How do you plan to observe "The Pill Kills Day"? It's coming up - June 7th!

[Iris]

Join young people across the country on Protest the Pill Day '08: The Pill Kills Babies on June 7 and witness outside of clinics that distribute this killing poison.



http://thepillkills.com/



Is there any question what the anti-abortion crowd's REAL intent is?

[jmowreader]

1. Just let 'em keep going

I clicked on the link. It claims that between the handing-down of Griswold and now, 324 MILLION "chemical abortions" took place in the United States. A "chemical abortion" is apparently any month that a woman taking the pill does not get pregnant, which is kind of silly when you consider there are months when women who use no BC whatsoever don't get pregnant.

Read that number again: 324 million.

Your average American, upon reading that number, would have one of two reactions:

REACTION 1: "OMG! We have got to BAN THE PILL RIGHT NOW to save all those precious babies!"

REACTION 2: "324 million abortions? Y'know, smoking crack may not be the right hobby for you."

[LeftyMom]

2. Yep, they said a number equivalent to the current US population was aborted

Now, maybe it's different where they live, but we don't have room for twice as many people in our schools, on our roads, etc. We don't have the water, either.

So even if that number were legit, it'd beat the hell out of the alternative.

[Iris]

4. Funny to me how they can't grasp the concept that if the gov't can force a woman to continue a

pregnancy, it can also force her to not have children - China anyone?

[LeftyMom]

6. Honestly, I think they're all for punishing and controlling women's sexuality

Which extreme isn't so important, as long as it's clear that even her body is not her own.

[Night_Nurse]

9. You said it! n/t

[blondeatlast]

13. Exactly, LM. They get brainwashed to think otherwise, but that's precisely the motivation. nt

[Triana]

37. Controlling women - THAT'S what it's about - period. n/t

[pink-o]

58. Absolutely!!!

I think it's easy to figure out if these idiot fundies were so concerned about the lives of children, they'd be out there changing the foster care system and making sure every child in America has health care. To me, that would be true "Christian Values".

But instead, they're hell-bent on making sure women are in a position of servitude, merely the vessel to house the next generation of men who will accomplish the desired goals.

But to go even further, I think ALL sexuality is controlled by the System. Straight men can only manifest their sexuality in a very narrow way--and the system exploits them by making them bottle up their emotions and erasing the line between sexuality and violence. Use that testosterone and frustration as fodder on either side of a gun barrel! And as for gay men, the reason there's so much homophobia has nothing to do the bible and everything to do with the economy. If you can't brainwash men into buying man-toy things, then they must be reviled as the worst traitors ever.

And women must feel fat and unattractive so they buy stuff to help their self-esteem. Listen, in a perfect world where everyone loved themselves and each other, where sexuality was part of an intimate act and not judged or shamed, then NO ONE would be buyin' what they're sellin' cuz no one would need "things" to make them feel better. So the System needs to control us--and women calling the shots on their own bodies JUST WON'T DO!!

[Iris]

63. Excellent post!

You've said so perfectly what I have often had so much trouble articulating!

[pink-o]

81. Thanx!!

:pals:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. They are

My grandmother and her friends were anti-abortion because they believed that a woman who "slept around" shouldn't be able to "get off scot-free."

[Raksha]

86. Pregnancy as punishment for "sin"

pretty much exposes the RW hypocrisy about babies as "blessings" for exactly what it is.

[lolly]

107. Not about saving babies, then, is it?

They don't want to save babies, they want to punish women.

Nothing like starting out life as punishment for your mother's sins! Let's bring back scarlet letters while we're at it.

[hyphenate]

77. Pretty much

accepted is male dominance and control over women. Much of the right is firm in their misogynistic view.

[Raksha]

85. I totally agree--it's what it's ALWAYS been about.

Why a woman controlling her OWN body and reproductive process is so damn threatening to them is something I'll never understand, but it's obvious that it is.

[RoseMead]

11. I choose door #2. n/t

[niyad]

3. I will probably observe it by making sure the nutbars who picket the local PP do NOT

get out of hand again.

