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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:05 PM
Original message
McCain hits Obama on 9/10 mindset, Kerry, Clarke respond
Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 01:26 PM by ProSense
June 17, 2008

Kerry: McCain embraces Bush

Responding to the McCain campaign's shot at Obama as a "9/10 candidate" -- a familiar line of attack from the 2004 campaign, the 2004 Democratic nominee, John Kerry, told reporters that the attack drew McCain closer to Bush.

"He has fully embraced, willfully, openly, fully embraced the failed tragic policy of the Bush Administration over the last 7 and a half years, and he’s really defending a policy that’s indefensible," Kerry said.

Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism official, said he was "disgusted" by the McCain attack, and noted that Obama in fact does support a mix of law enforcement and military measures.

"I'd like them to show where in the record Senator Obama has ever said he is in favor of a pure law enforcement approach," he said, citing Obama's promise to go after terrorists in other countries without their governments' consent.


(on edit)

Within hours, the Obama campaign had responded with a conference call of its own. Framing McCain as having fully embraced the policies of George Bush (moreso now because he was mimicking his attack lines), surrogates to the Senator said it was the Republicans, not the Democrats who was out of touch about how to wage the war on terror.

"John McCain exhibited a clear pre-9/11 mentality as opposed to Barack Obama," said Sen. John Kerry. "When Barack Obama suggested that if we had actionable intelligence about Osama bin Laden's presence in Pakistan we would act on that and take him out. John McCain criticized that... John McCain defended Pakistani sovereignty and actually criticized him for doing that. In fact, it was BO who had the more proactive commitment to use the military and John McCain who defended a more legalistic approach."

link


McCain using Bush's hypocritical "September 10th Mindset" against Obama

Senator Kerry, NYT 2004 article:

When I asked Kerry what it would take for Americans to feel safe again, he displayed a much less apocalyptic worldview. ''We have to get back to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're a nuisance,'' Kerry said. ''As a former law-enforcement person, I know we're never going to end prostitution. We're never going to end illegal gambling. But we're going to reduce it, organized crime, to a level where it isn't on the rise. It isn't threatening people's lives every day, and fundamentally, it's something that you continue to fight, but it's not threatening the fabric of your life.''

This analogy struck me as remarkable, if only because it seemed to throw down a big orange marker between Kerry's philosophy and the president's. Kerry, a former prosecutor, was suggesting that the war, if one could call it that, was, if not winnable, then at least controllable. If mobsters could be chased into the back rooms of seedy clubs, then so, too, could terrorists be sent scurrying for their lives into remote caves where they wouldn't harm us. Bush had continually cast himself as the optimist in the race, asserting that he alone saw the liberating potential of American might, and yet his dark vision of unending war suddenly seemed far less hopeful than Kerry's notion that all of this horror -- planes flying into buildings, anxiety about suicide bombers and chemicals in the subway -- could somehow be made to recede until it was barely in our thoughts.

Kerry came to his worldview over the course of a Senate career that has been, by any legislative standard, a quiet affair. Beginning in the late 80's, Kerry's Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and International Operations investigated and exposed connections between Latin American drug dealers and BCCI, the international bank that was helping to launder drug money. That led to more investigations of arms dealers, money laundering and terrorist financing.

Kerry turned his work on the committee into a book on global crime, titled ''The New War,'' published in 1997. He readily admitted to me that the book ''wasn't exclusively on Al Qaeda''; in fact, it barely mentioned the rise of Islamic extremism. But when I spoke to Kerry in August, he said that many of the interdiction tactics that cripple drug lords, including governments working jointly to share intelligence, patrol borders and force banks to identify suspicious customers, can also be some of the most useful tools in the war on terror.

''Of all the records in the Senate, if you don't mind my saying, I think I was ahead of the curve on this entire dark side of globalization,'' he said. ''I think that the Senate committee report on contras, narcotics and drugs, et cetera, is a seminal report. People have based research papers on it. People have based documents on it, movies on it. I think it was a significant piece of work.''

More senior members of the foreign-relations committee, like Joe Biden and Richard Lugar, were far more visible and vocal on the emerging threat of Islamic terrorism. But through his BCCI investigation, Kerry did discover that a wide array of international criminals -- Latin American drug lords, Palestinian terrorists, arms dealers -- had one thing in common: they were able to move money around through the same illicit channels. And he worked hard, and with little credit, to shut those channels down.

