Price of gas causing truckers to start parking their rigs

[NightWatcher]

The cost of filling a tank has gone from $750 to more than $1100.
http://www.thecoastalsource.com/news/local/15960582.html

http://media.thecoastalsource.com/images/cheap+gas1.jpg

Truck drivers protesting gas prices. With fuel prices on the rise, one man is out of a job, and is speaking up. WJCL's Candace McCowan has the story.

“I don't have no job and I got a loan payment coming up $600 of which I don't have a penny of."

Eddie Hudson is put out. This trucker of 33 years was laid off Friday -- hauling lumber is no longer making money because of soaring gas prices. He along with family and friends are protesting with their trucks and signs on the side of US 84. These truckers say what used to cost $750 to fill up last year, now cost a whopping eleven hundred dollars

Franklin Burch is a local tobacco, cotton and peanut farmer. He says he is sharpening his pencil and figuring out how he is going to make a profit this year.

“We start irrigating in the summer we run 1000, 1500 gallons a week.”

These truck drivers say at most they are making a dollar and ten cents a mile, which they say barely pays for gas, not to mention the mortgage and groceries. Even worse, these guys say truckers are sacrificing maintaining the trucks, not even buying tires, and making the road dangerous for everyone.

[NashVegas]

1. Look For Barge Traffic to Pick Up in a Big Way

If it hasn't already. Ingram has orders in for a new fleet.

[donco]

16. O.......barge delivery ,ok. nt

[Tesha]

93. Intermodal (rail, barge, truck, etc.) was largely sacrificed to the Highway Lobby.

But look for it to make a big come-back as the much higher
ton-load fuel mileage of trains and barges starts to become
evident once again.

Tesha

[DainBramaged]

130. The highway lobby? When in the 50's and 60's when the interstates

became THE mode for transportation? I play Railroad Tycoon I II and III too, but the grand days of barges and railroads are over. NO ONE is going to go to the railroad station and rifle through a box car for groceries.

[wolfgangmo]

132. Actually it can work. You are not thinking it through

Intermodal will work. We can have car free cities. Mostly. Think of all that primo realestate going to waste through the use of too many cars and streets.



Check out this link. http://www.carfree.com/index.html

[DainBramaged]

133. So we should tear up our highways and streets

And pack into public transportation like lemmings, having only our housing for privacy?


That was the grand scheme for Japan too. Didn't work.

Oh, and who pays??? How do you get people to give up cars and trucks, outlaw them?

[Tesha]

166. Congestion charges. Tear up and *NARROW* the streets. Build Transit.

Have you ever been to Zermatt, Switzerland?

Tesha

[Bluenorthwest]

167. Been to Zermatt.

Have you been to Dallas? Los Angeles? Sao Palo?
Zermatt, gemutlichkeit, but not exactly a teaming metroplex.

[Tesha]

174. But it suggests another way we could live.

Within a city, private vehicles may turn out to be
a luxury the world can't afford. And maybe suburbia
is another such luxury...

Tesha

[cornermouse]

186. Oh sure.

Everyone should live in the city and be cheek to jowl with their neighbors just like you apparently are. :sarcasm:

If it works for you that's fine. Not everyone is like you and not everyone can stand to live in either an apartment or a situation where they can look out their window into someone else's window or the reverse. And possibly it's different where you are, but even if you live in one of the cities where I am residential areas tend to be quite a distance from commercial areas. I know I go to the store once a week at the most and bring home far too many bags to carry on a bus or other mode of transport.

[Tesha]

190. If your offered the choice of that or starvation, you may lose your sarcastic attitude.

The world is changing, and it may change dramatically and
rapidly. We may be offered a stark choice: change or die.

In the worst case scenario, we won't be offered any choice
at all, we'll just die. Given the way Americans look at things
and their distinct attitude of "Everything's just fine, no
need to prepare at all or change the way *I* live", the worst
case scenario looks all too likely.

Ah well...

Tesha

[cornermouse]

192. It don't work that way Tesha.

I don't know if you noticed, but there's a lot more murder in those big cities than there out in the outskirts. A long time ago, before we started coming up with all these organizations that are little more than fronts, there was a study that said there would be a higher rate of murder in areas with very dense population.

Not everyone is suited to that way of life. We'll just have to find another way.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Not good at all.The gov't goes out of its way to subsidize a lot of

groups I don't think it should (like massive trans-national corporations), but this may well be a case where it ought to.

[NightWatcher]

4. but most of these guys are owners/operators, they are self employed and pay all their bills

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. No reason not to help them out, especially if their situation will have a bearing on the economy

[fed-up]

18. the Oil Company execs and stockholders should help them out/not taxpayers nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. That works, but you know it would still have to be the gov't to force them to do it. No way

they would on their own, greedy bums.

[Tesha]

94. How 'bout if they spend all day listening to Right Wing talk radio and voting Republican?

At what point do we let people lie in the beds they've
so consistently, persistently made over the years?

Tesha

[A HERETIC I AM]

40. "Most of these guys"? As in most of the guys mentioned in the article? Or most truckers?

Most truck drivers are NOT Owner Operators. OO's make up around 10% of the American over-the-road fleet. The rest are "company drivers" and as such, do not have to pay for fuel out of pocket.

[Mugu]

49. These trucks are causing global climate change.

Anything that stops them saves the planet.

Regards, Mugu

[liberal4truth]

64. So are the millions of humans born each year. Whatever happened to "population control"?

6.6 Billion humans and rising each year!

Thats a lot of fuel, food and even more pollution on this planet, is it not?

[DainBramaged]

65. Right, so how so do you get the goods you need to live without trucks?

I've see dumb ass comments before, but yours takes the cake. Oh, and these are diesel trucks not gas trucks or nuclear powered trucks.


Maybe you can be self-sufficient and grow your own, make your own electricity to power your computer? Heat your home?

I'm wasting my time even trying to explain to you.

[Tesha]

95. Trucks are fine for local delivery, but do the long-haul shipping via rail and barge.

Maybe you should work for Electro-Motive Diesel instead of GM?

Tesha

[DainBramaged]

99. The railroads do not go everywhere, all deliveries are local

Next

[Tesha]

100. Railroads used to, and still go many places, and will go everywhere again.

And didn't GM have something to do with the demolition
of intra- and interurban transit lines?

Tesha

[DainBramaged]

101. No, (lack of) customer demand caused this country to abandon the railroads

in the Fifties. And if you think there will be a resurgence, why can't Amtrak make a profit? America drive everywhere. It's what they think is their right.


PS, blame GM for the world's woes. We don't care.

(edit for additional content)

[Ikonoklast]

120. Rail is not the magic answer

Unless you are willing to give the largest subsidies in the history of this nation to acquire the real estate by eminent domain for rail use, forget rail for moving retail goods and finished products to market.