[RedCappedBandit]

5. I'm gonna eat some pills

:evilgrin:

[LiberalFighter]

29. Will it count if guys take the pills too?

[RedCappedBandit]

34. Hope so, otherwise I'd be eating pills for nothin!

Then, I could eat some *other* pills..

:D

[jmowreader]

102. Be careful of eating those pills, dude

Those things are full of estrogen. You growing breasts and having your dick stop working is just a little more solidarity than we need right now. Yeah, they'll probably shrink back and your crank will get hard again, but why take the chance?

[Beaverhausen]

7. oh my god- their talking points. That is some crazy shit!

From the site:

"The birth control pill does not reduce the number of abortions. The only difference is that you are killing the baby earlier. It is estimated that over 70 million chemical abortions have taken place in the United States in the last 10 years alone. If you're single, abstinence is always your best choice. It isn't always easy, but it always works. By abstaining from sex, you eliminate the possibility of pregnancy and catching a sexually transmitted disease. What birth control has done for our society is turn little babies into disposable objects. Pregnancy is no longer seen as a blessing, but a curse.

Not only that but ... think about this! What happens when you get pregnant while being on the pill? Will you see this new baby as a problem? If a child is conceived at the wrong time or is unplanned, will abortion be seen as your "only option"? After all, the pill is taken to avoid babies; so, when an "accident" happens, will you want to solve the problem by killing the baby?"

[Iris]

10. their logic gives me a headache - if you get pregnant while on the pill, you will see the baby as a

"problem" but if you get pregnant because you don't use birth control, it is a blessing!

[LiberalFighter]

30. How many pregnancies will those women accept before they consider it a curse?

Will they accept being pregnant 15 or more times and be 100% happy with it?

[Iris]

47. I guess if they're brainwashed enough.

But more than likely, they will not.

[femrap]

57. Holy shit...I hadn't heard

about this.

Their REAL intent, IMHO, is to oppress women....making them nothing more than broodmares. Now if some women enjoy that role, so be it. But other women want to control their destinies. They use the Bible as their 'proof.' After all a female isn't a woman unless she is a mother, right?:sarcasm: Their smugness is :puke:

[Iris]

64. I agree - if someone wants this for herself, she should go for it.

But usually when people insist others do what they do, it's because they really aren't all that happy with their choices and they want to spread the misery.

[Pharlo]

21. One tiny little flaw in their logic...

One could also say "Abstinence does not reduce the number of abortions. The only difference is that you are killing the baby earlier."

I think they missed the condom add in there too: "By using a condom, you eliminate the possibility of pregnancy and catching a sexually transmitted disease."

(Granted, condoms may fail on occasion, but I think their success rate exceeds that of young people remaining celibate.)

They really need to spend a bit more time working on the logic behind their propaganda.

[MisterP]

31. you mean that the success rate exceeds that of young people TOLD TO BE celibate

not actually remaining celibate

[Raksha]

88. Answer to a stupid question: NO!

And not just NO, but HELL NO!

Stupid question(s): What happens when you get pregnant while being on the pill? Will you see this new baby as a problem? If a child is conceived at the wrong time or is unplanned, will abortion be seen as your "only option"? After all, the pill is taken to avoid babies; so, when an "accident" happens, will you want to solve the problem by killing the baby?"

I had two pregnancies, one unplanned, and two healthy children, both wanted by the time they were born. It's obvious that they think most women are idiots, moral and otherwise.

[Fox Mulder]

8. I'm going to pass out pills to those dumbass protesters.

I don't want them procreating.

[blondeatlast]

14. You can conveniently fit an entire month's worth in a Snickers bar.

Not that I'd ever suggest something that would endanger the utter health hypocrisy of others (from one who took the Pill to keep from having monthly transfusions; not at all joking, either).

:evilgrin:

[Retrograde]

32. pass out condoms

If an egg is never fertilized it's never a human, right?

[Iris]

48. I like it!

[Bettie]

12. Man there are some dumb people out there....

And sadly, I am related to a scary number of them!

I hate it when people can't accept that each person is responsible for his or her own body!!!!

Of course, you don't hear them say that Masturbation is Murder....yet. They just feel this strong need to control what women do.

Again, I wonder what the hell is wrong with these people?

