I Received This E-Mail This A.M. From A Friend - I Left It Intact Only XXXX'ed Out Names........

[global1]

my gut is that this is a piece of propaganda being circulated to justify our existence in Iraq and point to the Dems wanting to pull out of Iraq and say they are weak on defense and this is what you will spoil if you pull out. I don't believe for a minute that this came from a person that has a son in Iraq. I went to the website cited at the bottom. It is the DOD website. I noodled around the site to see if I could find these statements mentioned in this e-mail and wasn't able to hit on them. I suspect that it is the hope of whomever sent this that if you did take the time and clicked on the website and determined it is a DOD website that one would stop there and believe everything and not really look and verify for yourself.

I would like to hear comments from DU'ers about this. Is this e-mail legit? Who is behind it? Any truth to any of the statements in it? Is so - why haven't we heard about these things? I'm thinking that *CO would be touting these so-called accomplishments at news conferences and all over the right wing media.

If it is not legit - I would like debunk it and also see if we can compose answers to this. What this war has cost us - in terms of lives and money. And what could have happened here in the U.S. if we spent this money for our purposes.

Our infrastructure is crumbling. People without healthcare. Unemployment - sending our jobs overseas. Schools deteriorating and being closed. Can't afford to send your kid to college. Academic standards depreciating in the U.S. Electrical grids in peril. Subprime crisis. Shaky stock market and investors. Recession coming. Dollar trading lower and lower every day. Prices for everything going up. We're losing our freedoms. We're being spied on. We torture.

Here is the thread of the e-mails I received and the questionable e-mail this post is about. Get ready and hold on to your seat.


-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxx <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 6:45 am
Subject: FW: BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW?!?!?!?

FYI - I VERIFIED THIS DATA WITH MY SON BEFORE SENDING IT ON. VERY INTERESTING THAT WE NEVER HEAR OF ALL OF THE GOOD THINGS THAT ARE BEING DONE IN IRAQ. I KNOW THAT HE HAS WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE IRAQI MILITARY AND POLICE FORCE AND HOLDS THEM IN THE HIGHEST REGARD. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR PACKAGES, PRAYERS, ETC. HOPEFULLY, HE WILL BE HOME WITH US SOON!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW?!?!?!?
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:30:21 +0000

Pretty accurate. A lot of the stuff is a little out dated so the numbers are actually a little higher (especially the #'s on their military)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: FW: BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW?!?!?!?
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:36:32 +0000

xxxxxx,
Please verify that these facts are basically accurate before I forward this on.

This is pretty exciting stuff! I am proud that you guys are a part of this.

xoxoxoxoxoxox
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:51:45 -0600
Subject: BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW?!?!?!?


Did you know?

I didn't know!

How could we?

Did you know that 47 countries' have reestablished their embassies in Iraq ?

Did you know that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under rehabilitation,263 new schools are now under construction; and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?

Did you know that Iraq 's higher educational structure consists of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers, all currently operating?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational? They have 5 - 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.

Did you know that Iraq ' s Air Force consists of three operational squadrons, Which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft(under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night,and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?

Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers?

Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?

Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq ? They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?

Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a televised debate recently?

OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!

WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW?

BECAUSE OUR MEDIA WON'T TELL US!

Instead of reflecting our love for our country, we get photos of flag burning incidents at Abu Ghraib and people throwing snowballs at the presidential motorcades.

Tragically, the lack of accentuating the positive in Iraq serves two purposes:

It is intended to undermine the world's perception of the United States thus minimizing consequent support; and it is intended to discourage American citizens.
----
Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web site.

http://www.defenselink.mil/

Did you know?

Why I didn't know
But I know now.....
.......Pass it on! Give it a Wide Dissemination!!!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Any comments DUer's. Somebody took a lot of time to compose this. What do you think? Is this legit? I would like to send a response to my friend that sent me this. Obviously - they think it is true and have continued to circulate it.

[NMDemDist2]

1. snopes has a page on it that sends you to this

Dear George,

Kathy asked me to give some comments to the letter you’ve forwarded her. I feel flattered that Kathy trusted my judgment that much, and I hope that I am worthy of her trust. I’ll do my best to comment on each point as accurately as possible.