In 1988, Kerry successfully proposed an amendment that forced the Treasury Department to negotiate so-called Kerry Agreements with foreign countries. Under these agreements, foreign governments had to promise to keep a close watch on their banks for potential money laundering or they risked losing their access to U.S. markets. Other measures Kerry tried to pass throughout the 90's, virtually all of them blocked by Republican senators on the banking committee, would end up, in the wake of 9/11, in the USA Patriot Act; among other things, these measures subject banks to fines or loss of license if they don't take steps to verify the identities of their customers and to avoid being used for money laundering.

Through his immersion in the global underground, Kerry made connections among disparate criminal and terrorist groups that few other senators interested in foreign policy were making in the 90's. Richard A. Clarke, who coordinated security and counterterrorism policy for George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, credits Kerry with having seen beyond the national-security tableau on which most of his colleagues were focused. ''He was getting it at the same time that people like Tony Lake were getting it, in the '93 -'94 time frame,'' Clarke says, referring to Anthony Lake, Clinton's national security adviser. ''And the 'it' here was that there was a new nonstate-actor threat, and that nonstate-actor threat was a blended threat that didn't fit neatly into the box of organized criminal, or neatly into the box of terrorism. What you found were groups that were all of the above.''

In other words, Kerry was among the first policy makers in Washington to begin mapping out a strategy to combat an entirely new kind of enemy. Americans were conditioned, by two world wars and a long standoff with a rival superpower, to see foreign policy as a mix of cooperation and tension between civilized states. Kerry came to believe, however, that Americans were in greater danger from the more shadowy groups he had been investigating -- nonstate actors, armed with cellphones and laptops -- who might detonate suitcase bombs or release lethal chemicals into the subway just to make a point. They lived in remote regions and exploited weak governments. Their goal wasn't to govern states but to destabilize them.

The challenge of beating back these nonstate actors -- not just Islamic terrorists but all kinds of rogue forces -- is what Kerry meant by ''the dark side of globalization.'' He came closest to articulating this as an actual foreign-policy vision in a speech he gave at U.C.L.A. last February. ''The war on terror is not a clash of civilizations,'' he said then. ''It is a clash of civilization against chaos, of the best hopes of humanity against dogmatic fears of progress and the future.''

This stands in significant contrast to the Bush doctrine, which holds that the war on terror, if not exactly a clash of civilizations, is nonetheless a struggle between those states that would promote terrorism and those that would exterminate it. Bush, like Kerry, accepts the premise that America is endangered mainly by a new kind of adversary that claims no state or political entity as its own. But he does not accept the idea that those adversaries can ultimately survive and operate independently of states; in fact, he asserts that terrorist groups are inevitably the subsidiaries of irresponsible regimes. ''We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients,'' the National Security Strategy said, in a typical passage, ''before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the United States and our allies and friends.''

By singling out three states in particular- Iraq, North Korea and Iran -- as an ''axis of evil,'' and by invading Iraq on the premise that it did (or at least might) sponsor terrorism, Bush cemented the idea that his war on terror is a war against those states that, in the president's words, are not with us but against us. Many of Bush's advisers spent their careers steeped in cold-war strategy, and their foreign policy is deeply rooted in the idea that states are the only consequential actors on the world stage, and that they can -- and should -- be forced to exercise control over the violent groups that take root within their borders.

Kerry's view, on the other hand, suggests that it is the very premise of civilized states, rather than any one ideology, that is under attack. And no one state, acting alone, can possibly have much impact on the threat, because terrorists will always be able to move around, shelter their money and connect in cyberspace; there are no capitals for a superpower like the United States to bomb, no ambassadors to recall, no economies to sanction. The U.S. military searches for bin Laden, the Russians hunt for the Chechen terrorist Shamil Basayev and the Israelis fire missiles at Hamas bomb makers; in Kerry's world, these disparate terrorist elements make up a loosely affiliated network of diabolical villains, more connected to one another by tactics and ideology than they are to any one state sponsor. The conflict, in Kerry's formulation, pits the forces of order versus the forces of chaos, and only a unified community of nations can ensure that order prevails.

