Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?

[ensho]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JC11Ak04.html


-snip-

The issue of Muslim "barbarism", including honor killings and other forms of violence against women, has risen in prominence in Europe's political agenda. The question appears to be: Do Muslims commit barbaric acts because they are bad Muslims or because they are good Muslims? Does Islam as such promote barbarism or suppress it? Within the vast collection of hadith, or apocryphal sayings of Mohammed, are to be found explicit support for female genital mutilation and wife-beating. Are such barbaric acts a residue of traditional society that persist despite Islam, or because of it?

-snip-

Jordan's King Abdullah succeeded in revising this language, but as the Associated Press reported last year, "attempts to introduce harsher sentences for honor killings have been blocked in Jordan's parliament, where the predominantly conservative Bedouin lawmakers argue that lesser penalties would lead to tolerating of promiscuity."

Islamic clerics, to be sure, tend to favor the idea that they rather than families should do the killing. According to a traditional ruling cited by Dr Mohammed Fadel and frequently posted on Islamic sites,

-snip-

As for the Shariah stance on female circumcision, it’s a controversial issue among the Muslim scholars and even doctors.

In response to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
Actually, this is a controversial issue among jurists and even among doctors. It has sparked off fierce debate in Egypt whereby scholars and doctors are split into proponents and opponents.

-snip-

For this reason it is meaningless to ask whether Islam opposes or promotes the practices of traditional society, for its method of expansion is to absorb whole the societies within its power. As a universal religion, it can only universalize the aspirations of the tribes it assimilates, rather than transform them. At its worst, Christianity makes compromises with the pagan heritage of its converts, which is why Sicilian Catholics killed for honor until recently; at its best, Islam embodies this pagan heritage, which is why it cannot rid itself of barbarism today.
--------------------------------


whatever the reasons for oppressing/torturing/killing women need to STOP.

[endarkenment]

1. Is collateral damage worse than honor killings?

If we simply pile up the bodies of 'innocents killed' Christianity has a whole mountain range of dead compared to the hill of Islamic slaughter.

But we don't make those comparisons, do we?

[Lex Talionis]

4. We should ask that question and make those comparisons.

Lets take this century though and not reach back several hundred years. Even calculating the Iraq war, who is attacking civilians all over the world? In the last 8 years which religion committed more atrocities? Christianity went through a reformation, Islam has not. If you read both books, Bible and Q'uran, Both have violent tendency's. Yet to a fundamentalist Muslim, what applied in the 10th century, still applies now. Their still chopping heads off in Saudi Arabia. Don't know of any Christian countries that still stone adulterers. I could be wrong. And yes, I know America kills from the air, but have a hard time equating that to strapping on a vest and blowing innocents up in a pizzeria. May just be me, though.

[wuushew]

Why do you feel that religion is the primary cause of cultural differences?

Do you feel the Muslims of the Balkans are bloodthirsty savages?

Amazing that you have overlooked how environment, economics and colonial history may influence behavior.


Do you feel that governments and individuals should go beyond mere observation into programs of religious dissuasion?

[ensho]

21. I didn't write the article

ask the writer your questions

[endarkenment]

24. wrong answer

You posted the article. Either defend it or denounce it.

[Lex Talionis]

23. It may not be the cause of cultural differences, we all have our opinion of who God is.

but it is the cause of most wars fought down through history. Every since Abraham made his choice.

"Do you feel the Muslims of the Balkans are bloodthirsty savages?" No.


"Do you feel that governments and individuals should go beyond mere observation into programs of religious dissuasion?" Its been tried already by the Communist. Didn't work. Someone once said that if God did not exist man would have invented him. People want to believe in a higher authority. While I am not an atheist, man tends to mold God in his image and not the other way around. One reason why I dropped out of religion was that one Sunday I asked my teacher "how long was a day in the life of God." 24 hours he said. You can't be Alpha and Omega and your day just be 24 hours long. I mean no offense to any here.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. Shatter your ideals on the rock of Truth

and Sufis say that God is known through experience--concepts of God are merely that, and are not perfect. The goal is to shatter one's concepts-one's ideals-and to get closer to the experience, which really can't be put into words.