But let me tell you very little about myself so that you can better evaluate my comments. I work in a private company and not for the government. I don’t have financial problems. And I never personally had a problem with the old regime (which does not mean that I wanted it to stay, on the contrary, having the old regime gone is the only good thing that has happened). And I have no relation whatsoever to any of the old or the new parties. So my comments reflects the way as I see things, which is hopefully correct and unbiased.

So below are my comments for each point in the letter.

>> Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1st… The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty. Over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. nearly all of Iraq’s 400 courts are functioning.

But yet, we’ve never felt more insecure. Though the security is improving by time (regardless of bombing and terrorists attacks. I am only referring to robbery and kidnapping), but still Baghdad is still far from being considered a safe city. I started using my (relatively new) car few weeks ago after having kept it in my garage for about 6 month. I still never go out alone though, and I know of many who have not returned to using their new cars yet. What counts is: it has been over 8 months now and it’s still far from being safe enough.

>> The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

We certainly hope so, but no one is sure about that yet. Only time can prove whether our Judiciary system is really independent and just or not. And even then, one must wait till Iraqis say that their judiciary system is independent or not and definitely not the Americans.

>> On Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the pre-war average.

Unfortunately I am not sure of the number for the pre-war average but let me give you some facts.

- Iraq’s power generation was about 10,000 MW before the first gulf war in 91.
- Now, Iraq’s power need is about 20,000 MW, and the 4,518 MW is only about a quarter of what we need. So at best we’ll have is about 6 hours a day during peak seasons.
- Before the war, Baghdad used to have an average of 18-24 hours a day in mid-summer and mid-winter. And it was almost full time during autumn and spring. Now, as an average, we have electricity of about 8 hours a day, and the best we had (for very short periods) is 12 hours a day, and that probably occurs when the weather is good or when some places have problems in the power distribution system, so their share will go to others. We have a saying in Arabic, "the mishaps of some, are the fortunes of others".
- The construction of any major power generation plant (in the range of a thousand Megawatt) takes from 3 to 5 years. And till this moment, no such action is taken or even considered. So we are not to expect any noticeable improvement for some years to come.

>> All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

That’s true. But every now and then, a school gets a warning about a bomb, so many parents are afraid to send their kids to schools, and when they do so, they will be deeply worried. The laboratories of most of the universities were looted and new ones have not been prepared yet.

>> By October 1, Coalition forces had rehabbed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than their target.

As for schools, well Kathy replied to that very accurately in her reply and I quote

"Several articles have already been written about the poor quality of school rehabs. Loads of paint has been applied so that buildings look better from the outside, but inside there hasn’t been adequate rehab of plumbing systems, water systems, and insulation from rain."

Money were given to contractors without any form of monitoring. The contractors did some fixing, specially painting and stole the rest of the money. End of the story.

>> Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

True, but the extra money is being spent in ways that did not exist before. People are spending money to subscribe for few ampers to get some electricity from the large generators that can be found in many neighborhoods now. An Amper is sold for about $2-3 a month, so for the minimum useful amount of 5 Ampers, one will have to pay an amount of $10-15 a month (A teachers salary now ranges from $60-120 a month, maybe a little bit more). Those who are not willing to stand in the fuel queue will have to buy fuel in the black market for about 20 times its official price. The same for Kerosene. Many things like meat and vegetables are almost double their previous prices.

Only electrical equipment and cars got cheaper everything else got more expensive, eating the few extra bucks that were given.

>> All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open. Doctors’ salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.

Doctors used to get very very very very low salaries. Now they get very low salaries. My sister in law, who is a doctor, gets about as much as the cleaning man working in the same hospital and that’s about $120. There is a rumur that the salaries will be recalculated soon. Lets wait and see.

>> Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons. The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccination doses to Iraq’s children.

I don’t know about that. So I will not comment.

>> A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq’s 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals. They now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.

Same comment as above, that is, no comment.

>> We have restored over three-quarters of pre-war telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production. There are 4,900 full-service connections. We expect 50,000 by January first.

The telephone lines that are working now, are basically those that have not been damaged in the first place. From those damaged, and after about 8 months, only about 15% has been restored. No one expected fixing the telephone service to take that long.

As for water, well its too vital. You didn’t expect the US to leave us without water? Or did you?

>> The wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns.

That’s something I’ve always wanted to comment on.