That hub and spoke style of freight distribution was replaced for a reason; it wasn't efficient at delivering freight in a timely or cheaper manner. It involves having warehouses to carry inventory on hand not only for immediate delivery, but back inventory, and adding many steps (costs) before the end user ever sees the product.

The costs associated with the taxes owed on inventory owned in your warehouses alone cancels out any reason to carry such inventory.

Railroads are the biggest corporate welfare queens after the oil industry that this country has ever seen. Without massive government subsidies to get started, rail would not have been profitable for many a year after inception. Read about the history of rail, and the robber barons who raped and pillaged the Treasury to get their way, the lands with valuable minerals and timber they stole, and those in government complicit in those crimes.

But in the final analysis, shippers aren't stupid. If rail was CHEAPER to move their products right now this very minute, the product would move by rail. The truth is that it isn't cheaper or more efficient to move much besides bulk commodities by rail.

[idovoodoo]

127. Cheap isn't the only term in the equation...quick is a bigger one to many people.

We're used to getting what we want and equally importantly WHEN we want it. Yesterday was too damn late, knowwhatImean?

"No, idiot, I don't want it tomorrow, if I did, I'd ORDER it tomorrow!!!"

:D

[liberal4truth]

69. I guess you dont like to eat or wear anything, do you? No Trucks=No Full Stores.

[tabatha]

3. and the dumb piece of crap in the white house

says that republicans will win back the WH in 2008.

[Mythsaje]

5. Fuel prices are going to be a much bigger issue

than they realize, I think. People are SICK of it, and if the prices happen to go down before the election, it's not going to fool anyone with even 1/4 of a brain left.

[lonestarnot]

6. They should park them in the middle of the fucking freeway.

[idovoodoo]

10. Oh, that will please people no end. How long do they park there?

And how will it help?

[lonestarnot]

15. Shut the fucking place down until somebody fixes it. Park right in the fucking middle.

[idovoodoo]

20. Ah, yes. Shut the fucking country down. And who is this mysterious "somebody"

who can magically restore billions of barrels of oil in all those holes?

[lonestarnot]

25. No one said anything about putting oil in any holes. Just shut this shit down until

we come up with something better. We already have alternate technology. Horses, mules, and buggies.

[idovoodoo]

28. Your solution is horses, mules and buggies?

With ideas like that you should run for president. :eyes:

[lonestarnot]

37. I haven't heard you offer a fucking solution and you're too much of a chickenshit to

get into a rig let alone park it so don't roll your bloodshot eyes at me.

[idovoodoo]

51. I can drive a "rig" if I want to. I don't. Meanwhile, how does parking yours in the middle

of the "fucking road" as you so eloquently put it, do anything to help the problem? I am all ears.

[lonestarnot]

86. I know an even better place for a rig at this moment in time.

[idovoodoo]

88. Tell your uncle dad I said hi.

...

[lonestarnot]

137. your motherfucking head.

[idovoodoo]

148. Pardon me, I had you confused with somebody with a brain.

So sorry, pookie. I can't imagine why you want to be a Democrat.

[lonestarnot]

149. Wish I had heard you the first time mm.

[Alcibiades]

48. It's what they would do in France

It would help if they had signs saying things such as "this is what happens when you vote republican."

[idovoodoo]

54. The republicans are responsible for plenty of shit without blaming the consumption of gas

on them. Maybe nobody else around here uses hydrocarbon energy but this Democrat does. :eyes:

[Alcibiades]

145. Gas when Clinton left office: $1.47

Less than half of what it is today. Seven years of Bush policies show up at the gas pump and on Exxon-Mobil's quarterly profit reports. This thread discussed the high cost of fuel for truckers. Maybe you don't think so, but I think that Cheney's energy plan and the invasion of Iraq might have something to do with that.

Sorry if blaming Republicans for the consequences of their bad policies bothers you. Might I suggest that you stop looking quite so hard for things at which to take offense? It lowers the blood pressure, and you might even make more friends. :hi:

[liberal4truth]

68. Just think: we could have all those truckers making horsewhips again...

I mean that IS where the Teamsters Union started out, way back when........

[hootinholler]

74. WHat is the average airspeed velocity of a laden budgie?

:rofl:

'Ats not a 'orse, yer just clacking 2 coconuts togever!

-Hoot

[BelgianMadCow]

80. European or African budgie?

that was a hoot :D

great accent you did there to :-)

[Popol Vuh]

75. Actually that's fucking brilliant

No really. It'll force people to implement all the alternatives we already have available instead of pussyfooting around.

I bow to your wisdom.

:smoke:

[newfie11]

168. Hey I have horses and mules I will sell.

If course hay is almost as high as oil.

[SammyWinstonJack]

91. That's such a French thing to do!

:evilgrin: Good idea, though.

[LanternWaste]

83. Henry David Thoreau's 'Civil Disobedience' would be a good primer

"And how will it help?"

How does civil disobedience help bring awareness to a perceived inequity? Look to Gandhi. Look to South Africa. Look to the American Civil Rights movement. Or Egypt in 1919.

Henry David Thoreau's 'Civil Disobedience' would be a good primer for the answers you appear to be searching for...

[windbreeze]

85. The time to park them trucks is NOW!!

Until the problem is solved, because obviously nothing and no one is making an effort to solve it otherwise...you think there's a need for us to be paying this much for gas or diesel? Those oil companies are not posting record profits for no reason...when you can't find anything on the shelves at your local store, then maybe it will come home to you...that the TRUCKS are the ones that move products from point A to point B...and out here where I live...DIESEL is almost $4.00 a gallon....which is HIGHWAY ROBBERY!! There is NO OTHER NAME for it...I wonder how upset the locals will get when there is NO FOOD on the shelves??? Solve it now, or solve it later...I figure it could get damned bloody before it's over....called population control by starvation, brought to you by your very own government and WITH THEIR FULL COOPERATION......wb

[lildreamer316]

62. No, park them in front of oilmen's offices.

Wherever they can find them.
Of course, that would include 1700 Pennsylvania Ave.; but you know what I mean.

[A HERETIC I AM]

119. Why would you suggest they park in front of this building?

1700 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC. 20502

Not sure what that would do, besides piss off the brokers at Ferris Baker & Watts.

Maybe if they moved down the block to this place

[kster]

63. Now that would be a powerfull statement

park them 53 footers ACROSS every intersection in the country f*CK em, shut the godamn place down.

:toast:

[liberal4truth]

67. Yeah, that way when you go shopping, the shelves will be bare because no one trucked it in.

That makes sense......not !

[SammyWinstonJack]

92. No sacrifice for change? Is that what you are saying? There are other ways of transporting goods

while the truckers fight this. Trains and they get much better mileage.

