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Is it really possible that they don't know how unethical they are?

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:16 PM
Original message
Is it really possible that they don't know how unethical they are?
No, this isn't about the primaries or about high profile politicians. This is about decisions made by ordinary people who make incredibly stupid decisions, and don't see that they're being unethical.

This is for the athletic coach who took it upon himself to deny a child the right to come up with her own quote for the yearbook, and used his own words with quotation marks, then added further insult, by misspelling her name. IN THE YEARBOOK. Like that isn't going to be around a while.

This is for the class leader who became alarmed when the stoners almost won one ... you know, I'm not even going to finish that one. I'm just surrounded by example after example of unethical behavior from people who think it's their mission in life to maintain a certain order in the universe, and are willing to lie, cheat and bully to get there, and think they're honorable for doing it.

Am I the only one? Are there other people who live in communities like mine?
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cheating is a survival technique for some people.
They haven't evolved any real skills per se, but have adapted techniques to bulshit/bull to survive.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What happened to the days when someone got fired for doing things like this?
Now they get a pat on the back.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's because the game has changed.
It's not about the infinite perfectibility of true liberalism, or teamwork, or any of that self-actualized stuff. It's an entitlement to reap the rewards that come from cheating. It's all about getting what you want, doing whatever it takes to get it, and doing whatever the hell you want with it once you've got it.

It doesn't matter to the short-sighted idiots that they're shitting where they eat, as long as they believe they've got one over you. People are willing to destroy the system that sustains them if they believe it gives them an advantage over others (those who think the system should work to benefit all).


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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Shouldn't we be teaching this to kids, instead of the good vs evil pablum?
There is no good. There is no reward in doing good deeds. And if you catch an entire community doing something evil, no one will help you anyway. Shit, you just might want to write about it and hope that some future archeologists digs up your journal and reads it to find out why the society failed.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. We should
Edited on Wed Jun-04-08 10:59 AM by blackops
but it's easier to see the rewards that come from cheating. Problem is, there is no punishment for those who do cheat, so it corrupts the whole system.

Here's a post I wrote in winter 2006:

Liberals believe people are generally good. People want to work to better their lives, and by trying to achieve their own perfection, bring the state closer to perfection. Not all people are good, and authoritative governments, ie. dictatorships, representing the beliefs of one individual and likely to only benefit that individual, are unacceptable. Democracies are considered to be the form of government that best represents the beliefs of the people, and as such, are the preferred governments to achieve harmonious coexistence between states. Non-interventionist liberals believe time will sort out any differences between states. Interventionist liberals believe actions must take place to move things along. So, the invasion of a state, the removal of a hostile government, and the creation of a democracy is a just, noble event.

Of course, bullshit begets more bullshit.

I recently did a paper for my political science class on the fourth chapter of Kenneth Waltz's Man the State and War. My right-wing republican military instructor assigned the chapter to us, and surprise! the author explains liberalism and why he feels it's a flawed concept. Actually, the underlying belief that man is generally pretty good, and that states can peacefully coexist is even by my standards unlikely to ever occur. Let's face it. Most people are out to get what's best for them and rarely consider what is best for the group. Consider the plundering of America by the Asshole in Charge and you see how pitiful it is that Joe Sixpack in BFE thinks that the POTUS gives a shit about him. I did find it interesting that taking action to "spread democracy" is listed by the author as a characteristic of "interventionist liberals", so the next time some bushbot gives you shit about being liberal, throw that back at 'em. I must admit, the * regime's decision to decision to launch a preemptive strike to eliminate a hostile government and set up a democracy by which (the state) could become closer to achieving infinite perfectibility and, as a result, coexist in harmony is, on its face, a good thing. Unfortunately, the reality is the "noble deed" is a poorly executed fraud that has cost hundreds of billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives so some motherfuckers can become even more rich and powerful. Anyway, here's what I wrote:

In chapter four of Kenneth Waltz’s Man the State and War, Waltz examines the internal and external actions of a state, and how these actions may lead to the occurrence of war. The liberal ideology of domestic and international affairs, Waltz argues, is impractical and flawed. This paper will describe liberal ideologies and give reasons why they are faulty.
Liberals believe man is generally good, and in domestic affairs, can be trusted to equitably dispense the profits of labor back into production and distribution. Hard work benefits the individual and in turn, benefits society. “Free-market regulators” would provide the necessary control and government oversight would not be needed. Unfortunately, some people are greedy, and will take advantage of the system to meet their own ends. Hence the need for government control, Waltz argues.