[Lex Talionis]

38. Amen, sister amen. But you can be killed in some

parts of the world for thinking or saying that. Even Jesus said he brings a sword and not peace. Thank you for being cordial and understanding to this "Heretic". Respects to you and yours

[endarkenment]

9. You really think that there is a difference

between blowing up a pizza stand via suicide vest vs blowing up a Baghdad restaurant with a smart bomb on the off chance that Saddam was dining there? Please explain exactly how one of those is not an act of barbarism.

The numbers killed by the civilized warfare of the modern societies of christianity is in the 100-million plus range since 1900. Islam in that same time period cannot be held accountable for slaughter amounting to even 1% of that number.

Beheading or stoning vs frying in the electric chair, poisoning with gas, hanging, firing squads, or lethal injections somehow brings you comfort? Why? We conduct our state murders behind closed doors with rituals that are used to mask the simple and horrific brutality of execution, they do theirs in the public square unapologetically using techniques that are just not high tech enough for our modern sensibilities. Some difference.

[Lex Talionis]

44. Yea, but we don't execute drug dealers and prostitutes, nor

chop off the hands of thieves, or push walls over on homosexuals. So yea, I'd say there is "some" difference. Its OK, I've been posting to one here who has enlightened me about other sects of Islam, so I don't think we need to nuke them all if that is what your trying to get at.

Also just so you'll know, Communism killed around a 100 million in the 20th century, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it in the name of Jesus. No, that's not a "neocon" talking point to justify "Christian" wars.

[treestar]

13. To whoever dies, it counts

That the bomb came from the air, just as much as otherwise.

No Christian countries are stoning, etc, but that has a lot to do with how those countries happened to develop and the outside influences, etc. We may be fortunate in being that far ahead, but the culture was pushed by circumstances which have no arrived to the Middle East yet. They weren't the ones who went out to other continents to "civilize" them. There was no Muslim Christopher Columbus, for starters. That may be both good and bad. But it is why America is not full of Muslims. If there had been, the US might have been a Muslim nation conceived by Muslims wanting their independence from Arabia, and who is to say that the conditions would not have led to liberalization for their religion, too?

It is probably much more complex than making a judgment that they weren't quick enough to make advances in social mores that the Western world had the ability to make. And it doesn't prove they can't and won't make them. In fact, things were evening out for women, until the 70s when U.S. interference brought a backlash of fundamentalism.

[AngryAmish]

34. Islam did not push out to other continents?

Then why did the Battle of Tours happen in France and not Arabia?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

43. Islam did push out to other places,

but there was a difference, in that people weren't forced to convert to Islam, by and large. There was discrimination of a sort; non-Muslims had to pay a special tax. However, non-Muslims were exempt from serving in the military.

In Moorish Spain, Jews were welcome to practice their faith and there was a large Jewish community. When the Christians conquered in 1492, they forced Jews to either convert or leave.

That being said, the Turks did some forced conversions in the Balkins. But this was the exception rather than the rule. In India, Emporer Ahkbar actually built a city honoring all faiths, built by Jewish, Hindu, Christian, and Muslim craftsmen.

[AngryAmish]

47. Being a dhimmi was hardly a discrimination of a sort

(And I realize that practices varied over time and place so not every place was the worst over time, just like not every place was the best over time)

Often Christians and Jews had to wear clothes signifying their status. They could not enter most professions. And so on...and Christendom at the time was no better. And if you were not Christian or Jews, it was convert or die.

However the slave issue, in the Balkans especially - or lest we forget the African slave trade which flourished until the British finally stamped it out for the most part. Slave related piracy by the Barbary states, etc.

My point is not to pick on Islam. I think it is fair to say Islam was not better and not worse. Humans acted abominably from time immemorial. We are just climbing out of (or evolving away from) our violent natures.
However when folks say that Christens started it -- that is simply not the case. Cheers.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

56. Well, since Christianity is older than Islam.....

you could say they "started it" I guess.

Now slavery was something that was around long before either Christianity or Islam was around. And the Qur'an gives slaves certain rights--such as freedom for children of concubines and freedom for slaves that convert. Jews have had to wear special clothing in Christian nations as well. But it was not "convert or die" in Moorish Spain until the Christians took over.

I think that, through the ages, religion was, at first, a way of trying to make humankind more humane. After the deaths of the various prophets, these core teachings were usually overridden by those who were interested in using religion to obtain power.

