hearings question)
Edited on Wed Jul-16-08 10:21 AM by hootinholler
Do I have this right?

One of the major objections to impeachment is that it would create a media circus.

Conyers is going to hold hearings, not on impeachment, but to outline all the 'mis-steps' of the administration. The pundits will have a field day with that one. I can hear them asking, why have these silly hearings if not to impeach?

So, instead of an earnest attempt at impeachment, we are opting to create the feared media circus without the benefit of enforcing constitutional law?

Like I said, Go Figure!

-Hoot
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Conyers is muzzled... and he worries about his legacy...
Since he was one of the first to move to impeach Nixon he might not want to be seen as the first to Impeach Bush. He said in his meeting with Vets for Peace that he did want to "think about his legacy" when he was confronted with the fact that he'd been on the Committee to Impeach Nixon.

But, I think the Dems just don't want to mess with Bush/Cheney. So, yes...they are ignoring the Constitution.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. This congress' legacy is already trashed.
We don't know which ones knew about the torture, and the lies, and helped hide it... but we will one day.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Complicit Dems. We should call and harrangue them.
There is one article... focus would eliminate the 'circus' aspect.

The only reason to try to muddy the waters is to avoid their own culpability.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Exactly...
"The only reason to try to muddy the waters is to avoid their own culpability."
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I came to the conclusion, months ago, that complicity is the driving force behind the Dems caving in
and giving Bush every single friggin' thing he's asked for.

I can't imagine anything else that would compel them to disregard the will of the people and all rules of common decency.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I came to that conclusion years ago.
I don't believe they believed those lies.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. for the same reason that hearings were held on other questionable actions
like the plame leak and the US attorney firings. And the "media circus" on these non-impeachment hearings will be about equal to the media circus on those hearings. Characterizing a hearing as an impeachment hearing would create a different level of media interest, but that isn't what these hearings (assuming there is more than one) are supposed to be.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Those hearings weren't made into media circuses, by opening up the hearings
to all sorts of issues.

Bush's abuses of power... they could hold hearings on that for YEARS... no shortage of material to be discussed.

They should be calling it a hearing on the article of impeachment.

Sadly, too many complicit Dems...
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. Notice the quick response to Karl Rove's statement yesterday?


No, neither did I.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. What statement?
About the subpoena? Fournier?
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You know, yesterday, when Rove said he In LA that didn't have to go?
They issued no statement when he mocked them on TV and in interviews
yesterday in LA.






Karl Rove was subpoenaed on May 22, 2008... It is now July 16th
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yeah... but what can they say? They know he's right.
What other subpoenas have been just flat-out ignored?

But make no mistake... they are complicit, not spineless. That's why Rove can be as caustic and mocking as he likes, and fear no repurcussions... it's their own asses they are covering, not his.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. They act like they will be literally killed if they use the Constitution. It's unnatural.
I wonder how close to true that is.

Compare Conyers' weird, twisted posturing to the relish with which the republicans sought to impeach Clinton, out of revenge for Watergate. They harassed and investigated THAT president from the beginning of his term until the end. No namby pamby "gee I don't want people to think we are doing anything overzealous!" from that crowd.

Abject Democrats aren't allowed to use the weapons and defenses of the Constitution. That's only for the grown-ups, not the Children.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. Despite past heroics, Conyers is as complicit as the rest. Remember
Marshal Petain--the "hero of Verdun" in WWI, who presided over Vichy France in WWII? He's a pretty good parallel for the once-admirable Conyers.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. Complicit cowards. Truly disgusting :( n/t
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. The damn fool wants to AVOID a media circus?
That's exactly what's needed; a media feeding frenzy that shows up somewhere besides C-Span and may even penetrate the thick skulls and dense cerebral cortexes of Mr. and Mrs. American Chowder Head. I guarantee you these people do not spend their days glued to C-Span and parsing every little nuance or raised eyebrow for hidden meaning.

Much more likely to cheer as Jack Bauer puts another slug into the kneecap of some poor bastard who's accused of being a "terrorist" -- whatever the hell that means these days -- and who won't talk because he doesn't know anything. But Jack isn't about to take silence for an answer, so he decides to use some of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" John Yoo spent months legitimizing. It's not actually torture unless the subject dies, apparently, at which point it's not torture either because a corpse feels no pain. Voila! Torture is therefore impossible.

