Composting... need help/advice for starting.

[PeaceNikki]

I posted this in the Lounge and the Gardening Group as well. Sorry for "spamming", but I am hoping there are some experts to help me get started.

I want to start (I have a bucket going of kitchen scraps already). But, I need to do it cheap (or free) and I haven't a lot of space. Commercial compost bins are expensive and I haven't the carpentry skills or equipment to build. I've seen sites talk about using plastic bins and wire bins. One site has an image that gave me an idea:



The wire bin reminded me of an used critter cage I have:


Will this work or should I explore plastic bin options? In either case, what tips/tricks/suggestions do you have for a total newbie?

[havocmom]

1. If you have space for an out of the way pile, that will work.

Turn it often, good rake or pitch fork will work, depending on how much and what all is in your pile. Toss water on it from time to time. Keep turning and it will break down.

There are commercial products available to acceleration the process of decomposing the organic materials, OR, if you have a bunny or know someone with sheep...

[PeaceNikki]

2. I really don't have the space for an out of the way pile.

I am in a 4-unit condo. I have some private garden space so I think I'll need a container.

[laylah]

24. I just took a bit of chicken wire and some

stakes to make a circle. I would start with shredded newspaper then your scraps. Alternate with green (grass clippings, non-noxious weeds/plants), etc. Later, "brown", as in leaves. I add shredded newspapers about 2x year. You can also buy redworms to help accelerate the process. Good luck!

[PeaceNikki]

6. OK, can we talk contents?

I have kitchen scraps:
Some salad that is too wilted for consumption
Watermelon rind
Egg shells
Coffee grinds

I will add grass clippings and other yard scraps... but what else? I know no bunnies or sheep. I have a dog and a cat and I know their poop is no good for this. I might be able to talk to some local farmers about getting some cow manure... but how much?

Are the commercial products for acceleration expensive?

[havocmom]

13. Also, make sure your pile is secure from rodents. And NO meat scraps

or any animal parts. I used to run all my vegetable trimmings through a food processor when I had a very small yard and very small compost heap. Ends off onions, trimmings off celery, beets, and so on.

Haven't priced the commercial accelerants but you could probably research some online. Personally, I am getting interested in mushrooms as a help to building up soils. There was a great post here about a 'shroom expert's lecture on the 6 ways mushrooms could save the earth. I will try to dig up that video link for you, it is really fascinating.

Also, if you have a County Extension Agent, they usually have lots of info and sources for more to offer. They may even offer classes for various gardening practices. Check places where there are public meetings in your area (libraries are a great place to start) and see if there are local gardening clubs to help you get info and local advice for your specific conditions.

A little manure goes a long way to speed up the process. Again, depends on the volume of mass you are composting. Sometimes it is good to have several piles. Start one and as the process takes off there, let it work and put newer materials in their own pile. Again, volume tends to be the major consideration.

Do remember, if you get manure from a farmer, cows and horses ingest seeds. There will be some weeds involved but once they sprout, you turn the pile and expose roots to the air and they will die off. If you can find someone with well composted manure, there is less stink and a little less weeds. Also consider any riding stables or boarding stables in your area. Some fair grounds also stable horses for people, so that may be a place you can get some manure from. A plastic tub or trash bin with good lid is all the investment you really need if you want to get manure. There are ALWAYS people looking to get rid of the stuff. Just don't use a whole lot unless it is well composted (three years is good).

You are about to embark on a great project. It will be fun. Consider it all as experiments and don't be discouraged when something doesn't work. Tweak what almost works and enjoy the adventure! I'll look for the mushroom link and be back soon.

[havocmom]

15. Here' s that link re mushrooms & saving the planet

Not really about what you asked, but interesting to keep in the back of your mind as you expand your gardening. Some good biology basics re how soil got started in the first place and some real good stuff about mushrooms for cleaning up toxin and even fighting bug infestations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI5frPV58tY

[Trillo]

22. I used to think that about meat as well, but it seems its not true.

...(Low nitrogen would generally not be a problem for a pile containing meat)...

http://ecm.ncms.org/ERI/Meat/howtocompost.htm

[Blue_In_AK]

35. You have to have some dry stuff in there.

Dried leaves are wonderful. We always rake ours up in the spring and then start adding grass clippings when we mow and the kitchen scraps.

