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Forget the Landslide Hubris: Anyone Remember Carter vs. Ford?

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 03:57 AM
Original message
Forget the Landslide Hubris: Anyone Remember Carter vs. Ford?
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 04:00 AM by JCMach1
An old bumbling and stumbling older guy going against the maverick outsider after one of the worst Presidents in history (Nixon). Carter was up huge in the Spring and Summer (much more than Obama is now).

By Fall, Ford came within a whisker of pulling the upset. Scintillating campaigner could in no way describe Ford either.

Forget the landslide dreams and get to work!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Under the circumstances, Obama should be up by high double digits
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 04:28 AM by depakid
The fact that he's not- with Republicans more unpopular than at any time in history just makes me shake my head and laugh at all the "landslide" talk.

Seems to me, the Dems will be lucky to pull this off.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Carter was up 33%
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. And Ford put in the worst debate performance
in history.

He made Bush look like a Shakespearean actor by comparison.

In the debate, Ford announced that he didn't think Poland was dominated by the USSR. The reporter was shocked enough that he later came back t it and asked the sitting President if that's what he had meant to say. He said yes, that he certainly didn't think the Poles thought they were dominated by the USSR.

The world scratched its collected head in amazement, and yet Ford really did almost make it all the way back.

He barely lost Texas, and that after a celebrated incident where he tried to eat the corn husk on a tamale.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yup, and that was when we had the Fairness Doctrine
2000 should have been a landslide for Gore
2004 should have been a landslide for Kerry
I dread what the media will do over the next few months.
I dread what Bush and Cheney will do over the next few months.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. (dupe)
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 05:04 AM by bananas
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. Historical perspective: in short supply here. Thanks. nt
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Point taken, however.....
I appreciate your historical perspective and it may be something to consider. I would add this.... Look at voter turn out in the primaries (you can do this through the NY Times web page). Look at the state by state turn out even in the early races. Dem turnout was multiple times the Republican turnout.

My guess (just as good as anyone else's guess) is this will be a huge blowout for Obama in the fall. I don't know if McCain will take a state.



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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I worry that not all the Dem turnout was Dem voters.
I don't know how large a part of it was Republicans registering as Democrats to try to influence the outcome, but I suspect a non-trivial part may have been.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. good insight
I concur. It is very likely that cross-over primary voting occurred.

The uber-right has a huge emotional investment in this election. They know the future of this country is in the scales with this election and they do not plan to concede.

They'll use all their old dirty tricks, and anything they stumble across along the way. This election is not won.

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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't think so
Despite Rush's noise machine, I don't think there was that much. There are Republicans who felt they didn't have a choice on there side or that they were all bad choices. There were some that crossed over to create mischief, but on a large scale, I don't see it. What I do see is new folks coming into the system, folks that are just plain fed up with the B.S. and want change and want it now.


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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. That's a 'limbaugh' fantasy,...hardly worth ANY credit, whatsoever. nft
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. Other factors shaped that race in 1976.
Ford was the incumbent, but an unelected incumbent, which skews that variable. When he pardoned Nixon he lost significant support. He never fully recovered among that demographic. It would have helped if he had gotten the "Poland" question right on the televised debate, too. The debate moderator offered Ford a second chance for clarification and Ford dug in his heels deeper.

An acquaintence of mine in New York City said she resented having to choose that year between "a Sunday school teacher and an elderly Boy Scout." A lot of Democrats didn't see Carter as a "maverick," although many praised the distance he represented from the George Wallace era for Southern governors. Wallace ran in the primaries that year and Carter whupped him. Florida, really, was the Old George Wallace's last stand in the primaries. After that we saw an Updated George Wallace on racial equality.

Just my take, but one way to look at that presidential contest in 76 is that it finished so close in the final voting because both men were bland. Neither one was "maverick," in this assessment, neither represented fiery ideological reform or were felt to be at the vanguard of a particularly sharp public issue. Rockefeller was shown the door and Ford picked Dole as his hatchet man; anyone who wanted to know why Dole made a piss-poor presidential candidate in the 90s had only to consider his public performance as Ford's running mate in 76. Notably terrible.

