Following Orders

[Echo In Light]

Following Orders
By Mark A. Goldman

12/02/08 - If I have my facts straight, Hitler killed only one person in his lifetime: himself. All the other atrocities that are attributed to him were carried out by people who were only following orders.

If it is true that the war in Iraq is illegal, as I and others believe it is — including the Secretary General of the United Nations — then all the deaths and atrocities that have occurred to date, inflicted by our coalition forces, are the acts of individuals who, knowingly or unknowingly, with good intentions or not, have been willing to break the law in order to follow the orders of superiors.

Each member of the US military took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Each also took a pledge to follow the legal orders of the Commander in Chief. Under the Constitution, no soldier is required to follow an illegal order. But that's what many Americans have been doing now for quite some time. And this is not confined to our military personnel, but also to members of the FBI, the CIA, the NSA (the folks who have been carrying out those illegal wire taps), outsourced contractors, the media, and perhaps most egregious of all— elected members of Congress, who for all intents and purposes, put their conscience and oversight responsibilities on hold as they get their marching orders from the Oval Office or from party leaders.

I believe the reason that many of those who do follow illegal orders, or otherwise fall into line under pressure, is that if they refused, they would be subject to severe ridicule and/or punishment. They know that if they subjected themselves to this ridicule or punishment, that we would not do anything to protect them from that injustice.

And so, in pursuit of this war, we have suspended the Constitution. Many members of Congress have supported the administration in carrying out illegal acts, rationalizing that such behavior is in the name of national security. That was Hitler's rationale too. Innocent people have been killed, wounded, tortured, rendered, humiliated, had their privacy invaded, and their lives dismantled all in the name of national security. Anyone who objects can now be put under suspicion and may be targeted for future intimidation or worse. According to members of Congress, nothing this administration does is egregious enough to qualify them for impeachment.

The stories of individuals who have been damaged by the illegal acts of our government and their agents are beginning to filter through. But the damage that's been done is far greater than the stories yet told. Damage done to our Constitution and to our self respect will likely take a heavy toll for generations to come.

And yet for most Americans their sensibilities are not disturbed by what's been happening… many do not want to hear about it. Those who do hear about it, make up their own rationalization of why it's ok. Many simply don't know what to think or do.

More:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19336.htm

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Something happened after 9/11

Something that unleashed insanity in our nation, or perhaps simply made it ok to be insane, be a prejudiced person, let all the meanness and darkness in our souls out. And the MSM was complicit in this in that no voice of alarm, no warning cries, awoke us from our mental illness. Instead, fear was allowed to run unchecked, egged on by those in power who hoped to demonize all who opposed them. Are we finally awakening from this nightmare? I hope so.

[Echo In Light]

2. Hunter Thompson declared 9/11 as our "national nervous breakdown."

[Smith_3]

5. I think our society was already fucked up before 9/11.

After 9/11 it just became more obvious.

[Afje]

9. What happened was that we

got our ass bombed for a change.

[AlertLurker]

19. USA was insane far before 9-11.

[KharmaTrain]

3. Your Oath Vs. Your Conscience

First of all...how does a soldier know what an illegal order is or not...until its too late. When you enter the service or take a job in the public sector, you swear an oath, but who do you swear to and how binding is it? Many who go in the military don't question the authority...it's a culture where insubordination or even questioning is considered subversive...and in some ways, you need that to maintain discipline. For example, whatif we actually had a legitimate attack on this country...the military can't afford to soul search.

It's not that people don't want to hear about it...they hear too much about it...and with few, if any answers. Many still believe that we're "at war" or "under threat of attack" and this includes some Democrats as well. It's this trump card this regime continues to use to destroy civil liberties and commit criminal acts...and anyone questioning it...especially in the military is in for living hell.

Remember, there are innocent people in the military as well...those who volunteered and got dragged into this mess...not just once but several times. Speaking out against the war and the military is asking for a one-way ticket to oblivion...look at what happened to the military bloggers...and not following an order is a sure ticket to a court martial or dishonorable discharge. I've met Iraqi war vets in recent years and there are few who favor this war, but they were stuck in it...afraid to speak out or they'd lose benefits or worse. In the beginning, they get indoctrinated with how a noble cause this war is...saving the country...then they get into "the shit" and their opinion changes...but its too late by then...sadly.

