Hey, Take a L@@k At This Email I got this morning

[QueenOfCalifornia]

Dear DUers, I belong to a large email group that spans this country - we are all anti war activists. We all want change in government.

Well, today our whole group got this email. I reacted like someone had held a gun to my 7 year old daughters head. What is YOUR reaction - I will take the best answers and put them together and send them back to the person who sent this to me:

The Democratic Party is pro-war.

The Democratic Presidential candidates are pro-war.

Would you mind explaining to me how people can further the cause of
peace by voting for war?

Explain to me how voting in rigged elections for pro-war candidates
can further the cause of peace?

You can be against the war or you can be a Republican or a Democrat.

You can't vote Republican or Democrat and claim to be against the war,
because both parties and their candidates are pro-war.

Since we have a two-party system, only a pro-war candidate can "win"
in our rigged "elections."

I'm helping organize an election boycott for November. Instead of
voting in faith-based elections, we will be asking people to vote in a
nationwide grassroots referendum where we guarantee that everyone's
vote will count. Everyone's name will be published and the names will
be given to Congress, the media, and disseminated as widely as possible.

It will be an opportunity for people to Vote No in November.

NO on war.

No on outsourcing jobs.

YES on citizen-ownership of transparent participatory democracy.

We will stick to things that most Americans agree on and not bring in
anything partisan. A low voter turnout in November will show the world
that we really do oppose the war, we're not just saying it.

So what's more important to you, -----, opposing the war, or
supporting pro-war Democrats and the pro-war Democratic Party?

Do you really believe that after two stolen elections maybe this time
your lesser evil pro-war candidate won't concede to the Republican,
that this time your vote will be counted, that this time things will
be different?

Do you know that our Constitution doesn't allow us to vote for
President and Vice-President, and that when you cast a vote you're
really voting for the slate of electors of the political party to
which the candidate belongs, not for the candidate?

Do you like having representatives you cannot remove if they violate
their oaths of office and having to endure them for four years until
the next rigged election?

-------------Here there are links to things the emailer wrote and published on the internet. Because I do not want to expose who this person is, I left out the links-------

He ended the email by saying this:

It really enrages me that my opposition to war is constantly
frustrated by people who claim to oppose the war but insist on voting
for pro-war political parties and pro-war candidates.

If you are against the war, the very least you could do is stop voting
for it. It really makes me angry when people become willingly
complicit in war crimes by voting for pro-war candidates.

(edit to exclude a name in the email)

[LaurenG]

1. Oops it looks like someone is mixed up

either that or Karl is sending out email now. :wow:

[goddess40]

2. So Rove is still working this election

This sure sounds like some shit he'd send out.

[wtmusic]

6. If stuff like this is showing up now

imagine Sept.-Oct. when desperation really sinks in.

Yikes. :wow:

[VP505]

36. Ya, because they know a low

voter turnout will make it easier to steal another one.

[Richardo]

3. Working for a low voter turnout. I don't get it.

We've had that most of MY life and that has only gotten us what we have today. I don't see the logic.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html

In 48 years we've never cracked 64%, and the closest to that was in 1960.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. To be fair there are two factions in the D party

the Imperial Faction and the Progressive faction

The Imperial Faction has the power right now

[QueenOfCalifornia]

16. So, staying home

and not voting is pretty lame.

Vote out the Imperialists.

Hurry... I can't wait much longer.

[magellan]

24. How is voting out the Imperialists possible

...when around here, if you express reservations about voting for a 'D' because they're a DINO/blue dog, you get slammed with "you might as well vote 'R'"?

IOW if not voting is a crime, and not voting for the most likely to win Dem is a crime, then what other alternative is there except (re)electing Imperialists?

This is an ever-widening circular course that has weakened the Progressive wing of the party to the point that the leadership now feels comfortable publicly marginalizing and ignoring us. I'd like to understand how you think this eventually works in the favor of Progressive wing of the party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. I will be voting for the challenger to my blue dog

when I go to the polls later today...

And I KNOW I will not be voting for her in November, and my hope (her seat is so safe it is not even funny) that she at least gets a scare and half a clue

BUt the reality is that we all need to do that

Yellow dog partly brought us to this partisan politics

And yes for some if you vote for the Green you will be casting a vote for the RNC, really do not understand US History

The role of those third parties is not necessarily to get in power but press the ones in power to do something

Few round these parts realize the New Deal was not Roosevelt's idea originally, and neither was Minimum Wage. The Dems were as much against it as the Republics of the age were.

But them damn commies got a very good showing in the 1932 election... and that scared folks in the power structure right out of their hate for something like oh the New Deal

But hey, I am talking political minutiae that many folks do not get around here... and it has a name, strategic voting.

The Caveat is that enough people need to do it

[Vilis Veritas]

5. COINTELPRO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

Great way to get some of you to not vote for anyone...expect more of the same.

Just my opinion...I could be wrong...

Peace

edited to add: very low level cointelpro to muck up the works...

[QueenOfCalifornia]

8. Wow!

very interesting.

I suggest people click on that link!

Thanks,

Gilligan

[Vilis Veritas]

12. Anytime...

And pass the link on to your list and remain vigilant.

saddlesore

[QueenOfCalifornia]

31. I shall

they have been sent this link to the thread and hopefully some will link to it.