Carter did better in choosing Mondale, but Mondale was more of an assurance gesture, IMO. Stalwart Democrat from Hubert Humphrey land, good at the strong handshake, reassuring to County Dems coast to coast that this ticket is solid if not especially dynamic. Eugene McCarthy once said that Walter Mondale "has the soul of a vice president," this in an era when vice presidents kept their mouths shut, dressed nicely at international leaders' funerals, and didn't bring much to bear on actual decision-making. Pre-Cheney, in other words.

Unlike Dick Cheney, Walter Mondale would never wear a snow parka to a Holocaust memorial service.

Ford was ultimately the drab stumbler and the Right fell in love with Reagan. Ted Kennedy challenged Carter in part because feeling burgeoned that Carter's administration did not sufficiently represent labor and other key constituencies. There were also significant grumblings about his Cabinet and the rarer but telling moments that subtracted from his "maverick" image, such as the firing of Bella Abzug. Ask an older feminist or pro-feminist male what they thought of Carter firing Bella Abzug, and you have several pieces of the argument for Kennedy's challenge.

Carter attempted to get hostages out of Iran. The effort failed. But the effort had been made and in the overview, peace efforts in the Middle East did far, far, far better under Carter than under anyone since, and especially either Bush and Dubya particularly. So the international picture has changed considerably in the two time frames, with the Republican Party seen as recalcitrant assholes and Carter and Bill Clinton as trying valiantly to achieve peace.

Obama, given that he now has no less than 50% odds of being our next president (far better odds than that, IMO), would inherit an Oval Office which has been disgraced by its 8-year inhabitant. Gerald Ford, stumbler and bumbler though he was perceived to be, was never considered morally bankrupt as this younger more treacherous Bush is considered. Dubya's approval ratings are at historic lows, and justifiably so. McCain is hobbled with and very significantly endorsed 8 years of corruption, deceit, pointless bloodshed, more deceit, a deliberate undoing of what is GOOD in government, and a long string of the worst appointments to Cabinet & other positions in the history of the United States.

As well, McCain sounds like a walking corpse. He sounds as if insects have chomped away at large parts of his brain and very little blood and oxygen are getting through. I expect him at the first presidential debate to be wheeled out on a guerney.

I don't know anybody who thinks we have a drive-thru landslide at hand without effort, but I know lots of people willing to work to achieve a huge victory percentage and national mandate, and that there have been such landslides under certain conditions in presidential history. This year could be one of those.

I like our chances for attaining that goal and I think we have the candidate to achieve it with.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. OF course, every race is different... However,
there are enough similarities not to become overconfident.

Ford overcame a 33% lead DESPITE his stumbles and nearly won.

Don't misunderestimate McCain and the Repug noise machine.
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ProgressiveFool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. thanks for the informative post
I was just a kid back then, so it's interesting to hear what went on with Carter. I've always known Carter to be a supremely decent guy, and was always sort of surprised he only got one term.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. Just signed up today
:patriot:
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. About all I can do is donate...!
But hey, that's something.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm not one who thinks it will be a landslide. I think we should fight like were 10% back
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yip, & the much vaunted "2nd biggest new voter totals": Guess when was 1st-- 1972!1 n/t
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Plus, in '60 LBJ was much bigger deal than HRC today, & JFK/BO similar
yet the cable yakkers are making it sound like BO's choice of HRC or not is the biggest, most mind-bending decision EVER!1 Just think how big LBJ was back then, and even when compared to JFK.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. There's no comparison and far more desperation. We'll be fine, unless,...
,...there's another war,...

,...in which case,...this executive has the power to do everything any dictator will do,...

:scared:
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. You forget the war climate then... when had just come out of a war we lost
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