[Iris]

15. well, I'm sure they would not be too pleased with female masturbation

not sure about the guys, though. That would be an awful lot of seed lost.

[Bettie]

17. They're not too pleased about anything

that brings women pleasure! Unless it's motherhood!

That said, I have two boys of my own and am pregnant with an unexpected, but welcome third child. It is hard for them (the in-laws) to understand that I believe strongly in the right of each and every human to be in charge of their own body and decision making processes! They seem to think that reproducing has caused me to become one of them!

Ah well, they are disabused of that notion each and every time they start a conversation about such topics with me.

Then my dearest love drags me away so I don't make his sisters cry (again).

[Iris]

49. you make them cry?

Too funny!

[Bettie]

62. They hate facts and I generally have them on hand

And it makes them angry. They then call DH the next day (in tears) and ask that he "control his wife" better.

We've been married 19 years, you'd think they'd get that he doesn't 'control' me at all and doesn't want to!

But we have come to a comprimise...for Christmas, if anyone brings up politics I repeat the following:

"I'm sorry, but due to social concerns, I will not discuss politics with anyone to whom I am even peripherally related until after the holidays."

I use that on my freeper brothers too and it works pretty well. If they persist, I bring out my folder full of dates and quotes and they usually back off afterward!

[Iris]

65. ha! ha! Well, you seem to be doing just fine on your own, but consider yourself supported by me!

You're never alone in this battle!

[lame54]

16. I'm gonna have an abortion

[madeline_con]

42. Be careful they don't damage your vehicle when you

arrive at the clinic. :rofl:

[blondeatlast]

18. "Cosmopolitans and Curettage" at my house, girls!

Bring your own towels, please.

[Firespirit]

19. So their problem apparently isn't with taking the pill, but with

taking the pill and having heterosexual sex.

Some women, including teenage girls, get the pill prescribed for hormonal reasons. So I guess if you have a hormone deficiency that requires the pill as a treatment, you'd better hope you're a lesbian because otherwise you might accidentally have a "chemical abortion"... except oh wait, lesbians are eeevil as well. Amend that, if you need the pill for a hormone treatment, you're screwed. Or, I guess, not screwed.

But yes, it's obvious what their intent is. What with Generation Y and younger being 66% against their little bigoted "issues," they realize their time is soon over unless they breed like rabbits.

[blondeatlast]

24. After my son was born, I took it to keep from having to be transfused every 4 weeks.

Apparently, I'm a serial murderer. :shrug:

[jmowreader]

33. Even if you're a lesbian, The Pill = chemical abortion to them

I believe the way they got to this number was by finding out how many bc pills were sold in the US then dividing by 30. (Or 28, the number of days in a complete cycle, or 21, the actual number of pills in each cycle that have hormones in them. Anyway, they used a number.) This number is the exact number of pregnancies that could have happened if no one was on the pill...of course, there's no such thing as a miscarriage or a zygote that refuses to implant in the uterine wall. And no woman that wasn't on the pill ever decided she just didn't feel like having sex on the day of the month she could get pregnant. Oh yeah...no woman ever took the pill to regularize her cycle.

I should sign up for a free webpage and put up a memorial to all the babies that were aborted because the women who should have been their mothers didn't feel like having sex on the night they would have been conceived. Whatcha think--Selfish Abortion or Neglectful Abortion? Page Two on the site, of course, will be a memorial to Limp Abortions--the potential father couldn't get it up that night.

[Iris]

50. I think Neglectufl Abortion is good - or Abortion through Neglect

[momster]

70. Call it "Headache Abortion"

Not tonight, honey...

[Scooter24]

20. I'm going to take some Vioxx

and hope for the best!

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Does it amaze anyone else that we've really come to this?

Think of it... it's astounding, really.

[Iris]

51. yes. It amazes me. That's why I posted this in the first place!

Actually, it's the 2nd time I posted it. I put it in the Choice forum a few weeks ago.

It really makes my stomach sink when I see this stuff and I'm closer to menopause than not.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. me too, Iris.

It's wild what extremes society is willing to go to in controlling women's bodies. As if it's anyone's business but the woman's?