This country is incapable of dealing with the crimes and attrocities that have happened in Iraq. This will be up to the International community to deal with in the World Court. Rummy's already a wanted man and others in this regime will be added to that list.

[Echo In Light]

7. Although I disagree with much of that, there are those who REFUSE to go/go back

http://www.iacenter.org/folder06/snafu-page.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/apr/13/military.iraq

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=9187

http://www.globalwomenstrike.net/English2006/JournalRTK.htm

http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/

[KharmaTrain]

8. I Strongly Support Those Who Are CEs...

I'm not justifying...just trying to rationalize (my bad character trait). I grew up during the Vietnam era and was faced with the possibility of being drafted and how I would deal with it. I knew several who had fled to Canada and have vivid memories of walking around Quebec City in August '68 seeing the street crowded with American ex-pats. But they knew what was coming and were able to get away before they were dragged in.

Recently there was a local soldier who had gone on two tours and was being called back for a third...he vanished and supposedly is in hiding somewhere in Europe. His parents have been bombarded with harassing phone calls and media creatures all wondering "what went wrong".

I think we need to carefully separate those who serve vs. those who order. We're going to have to help thousands of vets who have scars from this invasion that will pervade the rest of their lifetimes...and anything that can be done to help these people should be a priority.

[Afje]

12. I think those conscious draft dodgers during

Vietnam is the reason we got an all volunteer army now.

[Echo In Light]

13. That and the military would rather have those who WANT to join, instead of...

Attempting to take the average person who isn't prone to violence, and turn them into "killing machines." Doesn't work so well.

[KharmaTrain]

17. The Protest Were

Listen to how the wingnuts easily dismiss those killed in this atrocity by saying how they "volunteered"...like they were asking to be killed in a worthless, insane war for profit.

It was the thought of hundreds of thousands of protestors on the DC mall and riots at ROTC offices on college campuses that did more to end the draft.

The most interesting CE of Vietnam, of course, was Muhammed Ali. Imagine the shit he would have endured today...

[Echo In Light]

14. Agreed. The three Vietnam vets I've known have serious mental health issues

[Afje]

11. "a culture where insubordination or even questioning is

considered subversive..." - exactly, and that's the very reason everything military is glorified in this focking shithole of ours.

[KharmaTrain]

18. The Great Divide...

The real tragedy of Iraq is how many were snookered into some "noble" ideal...the chickenshithawks who were scared that A-rabs were gonna kill us and that somehow we could swoop in with bombs and make it all better. We'd be "greeted as liberators" and democracy would flourish...it'd be a "cakewalk"...30 or 60 days and we're done.

But then there were those who saw the $$$ in this "noble" ideal...defense contractors with bulging inventories of toys and in need of more government juice to keep the industry going. The end of the cold war and trying to adjust to a peacetime world just wasn't going well for General Dynamics. Then there were the "contractors"...the "Princes" of this war that see greater profits the longer the occupation and the misery goes on.

The chickenshithawks believed booooshie...but it was cheney who had this thing planned all along...he started the outsourcing in the DOD under Daddy booosh and it didn't take long for him to pick up where he'd left off...meanwhile his stock portoflio has never looked better.

Cheers...

[Afje]

21. I don't think a whole lot of snookering is needed to convince the

great American sheep of the nobility of war. With some 80 plus percent of the population calling themselves Christians, an epic battle between good and evil is music to their ears.

[Thothmes]

4. Which article of the Constitution

speaks to not following illegal orders?

[Vickers]

10. The Uniform Code of Military Justice covers this.

:thumbsup:

[Thothmes]

15. The UCMJ is a statute enacted by Congress

and signed by the President. It is not a part of the United States Constitution.

[Vickers]

16. Sorry, I was simply trying to answer your question.

As a veteran, I can tell you that the UCMJ is much more important (on a day-to-day basis) to a servicemember than that silly old Constitution.

:P

[Thothmes]

20. Well aware of that fact

after 24 years in our Navy.

[Smith_3]

6. Actually, Hitler was an infantrist in WW one. He might have shot a few people there.

On a side note: He probably took some nerve damage from that gas attack that hit his unit (they were hit by mustard gas). By todays standards, he probably would have required mental treatment.

[VP505]

22. K&R

Well said!