[The Stranger]

16. Tell me again why you are taking just 8 years instead of 2 1/2 to 3 millenia?

Especially given that the Spanish Inquisition, Europe's centuries-long history of pogroms, and the "conversion" and ethnic cleansing of Native American peoples -- to name a few incidents -- lasted far longer than 8 years.

May just be me, though.

You're right. It may be just you.

[Goblinmonger]

18. I'll give you three guesses

and the first two don't count.

[Lex Talionis]

26. The past you cannot change the future you can.

If you want to justify people actions today for what happened centuries ago, well I really have no answer for that.

[The Stranger]

35. But that resposne doesn't make any sense.

Whether it is the past 8 years or the past 8 thousand years -- all of it occurred in the past.

[Lex Talionis]

37. Yes, but you can't bring up something that happened 1000 years ago.

and say that is why people act the way they do in the 21st century. Someone wiser than me said that. I understand what it means.

[The Stranger]

46. Well, then that is where you are wrong.

People in the U.S. may think history is a two line Associated Press sound bite. Or an internet news story. Or a "History Channel" half-hour propaganda piece. Or even that something "historic" was 20, 50, 100 years ago. Because the U.S. is barely 200+ years old.

But in other parts of the world, where there is a history going back millenia, things take on a completely different perspective. And with this different perspective comes a different meaning.

Something historic in Europe may be 1000 years ago, not 20 or 50 years ago. And people know what happened and they have their own reasons as to why. In the Middle East, it is even worse (or better, depending on how you see it). History there goes back to the beginning of history itself, and people seem to keep up with it and every single thing that has happened since.

So you may want to forget what happened 1000 years ago, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. (In fact, most Americans don't even know anything that happened 1000 years go). And that doesn't mean you can get other people(s) to forget what happened 1000 years ago.

So that is where you are wrong.

[Lex Talionis]

48. No I don't want to "forget" what happened 1000 years ago.

But, how long will we let that influence what happens today? 500, 1000, 10000 years from now?. Some Muslims want Andalusia back. Jews and Muslims kill over who "owns" Jerusalem. Some Christians think both Jews and Muslims should get out of Jerusalem. The Serbs think that some battle that happened in 13th century should have a bearing on the way they treat another ethnic group. If you can't let go of what happened 1000 years ago, IMHO, your a pretty sad people.You can make excuses for the ignorant all you want, Still does not change the fact that if you live in the past you can never make a better future for yourself or your people. So I'm neither wrong nor right, just making a statement of the way it is. But, hey I'll concede and we can war over this 5 years from now and you can tell me how wrong I still am.

[The Stranger]

55. No, that isn't my purpose for posting here.

I think you and I would agree that the past has to be made the past. (And, honestly, we probably aren't the first two people to see the insanity of constant retalition and the harboring of grudges through history, leading seemingly to endless bloodletting. Insert here a pertinent soliloquy from Romeo and Juliet).

Where I would disagree is where you appear to want to take only a small piece of all of that insanity, and justify one's insane viewpoint. It is either all insanity, or none of it insanity.

[Lex Talionis]

57. Well then, its all Insanity of the highest order to the nth degree. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

29. Let's look at this century

Who is attacking civilians all over the world? No Sufi that I know of. No moderate Muslim, either. As for a reformation of Islam, check out what the Sufis have said for years, for centuries--I think the reforming may be by sects rather than the religion as a whole--but isn't that the way it happened in Christianity?

I know my Order and other Sufi Orders who have women in positions of power and who welcome homosexuals--they are even senior teachers, which is how our Order functions. How many Christian denominations can say the same? Sufis have taken the notion of tolerance and peace all over the world, including Moscow and Jerusalem, and they continue to hold conferences about how best to gain peace. Of course you rarely hear of this work because it doesn't fit into the MSM's idea of what they want America to think about Islam.

[Lex Talionis]

36. Thank you, ayeshahaqqiqa for your honest and thoughtful answer.

I am no longer a practicing Christian and view God in a different light than most. Man requires that God fit his image of man and acts accordingly. The reason there are so many sects of both Christianity and Islam is that mankind has his on way of looking at how God should be.

