Question about the 39 hour work week.

[DaveJ]

I know somebody who works for one of these places who don't want to provide any benefits, so they have here working part time at full time hours.

I know she has been working weekends a lot in addition to the 5 weekdays, and I know she has often gone over 40 hours a week. But, her employers go back on forth on their policy. Sometimes they demand no overtime, by at least half the time they need work done so badly that they have her work overtime anyway.

She's been there almost 1 1/2 years now and is starting to get tired of her treatment. There have been a few times she left early (yet after her 'scheduled' hours).

Now, management is confronting her about it. A prior manager got fired, who was only there 6 months, so the old backstabbers are back in charge. They called her into a meeting. In the meeting, she was starting to get so fed up, she let out her frustrations, told them they are 'using' her, that what they are doing is 'illegal', and how she has been promised a full time status for over a year now. Here scheduled hours are something like 7 to 1 but they have her work until 4:30 anyway, with a half hour lunch of course (too little time to go anywhere else to eat -- of course).

I know the obvious thing for her to do is to get another job that treats her better.

But I wonder what other options there are.

We're in the Chicago area, but this company is operated out of some other state, like South Carolina I think. Jobs in the city treat people well, buy I've noticed a lot of companies, especially the ones out in the suburbs, are operated from afar, and often have little respect for their people's working conditions.

Is there any limit to how long a company can get away with making their employees work 39 hours and deny full time benefits? If they fire her under these circumstances, would that make any case regarding unemployment benefits eligibility? Does the fact that she's often worked over 40 hours make any difference?

[Hydra]

1. It depends on the laws in the area

I'm in a position that should be illegal too, but when I called them on it, I was bluntly told that I work at their pleasure, and that they are beyond the law due to a special status they have.

IMO, she should get another job, simply for the reason that the bosses hate her, so no matter what she accomplishes, she'll never get anywhere. They'll always have some minor nitpick about why she isn't promotable or such.

[DaveJ]

4. She has no H.S. degree

She'll be used no matter how hard she works or where she goes.

They don't need to nitpick.

But there are companies who hire people like this for the specific reason that they can be used.

[Hydra]

5. Yup

I have no degree either- but I've managed to find a fair boss now and then that has giving good recommendations for me or pointed me to jobs available that they were not interested in.

I could leave where I am right now and get the same wage with better benefits, but I'm getting IT exp on my resume from this, so patience is the word.

[DaveJ]

14. Thanks for the encouragement.

While the degree is obviously essential for most people, not having it shouldn't disqualify someone from being treated with respect for life. She is, in fact very sharp, but her insights are not always conventional. I can tell that they were not formed by institutional education, but they are extremely valuable nevertheless.

[Hydra]

16. Institutional education is pretty crappy, all things considered

But as my Mom told me, "They are training factory workers."

My smartass perspective has gotten me farther in life than almost anything, though I treasure my time at school- I learned the basics there. I had to teach myself to think, though.

[Wizard777]

2. No employer is required to give you 40 hours or benefits.

We recently passed a law in Maryland that would require large companies like Wal mart to provide benefits to it's employee. The law was overturned by the courts.

[DaveJ]

6. Yes, but what about making her work overtime?

They often have extra work to do and they say she's not a team player unless she works the overtime. This happens regularly. I'm just wondering how that factors in....

[Wizard777]

22. As long as they give her overtime pay for the overtimes hours.

She has to work them. If she lives in an at will employment state. They can fire her for no other reason than they are tired of looking at her. The only way I can think of for her to fend off the mandatory overtime is to have her doctor write anote saying it's detrimental to her health. But there is a possibility they could still fire her.

[mike_c]

3. there's really only one solution to this problem in the absence of labor organization....

Find another job. Employers are not obligated to treat their employees with dignity but most seek some level of balanced exploitation at least because they view that as being in their best interest. Some employers take the most exploitative route possible however, reasoning that every dime they screw their employees out of is "profit"-- a rather limited notion of the nature of profit, but that's probably never going to convince most companies whose operating philosophy originates in the accounting department.

The only solution is to NOT validate that behavior by doing what they expect us to do. Leave.

[DCKit]

7. Though the above are good suggestions...

no employer has the right to create a "hostile" work environment. Your friend needs to document, document and document some more.

If this company regularly offers benefits to "full-time" employees (and I thought "full-time" was anything over 35 hrs/week), then she's just being used and kept in limbo so they don't have to pay the extra.

Rather than fight what could easily be a losing battle, she should look for another job, then make sure to tell everyone she knows what a shitty place that is to work. Filing a complaint with whatever government agency couldn't hurt either - they do keep track of abusive employers.

[DaveJ]

8. Thanks

I believe she is keeping a paper trail, at least in her head, if not documented.

One interesting thing that just occurred to me is that she has mentioned seeing hours not being put into her pay check.