One can infer from this that if Kerry were able to speak less guardedly, in a less treacherous atmosphere than a political campaign, he might say, as some of his advisers do, that we are not in an actual war on terror. Wars are fought between states or between factions vying for control of a state; Al Qaeda and its many offspring are neither. If Kerry's foreign-policy frame is correct, then law enforcement probably is the most important, though not the only, strategy you can employ against such forces, who need passports and bank accounts and weapons in order to survive and flourish. Such a theory suggests that, in our grief and fury, we have overrated the military threat posed by Al Qaeda, paradoxically elevating what was essentially a criminal enterprise, albeit a devastatingly sophisticated and global one, into the ideological successor to Hitler and Stalin -- and thus conferring on the jihadists a kind of stature that might actually work in their favor, enabling them to attract more donations and more recruits.



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. The fact of the matter is:
We catch the bad guys, prevent terrorism, and save lives through these combined efforts. Is this not obvious, even to conservative Republicans? Or does McCain’s team think the only way to protect our interests is to invade foreign countries?

link




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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama Surrogates Hit Back On Terrorism
June 17, 2008

Obama Surrogates Hit Back On Terrorism

Posted by KYLE TRYGSTAD

Responding to the McCain campaign's attack on Obama's remarks on battling terrorism, the Obama campaign responded with biting remarks of its own from two of its surrogates, Sen. John Kerry and former counter-terrorism official Richard Clarke.

In a conference call with reporters, Kerry said McCain has "fully embraced the failed troubled policies of the Bush administration over the last seven and a half years. He's defending policies that are really indefensible. ... The measure of that is in the reality on the ground in what is happening globally."

Clarke said he was "disgusted" by the McCain campaign's attempt to paint Obama as "weak" on terrorism, when in fact, with the assistance of his own advising, Obama has a comprehensive counter-terrorism plan, something he says McCain does not have.

"To do this, to drive a wedge between Americans for partisan advantage, and to frankly frighten Americans -- they're saying, as they have before, that the Democratic candidate favors purely a law enforcement approach," Clarke said. "They said that about the Clinton administration, they said that about Senator Kerry, and they said that now about Senator Obama. I'd like them to show where in the record Senator Obama has ever said that he's in favor of pure law enforcement approach."

Referring to the recent Supreme Court ruling that gave Guantanamo Bay detainees the rights to due process, Clarke said, "There's absolutely no reason to believe we couldn't have done things constitutionally. Terrorists in the past have been arrested. Terrorists in the past have been given court hearings, found guilty by juries and sentenced to jail. So there's no reason to assume that using constitutional means to get wiretaps or constitutional means to interrogate people doesn't work."

Kerry called the McCain campaign's comments about Obama a "phony argument," and said, "The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that they have those rights. This is not Barack Obama. This is the Supreme Court of the United States. If John McCain were president he would have to give them those rights."

"This is a completely fraudulent fear-tactic, scare-tactic played on the lowest-common-denominator strategy by John McCain and his colleagues."



Wow all these views of the OP, no comments?





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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. The ONLY way to deal with them
is to punch back--immediately and hard.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. OMG, now playing McCain surrogate
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. This shit scares me
Obama will hit terrorist in sovereign countries without their approval. This is just more of the Bush* doctrine and it scares the hell out of me. It is not what I would consider proper government behavior..
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It scares you that Obama is like Bush?
Really?

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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pfft. McCain has an August 29th cake-time mentality.
Admiral McCombover and Dumbya August 29, 2005.


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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Mccain's statement is actually a positive one-
This country lost it's mind as a result of 9/11.

We have become a lesser people as a direct result of the "9/11" mindset.

peace~
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obama: government can crack down on terrorists "within the constraints of our Constitution."
Obama said the government can crack down on terrorists "within the constraints of our Constitution." He mentioned the indefinite detention of Guantanamo Bay detainees, contrasting their treatment with the prosecution of the 1993 World Trade Center bombings.

"And, you know, let's take the example of Guantanamo," Obama said. "What we know is that, in previous terrorist attacks — for example, the first attack against the World Trade Center — we were able to arrest those responsible, put them on trial. They are currently in U.S. prisons, incapacitated.

"And the fact that the administration has not tried to do that has created a situation where not only have we never actually put many of these folks on trial, but we have destroyed our credibility when it comes to rule of law all around the world, and given a huge boost to terrorist recruitment in countries that say, 'Look, this is how the United States treats Muslims. ...

"We could have done the exact same thing, but done it in a way that was consistent with our laws," Obama said.

link




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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. So, the Republicans lost big time in 2006 and Obama's campaign hit McCain's BS argument
Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 08:19 PM by ProSense
and the kooky pundits think this is a good sign for McCain?

Despite the talking heads, Kerry's response on behalf of Obamagot a lot of good press coverage today

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