[Iris]

66. I know, I know! But, really, controlling women's bodies automatically controls women.

I wonder how these people think the world could be any worse if women were actually allowed to control their destinies, not just here, but all over the world?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Wait a sec. Wait a goddamn fucking sec. They're protesting CONTRACEPTIVES?

HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT! :mad:

[grannylib]

36. That's been their ultimate goal all along. Sex is baaaad, mmmkay?

They "think" (if one can call it that) if contraception is outlawed, unmarried people won't have sex anymore. Riiiight. Or if they DO, and a pregnancy occurs, they'll do the "moral" thing and get married and then we can all pretend it's just hunky-dory, because at least the superficial appearances have been kept up. That's all that matters to these clueless morans.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. I think it's deeper and more nefarious than that, Granny

I think it's purely about the fear of women controlling their own lives. Once they can control their reproductive choices, women can make all sorts of new choices in their lives: compete in the workplace, in government, heck, even in the pulpit. It blows away the perception these freaks need of men as the superior gender. It frees women from their collective yoke. And that frightens them.

[Iris]

67. yes - remember about 15 years ago when there was a case in front of the Supreme Court

where a company wanted to restrict women of child-bearing age from working on certain jobs, whether they were pregnant, intending to become pregnant, or not. :scared:

[jmowreader]

83. That was the Johnson Controls case, right?

For those who don't remember: There are two American manufacturers of lead-acid batteries: Exide and Johnson Controls. Johnson Controls makes most of them. (Exide makes Wal-Mart's batteries; JC makes pretty much everyone else's.) It is known in the battery industry that women who made batteries have a lot of birth defects due to the extreme amounts of lead you're exposed to when you do it. To protect themselves against birth defects lawsuits, they made a company policy that the only way a woman of childbearing age could work in the battery plant was if she had been sterilized. Some women got the surgery, others filed suit. The suit got the policy overturned.

My opinion: Johnson Controls makes a vast number of things, so the logical solution would have been to offer these women employment with the company making something else, at the same rate of pay a battery builder would get. I may not be totally "up" on women's rights and all those noble things, but for the life of me I cannot fathom the concept of opening a class-action lawsuit to force a company to let me work in a fucking lead foundry. All that airborne lead will shorten your life and make you stupid while it's killing you.

[Iris]

94. but for people who don't have a choice

It's similar to the case that they made a movie out of - the one Charlize Theron starred in. The women were fighting to work in a coal mine for god's sake, but the reality of their situation is that those were the only jobs in their area that would allow them to make enough money to support themselves and their families. Which is how all this is related to reproductive rights - it's about economic freedom as much as anything.

[jmowreader]

101. Except that in the battery business, not all jobs involve airborne lead exposure

Also, Johnson Controls makes a lot of things besides batteries. But I'm sitting here thinking of all the things you'd have to do to make a battery--receive raw ingredients, make cases, make acid, make the lead components, assemble the cases, acid and lead into batteries, package the batteries, warehouse them and ship them--and only a couple of those things involve handling airborne lead. (Factories that make things with castings in them tend to put the foundry away from the rest of the plant due to the elevated fire risk in a foundry--the logic is if the foundry burns down it won't take the rest of the company up with it.) In a coal mine, they might have a thousand workers who enter the mine against a couple who don't.

I think they could have come up with a plan that gave women the opportunity for good employment without risking fetal abnormality caused by lead founding.

[Iris]

105. There's no way. Equal pay for unequal work (risk)?

And it's the woman's decision to make regarding how much risk she'll take for a job.

[grannylib]

71. Yes, you're right. That's the ultimate - put women back into a position

of weakness and subservience...it's the Christian thing to do, right?
Riiiiiiight.

[frickaline]

41. Also, they protest the pill because can be used as the morning after pill

its simply a higher dosage of the same drug used for birth control. Of course they are completely ignoring all the other possible medical uses of the pill ranging from cycle control to breast cancer treatment. But heck, why not lump it all together!

[JerseygirlCT]

54. yes, on the fraudulent claim that BCPs cause abortions

They can't even be bothered with *facts*. Any tool they can concoct to keep women's bodies out of women's control...