With international relations, the liberal view is that states should provide only a minimum of duties, and that war is only necessary to correct a miscarriage of justice. They believe in a harmony between the states, and that states should seek only that which benefits all. This idyllic view loses focus when interpreting the views of individual policy makers in dictatorships who have their own personal agenda. Democracies then are the preferred form of government to achieve this goal of international harmony.
The error in this reasoning is the assumption that other states will strive to become “infinitely perfectible” and that their actions are representative of the majority of their population, not the minority. By accepting the motivations of others as “good”, one could be left open to an unforeseen attack. Including geography and past history in estimating a state’s proclivity for war is also a dangerous assumption.

Noninterventionist liberals believe that time will correct any imbalances in international affairs. Interventionist liberals feel that action against “bad” governments must take place to achieve peace. This is dangerous in that “just causes” for war are determined by the state making the declaration, and may also be used by the opposing state.
In lieu of war, liberals believe in an international body to arbitrate any conflicts, using international mores and public opinion to maintain peace. This is not unlike today’s United Nations. However, the effectiveness of such a body is called into question when it lacks any army or police to enforce its decisions.

In conclusion, the liberal’s view that man and states will coexist in harmony through the process of attaining “infinite perfectibility” is overly optimistic and utopian. Not all countries are democracies, and not all people are good. Thankfully, the neoconservatives in the current administration have instituted government regulations to curb corporate greed (Enron, big oil), ensured that state’s actions represent and benefit the majority (Dick Cheney, Halliburton), and declared that “just causes” for war do not serve any hidden agendas (oil, revenge). Otherwise, things might be really bad.




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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. The kind of people who see the need to destroy democracy in order to save it...
There's a name for people like that. Republicans.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The problem is, that they don't own up to their mistakes when it becomes
blaring obvious that they screwed up royally. They just compound it by attacking those who call them on it.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. it's not even that anymore
in fact...I'd say our side has as many detractors in it these days.
It's not about political parties anymore because the vichyssoise republicans have defected to our party.
In fact, I don't even recognize my party anymore.:shrug:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You are so damn right!
I have three local Democrats in my sights, involved in a conspiracy scheme. Who in the Democratic party is going to help me? Four Democrats and too many Republicans to count and I can't get a newspaper in Florida to write about it. Where do you go when the political networks encompass both parties and the entire state is compromised?
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. People will cheat for lots of reasons..
MOney, power, just not to look bad.....So much on this one..more later.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. Authoritarianism = pathology
...or, to quote the late Bill Hicks, "Humanity is a virus with shoes."
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KSinTX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
11. Not enough info
What was the quote? What are the guidelines for their inclusion in the yearbook? What are the guidelines for faculty action if the quote doesn't meet guidelines?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. The quote basically was a testimonial for his program.
Though it was something that was a nice thing to say, he also got a lot of personal mileage out of it.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. It is the nature of a portion of humanity. Always has been and always will be.
Edited on Wed Jun-04-08 07:52 AM by tom_paine
Please see this link for scientific confirmation of what is quite obvious already.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. But.. but.. but.. 9-11 Changed EVERYTHING
Didn't you get the memo?
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MadinMo Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. Fundies!
Edited on Wed Jun-04-08 10:19 AM by MadinMo
Fundies. At least that is the case where I'm living. You hit the nail on the head with "...think it's their mission in life to maintain a certain order in the universe....", Yep. Fundies.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. Those "class leaders" are the Karl Roves of the future
They're very self-centered, and while they know that there's something called "ethics" out there, they think it's for the "little people," not big shots like them. They could probably recite rules for ethical behavior, but they have never internalized them.
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