[liberal N proud]

8. I think they all should just pull their truck out on the highways and park them

A mass park in protest.
Better yet, circle the wagons around Washington, gridlock the beltway. Maybe someone would get the message what these high prices are doing to this nation.

[idovoodoo]

11. What would be a fair price for gas (or diesel)?

It's a serious question. Should it be half what the rest of the world (most of it) pays?

[spag68]

14. gas prices

Before you spout off about gas prices in Europe and elsewhere, you should find out why they pay so much. You will find that especially in Europe the difference is taxes on fuel. Over there they already meet our fuel economy standards for 2018.

[idovoodoo]

19. I'm very much aware of the factors that make up the price of hydrocarbons...

it's how I have made a living for 40+ years, and I didn't "spout off"...I asked a question. If you aren't interested in answering it (not that you were asked to begin with), please refrain from accusing me of something I didn't do.

[conscious evolution]

77. You were in the oil industry?

How telling.

[idovoodoo]

90. Still am. I worked my butt off in the oil fields since I was in junior high school

so you could fill up your Volvo.

[conscious evolution]

107. Thanks.I appreciate it.

Otherwise it would be a long walk to the coffee house to sip on my latte with my New York Times reading,Holywood loving,body pierced,left-wing freak friends while we discuss raising your taxes while we decide on which sushi restaurant in Vermont we should have dinner at..

Once again,Thank you very much.

[SammyWinstonJack]

108. He had that coming too him.

:thumbsup:

[idovoodoo]

112. Did you buy stock in an o factory?

:eyes:

[idovoodoo]

111. Your latte would be cold too.

phreak

[conscious evolution]

113. !!111!11! OMFG!11!!1CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!11!

Hippy freak would be a better description of me.

[idovoodoo]

114. I'm just not very happy to be thought of as some asshole because of what I do for

a living. It's not like I run Exxon...getting oil out of the ground is perfectly honorable work. And I've done it a hell of a lot better than the prick squatting in our White House.
edit---by the way I drive a Volvo

[conscious evolution]

117. Its not so much what you do

for a living.It is your use of riechwing talking points that have people in an uproar.

Also,down thread,you posted this-"Like it or not the laws of supply and demand still determine the price of commodities."
The laws of supply and demand only work when hidden forces do not manipulate the supply side of the equation.(Either side of the equation for that matter.)California's electrical crisis in 2000 is an excellant example of what happens when people manipulate supplies for their personal benefit.
Another example is the fuel shortages after Katrina shut down several refineries.The riechwingers were blaming the tree huggers because no new refineries have been built in the last twenty or so years.
Funny how they never mentioned the several dozen refineries the oil companies shut down during the ninties.

[idovoodoo]

118. The California electric thing was pretty significant but it was far from global, like the oil

situation is. I don't see how pointing out that oil is a finite resource is a "reichwing talking point." Maybe it is but it shouldn't be since it's true - and I take some umbrage at hearing mention of global warming/climate change labelled as "leftwing propaganda." I'm not aware of the details on all those refineries being shut down...do you have a list handy?

[conscious evolution]

124. The volvo comment

is the riechwing TP.Hence my reply.

At one time I actually had a list of closed refineries but god only knows where it is now.I do seem to remember getting it from a list someone posted here once but i may be mistaken on where I got it.
Anyway,here is a link to a quick google search on shut down refineries-http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+refineries+closed+down&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&start=0&sa=N
Seems I was wrong on the number shut down.Instead of dozens it seems that over a hundred have ceased operations.
Of particular interest are these two stories I found that explain what happened-http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Group_Internal_memos_show_oil_companies_limited_refineries_to_drive_up__0907.html
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/pr/?postId=5110

The three internal memos from Mobil, Chevron, and Texaco (Click here to read the memos.) show different ways the oil giants closed down refining capacity and drove independent refiners out of business. The confidential memos demonstrate a nationwide effort by American Petroleum Institute, the lobbying and research arm of the oil industry, to encourage the major refiners to close their refineries in the mid-1990s in order to raise the price at the pump.

[idovoodoo]

126. Okay I can see that but I actually do drive Volvos (2 of them, 1 is 26 years old)

I'm pretty much retired from the 'awl bidness' and my income consists of royalties ('residuals') from the work I did over the years. My dad and I had our -own- oil company...an infinitesimal fraction of the size of Shell, Mobil or whoever...those companies only really -got- huge by simply buying up little independents. We hung onto our little piece of the pie...rather than selling out to them, but I don't really blame those who did...checks with lots of zeroes on them are damn effective tools. But here's the thing: even the megacorps can't control the inevitable depletion of their commodity which has the distinction of being the only one of its kind and also of being a one-shot deal, as it were.
The industry didn't exist 200 years ago and in 100 years from now it won't either. You can bet the bean counters know this and for good or evil they're maximizing what they can get from it while it lasts.

There really isn't much need to build new refineries...there won't be any stuff to put into them before long. As it is right now, we can refine pretty much all the crude we can get our hands on...it's just barely enough capacity but it IS enough to keep up. It wouldn't make much sense to build a facility to gather and market Dodo bird eggs either, I imagine.

[conscious evolution]

128. Volvo makes a good car

and making a profit is a good thing.
But when oil companies use their profits to buy politicians to start wars in order to steal other countries natural resources rather than reinvesting it in replacements for oil I,and many others,have a problem with it.

[idovoodoo]

129. I have problems with it too. I've posted a few times that I think we are crazy to NOT have been

gearing up a "Manhattan Project" for nuclear fusion. I could be full of shit but I am absolutely certain it is possible (I mean in a controlled manner - of course it's POSSIBLE, it's what runs the stars...) but nobody has had the dedication, ability and resources - all of which are necessary - to make it happen.

edit: by the way, thanks for not being a hysterical nutball on this subject. I'm trying to not be as well, it's just that my reservoir of diplomacy is running like really low lately...kinda like my oil wells. ;-)

[conscious evolution]

134. Fusion is easier than you think

Do a search in the energy forum here on DR.Broussards google talk on IEC fusion.If only the energy companies would drop a couple of dimes on it.

Wells running dry?Reinvest in solar!

[idovoodoo]

136. Actually, I'm familiar, somewhat, with the Broussard claims - I put them in the 'perpetual motion'

category but far be it from me to DIScourage research in that area! I'm too old to start a new career and I'll have plenty of money for the rest of my life from the old oil wells; they aren't dry yet. You'll love this: I just bought an airplane - it gets about 6 miles per gallon. :D

[liberal N proud]

22. Here we go with the gas prices are too low argument again

As price of gas go up so do the prices of everything else. That is called inflation.

Inflation is what is killing this economy on top of the mortgage crisis.