While I have read both books, Bible and Q'uran, I am not very familiar with the various sects of Islam, only the two major ones. Is it true that Sufis are considered heretics by both Shiite and Sunni? Kinda of the way Pentecostals view the Baptist and Church of Christ.:) (that's an inside joke)

One other note, I never believe anything from the MSM, knowledge is power and its knowledge I seek. You want get that from the TV. I hope that you and people like you can make some kind of reformation happen in Islam. Respects to you and yours.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. Got the joke, btw

What I like about Sufi Orders (and that is how this branch of Islam is divided) is that you can belong to more than one at the same time, and each one looks at God in a slightly different way--and yet accepts all other ways of viewing God.

I would say that the religious leaders of the major sects often persecute Sufis, mainly because the idea is that the path to Truth is not found by following a leader but rather through inner work. That is threatening to anyone who is on a religious power trip.

My respect and best wishes to you as well.

[Lex Talionis]

41. This has been very enlightening,ayeshahaqqiqa.

At the end of the day it IS about power over the people and is why wars will be fought in "God's Name" until the end of time. I hope that people like you win out. But, man is inherently warlike, especially where interpretation of God is concerned, and I see no change in the future. Thanks again for educating me on the Sufi order and you have a good day.

[VermeerLives]

45. Lex Talionis, you've made some interesting observations

"Man requires that God fit his image of man and acts accordingly."

How true that often is! Someone has said that no one can rise above their concept of God. Ponder that for awhile. Like god, like people. Our worship, and our behavior, will be as low or high as our concept of God.

The question has been posed as to whether Muslims are acting in accordance with Islam, i.e., whether they are just being good Muslims or not. There are some recent examples of how their beliefs are working out in a practical way, so I'll let you all be the judge.

1) There have been several reports in the news about Muslim female medical students at various hospitals in the UK who are refusing to scrub up to their elbows (standard medical protocol) because it violates their standards of modesty. Question: Do you want to be treated by a doctor or have surgery done by a physician who refuses to follow standard hygienic practices for surgery? Is forcing them be compliant with standard procedures (or face dismissal) a violation of their religious freedom?

2) The UK has also now approved welfare benefits for multiple wives among Muslim men, even though polygamy is illegal in the UK. (And it's apparently happening in NY, as well, among some African immigrants who are bringing over more than one wife, and the NY social services are turning a blind eye to it.)

I think we must also consider the practical consequences here for society and the culture at large. As I said, you be the judge.

[wuushew]

49. Those reports are barely sourced if at all

Don't believe everything you read in The Daily Telegraph.

Remember Christian fundamentalists posing as pharmacists are a very real threat to women's health in this country.

[Lex Talionis]

58. I'll agree with that.

"Remember Christian fundamentalists posing as pharmacists are a very real threat to women's health in this country."
They are only refusing to dispense birth control or abortion drugs, if I remember correctly.

To not want to wash up before surgery, for what ever reason, I would think would be a different story. Its not just reported by The Daily Telegraph, either. Islamic doctors were the first to understand how to fight the plague by lancing the boils, I may be wrong, this was not against Islamic teachings, but by some Fundamentalist of today may be considered "unclean" actions if preformed on "infidels".

Any Fundamentalist of what ever religion is driven by their "belief" that they know what God wants for mankind. It has manifested itself in the last few decades and with addition of modern weapons and biological science can be very, very deadly these days.

[Lex Talionis]

53. This is one of the points I was trying to make.

I do not knock anyones religion because I was raised in a Pentecostal Church, so I understand what fundamentalist is. Women couldn't wear makeup nor pants, couldn't cut their hair. Jesus was on his way any day and so on. What your seeing in the UK and in some ways here, is PC gone amok. To point out what you did can get you called all kinds of ugly names and yet those who would say that the Christian Fundamentalist will stone adulterers if they were in charge. Have no problem with Muslim women not scrubbing or men with multiple wives because its their culture or religion and you should be sensitive to it. Interesting times are happening in Europe. Still, Religious Fundamentalism is the problem, not necessarily any Religion as a whole.

[Dark]

54. What about N. Ireland? Or abortion clinic bombings.

They may not be on the same scale, but Christianity has plenty of blood on its hands.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Female circumcism is NOT Islam

NOWHERE in the Qur'an or the Hadiths to they talk about this. Female genital mutilation is practiced by non-Muslims in Africa and not practiced by Muslims in other parts of the world. Same with "honor killings". Anyone who thinks Islam condones or even encourages this stuff has not read the Qur'an nor talked with any Muslim who is not a fundamentalist.

