Is it Possible??

[nels25]

Is the following possible??

1. Is it possible to really want and embrace the change that a more progressive leadership of this nation would bring without:

A. Being called some nasty names or having your intelligence brought into question because you would prefer to accomplish these changes without hate for it's own sake, in other words to turn the other cheek and get on with life??

B. Respecting a Republican for the service they have rendered their nation (think John McCain) without having to refer to them as Nazi's or some such other garbage, it is after all possible that men of good will can have a different outlook on the challenges facing the nation and still get along (example: Tip O'Neil and President Reagan, or on several occasions Senator Kennedy and Senator Hatch).

C. After the rancor and just plain outrage of the past almost 8 years that a republican can change and understand that what he believed up to now has been shown to be flimsy and therefore unworkable and therefor desire the change in direction that progressive leadership would represent??

D. If "C" is true than is it in turn possible that this person who wants to turn away from the GOP and support more progressive candidates can be welcomed without snide comments to the extent (that yes you were stupid but now you see the light, or yes for the time being we will take your vote, but do not get comfortable here because you are really not one of us, nor will we let you be because we were here first and have been proven to be right) in short is it possible for a person to learn from his mistakes and the mistakes he sees around him and change accordingly (before you answer may I present Senator Robert Byrd for your consideration, remember once he was a KKK member, for which he has made amends).

You may ask why I am posting this? And that is a fair request.

1. I have many GOP type friends and they have been my friends for years (several approaching 30 or more). I have them think seriously about the current state of the nation (got one to vote for Barack in the Wisconsin primary, told me it was the first time he ever voted for a Democrat in a primary).
I have urged them to read more progressive web sites. They come away from some feeling that although the points made by most posters are excellent, but if they were to join that they would be treated as a sort of quasi Quisling(sp).

Look they have had enough of GOP stupidity also, they are not stupid and they now when a new change of direction is required.

2. The other main reason I am making this lengthy post is that I have PTSD and am a disabled vet due to it (40% disabled, 17 plus years USN active duty). I am not stating this for sympathy or any other reason but to bring up the following fact that I know from personal experience.

Rage that you can reach out and touch on a 24/7 basis is dangerous and debilitating. It can and will make you sick. Left untreated or not dealt with it can put your life at risk, LITERALLY.
You may find stooping your life at your own hand makes sense (IF THIS EVER DOES HAPPEN SEEK HELP IMMEDIATELY) you may also put yourself at risk by taking rash actions while angry.

My last observation is as follows (and I thank you DU'ers for letting me make my lengthy point). I am seeing so much anger lately in a large number of posts and responses. The rage seems to ooze out of the computer. This troubles me, I fear for the people that are that angry, I wish for their life's to be positive and if possible prosperous. We need to all calm down. Please I am asking since I have been there and done that.

Let this Democratic party become the big tent that the Republicans only talk about (but do not actually mean). I believe that Hubert Humphrey and other earlier Democrats would be some what uneasy with the anger and rage that is more rampant than need be.

Lastly every time we as a party give into rage we tend to lose (remember 68).

Post comment: To Rush STUFF A SOCK IN IT WILL YOU.:hi:
:dem: :dem: :grouphug:

[0007]

1. To each his own! Jolly good luck.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I do boil with rage. I have since the fall of 2002, which to me was a bigger turning point than

9-11. The destruction of everything I believed in and the undoing of decades of progress by this unelected moron has caused me to question my own loyalty to this country. At present, I feel extremely helpless. There will be no way to set this country on the right path again. The corporations, money, and schemes have ended democracy as envisioned by the founding fathers. The ties between the 'players' to those who are supposed to represent the people and defend the Constitution are insurmountable for the 'common' American. I truly believe, at this point, the only solution for me, is to leave the USA. I have no desire to continue supporting via tax dollars the militant USA. It's claim of divine right to empire, in the name of freedom, is something I can no longer accept. I truly believe that anyone (see John McCain) who supports the continuation of the 'Bush Doctrine' and PNAC's objectives is a traitor to the country. I can logically see very little difference between the current USA and Germany of the 1930's and '40's.

I am brimming with anger because I feel I've lost my country. I detest the entire Bush administration for the vulgar, callous way they have treated the citizens of numerous countries and other living creatures of the earth, and their ideology.

[TooBigaTent]

3. Add any enablers to the list. Trying to make peace, or "reach out" as Obama wants

to do, is a sure path to defeat.

Progress will only be made by removing the cancer that is republicanism from the body of America. You do not compromise with the disease. You do not reason with it. You eradicate it or you die. That is the simple choice.