Of course corporate media will do its level best to defend the Bushies. Of course Fux will say bad things about Conyers. John, a tip for you: They're going to say bad things about you no matter what you do. Might as well give them something real to talk about.

And despite their laziness, incompetence and compulsory Bushie boot-licking, mass media will cover impeachment hearings. They'll spin their coverage in predictable directions, but the word "impeachment" will be featured prominently and frequently.

They're not going to cover another useless investigation that's designed to accomplish nothing of substance, assign no blame nor determine accountability, where no witnesses even bother to show up because subpoenas are useless without inherent contempt backing them up. Does that sound like a news-worthy event?

Because democrats remain absolutely ignorant of how to manipulate mass media to their benefit, or even how to create news themselves rather than waiting for the GOP to do something so they can react with feigned outrage, Conyers can make these childlike statements about the horrors of creating a media frenzy. He seems to think he lives in a country that values honor and decorum and dignity. However, he's actually living in America.

Does he think that in a country that invented American Idol and Dancing with the Stars; pays Limpballs $50 million a year to spew nazi scumbag hatred; invented greaseburgers; sees nothing wrong with being the world capitol of morbid obesity; deifies Russert and Helms; thinks B. Clinton is an ultra liberal; seems to actually care about what celebrities think; thinks St. Raygun was in full possession of his faculties; where more than 90 percent profess some sort of affiliation with an external deity; where Darwin is a dirty word; where patriotism is measured by magnetized ribbons decorating SUVs and little toxic made-in-China-by-slave-labor flag lapel pins ...

Does that sound like a country that's big on class and dignity? Then why does Conyers fear a media circus? This country lives for wretched excess that creates media circuses. TV has taught the vast majority that if it's not a media circus, it's not worth paying attention to.

John, if you're reading this, my rates are usurious but competitive and my results are, in all cases, far superior to the non-performing bullshit you're getting from the nitwits you've got posing as "strategic experts" now. If I were that useless and inept, I'd have had to give up this cushy consulting gig and get a real job 15 years ago.

Meanwhile, let the media circus roll and send in the clowns -- starting with Rove and working your way up to the rotting head.


wp
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. So much about this doesn't make sense until you start figuring out that
Pelosi and Conyers are somehow corrupted by the process, whether through blackmail, bribery or other behind the scenes handshake deals that we aren't privy too. It's up to us to keep up the pressure on them and not let them sweep this matter under the table.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yep... they are covering their own asses. It's not cowardice, it's complicity. (nt)
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Corrupted certainly...
But I don't care what they're hiding -- at least given the bigger picture and the overarching need to neutralize the Bushies NOW before they can do any more damage. Like nuking Iran. Like stepping up domestic surveillance. Like coming up with ever crazier shit, like those taser wrist bands for airline passengers.

What I do care about is the fact that they accepted their current positions knowing that their histories would compromise them.

They should have fabricated some half-credible reason to politely refuse those jobs. I hear claims of ill-health or wanting to spend more time with their families work pretty well for GOP pedophiles, diaper boys and bathroom stall dancers. They should have made it impossible for their past felonies -- whatever the hell they did to make themselves so easily tamed -- by taking themselves out of the decision-making loop.

The latest Rasmussen poll says Congress is despised by nine out of every 10 people you run into in the course of your day. Nobody put the situation into better perspective than this guy:

"Not only does Congress have an approval rating below bubonic plague and head lice, I saw a recent poll that as many as 40 percent of people still believe that Congress is in Republican hands," says Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R) of Texas.

Now where would 40 percent get the impression that Congress is still run by the GOP?


wp
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. Democrats are tough on crime with their firm "now don't you do it again" stance.
Outlining Bush's crimes, without punishment, is nothing at all. Except insulting to the American public.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Monica Conyers Under Investigation By FBI,
Former Aide Says, By ...
Jul 1, 2008 ... A former aide says that Monica Conyers, Detroit city councilwoman and wife of House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4225649.shtml
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