[Yavin4]

25. There's One Fool Proof Way That Women Can Have Sex Without Risking Pregnancy

Just have lesbian sex. So, their position should be abstinence or Lesbian sex.

[Indenturedebtor]

26. Yes or anal sex. Personally I'm going to march around with a diorama

I'm going to build a big paper machet diorama illustrating proper anal/oral/lesbian sex. You have to offer people alternatives ya know :eyes:

Wouldn't it be great to show up at one of these with a giant buttsex model? heheheheheh

[cliffordu]

44. LOL

:rofl:

[LeftyMom]

35. Hetero oral is fine as well. I expect to see "Blowjobs for Jesus" counterprotestors.

Pamphlets about how oral is the natural abstinence alternative, etc. Have fun!

[Indenturedebtor]

46. Hahaha and with training seminars provided :P Free of charge n/t

[Yavin4]

79. So, Let's Review

Women have the following sex choices which does not result in a pregnancy:

Lesbian Sex
Anal Sex
Oral Sex
And various combinations of the above

[Oeditpus Rex]

27. Preventing ovulation = 'killing babies'

One is forced to conclude that these people believe conception occurs when a man looks at boobs.

[mcg]

84. Abstinence also prevents conception, so does it "kill babies"?

I don't see them protesting abstinence.

[KamaAina]

28. With a mortar and pestle

daggone pills! :grr:

[beac]

38. dupe

dupe

[beac]

39. Aided and abetted by her evil partner in crime....

THE CONDOM!




Oh sure, he may look like a jolly likeable fellow, but he's lying in wait to confuse your "seed" with his impenetrable latex walls and then consign that fruit of your loins wither pitifully in the bathroom trashcan.

The Hounds of Hell are upon us!!!! Oh wait, that's just the family dog digging in the wastebasket again. Bad Fido!

[Iris]

52. hee! hee!

good one!

[madeline_con]

40. Check out their talking points

http://thepillkills.com/points.html :eyes:

[mcg]

90. "if ... a new human person is created"

From their taking points:

Q: How does the pill work?
A: The birth control pill and similar birth control products work in a woman's body in one of three ways: It can prevent ovulation and it can obstruct sperm from reaching the egg (prevent fertilization) by thickening the cervical mucus. However, if both of these methods fail and a new human person is created, the pill and other contraceptives can stop a tiny child's implantation in his/her mother's womb because the pill irritates the lining of the uterus so that the tiny baby boy or baby girl cannot attach to the lining of the uterus and the newly formed human person is aborted and dies. This is called a chemical abortion.
...
Q: How do you know when life begins?
A: It is a proven, scientific fact that when the human egg and human sperm unite, fertilization occurs and a new human being is created.

So they are claiming that
1) the pill in some cases might not prevent fertilization but might prevent implantation
2) a fertilized egg, even before implantation = a human person, a human being,
that this is a baby:


Human zygote prior to implantation in uterine wall

http://www.prochoicecolorado.org/ballotwatch.shtml

Well...
1) The case of the pill not preventing fertilization but preventing implantation has not been proven to exist. It either never or rarely occurs.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_oral_contraceptive_pill#Effectiveness

Other secondary mechanisms have been hypothesized. One example is endometrial effects that prevent implantation of an embryo in the uterus. Pro-life groups consider such a mechanism to be abortifacient, and the existence of postfertilization mechanisms is a controversial topic. Some scientists point out that the possibility of fertilization during COCP use is very small. From this, they conclude that endometrial changes are unlikely to play an important role, if any, in the observed effectiveness of COCPs.<60> Others make more complex arguments against the existence of these mechanisms <61>, while yet other scientists argue the existing data supports such mechanisms.<62> The controversy is currently unresolved.

2) They are taking one definition of "human being" and equating it with others. They are claiming there is no difference between a zygote and a baby. I think most people would see a huge difference between a zygote and a baby.

[Iris]

95. I believe the medical community sees a big difference -I think they define the start of pregnany as

occurring after implantation, not as a zygote is floating about in fallopian tubes.

[mcg]

99. Is breastfeeding a method of abortion?

Here's a thorny problem for the anti-contraception folks...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_pregnancy_controversy

Breastfeeding greatly suppresses ovulation, but eventually an ovum is released. Luteal phase defect, caused by breastfeeding, makes the uterine lining hostile to implantation and as such may prevent implantation after fertilization.