[Gman]

7. There were lots of posts expressing similar sentiments here on DU over the years

[robinlynne]

9. but they didn't conclude "don't vote." they concluded "let's get rid of the

right wing Democrtas and replace them with progressive Democrats". huge difference.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

10. The whole thrust of the email

is to get us to stay home on election day. Not Vote.

Not a huge difference.

[robinlynne]

32. That is my point exactly. It is reactionary. DUers do not advocate boycotting elections.

The far right does.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

13. Where

does it say that?

Not anywhere in the conclusion.

[robinlynne]

30. The introduction. ten lines (paragraphs) down. I am helping organize an election boycott.

I am an election protection advocate. I agree with the criticism of th4e Dem p[arty. the solution is to get out and vote in huge numbers, vote within the Dem Party for more progressive candidates, go door to door to get them elected, watch the vote counts in your precinct and COunty, etc. in other words participate MORE in elections, not less.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

35. I think we are responding to different

posts?

I am confused.

[robinlynne]

37. The OP says DUers say this all the time, or something like that. My response is to that;

I'm saying we DUers say the Dmeocratic Party is not representing us well. That is true. I am one of the people who say that. BUT where i disagree with the Op wholeheartedly is: I believe the response needed is for the people to aprticipate more and more in the Dem {Party, tog et out there and vote in record numbers, to protct the vote, to fight for the candidates who Do represent the people. In toher words, I beleive the ONLY way out of this mess is to reformulate the Dem Party and get rid of the rightists in the Party. The OP suggests NOT VOTING (boycott the elction) as the way to make change.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

38. I did not

ever say anything about DUers saying anything all the time.

Your post is confusing.

sorry

[peacetalksforall]

17. I didn't see the words saying 'don't vote' - what I read said don't vote

for condidates who push war. Where should I read to see the words 'don't vote'.

I don't join much, even peace movements, because I can't afford all the money. But there are things being said in this that are said on DU all the time.

What are the most grevious things said in this e-mail? I will go back and read and edit this post if necessary.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

19. What does this say to you?

In the email it says:

"I'm helping organize an election boycott for November."

he is saying we should not vote.

[peacetalksforall]

23. See my post just below - I corrected myself.

[peacetalksforall]

21. Edited to add - yes, there is a sentence in the message that is a

request to show support for no war by getting a low turnout. I didn't see that before. That part is absurd.

What is implied here that the two Dem candidates are both pro-war.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we still don't know about Obama and where he will be when it's time to say whether we continue the ones we are in and/or start new ones.

I don't agree with this person for talking about low voter turnout. The higher the turnout the more Obama will know that he can't disappoint and endanger all the new voters - because without even saying it - you can safely assume that nearly all those new voters are not for war because they have seen what it means. After all, it isn't even a war - it's and occupying invasion for profit and control - for a few. And yes, every Dem who voted for it and continues to support it should be voted out.

The so-called war goes with the Patriot Act. We need to vote in Dems who don't, can't, won't support the freaking control tactic called the Patriot Ace which is an act of removing the Constitution.

[robinlynne]

33. It is the call of the message.

[robinlynne]

28. Participate in an election boycott means don't vote. That is what the email calls for.

That is exactly what the right wing would love the most. It makes it that much easier for them to keep power. (and to steal during elections) The more people who get out and vote, and if we verify the vote counts, the more our government will move to the left. Citizen participation is paramount!!!
Boycotting elections is the worst possible strategy. It guarantees right-wing power.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

29. That was my reaction

in a nutshell to the guy.

[Winterblues]

11. What "War" are they referring too?

Iraq is an "Occupation" not a "war" You don't win an occupation. The "war" on Terror is by definition unending. Terror has been among mankind since the beginning and will be until the end. The phrase "War On Terror" is meaningless.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

14. I always use

the word occupation.

always when talking about the occupation of Iraq ---

[electropop]

15. or genocide

[unpossibles]

18. I don't get people sometimes

why would anyone think that NOT voting will keep the same two parties out, if that is their beef? All that does is help the Republicans win.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

20. exactly

correct.

[Hydra]

22. I've always suggested that everyone vote

Even though it won't make a difference. The next resident of the WH has already been chosen.

It is precisely for that reason that everyone should vote- the sooner all of the pro-election, pro-work within the system people figure out that it's pointless, the sooner we can get around to tearing this government down and starting over.

I WANT people to see the futility of keeping this system, rather than having emails like these, or Ralph Nader as an excuse to "try again in 4 years."

[QueenOfCalifornia]

25. I have to say

I do not agree with you.

Pointless? Wont make a difference?

When and where?

Do you stop voting for the senate?

How about the local people, city council and the mayor?

I am not at the point where I think that holding elections is pointless.

I do think election reform is very necessary.

[Hydra]

27. The email is correct on that point at least

Most of the people in government right now were not elected to their positions, and have no reason to do what we ask of them.

Our Gov't is broken- it is the mouthpiece of the corporations, pretending to be "we the people"

The sooner everyone figures that out and realizes we have alternatives, the better.

[tomreedtoon]

34. It's called "vote suppression," children.

I'm surprised you didn't see it. They've already robbed black people and poor people of their votes, now they're trying the same thing on college-educated pacifists. "Get those damn hippies not to vote," Karl Rove said, "and McCain's got this thing all sewed up!"