I just don't get it when people think that higher prices are going to fix the energy crisis. America isn't Europe, we have much further to drive than they do and communities are not set up by neighborhoods.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberal N proud]

32. You had to twist it didn't you

I didn't say we deserved cheap gas, I said that the inflation of gas prices was killing the economy.
You can't raise the price of gas and expect shipping cost to remain the same witch in turn is going to be passed on to everything you purchase. EVERYTHING!

But then the thought that raising the price is going to shorten the commute to work, the one where there is no mass transit system in place and none in the future either. I have to drive 4 miles to the nearest bus stop and then it in turn stop 3 mile from my work, or I can drive the 7 miles to work. Nothing impractical about that.
Mine and my wifes family live 1100 mile away, we only see them once a year now. Our daughter is 1400 miles away. I guess since their work has them separated from us we should just not see them any longer because we need to save the hydrocarbons.

Makes lots of sense.

[lonestarnot]

46. Apparently twisting in the wind. I wouldn't waste my breath if I were you.

The post count hasn't moved in a few posts that I have observed. :shrug: but then neither has mine LOL

[idovoodoo]

50. Well, nobody has managed to explain how shutting down the roadways will help to solve the problem.

Will that somehow increase the supply of oil? Like it or not the laws of supply and demand still determine the price of commodities. Sure there's speculation that sometimes unduly influences it in the near future but it still evens out according to the fundamental principle fairly quick.

To the extent gas prices drive inflation, that isn't something a politician, or a new president can 'fix' because it's not
caused so much by bad policy as by the behavior of way too many humans. I'm not sure you're willing to accept the most efficient solutions to THAT part of the problem.

[lonestarnot]

171. Well if they are shut down on the fucking highway which causes others to not use the hw, then there

will less demand for gas and more for mules to get around the trucks shut down on the hw.... dee dee dee econ 1 and 1/2

[lonestarnot]

17. Great minds think alike (see above)

:toast:

[liberal N proud]

24. I have been thinking they should do that for 3 years now

The truck drivers are hit the hardest of all in the gas price inflation.

They have no choice, quit or pass the buck.

[lonestarnot]

27. Or park the fucking truck. I thought we would see it when they opened the borders

to Mexican trucks. Whatever happened with that anyway?

[liberal N proud]

33. I thought they would blockade the border on that

Never heard anything about it.

[lonestarnot]

38. Is it still going on or was it haulted?

[liberal N proud]

41. Here is the latest I can find on the issue 2/12

Court hears lawsuit on program allowing Mexican trucks into U.S.

(02-12) 13:06 PST San Francisco (AP) --


A federal appeals court considered Tuesday whether the Bush administration can go ahead with a pilot program that allows a small number of Mexican trucks to travel freely on U.S. highways, despite a new law by Congress against it.


Members of the Teamsters Union and their supporters packed a courtroom at 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, where an apparently divided three-judge panel heard arguments in the case, which may boil down to the meaning of "establish."


Several tractor trailers also were parked outside the courthouse and union members and their supporters carried signs opposing the program, which allows participating Mexican trucking companies to send loads throughout the United States.
<snip>
Some 42 Mexican trucks owned by 12 carriers have entered the United States since the Bush administration launched the hotly contested program, which permits up to 500 trucks from 100 Mexican companies full access to U.S. roads.



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/02/12/state/n130620S69.DTL&type=health

[lonestarnot]

43. 2/12/08? If so, no ruling yet. Not long enough.

[idovoodoo]

57. haulted? Is that something like fahrted?

:eyes:

[lonestarnot]

139. Hoof Hearted asshole.

[fed-up]

21. BINGO! ....nt

[NickB79]

73. Protest what? That the world is running out of oil and we have no back-up plans?

We're already fucked, for what it's worth. We needed to be transitioning off of oil a decade or two ago, but we didn't. Now, there just isn't time left to make the switch while maintaining our standard of living, or preventing a massive die-off of humanity. Welcome to Peak Oil, the Long Emergency, whatever you want to call it.

[liberal N proud]

76. The sky is falling, the sky is falling so lets give all our money to the oil companies

Makes a lot of sense

[NickB79]

102. What part of "finite, non-renewable resource" is so hard to grasp?

Nope, we have plenty of oil, and Peak Oil is all a big conspiracy by the oil companies. Oil will never run out, it's produced 10 miles underground by magic oil trolls, but the damn oil companies are hiding them from us.

[liberal N proud]

103. Well here is the result - pay up..

U.S. producer prices soared in January - fastest pace in over 26 years

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23349559

[NickB79]

105. Yep, as the age of cheap oil comes to an end, we will all suffer

Globally, we owe our lives to the availability of cheap oil throughout the 20th century. Now that we've passed Peak Oil (and we did in 2005), it's all downhill. First prices go up for commodities, then recessions set in, then the wars, pestilence and famine set in in the developing worlds. Here in the US, we'll just settle into a deep, long recession.

Like I said, what are you going to protest? Geology? The finite nature of fossil fuels?

If you are actually interested in this issue, come over to the Environment/Energy board here on DU. We discuss topics like this quite frequently.

[liberal N proud]

106. Right now it is just the oil companies screwing us while the automakers

site on their asses doing nothing significant to solve the energy crisis.

Charging us $4 and $5 gallon for gasoline without providing alternatives is not going to ween us off the oil habit. I can't build an energy efficient car, but I don't see Detroit doing much either. Oh they put a Hybrid in an SUV.


The inflation will put many into poverty, to just accept that, is just wrong.

[CRF450]

155. The hybrid system in the SUV's is just for starters.

They're going impliment that same system into many other vechicles including their cars pretty soon.

[liberal N proud]

157. Meanwhile we will all be too cash strapped to afford one

Hybrids can only be a bridge to a more advanced system or it will not be enough

[NickB79]

161. The problem is that we needed to be working on this decades ago

Oil production is about to fall off a cliff in the next 2-3 years. In that short timeframe, a few hundred thousand more hybrid cars on the road won't make a dent in the problem, I'm afraid.

[idovoodoo]

9. It's a problem that is never going to "go away". The days of sub-$3 gas are

gone forever.

[originalpckelly]

12. What's unfair to these people is that they were tricked...

into becoming a cog is a dysfunctional machine. They should have been train drivers. Only rail is efficient for long/high tonnage hauls over land.

There really needs to be a retraining program to get them into train jobs, and help them out with the loans they have on their equipment.

[truedelphi]

23. Instead of a sensible train policy, we have offered so little

Funding for trains and even worse managaement of what goes on.

The oil people had control over these things long ago - remember the stories of how the trolley cars ran on electricity in major cities - and then one day - the tracks were dug up, cemented over, and the trolley cars disappeared.