[nels25]

5. Perhaps but??

remove to much of that cancer or do so in a rushed or cavilier manner and you risk damaging other vital organs and/or killing the patient.

Also just out of curiosity just what do you mean by removing the republican cancer from the body america?

To reasonable people this could be taken as a threat.

Is this really how we want to conduct ourselves and to do the nations business.

I honestly and truly believe that we can win and govern as progressives due to the wonderful opening the GOP has blessed us with.

We can deal with this cancer, remember that the doctor is required to deal with the disease with out doing more harm to the patient then needed.

You forget that the so called enemy (Republican's) are also flesh and blood human beings.

I would rather govern in an effective manner when we are inpowered to do so next January so that the difference in approach and positive accomplishments make it obvious which side has the nations best future in its sight.

Some will not learn, so be it. Let them live in what peace they may.

As long as they violate no laws then I see now reason to pester them.

Those who have violated laws and can still be prosecuted for them should be (as Barack advocated last week).

But being spiteful about it will in the long run not do us all that much good.

Just my thoughts.

Live and be well today.:hi:

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Thanks for your concern. However, I'm 60 years old and can't share your rose-colored

glasses. As I stated before, Obama nor any other Democratic president will not be able to put the pieces back together. There are the corporatists that cannot be defeated. They, in turn, call for the militarism of the country to 'protect' their interests. America will never be back as the 'guys in the white hats'. Your liberties have been restricted and will be very hard to retrieve. Yes, the 'business of government' might return to some civility, but the country has been damaged beyond repair.

[TooBigaTent]

8. "remove to much of that cancer or do so in a rushed or cavilier manner..."

Sometimes it is necessary to amputate a limb to save the patient's life. We are in such a position now.

"Also just out of curiosity just what do you mean by removing the republican cancer from the body america?
To reasonable people this could be taken as a threat."

Not necessarily kill them, just prevent them from doing any more damage. By any means necessary. If that is a threat, so be it.

"Is this really how we want to conduct ourselves and to do the nations business."

Would you rather take the "high and might" road, to steal a term from another DUer and continue to lose what is left of American democracy?

"I honestly and truly believe that we can win and govern as progressives due to the wonderful opening the GOP has blessed us with."

Appealing to the logic and sense of those who have supported the obscenity of republicanism is illogical, and doomed to failure. We can govern as progressives after we win.

"We can deal with this cancer, remember that the doctor is required to deal with the disease with out doing more harm to the patient then needed."

Doing nothing will rsult in the most harm.

"You forget that the so called enemy (Republican's) are also flesh and blood human beings."

By the simple fact of their existence, they should be allowed to continue their reign of terror? Sorry, but I cannot accept that. They have forfeited any rights by their actions to destroy our democracy.

"I would rather govern in an effective manner when we are inpowered to do so next January so that the difference in approach and positive accomplishments make it obvious which side has the nations best future in its sight."

You are greatly overestimating the intelligence and generosity and selflessness of the American people. Your approach has worked so well in convincing the 29%ers that they are being screwed by the pukes, hasn't it?

"Some will not learn, so be it. Let them live in what peace they may."

I agree. Let them have a state or two, like Arizona and Nevada and leave the rest of America to people who will take care of it.

"As long as they violate no laws then I see now reason to pester them."

The law is always such a perfect blueprint for a successful and liberal society.

"Those who have violated laws and can still be prosecuted for them should be (as Barack advocated last week)."

If you believe that Obama will do any damn thing to hold the bushistas accountable, you are deluded. Has he pushed for impeachment? Has he done anything but enable the criminals to continue their rampage?

"But being spiteful about it will in the long run not do us all that much good."

Not being spiteful, just seeking justice. If there is a side-benefit of seeing them get what they deserve, that is bonus.

"Just my thoughts.
Live and be well today."

Much harder to do under repuke rule. I've been living under repuke/con rule for most of my (56-year) life and I am increasingly pessimistic that things will change in whatever is left of it. To quote Natalie, "I'm not ready to make nice. I'm not ready to back down."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. With malice towards none and charity towards all

Lincoln gives us a good example of what needs to be done to mend this nation after a time of great strife. He was interested in getting on with reconciliation because it was the best thing to do for the sake of the country. The Radical Republicans were bent on fanning anger and taking out their revenge--and so the wound of the Civil War still festers.

[nels25]

4. To me it is perfectly all right to be upset

with the current administration, most thinking people are.

But I would not want your anger/rage to take you so far as to make you physically sick.

ALso you may like to take a little comfort from our history.