[NuttyFluffers]

37. the no-no contents are just for beginner composting

most people cannot stand the smell and do not know how to handle potentially parasitic or infested soil. but everything composts. if you honestly don't care about using the soil for gardening later -- and i really didn't -- you can just compost to break down garbage. if it's for a vegetable garden, yes, you want to be more mindful of what goes in.

newspaper, cardboard, leaves, tissues, old bread, etc. are very easy for starting composts. since beginners worry about the types of fungi and worms in the new soils, because they plan on using them on their own gardens, keep it relatively free of most questionable animal poop. purchased accelerants therefore makes sense if you *really care*, otherwise it's rather a waste of time and money -- it's going to rot anyway.

for a local variety of fungi and microbes, y'know, keeping it local, grab a handful of local soil and throw it in. let them show you what's their favorite foods. whatever decomposes fastest is their favorite.

this really isn't supposed to be an "investment" project, it literally is dirt cheap. it's just a means to get rid of some garbage and, if you're particular, cultivate some garden soil. since i didn't care about local weeds, because i don't really see local grass plants as "weeds," i didn't even worry at all about getting the compost to certain temperatures to kill off weed seeds. though i didn't like smelly compost, a few meat and dairy scraps didn't bother me as long as it was well buried. the spiders and other creepy crawlies attracted by flies (meat and fruit) were interesting enough to warrant inclusion and neglect. watch an ecosystem explode in your backyard!

but you're in a condo, so keep it isolated to vegetable (cellulose) matter until you're ready for more advance techniques.

[Terry in Austin]

39. Friendly contents

You can produce great compost without any manure at all -- and the neighbors will be grateful!

Contents are just a mixture of nitrogen-rich stuff ("green") and carbon-rich stuff ("brown"). Manure is a source of green, but so are grass clippings and kitchen scraps. A good source of brown is dead leaves. All you need for good compost is a mix of brown and green, about a two-to-one ratio of brown to green (although the brown can be a lot higher and still work fine). Keep a little pile of finished compost or dirt nearby to cover new additions of kitchen scraps -- discourages the flies and other unwelcome visitors.

From what I've read, accelerator products are mostly a waste of time and money. A few shovelsful of dirt from the garden should supply enough microbes to get the pile started -- it worked fine for me. To start, build the pile in thin alternating layers of green and brown, with the dirt sprinkled in. The micro-critters are easy to please, and when they're happy, they get right to work! It'll get up to temperature in a day or two.

After that, just keep the pile damp (not wet), and well-fed with additions of material, turning it when the temperature goes back down (see my post down-thread).

[alfredo]

27. High nitrogen plant food might do that. What do microbes eat?

Find out and add that. Add soil, worms, and manure. Manure is not good for carrots. It will cause deformation.

[Saturday]

3. I think that would make a great composter.

Just keep turning it as the other poster said.

[Aloha Spirit]

4. In my experience, it's better to have something with no bottom, that sits directly on the ground so

that there's more circulation and so worms can get to it. Otherwise, the bottom can get really slimy.

Here's somewhere you can start
http://environment.gov.ab.ca/edu/activities/compost/WhyCompost.htm

[RainDog]

5. yes, that will work

you can simply get a big black plastic trash bag, even, to use as a compost bin, tho your choice is better for the aerating part.

yours will compost slower b/c it won't get as hot, but you can simply put a black plastic trash bag over the entire bin to create heat.

[NNN0LHI]

7. One word ... Termites

Keep that thing as far away from your house as possible.

Unfortunately that still may not be enough to keep the buggers away.

Don

[PeaceNikki]

8. Ooohh.. good to know!

Would a plastic container be better to avoid this?

[NNN0LHI]

9. Think it has to have air to work correctly

I don't know if there are any termite resistant systems out there?

Don

[LWolf]

10. The cheap way:

Pick a spot on the ground that is not next to a building.