- Allowing tens of thousands of air-conditioners to come into the country (tax-free) when we have an extreme shortage in power generation is not a smart thing to do. (I don’t know if you know this or not, but a single air-conditioning unit consumes about 15 Ampers, while all our house consumes about 10 Ampers).
- Allowing about 500,000 cars to enter the country (tax free), when we have an extreme shortage of fuel is also not a smart thing to do. Picture this, - Shortage of fuel, - many main roads being blocked by the CPA for security reasons,
- Allowing about 500,000 cars to enter the country, 200,000 in Baghdad alone.

Is that something to be proud of? What happened is more shortage in fuel, more traffic jams because of the blocked roads, extra cars, and absence of electricity which means no traffic lights. I used to drive to work in about 20 minutes, now its takes from 40 to 90 minutes!

>> 95 percent of all pre-war bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily. Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. The central bank is fully independent. Iraq has one of the world’s most growth-oriented investment and banking laws. Iraq (has) a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.

Well we are definitely happy to finally have a decently printed currency.

>> Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1st… satellite dishes are legal.

Thank God, we needed something to spend our time with because no one dares to leave home after 9 PM.

>> Foreign journalists aren’t on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other government spies. There is no Ministry of Information.

That’s something we are really grateful for. Really.

>> There are more than 170 newspapers.

Many newspapers, but not 170. Anyway, Iraqis are finally back to reading newspapers, because the majority of Iraqis had stopped doing so for a long time.

>> You can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.

For the first few months after the occupation, all Iraqis were either selling satellite reception systems, or buying them. That was the only thing going.

>> Foreign journalists and everyone else are free to come and go.

But they are afraid to come. Baghdad is no more a safe place for foreigners.

>> A nation that had not one single element-legislative, judicial or executive–of a representative government, does. In Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad’s first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman. Today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country. 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq’s history, run the day-to-day business of government.

Did it ever happen anywhere in the world, that the religion of the minister of each ministry, is determined before selecting the minister. Regardless of the ministers ability, the way they were chosen, arouse many question marks, let alone the exclamation marks. But something is definitely better than nothing.

The problem of each minister promoting those having the same religion as his or in his party over others, is a different story, and I don’t believe that the Americans are to be blamed for this.

>> The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world.

Thanks for giving us our very basic rights. Should we be grateful for that?

>> Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren’t. For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam. The Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small as part of (a) strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq. Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to his zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq’s soccer players for losing games…murdering critics. Children aren’t imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.

We are definitely happy that Uday and Quesay are gone, but now the possibility of being blown up or getting caught in cross fire is much higher than getting into trouble with Uday and Quesay. Two terrorists are gone, but replaced by hundreds (note that I am not referring to the US army, but to those who kill innocent Iraqis and then claim to be the resistance)

>> Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1st… political opponents aren’t imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam. Millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.

That’s one of the reasons that is easing our pain.

>> Saudis will hold municipal elections. Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents. Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.

The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian — a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.

AND LET ME ADD.

AND IRAQ NOW IS A COMPLETE MESS

To summarize:

Yes things are getting better, but very slowly. In fact it is so slow that we are not expecting things to get back to normal in months to come. We modified our hopes from few months, to few years and we are very sad to have reached this conclusion.

Till this moment, we are not even close to pre-war situation. Yes we can have satellite dishes, and we have many newspapers, but put all such stuff in on one side of a balance, and absence of electricity, security, and fuel on the other, and you tell me which side will go down.

The Coalition did a very lousy job. We are not asking them to admit it, but at least let them keep quite and not go bragging about it.

Some Iraqi said, and I quote “The Americans took the cotton out of our mouths and put it in their ears”. This is exactly what happened here.

I hope I’ve answered some of your questions, and excuse me if I sounded too sarcastic, but this is the way things are. The bare truth, unfortunately, is an ugly one. Sometimes I have a feeling of optimisms, but when I start writing, stating the facts, think about what I am writing, things change. If you know I what I mean.

PS: I wrote this message last Thursday, and was unable to send it till today (4 Jan 04). There is one update now. The fuel queues are decreasing and the problem is getting solved gradually. the number of cars reduced to the range of tens of cars instead of hundreds. Thank God

Finally, Happy new year. And may this year be better for all of us.

Sincerely yours,

http://vitw.org/archives/174

and the snopes link

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp from 2/2005. lots can happen in 3 years.....

[global1]

5. I Hesitate To Send The Snopes Link Back To My Friend That Sent Me This......

because - the original letter you put here was written in 2004 and an updated response in 2005. Isn't there anything more recent? Like you said - a lot can happen in 3 years - only is it for the better or worse?