Regarding the "principle of double effect", a question I would pose for someone opposed to abortion / contraception: What about a family living in poverty who already have five kids?

Another question: Why should a fertilized egg be considered a human being? If they say, because it's in the Bible, well, no, it isn't. There nothing in the Bible about 'fertilized egg'.

From reading the article, it looks to me that most of the medical community considers abortion to start at implantation.

Some interesting commentary about the Colorado Human Life Amendment that would define personhood as a fertilized egg...
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/reproductivejustice/78063

[Iris]

104. oh, good question.

Very good. If our bodies are divinely designed to behave this way, then why would it be wrong for us to help it along?

[Withywindle]

43. I'm going to start a new business - meaningful Christian burials for tampons.

Every month, millions of women commit "attrition abortion." Surely there are women who've been "born again" and repent their terrible sin, and want to memorialize their little lost angels. (Sanitary pads have "wings" in a little-understood allusion to this.)

[uppityperson]

45. Sanitary pad wings, omg.

rolling on the floor here. Thank you.

[Withywindle]

92. Remember, every time you don't get pregnant

a Kotex gets its wings. O8)

Or God kills a bunny-shaped vibrator. Or something.

[Withywindle]

93. You laugh now.

But your uterus is weeping with grief.

[blondeatlast]

82. Oh, geez--LOL!

My stomach hurts... :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Withywindle]

111. Careful.

You could be dislodging someone and never know it.

:scared:

[femrap]

56. Holy shit...I hadn't heard

about this.

Their REAL intent, IMHO, is to oppress women....making them nothing more than broodmares. Now if some women enjoy that role, so be it. But other women want to control their destinies.

[lolly]

108. Absolutely

And of course, the second phase of this punishment/control is to re-stigmatize "illegitimate" birth.

Gingrich made a stab at this, suggesting that we return to the days of shaming unwed mothers (and, by extension, their children).

[femrap]

110. But never shaming the male who takes

NO responsibility for his actions. These same males will say that 'It's my nature. I can't help it.' And yet these same males are the leaders of our businesses, organizations, and countries. Doesn't seem logical. On the one hand, they say they are ruled by animal instincts and on the other, they say they are the only ones qualified to rule.

I truly believe that our dear planet is dying because it can't take the lunacy any longer.

[slackmaster]

59. Those folks don't think our traffic jams, global food shortages, etc. are bad enough yet

Imagine this country with twice as many people.

On second thought, don't.

[The Diest]

74. Yeah. Idiots. Just freakin idiots.nt

[mcg]

100. global warming will cause the greatest abortion of life in human history,

why are so many "pro-lifers" against doing something about global warming? I fear that all we can do now is lessen the impact, but we at least should do that, so it won't be as bad as it could be. With global warming, we're talking about a VERY long term reduction in the life sustaining capacity of the Earth, and a large percentage of species gone, forever.

[windoe]

60. The pill allows women to be free

to be students, artists, poets, explorers, astronauts, paleontologists, olympic athletes, biologists, presidents--or just free--

AND not worry about a man making us pregnant against our wishes, whether it be consensual or non consensual sex.

Why oh why has this simple argument faded away, while the crazy idea that women are made for mens purposes has taken over?

Male dominance is WAY more deadly than abortion and contraception combined, only these are not spiritual potential virtual imaginary babies, these are real starving, neglected, abused ones, while little girls with underdeveloped pelvises are torn apart giving birth, and emergency rooms are filled with women who have attempted to free themselves.

The pill and contraception are forces of non violence and humanitarian aids, not the other way around.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but WTF happened to these arguments--

I guess along with all the other Orwellian a**backwards concepts like 'war is peace' and 'ignorance is strength' is 'Womens freedom is evil'

The progressives need a strong message to counter the 'Pill is deadly' misinformation before it does any more damage.

I emailed this response to them, with the additional
The pill saves lives by avoiding famine, overpopulation, ecological catastrophe, rape and abuse, all the while giving women freedom--apparently all bad things.:) (smiley for DU only)

[Iris]

69. Even if you are preaching to the choir, we need to remind ourselves of all of this.

I've buried my head in the sand for the past few years, but I just can't keep doing it any longer.