Layer your pile. Turn it with a pitchfork every week. No container necessary.

Another cheap way, but takes longer and doesn't kill all the weed seeds:

Dig a pit. Fill it, cover it, come back next year to uncover it and use the compost. Start a new batch in the same pit.

Even easier:

Do sheet composting. Spread your ingredients on the garden in the fall and leave them for the winter. Or till them in and leave them for the winter.

Try lasagna gardening: http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm

If you really want container composting, go get a plastic storage tub (not clear.) Drill some holes in the bottom and on the side. Shred a bunch of newspaper, soak it with water, and wring it out. Place it in the tub. Add a bunch of red worms. Bury your kitchen scraps in a different location in the tub every day. After about 3 months, start a new bin. Move the worms into the new bin, and the worm compost into the garden:

http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/worms/neighborhood/index.html

[PeaceNikki]

11. I am in a 4-unit condo, so next to the building is my only "personal space"

I think I need to use a container, but I am a bit nervous now because of the other post RE: termites. :(

[LWolf]

29. Try a worm box.

It can be kept inside or on a patio. No termite problem.

What will you use the compost for?

[PeaceNikki]

31. Thanks, I am doing just that.

Just returned from the bait shop and I have 2 containers. I am doing this:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/Easywormbin.htm

I'll be using it for my landscaping and flower beds and maybe giving to friends/family depending on the yield.

[LWolf]

33. When I taught 2nd and 3rd graders,

about 6 years ago, I use to keep a box just like that in my classroom. We started a fresh box in September and kept it going all year. I had an indoor garden; we grew salad greens, miniature tomatoes, green onions, flowers, and other things that could thrive in containers under lights. Both the garden and the worm bin gave us plenty of opportunities for integrated science, math, writing, and reading. The garden looked something like this:

[PeaceNikki]

17. Where does one procure red worms?

:shrug:

[havocmom]

19. most garden supply places, many nuseraries have worms and bugs that are good to have around

And if you can't find the, again, consult your County Extension Office.

[PeaceNikki]

21. Thanks! I found a nature center in the area run by the county that is running a workshop

on June 14.


:toast:

[havocmom]

23. PERFECT! You will have fun and become obsessed!

Eventually, you will be looking to start community gardens and/or get a local elementary school to put in a small garden as a means of teaching kids natural sciences AND letting them discover that they do not have to accept the way things are, they can work hard and make wonderful changes, then eat some good produce!

[LWolf]

28. There are many sources on the web.

I've never lived anywhere near a worm supplier, so I've always bought them online. The worms you want for your worm box are the variety that lives near the soil surface, which means that they aren't out in my yard; our soil freezes too deep in the winter.

Here is one source: http://www.planetnatural.com/site/red-wiggler-worms.html

[PeaceNikki]

30. I am in the middle of "Lake Country". Thankfully a quick trip to a local bait shop did the trick!

:)

[conscious evolution]

40. Bait shops

[onethatcares]

12. 32 gal trash can, plastic is better than steel

drill 3/4 to 1 inch holes around the thing starting about 6 inches up from the bottom and about 6 inches apart,
put some holes in the bottom for drainage too, about every 4 to 6 inches up the sides stopping about 12 inches down from the top. add cardboard to your greens, don't overthink the thing, compost has been happening without help for a long time. turn it once in a while and don't allow it to get too wet (anaerobic) or it will smell a little bit. leave the lid on, or take the lid off. you could check out the gardenweb for more infor or go to the scmfroup to get more ideas. Remember, it all leads back to compost, even us :toast:

[PeaceNikki]

16. Is this safe near my house?

I am a little nervous based on the previous post about termites...

And... what's "scmfroup"?

[onethatcares]

18. yes, safe near your house,

usually you'll get pill bugs, sow bugs, some ants if it's not damp enough, worms and down here in floriduh we get palmetto bugs. they are a bunch of pooping poopers, which is what compost really is.

the scm froup is "soil compost mulch froup" it's a group of people that had a like mind(kinda like du) and got moved off of gardenweb due to some idiocy. if you go there, tell em Davest sent ya. They are good people.