Is there any other way to verify the info in the e-mail I cited than Snopes?

[NMDemDist2]

8. how about this one?

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/iraq_dispatches/000594.php#more

[spanone]

10. four words...prop a gand a

[alfredo]

13. Many professors have been killed, imprisoned, or driven out of the country.

Same goes for doctors.

Some of the schools were destroyed by angry out of work locals who were cut out of the opportunity to work rebuilding the schools. Our contractors were using foreign labor because they felt they couldn't trust Iraqis.

The people who could run and repair the power generators were victims of Bremer's debaathification. All that was left was people who didn't know a thing about power generation. Looting degraded the system even further. The looting even destroyed maps manuals and diagrams needed to keep the power grid up and running. The only government offices not looted was the oil ministry. It was protected by US troops.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp

The googler is your friend. I simply typed in the first line of the bullshit: Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated

And that took me right to snopes.

"Succeeding is the new Stay the Course"

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[rucky]

3. Response from an Iraqi...

http://vitw.org/archives/174

So below are my comments for each point in the letter.

>> Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1st… The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty. Over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. nearly all of Iraq’s 400 courts are functioning.

But yet, we’ve never felt more insecure. Though the security is improving by time (regardless of bombing and terrorists attacks. I am only referring to robbery and kidnapping), but still Baghdad is still far from being considered a safe city. I started using my (relatively new) car few weeks ago after having kept it in my garage for about 6 month. I still never go out alone though, and I know of many who have not returned to using their new cars yet. What counts is: it has been over 8 months now and it’s still far from being safe enough.

>> The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

We certainly hope so, but no one is sure about that yet. Only time can prove whether our Judiciary system is really independent and just or not. And even then, one must wait till Iraqis say that their judiciary system is independent or not and definitely not the Americans.

>> On Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the pre-war average.

Unfortunately I am not sure of the number for the pre-war average but let me give you some facts.

- Iraq’s power generation was about 10,000 MW before the first gulf war in 91.
- Now, Iraq’s power need is about 20,000 MW, and the 4,518 MW is only about a quarter of what we need. So at best we’ll have is about 6 hours a day during peak seasons.
- Before the war, Baghdad used to have an average of 18-24 hours a day in mid-summer and mid-winter. And it was almost full time during autumn and spring. Now, as an average, we have electricity of about 8 hours a day, and the best we had (for very short periods) is 12 hours a day, and that probably occurs when the weather is good or when some places have problems in the power distribution system, so their share will go to others. We have a saying in Arabic, "the mishaps of some, are the fortunes of others".
- The construction of any major power generation plant (in the range of a thousand Megawatt) takes from 3 to 5 years. And till this moment, no such action is taken or even considered. So we are not to expect any noticeable improvement for some years to come.

[Clovis Sangrail]

4. snopes and a response

http://vitw.org/archives/174
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp

[Prefer]

6. That was from 2003

so old... If it was true then, why did we need a "surge"?

[OHdem10]

7. This does not confirm anything, but when CNN and Fos do War

Coverage some of these are pointed out in their War Segments.

In fact, CNN's Barabara Starr(Covers Iraq War and Pentagon, CMM)
ran a story last week pointing out successes in Iraq and emphasized
the Democratic Candidates could be in trouble over the Surge and
Iraq War.

To have picked up all the list of items in the post, you would have
to watch "War Coverage on these stations" regularly.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

9. If the Iraq people are doing soooo well then

WHY ARE WE STILL OVER THERE?!?

[ConcernedCanuk]

11. OIL, - - - that's why the US War-Machine is over there,

.
.
.

There are MANY countries with bad leaders (including the USA, mind ya)

But they ain't gonna get the attention of the USA's benevolent War-Machine if they don't have something the USA wants.

And right now it is oil.

Water is next.

[global1]

12. Thank All Of You For Your Comments On This - Here's How I Responded To My Friend......

I got your e-mail and it touched off something in me. I don't normally respond to these circulating and recirculating e-mails - but felt that I had to with this one. Who is Bxxxxxx Jxxxxxx? Who is Dxx Dxxx? Who are Bxxx Jxxxxx, Kxxxxxxx Zxxxx and Pxxxxx Kxxxxxxx? Does anybody really know who these people are that originated this e-mail?