It seems to me that when ever things get to a breaking point (either because we allow it as in the present case, or due to outside forces such as WW2) we seem to find it within our selves as a nation to summon the leadership to see us through our current difficulties and into a brighter and better future.

For me personally I also derive some comfort from by religion (though to be honest there is a lot I no longer understand but though earlier in life that I did).

The bottom line for me is to improve this nation, do so with as little rancor as possible (keeping in mind that for action there is a reaction).

And for us as a nation to as much as possible calm down, get to business and become the leading light of humanity and the world that we were once, and I believe can be again.

we will not accomplish this with an over load of anger or superiority complex.

Be well please.:toast:

[glowing]

12. In order to become shining examples, we must actually become a democratic

republic that is more interested in protecting life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. rather than the projected nationalistic model that we have now. I would say, as many who have studied history, America really is not some "light and humanitarian" that we have so coined ourselves. In order to have the vast "prosperity".. which is basically more junk that keeps us little cogs moving the machine.. we have created nightmares for other countries... Our greed has enslaved countries in sweat shops. Our need for every resource has produced atrocities around the world. It is us who need to step back and really examine what kind of example we want to be. I personally think that spending 49 cents of every tax dollar on the Pentagon and the war machine is not progressive or enlightening to many around the world.

Anger is ok.. if it helps to find some sollutions. Blind rage is destructive and leads to more violence. I would have to say that the modern Americans would not be able to live through a Civil War.. and it could escalate to this.. All the ingredients are for the making of a lot of terror.. or a way to re-examine and change courses for the better.

You do have a point about ex-Repugs looking in at the tit for tat. It doesn't exactly look like the Dems are offering much in the sollutions dept. when they are cutting each other up. They are just as angry and pissed and maybe more so because they trusted and were lied to. When they woke up, it must have been shocking. Could you imagine coming here to read about the other side and see what they have to offer? It must be just as heartbreaking as it is for me.

[nels25]

13. I believe that a re-evaluation of the nation

every so often is good for it's soul and ultimately can lead to the nations betterment.

When I state that I believe in the better nature of this nation in does not also mean that I endorse nationalism run amok. Unbridled nationalism creates wars (See US Civil, and both of last century's world wars) so that is an unsound basis on which to sustain a nation.

I also do not believe that enjoying a lifestyle that the nation currently enjoys is by necessity any thing to be ashamed of. Many have played by the rules and prospered and to remove the fruits of their labor or to shame them, to me seems patently unfair and to a limited degree patronizing.

OTOH there are many who have prospered and live an ostentatious lifestyle to which they did not earn by their own labor. They gained it by either fortune of birth, manipulation of a business/market for their betterment not caring about the costs/harm done to other blameless people.
Or they gained their wealth by sheer illegality.

These people deserve to be dealt with sharply. For those who gained their wealth by birth, I might remind them that "to who much is given, much is required". This more than anything else is what Republicans of high status seem not to understand, and then they are amazed that they are held in high disrepute by a high percentage of the nation.

I hope you are wrong about terror, it will most likely do more harm then good in the short run, no matter who is elected.

I want results, and for us to emulate a noted republican president by the name of Lincoln who as noted by another poster to my essay wanted to get past anger/rage/rancor.

It is the best way to go.:thumbsup:

[glowing]

15. It depends on what you call happiness.. If its a big SUV, house, and

t.v., then that is for you.. I could care about none of those. People have diff. ideas of happiness.. However, it would be unsustainable if the entire world were to try to live like Americans.. It is time to change the technology so that more can enjoy different pleasures. I didn't say one has to be ashamed of shiney objects.. They just mean very little to me and do not make me happy. To me its an item that I had to work x amount of hours to have.. my time is precious to me.. and way too much of it is spent not doing what I want in order to just give me the basics.. Also, the whole idea of "work hard" and "play by the rules" is way too much of a motto that I do not adhere to. The man who picks up my trash is probably more valuable than my elected rep is to me.. yet one is treated much worst and will not be sipping fancy wine or eating caviar when they go home at night.

[SQ_20903]

6. Yes

all is possible

[housewolf]

9. Thank you for the most cogent piece I've seen on DU

in days (if not longer).

Thanks for sharing your ideas, beliefs & feelings. And your wisdom. All DU'ers would do themselves (and the rest of the world) a favor by seriously contemplataing your words.

Best to you...

:toast:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Glad to give the 5th R

Anger is not constructive. It embroils one's energies without doing anything constructive. All the great teachers from all societies talk of the need of forgiveness, of letting bygones be bygones, for the benefit of oneself and society as a whole.

[tblue37]

14. Thank you, nels25. This was a wonderfully sane post. n/t