[shraby]

14. Take some patio blocks, lay them out

in a rectangle or square as big as you want your compost area (these are to keep grass from growing up through it), then take cement blocks and build it as high as you want..mine is about 4 ft tall and will hold a ton of stuff. Then water it from time to time and it will compost..also if you find angle worms on the sidewalk after a warm rain, pick them up and toss them in. Mine is big enough to hold my grass clippings, all the garbage with no meat scraps and many of the leaves in the fall. About every couple of years we open one side and take the good dirt out of the bottom.

[Trillo]

20. Since you're in a condo, your options are more limited.

The best tool I've ever bought for helping with making compost was a chipper/shredder. I've seen smaller electric ones that don't take up too much room, and would be good for kitchen-scrap type ingredients.

Your used rodent litter in the bottom of the cage would make an excellent compost ingredient. Wood chips are high in carbon, more precisely, they have a high "C:N ratio".

Good luck on your compost studies.

[joe_sixpack]

25. For compost to heat up and decompose quicker

it's good to have a nice balance between dry brown and green. Green, like grass clippings, veggie scraps etc. provide the nitrogen and brown such as dried dead leaves, twigs, straw provide the carbon. Try to keep it close to 50/50 I've heard.

[librechik]

26. looks like the whole top comes off--that will be handy for stirring

that cage looks perfect for a small pile. Just put it in a corner of your yard. If you are using compost in a garden, you must find a space for your compost. it really doesn't smell that bad, IMO.

[Joanne98]

32. I came up with my own original idea. Two bed sheets sewn together

I'm putting my compost pile in it. When I want to turn it I just grab the ends with another person and roll it. I just started it. I'll post in gardening when I see how it works.

[NuttyFluffers]

36. if it's a natural fiber sheet it will develop holes.

eventually polyester will degrade too, but that takes much longer and is dependent upon what microbes are prominent in your region.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. I believe you have to have at least three cubic yards

of material to get it really going good. We built ours out of pallets several years ago. It's divided down the middle and we just shovel stuff back and forth from one side to the other. If you have dried leaves and grass clippings it'll practically catch on fire. I love turning my compost and watching the steam (or smoke, whatever it is) rise into the air.

[Terry in Austin]

38. Easy composting

I recently got started composting, and I'm getting good results pretty easily.

Container: Lots of ways to do this -- pallets, chicken wire, welded wire fencing, aka dog fencing (sorta like very coarse, heavy duty hardware cloth). The critter cage, however, would be too small (see below). Plastic containers might not aerate adequately.

I ended up using snow fencing (wired-together 4-ft. pine slats that comes in a 50-ft roll) and metal fence stakes at the corners ("U" bar). About all the tools you'll need are heavy-duty wire snips, pliers, and a hammer (and gloves!). The fencing is about $60 -- you'll have a lot left over, so maybe split it with another gardener friend. U-bars are about $5 each, although plain old wooden stakes would be fine, if they're pressure-treated.

It's convenient to make the front side of the bin removable in order to facilitate turning the compost. I have three bins, which also makes it easier to turn, as you can just fork the stuff from one bin into another, rather than in place. But these are non-essential refinements.

You do want to get about a cubic yard (3 ft x 3 ft x 3 ft.) in the bin in order to achieve "critical mass." Anything much less than that, and the microbes won't be able to get the pile up to processing temperature, which needs to be in the 100-120 degree (F) range. A long-stemmed compost thermometer (about $25) is highly recommended. After the pile cooks for several weeks, the temp goes down and it's ready to turn. A pitchfork works much better for this than a shovel.

Keep the pile damp, but not wet. A shady spot is preferable. Poking air holes in it helps -- I use a wooden stake from an old yard sign. Proportions for the mix can vary, but 2 parts "brown" to 1 part "green" works fine. You don't want more green than brown, though.

After several cook-and-turn cycles, it turns dark brown and starts smelling "earthy" -- it's ready to use then. You'll probably want to sift it before using -- hardware cloth stapled to a frame works nicely.

Happy composting!