I went to the website cited in the e-mail to see if I could verify any of the statements. It is our own Dept of Defense website. I couldn't find any of the statements that were made in the e-mail at this website. I noodled around it for quite some time and came up empty with the exact statements that were made in this e-mail. If they are cited at this website - I would like to know where - because I agree - things look good based on what was stated in the e-mail. But I can't verify them. I wonder how many people that received this e-mail tried to verify these statements at the attached website?

In fact with a little checking on the internet - I found out that this e-mail has been circulating for a couple of years now. If things are so good in Iraq - how come we're still there? How come we had to send in more troops for the surge since then? How come this e-mail is still circulating? How come George W. Bush doesn't hold a news conference and show and tell us all these wonderful things? Surely he has the power to do that and the media would broadcast it. After all - he is our president. It's beside the fact that he only has a 19% approval rating.

Visit this site: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp and see what they have to say about this e-mail.

Like the e-mail says - our media doesn't tell us many things.

Here are some more things that the media doesn't show or tell us to any great extent.

Our U.S. infrastructure is crumbling. Close to 50 million people without healthcare in the U.S. Bush vetoed the SCHIP bill that would have insured children. Unemployment is rising -and we're sending our jobs overseas. In fact - just last night I heard that some big contract worth billions to replace 'tankers' was awarded to Airbus overseas and that this means we'll lose another 40,000 jobs in the U.S. because our government wouldn't award this contract to U.S. based firms. Schools in the U.S. are deteriorating and are being closed. People can't afford to send their kids to college. Academic standards are depreciating in the U.S. The dumbing down of America. Did you ever notice that the kids that wait on you at the store can't make change unless they are told by the cash registers. Electrical grids are in peril throughout this country - witness the blackouts in Ohio and Florida. We have a subprime loan crisis. The housing bubble has burst. We have a shaky stock market with real frightened investors. A recession is looming - though our president won't admit it. Our dollar is trading lower and lower every day against foreign currencies. Prices for everything going up - gas, food, healtcare, etc. All this at a time when us baby boomers are facing retirement after we've saved all our lives and put money into the stock market, IRA's, our homes, etc. We're watching this savings dwindle before our eyes. We're losing our freedoms. We're being spied on. We now torture people and don't abide by the Geneva Convention. McCain says we'll be in Iraq for 100 years. We're making overtures to do the same to Iran.

Need I go on? I could.

Well what about the war? What has this war has cost us - in terms of lives and money?

Here's a piece from the Australian media - because our U.S. media won't tell us this we have to look elsewhere:

Iraq war 'caused slowdown in the US'
Source: The Australian

THE Iraq war has cost the US 50-60 times more than the Bush administration predicted and was a central cause of the sub-prime banking crisis threatening the world economy, according to Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

The former World Bank vice-president yesterday said the war had, so far, cost the US something like $US3trillion ($3.3 trillion) compared with the $US50-$US60-billion predicted in 2003.

Australia also faced a real bill much greater than the $2.2billion in military spending reported last week by Australian Defence Force chief Angus Houston, Professor Stiglitz said, pointing to higher oil prices and other indirect costs of the wars.

Professor Stiglitz told the Chatham House think tank in London that the Bush White House was currently estimating the cost of the war at about $US500 billion, but that figure massively understated things such as the medical and welfare costs of US military servicemen.

The war was now the second-most expensive in US history after World War II and the second-longest after Vietnam, he said.

Read more: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,2328...


And I ask what could have happened here in the U.S. if we spent this money for our purposes?

Here's a little fact that was left out of the e-mail in question.

This war's gravest toll has been paid in blood. Fighting in Iraq has so far taken the lives of 3,973 U.S. troops and left nearly 29,300 wounded. Its staggering expense, however, has dwarfed the 2003 White House war estimate of $60 billion, and the price is rising. We are neglecting the veterans that come back from these wars and are not taking care of them. There are countless horror stories out there that talk about these neglected war hero's. And here's an afterthought - the suicide rate it rising in these veterans. Google "Walter Reed", "suicide rates of Iraqi veterans". "homeless veterans", "lack of medical care for veterans", etc, and you can find out more that our media isn't telling us about these brave troops that are risking their lives for us and being taken advantage of by our government in return.

And how many years have we've been fighting in Iraq? Look at a Thursday, Feb 28, 2008 headline in USA TODAY.