You realize, I hope, that in Mohammed's time, it was common practice to leave female infants out in the desert to die. Women who were married off were robbed of their dowries and then shipped back to their parents. Women who were divorced by their husbands had no rights for child support, etc. The Qur'an changed this and the practices of the Beloved Prophet showed great respect towards women.

What has happened is a reversion to pre-Islamic barbaric practices. Wahhab, the founder of Wahhabism, the fundamentalist sect predominant in Saudi Arabia, is the chief architect of this--he played upon prejudices that were already there amongst the people and led them away from Islam to this strange aberration.

[Lex Talionis]

10. Before you jump on me. I agree with what you posted.

Fundamentalist, IMHO, are giving Islam a bad name. I know and have met several Moderate Muslims, they agree that Islam needs to under go some form of reformation. Just don't know how that can happen if you can be killed for questioning Mohammed. When I quit Christianity, Mom cried Dad got pissed, But we still get along. One ex-Muslim I know has been disowned and threatened with death by his family. Just my experience. I'm sure it varies from place to place. May I ask what branch of Islam you belong to? I apologize in advance if that is out of line.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. Not out of line at all

I'm a Sufi initiate (the avatar is a symbol of my Order). Sufis are the mystics of Islam, and are persecuted as heretics by the Wahhabists. It is hard to do things in the Middle East when the Saudis forbid Sufis from even meeting to practice their faith and the Iranian government burns down meeting places and rounds up peaceful Sufi protesters.

Here in the West, Sufis have been doing whatever they can to create a dialog amongst all people.

[Chovexani]

27. Thank you Ayesha

This is a point that seems to be lost on most people.

[kiva]

42. Not completly accurate.

I'm not saying that honor killings and female genital mutilation are condoned by the Islamic faith, but it's incorrect to say that "Female genital mutilation is practiced by non-Muslims in Africa and not practiced by Muslims in other parts of the world. Same with "honor killings"."

Gendercide.org specifically points out that, though these killings are against Islamic law, they do happen:

Most "honour" killings of women occur in Muslim countries, the focus of this case study; but it is worth noting that no sanction for such murders is granted in Islamic religion or law. And the phenomenon is in any case a global one.
http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html

As to the issue of female genital mutilation, though examples certainly predate the Islamic faith it isn't accurate to say that it's only practiced by "non-Muslims in Africa."

In response to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

Actually, this is a controversial issue among jurists and even among doctors. It has sparked off fierce debate in Egypt whereby scholars and doctors are split into proponents and opponents.

However, the most moderate opinion and the most likely one to be correct is in favor of practicing circumcision in the moderate Islamic way indicated in some of the Prophet's hadiths – even though such hadiths are not confirmed to be authentic. It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to a midwife: "Reduce the size of the clitoris but do not exceed the limit, for that is better for her health and is preferred by husbands". The hadith indicates that circumcision is better for a woman's health and it enhances her conjugal relation with her husband. It’s noteworthy that the Prophet's saying "do not exceed the limit" means do not totally remove the clitoris.

Actually, Muslim countries differ over the issue of female circumcision; some countries sanction it whereas others do not. Anyhow, it is not obligatory, whoever finds it serving the interest of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world. But whoever chooses not to do it is not considered to have committed a sin for it is mainly meant to dignify women as held by scholars.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543886

Please note that I'm not writing this to bash anyone (or any religion), but to provide some more information.

[Solon]

59. The poster never claimed what you just stated she claimed...

All she meant was the honor killings aren't universal in ALL Muslim nations, nor is genital mutilation. The poster didn't say that some Muslims don't do this, just that it isn't universal, and in the case of FGM, it isn't limited to Islam. Christians, Jews and Animists in many locations in Africa practice some form of Female Genital Mutilation.

[kiva]

60. Guess it's a difference in the way we read it.

I read it to mean that the poster was saying that ONLY non-Muslims in Africa practiced female genital mutilation and honor killings, but your interpretation is quite different and probably closer to what the poster intended.

[wuushew]

3. This is a pretty hate filled essay, and the second one is worse

What exactly is your purpose here? Certainly not a discussion in comparative religion.