[lonestarnot]

29. Yes. Big oil controls because we let them.

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. So, out of curiosity, how long have you been working in the transportation industry?

What's unfair to these people is that they were tricked into becoming a cog is a dysfunctional machine.

Yup. That's what happened to me. I went and applied for a job working in an office 25 years ago and they said, "you're hired! but do us a favor before you sit down at the desk and move that there truck for us". Next thing I knew I was a trucker. Did it for 20 years. Tricked, I tells ya.

They should have been train drivers.

Yes, because everyone knows there are 4 million locomotives rolling across this land. (there is a few over 20,000, and each one barely needs a single person to operate it.)

Only rail is efficient for long/high tonnage hauls over land.

Rail is most efficient if you have a lot of the same thing going to the same place. If time is of any concern, a tractor trailer beats the railroad for virtually any distance, all the time. Want to move a container from Long Beach to Chicago by rail? 5 day delivery. A little over 2.5 days for a truck with one driver. A little over 30 hours for 2 drivers. Want to know what the railroads are most efficient at moving? Coal. Coal and some grains. Anything else is just as labor intensive as using a truck and more than twice as slow.

There really needs to be a retraining program to get them into train jobs, and help them out with the loans they have on their equipment.

Yes, because the railroads are hiring tens of thousands of Locomotive drivers to drive the 20,000 or so available power units. Heaven forbid they hook more than 2 together on average, then you have just dropped the available jobs by 50%.

Until such time as there is a rail siding behind every grocery store in the US, we will need trucks.

Sorry to say this, originalpckelly, but you don't know what you're talking about.

edited for clarity

[Mojorabbit]

52. unless

we come up with a viable alternative fuel this is not going to get any better. I don't know what the answer is or even if there is one.

[CRF450]

56. I think it would be easier to switch to biodiesle.

[Mojorabbit]

59. Except there is a real

grain shortage worldwide. There is an ethical concern here.

[SammyWinstonJack]

109. Industrial Hemp.

[idovoodoo]

60. There is no absolute barrier that I know of, to safe and efficient fusion power

except the reluctance of corporations and governments to commit sufficient resources to invent/develop it.
Of course any technology is ultimately limited by the amount of energy that can be intercepted and/or extracted from
the Sun before it dies. Not like there will be "humans" then, though...

[Yellow Horse]

162. oooh like the "Mr. Fusion" device powering the Delorean at the end of "Back 2 The Future"

I always liked that scene. Seriously. Run your air-car on banana peels and beer -- whoo hoo!

[CRF450]

53. Agreed.

My brother has been driving trucks for 15 years, and I recently asked him a similar question about trains replacing most big rigs. Basically exactly what you said. He used to deliver goods for Burlington Transport around when he first started driving. Now he works for Eagle delivering fuel to gas stations.

[liberal4truth]

70. It amazes me how many people don't know how much freight today is moved by Intermodal locomotive.

..Power. And I mean general freight too, not just coal, gases or grains.

[A HERETIC I AM]

79. self delete

[A HERETIC I AM]

144. To hell with self delete, I want to know what an "Intermodal Locomotive" is.

Locomotives are not intermodal. They have one mode. Rails.

[liberal4truth]

156. Intermodal locomotives are those trailer cars that have truck trailers placed on them for ....

...transport across the country.

Thousands of truck trailers are hauled by freight trains in this manner from the west coast to the east coast and other locales each and every day and that means that lots of trucks are not on the road pulling these trailers down the highways.

[A HERETIC I AM]

158. Actually, no. Those "trailer cars" are known as "piggy back" rail cars.

and the operation or use of them is known as "TOFC" of "COFC" for "Trailer On Flat Car" or Container On Flat Car".

Truck trailers are moved using rail cars like the one pictured.

Containers are more often hauled in deep well, "double stack" rail cars like these


The trailers and containers are the intermodal shipment, NOT the rail car.

The Locomotive is the large, noisy thing at the front of the train (and sometimes at the end and occasionally in the middle), doing all the pulling.


And by the way, there is no single railroad company in this country - not one - that offers coast to coast services. If you have a trailer, or a hundred trailers or anything you want shipped by rail and you need it moved from LA to New York, you must contract with at least 2 different rail road companies to get it there.

[B Calm]

163. I know several owner operators making good money hooking up to

those containers with their trucks at the railroad yard. Then driving each and everyone of those containers another 400 to 500 miles to the customer.

[A HERETIC I AM]

165. No doubt. That is where the "Intermodal" part comes in to play.

As I said in a previous post, railroads are most efficient at moving a lot of the same thing to the same place. A trainload of Piggyback trailers or containers can be moved from LA to Chicago for a lot less money than by truck, but there is no way the railroads can efficiently deliver those containers and trailers to their individual destinations. They NEED the trucks to finish the job. Also, if time is at all a factor, as I mentioned, a truck can get a container or trailer across this country way faster that the railroads can.

Unfortunately, too many drivers like the OO's you mention don't make decent money doing that work. There was a story out of the Port of LA/Long Beach not too long ago about how the drayage operators there were getting screwed by the shippers, primarily because they weren't union and had to take whatever rate they were offered. Those guys are hauling containers right off the ships (obviously) and doing hauls of 500 miles or less as well, much of it in the LA basin or down to San Diego, north into the Central Valley, and as far away as Phoenix & Tucson, Flagstaff, Las Vegas and even up to Salt Lake City for an occasional "hot" load.

Where do the operators you know pull out of?

I've hauled plenty of piggyback trailers and containers in the past, too. Mostly in the Miami area out of both the Florida East Coast yard and the (what used to be) Seaboard Coast Line yard.

[liberal4truth]

176. And my point is still the same: Lots of freight is hauled in this manner no mattter what you call it

Yet to hear most folks talk, you would think it was a very small portion of
the freight transported in the US, compared to large long distant trucks.

[cornermouse]

187. Are you aware of the fact that in smaller towns built on both

sides of the rail are cut off for the period of time it takes a train to pass through? The city has talked to the railroad about building a bridge on one of the roads and railroad has not done anything. Apparently there has to be agreement and possibly also co-payments to build. Some of these trains have been quite long and the end result has been that on at least one well-known occasion the ambulance was unable to get across the tracks to a heart attack victim. The victim died. Possibly you consider this collateral damage? And then there are all the cars sitting there with idling engines at each of the crossings for the extended period of time it takes the train to pass by.

[jmowreader]

72. Train jobs? Great solution...

we also need more rolling stock and more rail, and the rail we have needs a lot of maintenance.

This isn't Europe. We don't HAVE the rail infrastructure we used to. We need it back, but I wonder if you could get sufficient right-of-way to build a proper rail system.

It's hard to retrain all the long-haul truckers into rail jobs, when there aren't enough rail jobs for them to have.