"Concerns Widen On Waits For Iraq Gear"
This article goes on to say that "Four U.S. Senators have asked the Defense Department (the very same Department that had the link in the e-mail) for a sweeping review of the Pentagon's failures to quickly get troops in Iraq "the best possible equipment", including armoured vehicles that protect against some of the most lethal types of roadside bombs. This request, contained in a letter sent Wednesday to Defense Secretary Rober Gates, comes eight months after a USA TODAY investigation showed top Pentagon officials repeatedly balked at requests from troops in Iraq for Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, or MRAP's.

Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2008-02-27-MRAP_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

We still don't have the equipment there to keep our troops safe after how many years we've been in Iraq? SAD.

And here's a recent article from MSNBC

Iraq casualties rise again after Qaeda bombs

Source: MSNBC

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Violent civilian deaths in Iraq rose 36 percent in February from the previous month after a series of large-scale bombings blamed on al Qaeda, Iraqi government figures showed on Saturday.

A total of 633 civilians died violently in February, compared with 466 in January, according to figures released by Iraq's interior, defense and health ministries. It was the first increase after six consecutive months of falling casualty tolls.

Despite its sharp rise, the February 2008 figure was still dramatically lower than the 1,645 civilians who died violently in the same month a year ago. A total of 701 civilians were wounded, compared with 2,700 a year ago.

Declining civilian casualties have been hailed by Iraqi and U.S. military officials as proof that new counter-insurgency tactics adopted last year have been working and Iraq is safer.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080301/ts_nm/iraq_dc

Here's something direct from the region - by someone that has lived and still lives there. It is a little dated but something from someone that is experiencing things firsthand.

May 27, 2007
"Baghdad is a smashed city..."
Below is an email received from a translator Abu Talat. While he has fled Baghdad with his family and is now a refugee in Syria, he recently had to return to Baghdad in order to try to salvage what is left of his former life (his car, belongings from his house, etc.) before returning back to Syria. His note is instructive as to the current living conditions in the capital city of Iraq. Here is the full text of his message:


Habibi…

Baghdad is a SMASHED city…no roads to drive on…most of them are closed off by concrete obstacles with concertina wire. In addition, the presence of the Iraqi military, who cover their faces with black masks and hold their guns in such a way that when you see them you will definitely be afraid that they will shoot you.

The shops in most of the area I went to see are closed. I asked one of the shop owners I know, 55-year-old Abu Fadhil, since I heard that his shop was robbed. I found his door closed and locked and he was nowhere to be found.

Later, on my way to Sadr City, I found that two of the three roads which lead all the way from south to north Baghdad are either partially or totally closed in some places. You still remember the highways in Baghdad…well now most of them are closed, or at least fenced off with obstacles, yet they say there is some progress in the security situation inside the city! Everyday two or three cars explode across Baghdad, killing big numbers of civilians.

When I returned to my neighborhood of al-Adhamiya, I couldn’t get in unless the soldiers checked my ID and my car, even though the guards are from the same neighborhood and they know me personally. But they had to check it to ensure that no car bombs might happen. Nevertheless, daily mortars shell my neighborhood and those are out of control, despite this concrete wall placed by the Americans which now surrounds our neighborhood. Despite all that they do, they cannot bring security to our small neighborhood.

Needless to say, Baghdad has been changed into THE CITY OF GARBAGE. You can find it everywhere. You can smell the stench of dead bodies wherever you go.

Talking of electricity, there is now only one hour daily. That’s it. From where we’re staying in the city center, in Bab al-Muadham, I can see from the balcony that people sleep nearly naked on their rooftops because it is so hot and there is no electricity to run fans or air conditioners. Thank God that there are two large generators that maintain electricity in our building.

Everyday by 2-3 pm the buildings where we are staying are closed so that noone can leave or enter. That way it is kept secure, and this is how it remains until the next morning.

As far as my family life in this condition, we are as though we are in jail from 2-3 pm until the second morning where the doors are opened at 7 am.

My son goes to the hospital to work, but for the last two days he finds it without any running water. For the last 2 weeks, as he told me, the hospital has been without any air conditioning and almost without patients, although it’s the biggest hospital in Iraq.

My sons wife, who is also a doctor, has to go to another hospital just to try to assist since there is a drastic lack of Gynecologists. She stays in her hospital for three days continuously before my son picks her up with his car on the fourth day to bring her home, in order to insure her safety so she doesn’t have to take a bus or taxi.