Posting crap like this just pushes neocon viewpoints.

[ensho]

6. what neo con viewpoints are you referring to?

?

[wuushew]

11. Take your pick

[DeSwiss]

5. To the extent....

...that the term barbaric being used here, refers to "uncivilized and primitive" behavior, I think all religions are that.

- Some are just more barbaric than others....

[bean fidhleir]

7. I believe the piece you cite is filled with lies.

I also suspect that the article (which I've not read because I already get more than my quota of lies from the media) offers no citations in support of what it claims.

There are people who do evil in the name of every religion, even Buddhism. That doesn't mean the religion itself is evil.

Muhammad was an *exceptionally* enlightened man for his time. If you look at the difference between what he demanded of his followers and what Christianity (the RC church) supported in Europe at the same time, you'll be astonished.

(edit) Okay, I've read it and I was right. It offers no citations, and it barely admits that the so-called 'hadith' that supports FGM is 'unverified' (meaning: counterfeit). It's a very ugly screed, not as awful as the "Protocols", but cut from the same cloth.

[auburngrad82]

8. Only if you hold Christianity to the same standards nt

[yardwork]

12. Take a look at this - study says oil leads to patriarchy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2982548&mesg_id=2982548

[genie_weenie]

14. Blame resides with those who commit the acts, however,

if an human constructed idea teaches the wrong messages, it could be considered the root cause.

Of course, the history of civilization is a long protracted debate over what the "wrong message" actually is...

Additionally, allowances are usually made for those who have never been exposed to different ideas or who have been indoctrinated or mistreated from an early age, hence the current US legal ideas concerning juvenile laws.

[Goblinmonger]

15. Give me a break.

All I had to read was this:

At its worst, Christianity makes compromises with the pagan heritage of its converts, which is why Sicilian Catholics killed for honor until recently

Yeah, THAT'S Christianity at its worst. If that is the type of skillful analysis going on in that article, I don't want to lose IQ points by reading it.

[genie_weenie]

17. OMGosh! That image in your sig line is such an accurate depiction of atheism.

you must be a religious profit.

[Goblinmonger]

20. I love old Christian propaganda

What a bunch of loons. I was actually thinking of changing the sig line, but can't think of anything clever at this point.

[devilgrrl]

19. I like the 1930's version better when everyone was blaming the Jews.

:sarcasm:

What a bunch of racist horse hockey!

:nuke:

[Goblinmonger]

22. Oh the good old days

when everything was the fault of the Jooos.

What the hell, Ishmal/Isaac, what's the dif?

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Right. Any violence committed by Christianity is due to "paganism"

Like, say, the inquisition?

Gimme a break. Religious loonies of all stripes have been guilty of barbarism, as have assholes acting under different banners. Trying to imply that Islam is inherently "evil" while Christianity (oh, right, "real" Christianity) is pure is total bs.

The enemy is narrow minded fundamentalism and intolerance, no matter what name it calls itself.

[Lex Talionis]

30. "The enemy is narrow minded fundamentalism and intolerance, no matter what name it calls itself. "

you are exactly right.

[uppityperson]

32. The enemy is narrow minded fundamentalism and intolerance, no matter what name it calls itself.

I was going to post this exact thing. Thank you. This is the problem, these are the enemy.

[devilgrrl]

33. He omitted the "Muslims use the blood of christian babies to make falafel" lie...

:wtf:

:sarcasm:

[Bridget Burke]

39. "Who is Spengler?" (Author of the essay in the OP.)

No, I'm not talking about Oswald Spengler, the great declinist, cyclical history theorist, and, most famously, the author of The Decline of the West. He's a pretty neat read, if you're into that sort of thing, and I absolutely love his concept of Western Civilization as a "Faustian" culture. Other than that, he's sort of a crank, and not much of what he says should be taken too seriously.

Some ideas here: www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002802.html

Too bad the OP omitted the author's name. And his own opinion, as well....

[Mountainman]

50. Well are you going to include the Inquisition too?

[devilgrrl]

51. I hear that there are too many Muslims in Hollywood.

I've also heard that they have tails.

:sarcasm:

[Karenina]

52. The Ami *MIC is a bigger problem.

"ISLAM" is NOT a monolith. The *MIC IS. The "terrorism" blamed on Islam PALES in comparison.