[PeaceNikki]

68. To put women in their "biblical place" of submisiveness.

Assholes.

[AngryOldDem]

72. This is sponsored by the American Life League

http://www.all.org/

You talk about rabid....this group has it.

[windoe]

73. Shame is a very potent poison.

Early in life we learn there are 2 kinds of women, the good obedient traditional woman and the 'other' kind. The 'other' kind is the one that is non traditional, she does not wish to create children, she wants to create in other ways. Paternalistic society only has room for the childbearing type and has demonized the other type woman. These two archetypes, of the good woman and bad woman, have deep roots that even progressives are triggered by. Naturally women can have children and be very creative, but this isn't the issue here.

It is that the discussion has been framed in a shaming way, that women who have exercised their freedom are the bad types, and they deserve all the pain, that they should be afraid of men since men cannot be expected to control themselves, and mostly by killing potential virtual babies it is murder.
This is not an easy battlefront to face, and I believe that it cannot be taken on directly, but by education and teaching women to think in another way about the situation. If education is in place, like it was before, women who inevitably get pregnant will know what to do, and where to go for help.
The ones who believe differently are free to believe what they wish.

We are not in a free society if the traditional model is the only acceptable one, and by banning contraception we will become a third world country.

[Iris]

96. "We are not in a free society if the traditional model is the only acceptable one"

a profound statement, indeed

[lolly]

109. Well . . .

I would agree that society needs to be open to all possibilities for women, but why assume creativity and childbearing are mutually exclusive?

On some levels, that could even reproduce the paternalistic boundaries women are breaking free from--you are ALLOWED to be a mother or a poet/author/painter/etc., but you aren't ALLOWED to be both.

This isn't new--in earlier eras, the very few women who were granted access to the creative arena were celibate--nuns or self-cloistered women.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

75. Personally ironic-

That's my birthday. :evilgrin:

[hyphenate]

76. Simply not acknowledging these assholes

is the best way to observe such a ludicrous meme. Although, I wonder: perhaps we should gather the names of doctors who have been murdered over the years by these crazy sons of bitches, and plan a memorial to them. Someone can research the names, and someone who is good with Powerpoint or similar, can make our own Youtube film out of it.

And we could plan the music to make sure it is based on TRUE religious belief, not what these fuckers practice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

89. Dr. David Gunn, Dr. Barnett Slepian.

Those are the two I remember.

Don't forget the clinic escort volunteer killed at the same time as Dr. David Gunn.


Requiescat in Pace.

[Iris]

97. I feel like the fact that we haven't been ackowledging them is the dangerous.

I don't think they're going to go away any time soon.

[Patsy Stone]

78. Thanks for reminding me

to call in a refill on that prescription.

[AZBlue]

80. Refill my prescription for the pill?

[Heywood J]

87. Watching women on the pill get AIDS, according to the talking points.

I guess that applies to otherwise-celibate women who take it for acne and cycle problems too. Divine AIDS acquisition and all...

[OmahaBlueDog]

91. I agree banning the pill is their intent; they won't win

Big pharma makes too much money on those little pill packages -- and the Pill has been a big part of making the modern workplace possible (whether we want to admit that or not)

[Iris]

98. good point. Puts things in perspective!

[Rosemary2205]

103. Menstruation makes the baby Jesus cry.

i think that's in leviticus somewhere.

:crazy:

[SocratesInSpirit]

106. This kind of crap really pisses me off...

I am on a medication that causes birth defects. Therefore, preventing pregnancy is of the utmost importance (and I'm married, so I don't plan on practicing abstinence, that's for damn sure). If these people don't want to take the pill, they don't have to. No one's forcing them to. But they have no right to force their wrongheaded b.s. on the rest of us. As far as I'm concerned, they can take their judgmental holier-than-thou assholery and go shove themselves.

Edit: I want to clarify that I believe all women, married or not, medical issues or not, have the right to have access to safe, affordable birth control. It is not for these fundy prudes to decide what control a woman has over her own goddamn body!