As for my daughter, she has not passed out the doorway of this apartment where we are staying for the last week except for one time for some work she had to accomplish.

My wife left here only once, when she went to her job (which she has been on leave from since we left to Syria) in order to apply for a full year vacation. Thank God she got it.

As for me, I found my car ruined, so I had to repair it. For that I called the mechanic to come to my home and repair it, since I couldn’t take the car to him since all the mechanics shops are closed and there is no place to have a car repaired. All of those shops are totally closed.

When I saw the mechanic he said, “We cannot live anymore, and there is no job we can find.”

Dahr, this short letter gives you just a glance of the current situation in Baghdad. With the next letter I will tell you some more.

Posted by Dahr_Jamail at May 27, 2007 05:40 PM

Here are a couple of videos. Granted these are a little old too - but the sentiments expressed are real and still true today. They happened on both coasts of this country. I probably could come up with more recent videos and from middle America and more recent - but these hold up well. Look at the amounts of people in the videos that took part. The media didn't show us this. Listen to what the returning G.I.'s are saying. Listen to the parents of kids that died there are saying.

Veterans Against The War - New York
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=248vX9K9qT4


Iraq Vets Against the War & Vets For Peace Lead Peace March - San Francisco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hURkv05u_rM

The big question that I ask - Is All This Worth It?

Here's where I'm at today about this:

"I don't want to just end the war, I want to end the mind-set that got us into war in the first place." -Barack Obama

I don’t know if that can be done, but don’t we have to try?

John McCain thinks this war was a good idea. He wants us in Iraq indefinitely, or forever, whichever comes first.

Hillary though she says she regrets her vote (probably more because it will cost her the presidency versus what this war has done to the United States) refuses still to call her vote to authorize war a mistake.

Obama seems to be the only one who sees the big picture?

The war against “radical Islamic extremists” is NOT, as McCain tried to argue, “the transcendent challenge of the 21st century.”

The real transcendent challenge is to change “the mind-set that got us into war in the first place”

If we don’t, we’ll get more of the same.

This issue trumps all others.

All others!

Barack Obama is the one remaining viable presidential candidate from either side that will even suggest that we need to change our mind-set about war.

We have to give him the chance.

Sorry for going on and on about this. I'm obsessed with all of this. I've become a political wonk. No - I wasn't in the armed forces. I didn't fight in Viet Nam. So I guess I'm not a patriot and don't have the right to state my case these days because of that.

But I still hold true to my feelings back then during Viet Nam days and today.

War Is Bad.

George Orwell in his novel 1984 tried to warn us of what could happen to governments.

This Bush administration has for the last 7+ years tried to do the same.

War is Peace.

Freedom is Slavery.

and

Ignorance is Strength.

Well I can't buy into that. Sorry.

[GardeningGal]

14. Excellent response.

You'll have to post if you get any replies.

[global1]

15. Here's The Response - I've Taken Names Out To Protect The Innocent......

Hi:

I got this e-mail from XXXXX's parents who as you know have a daughter in the military.

Believe me, I can't stand Bush. I'm sorry I voted for him. Actually, with this new election coming quickly I have no idea who I would like to see as president. I'm tired of the accusations on all sides, and the mud slinging just makes me sick. All candidates can promise the world and they are going to fix everything and then they get in office and don't do a darn thing. I HATE POLITICS!!!!!

I originally sent this to XXXXX and he said to send it to you because he knew he would get a rise out of you. I guess I did, sorry. Actually I really don't know what to believe anymore.

AND HERE WAS MY RESPONSE BACK

Hi Again:

Don't be sorry. It gave me a chance to do a little research and express my feelings about this. Don't hate politics. Don't let them get to you.

This election coming up is probably the most important election in our lifetimes. Unfortunately - the damage Bush has done will last for generations. It will effect your kids and their kids more than us. I'm really glad that this country seems to be awakening from the last 7+ years of damage. I'm glad the youth are getting involved - as they have to - because it is them that are going to be hurting.

I don't think McCain has a chance. Bush spoiled that for him and the Republicans. A Democrat will win the presidency. Whichever one wins - it will be historic. The first woman president or the first black president. We've come a long way baby.

I happen to be supporting Obama. Not because I don't want a woman as president - but my thinking goes like this.