[muriel_volestrangler]

81. FWIW, the US carries far more freight by rail than the EU, already

Stats for 2005 and 2006 available here in XLS format, from the International Union of Railways: http://www.uic.asso.fr/stats/spip.php?article4

or here in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_usage_statistics_by_country

or graphically: http://www.worldmapper.org.nyud.net:8080/images/smallpng/34.png

The only part of Europe that uses a large amount of rail freight is Russia.

[LSK]

97. how does Europe move their stuff around?

[muriel_volestrangler]

98. More by road

There's a list here (I'm not entirely sure how accurate all of it is, though - I find the figure for Russia unbelievably low) - adding up the EU countries, the EU total is about 1,320 billion ton-km, compared to the US 2,034 billion ton-km. The US is still a bit more, because of the larger distances between the major population areas, but comparing it with the Nationmaster list for rail freight, you can see the US transports slightly more by rail (2,717 billion compared to 2,034), while the EU transports a lot more by road (1,320 billion compared to about 400).

This may not be so surprising - it's the real long distance stuff when rail really becomes efficient, in terms of cost - the extra time to unload something and transfer it to a local truck (assuming it's not going somewhere with a dedicated rail stop) matters less over long distances.

[midnight]

13. This does not sound good. We need them to move our food,

clothing, retail, and much much more. There should be some help to this industry.

[idovoodoo]

30. All we need is a lot more horses, mules and buggies.

:eyes:

[lonestarnot]

36. Well let's see what you come up with when we're way south of peak oil.

:eyes: No you can't ride with me. :kick:

[idovoodoo]

58. Jeezusfuckingchrist we are ALREADY on the 'south side' of peak oil

and some people want to keep on buying it cheap. Some of them in this very thread :eyes:

I guess commitment to responsible use of resources only applies to somebody ELSE...

[lonestarnot]

138. Where's your goddamn brilliant solution? Higher fucking gas prices.

Your daddy a rich bushitler oil freak?

[idovoodoo]

150. My daddy was a small independent oilman, I have been the same for 45 years.

We had no connection with the big companies who control the market...we worked our asses off to find a little oil here and there and sold it to people who wanted to run their cars and lawn mowers. If that makes us bad people, well, tough shit.

[lonestarnot]

151. I knew there was an oil connection and there is nothing tough about it.

Just shit.

[idovoodoo]

152. You hate me because I worked for years to produce oil? Is that what you're saying?

Wow.

[eShirl]

78. dammit, we've fallen behind the Amish!

:rofl:

[Initech]

34. And yet another sign of the Bush economy emerges. God damn it.

Thank god we (hopefully) only have one more year of this fucking bullshit.

[depakid]

39. We ain't seen nothin' yet

Years of cheap subsidized oil are coming to an end- and those on small margins (like truckers) are going to feel it 1st.

Next comes every business and household that depends on truckers....

[liberal4truth]

66. Bingo! And not just truckers but farmers too. Those farm tractors all use diesel fuel !

Food prices are skyrocketing even as we write.

[OwnedByFerrets]

42. The beginning of the end???

[lonestarnot]

44. or the beginning of a new start?

[ThomWV]

45. They don't park because the price of fuel has gone up, they park because their credit has run out

No more credit to buy fuel, that is what parks the trucks.

[demosincebirth]

47. thank you Mr. Bush

[mdmc]

55. I live near I84

sad to see the trucker hurting,,,

[eridani]

61. Bottom line--we have to invent the next energy economy, and fast

We can't do it while pissing away our resources trying to conquer a diminishing resource by force.

[Greyhound]

71. At some point it must become clear to even the thickest raygunomic

kool-aid drinker that the oil transport and refining companies will have to be thoroughly regulated as essential to national security and forced to operate under strict regulatory oversight. They have proved themselves to be rash, capricious, and in collusion since the days of John D.

This nation cannot operate without trucks to haul everything, period. This rampant gouging and utterly transparent manipulation of the market cannot be allowed to continue. If it is, America will cease to exist.

[DiverDave]

82. We need this discussion ...2 years ago

I drive a truck, diesel prices are more then premium gas prices.

The transportation company's just pass on the increase to all of us.

It's time to nationalize the oil industry...they have stole from us for too long.

The railroads will be the salvation, if they can figure out how to move freight in a more timely manner.
I see a day when there will be very little long distance trucking, just inter-model from the rail hubs.

[elizfeelinggreat]

87. Great idea

I often wonder why the major highways don't ALL have railroads running alongside them to carry freight. Surely it would be safer and what a difference that would make economically, environmentally, etc.

[dysfunctional press]

84. "hauling lumber is no longer making money because of soaring gas prices..."

actually, hauling lumber is no longer making money because the house-building industry has vaporized.

[northzax]

110. ding ding ding!

we have a winner. if the housing boom was still going gangbusters, people would pay the additional costs for lumber to cover transportation, and it would all be days of wine and roses for this guy. the fact is, the people buying the good he carries no longer want them. gas could be $.50/gallon and hauling lumber would still be a shrinking industry.

as long as people actually want the goods being carried, they will pay the premium for delivery. right now SOMEONE is hauling lumber, I was at Home Depot last weekend in DC and there was lumber available, since there are no forests or sawmills in the District, it came from somewhere by truck. Is this poor guy just too inefficient to compete with whoever is getting the business?

[dysfunctional press]

121. and there are a lot of home despot's across the country...

and lowe's and menard's, etc...

although they are probably getting deliveries a lot frequently than in the recent past.

but- somebody is going to at least be buying the lumber for the 3-car garage we're having built this spring. i'm doing my part to keep the economy afloat.

[idovoodoo]

122. home despots

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ain't dat de troof? :D

[dysfunctional press]

147. yep...but at least you usually have a choice- home despot, or blowes.

nt

[idovoodoo]

154. True enuf..........and, how crappy is it that those are our choices?

:eyes: :shrug:

[bean fidhleir]

89. Park the military humvees and similar - give the truckers a price cut (nt)

[LSK]

96. Can someone explain to me how Europeans move goods???

Dont they have twice to three times our fuel prices???

[The Straight Story]

104. Well, they have to drive a lot less distance for one thing

There is a lot of open space in the US that truckers have to go through to get from point A to B, not to mention in some of the larger urban areas traffic congestion eats up a lot of gas.

[northzax]

115. and, as a general rule

everything is more expensive, and people make less money. of course, people also seem happier...

[conscious evolution]

116. They also are strictly regulated

on their driving speeds.
When I lived in Europe I never saw truckers exceeding 50 mph.
The fact that they are paid by the hour instead of by the mile plays a part too.