It just occurred to me that they may be doing this to cover up the fact they are working her over the legal limit.

Damn.

Reporting the issue is a good idea too.

[dysfunctional press]

12. a "paper trail" is just that- DOCUMENTED, not "in her head"

tell her to DOCUMENT it.

[DaveJ]

19. It's hard to document this -- they're covering it up

Apparently they are leaving hours worked off the check in order to avoid getting in trouble. Anyway, I've told her to document but I can't force her. She's just being taken advantage of by users and backstabbers so I guess she's bringing it on herself.

Lots of companies like to hire people with low self esteem who allow themselves to be taken advantage of.

Plus, who are the authorities going to believe, some low wage earners who don't know anything about the law or corporate big shots? In the meantime, they'll probably find a way to fire her.

According to all the posts I've been reading here, employers can fire people for any reason. A call to authorities must be a reason I'd think.

They'll just say they didn't approve the overtime, even though they are conveying the impression that employees should show "team spirit" by working the extra hours.

Worst case scenario is the executives pay a fine, and go on being millionaires laughing about it at the country club.

Edit: Anyway, I think she writes down her hours worked. Not sure if she keeps a copy. I'll check next time I see her.

[dysfunctional press]

20. my father got into the habit of writing his worked hours every day in a scheduling book...

he worked as a heavy equipment "operating engineer" -cranes mostly, and everyday he'd write down his hours worked, along with a brief description of the days work. every payday, he'd staple his checkstub to that day's page in his schedule book, after making sure that the hours he worked were all paid for. at the end of the year, he'd file the book. and every christmas, one of dad's presents was next year's book.

i only wish that the habit had rubbed off on me- when i became disabled and had to apply for social security, i found out that a by then bankrupt company that i had worked for almost 15 years earlier had never actually paid the government the fica money they deducted from my checks for over 2 years- over 12% of my lifetime wages against which my disability payments are based- so my monthly check is 12% less than it otherwise would be. at the time it was discovered, the ss guy told me that if i had documentation to show what had been deducted, i could be credited by the ss- but without documentation- i get/got ZERO.

[DCKit]

17. And if the employer isn't paying for hours worked...

they're going to get a visit from some very nasty people.

[uppityperson]

9. It depends on the laws of the state whether it is an employee or employer friendly state

WA is employer friendly with laws. I was required to come into work on my scheduled day off for a staff meeting that was basically employee moral building exercises, told I would be fired if I didn't. And it was legal. Pointing out the absurdity helped as it was a small business, and they made another policy that each employee could miss some number every yr, but then would be fired.

However, most places and states I've worked, if you work 32 hours/wk they need to give you benefits. But haven't worked in IL.

Check with state labor laws, see if there is an ombudsman office which can help. They act as go-betweens between people and gvt and I think they are in most states. And make sure she keeps a written record of everything as memory is not good enough.

[DaveJ]

10. I'm still not clear on this...

I could not find any indication whether employers are required to give 'benefits' in Illinois under any circumstances.

Perhaps someone could help me find out.

I can't even find out whether there is any distinction between part-time and full-time here at all.

Can someone help me? I'm just confused apparently.

[eShirl]

11. Illinois Dept. of Labor website has a FAQ I just found...

http://www.state.il.us/agency/idol/faq/faq.htm

[DaveJ]

13. Yes. That's what I was trying.

I could not find the terms "full time" or "part time" anywhere. So I'm wondering if this means there is no legal distinction between the two here.

[madmom]

15. Sounds like she works for Meijer, that sounds a lot like what they did to me.They are

suppose to be a union shop, but it was a form letter contract only.

[Blue Diadem]

18. Years ago, in Ohio, I was told there was a law

that allowed them to make you work a set number of consecutive weeks full time while still keeping you on the payroll as a part-timer with no benefits. The final week that would make you full time, they'd drop you back to hardly any hours and the following week you'd be right back up to full time hours. I don't remember the number of weeks anymore, it was always my pet peeve about working for Sears.

I also never found out if it was a state law or federal law or if it even existed.

Here's the DOL site:

http://www.dol.gov/dol/siteindex.htm

[Pharlo]

21. findlaw.com is handy as hell....

http://answers.findlaw.com/abaflg/flg-12.html

Click on 'Wages and Hours' (Note: Search parameters set to Chicago IL)

Based upon this, if the company who owns the place of employment is based in another state, her situation is covered under the FSLA. Continue the search until you find the information that will help her.

If you don't find EXACTLY what you're looking for, use their "Post a Question to the FindLaw community via Answers Q&A".

If, as a previous poster mentioned, there is the possibility of a union involved, utilize their legal expertise as well. The one time I had a legal question concerning the workplace, I was in a union, and had access to their labor attorneys.

Good luck to your friend.