George H.W.Bush Sr. 4yrs + William Jefferson Clinton 8yrs. + George W. Bush Jr. 8 years that equals 20 years. Some of the youth don't know any other president than a Bush or Clinton. If Hillary wins - that is either another 4 or 8 yrs - all by the same two families. So we have 24 or 28 years of domination by these two families.

They all have their friends and enemies. We can expect if Hillary wins she will bring in a number of the same people from her husband's administration into hers. The same people keep on being recycled. Just like Bush Jr did bringing in people from his father's administration. The gridlock in the Congress will continue and we will not accomplish much going forward. This country can't survive another 4 to 8 years of gridlock.

Obama changes that equation. He'll shake things up - simply because he is not a Bush or Clinton and will bring in a whole new crowd that's intent on getting this country moving forward. If we hear that people in general don't like change - that is even amplified in Washington. That's why they don't want Obama.

We - our generation - were fortunate. We were energized like this in our lifetime with JFK. He rallied the youth and gave us hope - until he was killed. We also saw the likes of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King and were inspired.

Obama to me offers the inspiration and charisma of a John Kennedy. He has the smarts of a Robert Kennedy. And he has the oratory abilities and vision of a Martin Luther King. He is a man of color. He's had a background from the hood to Harvard. He's live life. He's a family man with a real smart and impressive wife (that in her own right could be president - did you ever listen to her being interviewed or speak?) He has two daughters that will be subject to the damages of the generations going forward that I spoke about above. He's not afraid to use diplomacy. And despite what you hear - he's had plenty of experience to be where he is today. He's run almost a perfect campaign. He's hasn't had to go negative. He's been straight up with us.

To me he's in the right place at the right time in this point in history - where all over the world - people are losing hope. He offers hope and change. And if you read the news from around the world - a lot of people from a lot of countries are pulling for him It's almost like destiny.

I hope he becomes the Democratic nominee. He will get my vote.

People in Washington D.C. will try to discredit him any way they could. They don't want their gravy train being disrupted. If you think this primary season has been contentious - wait until you see and hear what will come during the run-up of the General Election in Nov '08. It will get worse.

All I know is that we have some 300+ days left of Bush's administration - and I pray that he doesn't pull more crap and get us in more trouble. He is a liar, a war criminal and he should be impeached along with Cheney.

I follow all of this real closely - and like the e-mail you passed on said - the media isn't telling us everything. If people only got halfway inquisitive - they'd see for themselves what Bush and his administration has been doing to us over these years. It hasn't stopped and is still going on today. I could go on and cite a number of more things that are going on. It will all eventually come out - unfortunately - probably after his presidency - when people don't feel threatened by him to speak out.

It's interesting to note that a number of his cohorts in this mess are no longer around. They have quietly slipped behind the scenes almost like they didn't exist from the start. Rumsfeld, Libby, Rove, Gonzalez - to name a few there are countless more - neocons and PNAC signatories - a whole slew of them that can be named that are laying low. Why? Hmmm.

I'm going to stop here.

This got me fired up this morning - and I thank you for doing that to me. It's helping me vent and helping me by making me feel real confident in my thinkings and decisions.

Thanks,

Global1

[yurbud]

16. Al Franken had best response to this: why didn't we hear about good things going on HERE on 9/11?

How many kids learned to read or got a job?

Maybe because it's hard to see that good stuff when you are watching people getting blown up.

and everyday is 9/11 in Iraq.

Plus, they just pulled those numbers out of their asses.

[northzax]

17. you know, on September 11, 2001

I received a letter confirming my scholarship to graduate school AND that morning (early on) my girlfriend told me she loved me, the first time an adult not related to me had said that. Funny, those things, both wonderful, are not what I remember about that day, you know?

[yurbud]

19. that sucks. the only worse would be being born that day.

[gratuitous]

18. And all it cost was a trillion dollars

Several hundred thousand Iraqi lives.

Several thousand American, British and other foreign nationals' lives

And habeas corpus.

And the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

And the Fourth Amendment.

And the Fifth Amendment.

And the Sixth Amendment.

And serious damage to the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments.

And our obligations under the Geneva Conventions and other international treaties.

But Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit now. That they didn't need prior to 2003. And we really don't know how effective it will be. And they might even turn the weapons we supplied them on our own people, like other units we've trained have done. But it was all worth it.