[CRF450]

125. Some trucking companies here are strictly regulated too.

My brother drives for Eagle delivering fuel to gas stations. Pretty much all the trucks they have has a speed limiter that keeps them from going anymore than 65mph. They also have GPS devices for keeping track of the drivers to make sure none of them is goofing off. They have alot of strict rules.

[idovoodoo]

123. It takes as much gas to go through Chicago as it does to go through Kansas.

There is a lot more congestion in Europe, per square km than there is here...

[A HERETIC I AM]

131. Ummmm...I think your math is a little off, there....

I 70 across Kansas is 424 miles. A car averaging 25 MPG would burn about 17 gallons of fuel driving across. If you can show me any vehicle short of an M1A1 Abrams tank that would burn 17 gallons of fuel - any fuel - to drive from Gary to Lake Forest, ( a route of about 60 miles, commonly driven by trucks headed through Chicago on the way to Milwaukee) I would be very interested.

A fully loaded, 80,000 pound, late model 18 wheeler is still going to average at least 5 MPG, even in rush hour traffic.

[idovoodoo]

135. Argh...okay I wasn't very successful at making a point, apparently.

I knew after I wrote that somebody would chime in with a quantitative analysis of fuel, distance and other minutia to prove I was just being a silly old phart...a charge I'll cop to, BUT take your 80Kip 18-wheeler off the FREEWAYS and drive it from Gary to Lake Forest on 17 gallons - I will kiss your ass at high noon on the steps of the First Baptist Church in any city you name. :evilgrin:

(there aren't interstate highways in Yurp)

[mnhtnbb]

141. They use trains for long distance!

[muriel_volestrangler]

159. No, not really

see the figures in replies #81 and #98 (unless you're talking about Russia when you say 'Europe' - it uses rail a lot, but I suspect much of that is in the Asian part of Russia, ie Siberia).

[mnhtnbb]

140. Truckers still on the road (IS 85) between Charlotte and Chapel Hill

I drove it today and it was as miserable a trip as ever--thanks to the truckers. At one point--a bend in the road--I counted 11 trucks in front of me over a distance that had to be less than 1/4 of a mile.

Hubby and I both remarked how much we wished our railroads were still viable. We remarked about
folks who think the US is so wonderful. Yeah, no health care, no railroads, roads in miserable shape,
bridges in need of repair, schools needing repairs...but plenty of money to blow up other countries.

We talked about how great it would be to be able to get on a train and take a 2 hour ride to Charlotte.
If this were an EU country, it would be a no brainer.

[A HERETIC I AM]

143. "A miserable trip as ever, thanks to the truckers"

Well, speaking for my former co-workers, let me just say, "Glad to do it".

Nice car ya got there. A truck brought it to the dealer, you know. And the gas it's burning didn't just appear at the station by itself.

Nice road you're driving on. Trucks brought that asphalt and/or concrete and all the equipment needed to build the road, too.

That gentle bend in the road? Laid out by an engineer using surveying equipment BROUGHT TO HIM BY A FUCKING TRUCK!

That's what America's truckers live for - to make your everyday drives more miserable, just cause they can.

[Ikonoklast]

146. Here's a little exercise to do, next time you're on a drive

Delete all the items that are making your drive possible, that was once brought by a truck.

That would be everything. Clothes. Food.

Everything.

Even the fillings in your teeth.


If you factor all the things brought by truck out of your drive, you would be walking naked down the side of the road.

Sorry you had such a lousy drive. I bet all those trucks just knew you were in a hurry and got in your way on purpose.

[Tesha]

160. That's pretty funny. Whenever Mr. Tesha's driving us on a long-haul trip...

That's pretty funny. Whenever Mr. Tesha's driving us on a
long-haul trip (say from New Hampshire to Washington to
protest Mr. Bush), he always *PREFERS* to be among the
truckers. His philosophy is that those guys are professionals
who at least know what they're doing out on the roads (as
compared to about half the car drivers we encounter). They
won't stop suddenly, they (usually) won't change lanes sud-
denly, and they can usually even find their turn signals.

I think his favorite section of highway is the truck lanes
from Exit 15 to Exit 8 on the New Jersey Turnpike. ;)
'Course, he grew up around there; me, I get scared
*bleepless* by all those tons of speeding metal caroming
all around us at 75 MPH with many being driven by NJ
drivers just like Mr. Tesha!

Tesha

[liberal4truth]

177. Does he like it when those large trucks tailgate your car, going well over their posted speed limit?

I know I sure dont and it happens all the time these days!

[CRF450]

178. Usually the only time I see a big rig tailgate a car

Is usually because the car just merged in really close in front of the truck. Very rare that I see them tailgating a regular vehicle constantly. 98% of truckers are professional drivers and know exactly what there doing.

Not particularly calling you out, but this is from my observation.

[liberal4truth]

179. You certainly have a right to your observations, but they dont match mine at all.....

...I drive the speed limit on the freeways here, where cars are allowed to travel 65 or 70 MPH
on most freeways and I can't count the number of times a big-rig driver is a car-length behind
me, traveling at 65 MPH in a "55 MPH For Trucks and trailers" zone, and I am not speaking of entering
the on-ramp, but a long steady travel down the highway, with some nit-wit with a big rig on my tail.

If that's what you call "98% safe driving", well you are entitled to your opinions, of course.

[A HERETIC I AM]

180. Let me guess....

You drive the speed limit - in the left hand lane - all the time.

[liberal4truth]

183. Let me guess. You are one of those truckers who love to tailgate every car on the road.

And, no, I stay in the right lane unless I need to pass.

[A HERETIC I AM]

184. Nope. I USED to be a trucker (20 years, 1.5 million miles accident free)

and when I found myself too close to the vehicle in front of me, I backed off.

You notice the truckers that tailgate you. Fair enough. What you don't notice is all the other trucks near you that AREN'T tailgating you or anyone else and all the times a truck is behind you and NOT tailgating.

You indicate you live in a state with a truck/car speed differential on the freeway. The differential you mention (70/55 - 15 MPH) is the case in only 1 state - California. 5 other states have 10 MPH differentials and 3 others have a 5 MPH differential. Alabama has a 15 MPH differential that applies only to trucks carrying hazardous materials. Speed differentials are a hazard in and of themselves and should be scrapped in favor of a uniform speed for all vehicles.

If the majority of the traffic around you is traveling at 70 and you are traveling at ANY other speed, YOU are the one creating the hazard. The 75th percentile rule applies. The safest speed in which to travel on a given roadway, regardless of the posted speed is that speed at which 75% of the vehicles are traveling at. Also, it is my experience, and I have plenty, that when there is a space between a truck and the car in front of him, the trucker PUT IT THERE and more often than not, a car will move into that space and fill it, forcing the driver to either slow down or pass.

The overwhelming majority of truck drivers in this country are paid by the mile. That's "piece" work. If you find it difficult to understand why a driver might want to go a couple miles an hour faster than you are traveling, remember that fact. A trucker forced to drive slower than is reasonable is being forced to take a pay cut.

[liberal4truth]

185. None of your assertions give Truckers the right to speed or tailgate, if you wont obey the laws....

.. then you need to be cited or jailed, just like a drunk or drugged driver would be.

Those monster vehicles you drive don't stop on a dime, that much I know, so when you
add speeding to tailgating you are setting up the conditions for someone to get injured
or killed.

In my book that is a case reckless driving, and bordering on manslaughter
under the right conditions, if someone gets run over and killed by a trucker.

Tell me: is the loss of freedom and/or a life's work really worth the risks that
these truck drivers are taking with ours lives out on the road, just for a few more
dollars?

[cornermouse]

188. Always drive with the speed of the traffic unless you as a driver

feel or are unsafe at that speed. And when behind a trucker, take advantage of his draft and save your own gas.

[CRF450]

189. So true, its safer to go the same speed as everyone else...

Wheather they'r going 15mph over the limit or not. I mean come on, who does the speed limit on a freeway anyways?? Nobody! You should here all the complaints my brother has about the drivers in Hamton Roads VA. My brother has to deal with people who cut him off, stop suddenly, stay in his blind spots. And then his favorite, the ones that pass him, merge into his lane and slow to a lower speed. He had a little incident where some lady parked her car in front of the truck, in his blind spot which is the right side corner of the truck. Because of his small stature he cant see good in that area at all. He knew about the car being their and after some time he though she had left by then, so when he started pulling forward ended up bumping into the car. It caused quite a big of damage to the car but not the truck. He was given 3 days of unpaid vacation, and told that if he ever gets into another accidend, they will fire him.

He's not exactly paid by the mile, but by the job. But in a way the pay is determined by how far he has to drive. He cant really go all that fast in the truck anyways cause the company has them outfitted with speed governers that limit it to 65mph or less. They also have GPS devices to let the people in charge know what the driver has been doing. The company he works for BTW is Eagle, delevering fuel to gas stations. The company pays for the gas used in the trucks, not the driver.

[liberal4truth]

193. If the prevailing traffic is going faster then the speed limit the cops can "cherry pick" your car..

..out for a speeding ticket.

In fact I have seen a cop pull over two cars at one time, quite often.

It sounds great, but in practice its a risky way to get a citation.

[cornermouse]

195. I've been doing it for at least 30 years

without being ticketed for that. As long as you know that your driving ability and reaction time allows you to drive at that speed you should be all right. You should keep in mind that if you are going slower than traffic you are potentially putting yourself and others around you at risk by becoming a barrier. As they switch lanes in your vicinity, the risk to yourself and anyone near you increases.

My dad, a truck driver, taught me to watch the other cars and always drive defensively.

[A HERETIC I AM]

191. Does every single truck you have ever been near tailgate you?

Because that is exactly how you are making it seem. It isn't the case and you know it. The fact that you get occasionally tailgated by a tractor trailer does not mean every driver is guilty of reckless driving.

This is a perfect example of the hysterical nonsense spouted by someone who sees trucks and truckers as somehow an inherently dangerous vehicle class;

Those monster vehicles you drive don't stop on a dime, that much I know, so when you add speeding to tailgating you are setting up the conditions for someone to get injured or killed.

In my book that is a case reckless driving, and bordering on manslaughter under the right conditions, if someone gets run over and killed by a trucker.

Tell me: is the loss of freedom and/or a life's work really worth the risks that
these truck drivers are taking with ours lives out on the road, just for a few more
dollars?

"Monster vehicles"? "These truck drivers"? If you are so intimidated and terrified by tractor trailers to the point that they are monsters to you, I suggest you take a remedial driving course and learn how to deal with your fears as well as properly operate and manage the driving task in freeway situations.

Like I said earlier, I USED to drive trucks, so your sentence should have read "you drove". However, NONE of my former co-workers are out to kill you or hurt you. They all have families too. You seem to be under the impression that all truckers have a cavalier attitude about safety and are out there not to do a job, but to intimidate and scare the shit out of YOU. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I never said truckers have the right to speed. But again, you seem to think all truckers act in a particular fashion because you have the infrequent tailgating experiences you do. If you are always being tailgated by trucks, if it is your experience each time you get behind the wheel, then I would submit it is you who are doing something wrong.

I've got an idea - for the next 30 days, count the number of automobiles that tailgate you and count the number of big trucks that tailgate you. Next, count the number of trucks you see every day that AREN'T TAILGATING ANYONE. The results won't be nearly as skewed as you think.

[Tesha]

182. It also happens when thecar is poking along in the middle lane...

... and there's a left lane restriction that prohibits the
trucker from passing in the laft lane. This is certainly
the case on the NJ Turnpike.

And in Massachusetts, it's practically required that there
be a slow-moving car in the middle lane causing huge amounts
of congestion as they get passed by cars on the left and
trucks on the right.

Tesha

[Tesha]

181. It doesn't happen to him but he travels at the prevailing speed of the traffic. (Hint, hint).

[B Calm]

142. The OP should have read the price of DIESEL FUEL, not gas...

[idovoodoo]

153. Diesel is more expensive than gasoline. There is a reason for that, and it's not

what most people think.

[lonestarnot]

164. you tell us, you know alllllllllllllll about that oil.

[liberal4truth]

194. What IS the reason?

[happydreams]

169. How the fuck does somebody learn to be this inarticulate??????

Maybe this shithead should go finish grade school and apologize for supporting Bush.

[lonestarnot]

170. Oh what, you never make mistakes I guess. Purrrrrrrrrrfect.

[happydreams]

172. The fuckheads whole life is a mistake. This society deserves what is coming

I just regret wasting my time trying to do something about it.

[morgan2]

173. retarded

If they can't find a company to pay them, then they aren't needed in trucking. People are obviously making a living driving trucks, they're everywhere. Just because certain industries are trying to low ball people or can't afford to ship their products, is meaningless.

[sarcasmo]

175. The Owner Operator is History a sad kick and Nom.

[Imagevision]

196. If your milk,butter and bread (Walmarts?) stopped getting their goodies to sell

perhaps someone would more clearly understand the weight of the Bushco problems.

[lonestarnot]

198. And if they had trouble getting to the Walmart because a rig had been abandoned in the middle of the

FW, maybe they would ask about why it was blocking the damn freeway. But if there were 10 of them, they might really fucking wonder what the hell was going on... 100? OMG

[kentuck]

197. The recipe for a Recession..

and an economic disaster.

[Imagevision]

199. How much worse can a recession be...? ok. $4-$5.00 gas