*** Official Senate Judiciary DOJ Hearing- #3 ***

[annabanana]

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs_cspan_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

1) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2790819&mesg_id=2790819

2) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2791095&mesg_id=2791095

[annabanana]

1. Brownback up now . .about military bases..and moving detainees

[annabanana]

2. Muk says no one has said they WANT the detainees. . and there are legal barriers

[bdamomma]

so what does that mean just hold them illegally forever.

or torture them until they die.

[jtrockville]

I don't think any states want Blackwater either... but still they have their compounds.

[annabanana]

3. Brown says he'd check out any possible alternative facility

[annabanana]

4. Knox vs the PLO? what is this?

[Solly Mack]

5. I'm so ashamed of my country

[bdamomma]

16. it's really sad huh?

we have hit the lowest of lows.

[annabanana]

6. reauthorization of "human trafficking legislation"

[annabanana]

7. Enforcemnt of federal firearm statutes...-

[annabanana]

9. re FISA. . about telecom immunity... Substituting the gov for the companies..

[Justpat]

46. yeah, that makes it all ok.

So I think the gist of it is bush was led to believe that no one would be
held accountable for this illegal action if it was tied to him because no
one would dare hold him accountable.

we function like a third world government now.

[bdamomma]

8. thanks anna for the threads.

oh, Mukasey is a jerk too.

[Solly Mack]

10. Brownback is scum

[MiniMe]

18. well, he is a repuke. Living up to expectations.

[annabanana]

11. Muk on "substitution" - "they can't cooperate without a court order

[annabanana]

13. (and that would be BAD)

[Justpat]

12. Brownback gives him a pat on the back.

Hey, Muck, thanks for facing up to some real questions about all the
topics you are avoiding.

Yikes.

[bdamomma]

14. oh Brownback just bite it huh?

what total BS these guys spew.

[annabanana]

15. DiFi up now

[bdamomma]

22. that's her candidate.

I'm not authorized, just another way of saying I will not tell you anything.

[annabanana]

17. "defined process" by which any "new method" would be proposed..

[annabanana]

19. was this always the case?

[annabanana]

20. Did the Pres approve the cases when it HAS happened?

[MiniMe]

21. Did the President approve waterboarding?

Muk won't answer.

[Solly Mack]

23. and speaking of scum....

[Justpat]

24. Feinstein wants to know if Pres approved waterboarding.

The attorney general of the United States can't answer that question.

[annabanana]

25. Put the whole Gov't under the Army Field Manual... If the Pres would sign that

[annabanana]

26. then it would clearly be illegal for anyone...

[Justpat]

27. So if the CIA does it, it is OK?

Is that basically what Gonzo had encouraged Bush to believe?
That he could do anything he wanted as long as some other
agency pulled it off?

[annabanana]

29. yup

[annabanana]

28. So.. How would it work "legally"?. . good question..

[annabanana]

30. "How would it be done?"

[annabanana]

31. ummm the Director would "become aware".. however it was done..

[annabanana]

32. "it would have to go to the President"

[buzzard]

36. Sleazy POS as usual no answers of any substance.n/t

[L. Coyote]

33. Mukasey just said re waterboarding "I can't discuss it because I'm not authorized to discuss it."

I may have paraphrased some there, but that was the statement. I want to see this transcript too.

[Justpat]

34. HaHa.

Muck can't answer her question. really grasping for one of those stock, smooth,
non answers regarding how exactly would you make an illegal action appear legal.

[annabanana]

35. Is it legal to be carried out by a non-governmental employee? (i,e,blackwater)

[annabanana]

37. "I don't know"

[Justpat]

39. UH oh

Biiiiig silence. and stumbling answer.

Uh, I don't know. In response to her question can contractors do torture??

[annabanana]

38. get back to me on that , would you?

[annabanana]

40. Scott Bloch's investigation is being impeded by Justice...

[annabanana]

42. difi: Why?

[MiniMe]

41. I think we should just call him Mucky

short for horse muck

[L. Coyote]

49. Sticky like mucous or murky like dirty water?

Wouldn't that be Pucky, like in horse dung? It sure isn't muckraker!

[annabanana]

51. dirty mucousy water

[Solly Mack]

43. is such enabling bullshit....for anyone... and I mean ANYONE...to pretend

that torture being illegal is debatable or pretend that water-boarding isn't torture or that it's debatable.... or to pretend like this hasn't been clear cut and the LAW for years and years and years

[annabanana]

44. "A response is in the works, but it hasn't gone out yet".

[annabanana]

45. Bloch's office isn't in the same building... so it's slow.. (4 MONTHS SLOW?)

[annabanana]

47. short break . Kyle up after...

[Xipe Totec]

50. Oh, good. I don't think I can stand much more of Mukasey

I feel like my head is about to explode.

[Justpat]

48. Break time.

I need a break from this too.


Kyle up after break. I might sit that one out.

[annabanana]

52. Mini-me.. I have to go out.. will you "thread-tend" in case I get back too late?

[Solly Mack]

53. "demonstrates good faith"?????? What garbage

[Justpat]

54. Kyle - these issues are complicated.

Well, no #$*%!

What are vacant slots we need to act on?
If there is a God, hopefully the presidential one asap.

[Justpat]

55. So does giving a gov project a fancy name

like Operation Streamline cause the cost to go up?

It seems that the more dramatic the name - the bigger the cost.
just an observation.

I'll go back to listening now..

[Solly Mack]

56. Good thing Mukasey brought integrity back to the DOJ isn't it?

On days like this, I am almost gleeful that chickens come home to roost

[L. Coyote]

57. VIDEO: Mukasey: "I Would Feel" That Waterboarding is Torture if Done to Me

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005176.php

ALSO ----- I have a thread started for VIDEOS of this hearing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2791520

[Solly Mack]

58. Feingold up

[Solly Mack]

59. Mukasey "I don't see the inconsistencies"

LMAO

Oh, I'm sure you don't you piece of shit

[Solly Mack]

67. this hearing such a mockery...just going through the motions

Mukasey is just as corrupt and just as criminal as Bush and none of them will be held accountable

Yes, a few people made excellent points...but so? Yes, a few good people further exposed Mukasey for the piece of shit he is...but so?

They still won't be held accountable

[Justpat]

60. Feingold up.

Complimenting him on his backing GLB protection.

Now, what about torture?

Are you willing to prosecute crimes of torture?

Muck: Um, um, the, um, basically CIA can't be held legally accountable
for acting in accord with what the administration wants.
I am so confused listening to this guy.

He is trying to spin the answer into a giant ball of legal and verbal twine
that can't be undone.

[Justpat]

61. Mr. Muck is really, really a piece of legal #$*#

He uses his intellect and legal skills to hide the truth.

[annabanana]

62. You said retro-active immunity was necessary. but we dont' want them to break the law

[annabanana]

63. We don't want them to help a policeman rob a bank

[buzzard]

64. I don't know why but that cracked me up.n/t

[annabanana]

65. Feingold is fantastic... I hope this is you tube'd

[Justpat]

66. We don't want to encourage lawbreaking, says Mr. Muck.

FISA says companies can't cooperate with gov. without a court order.

So, the telecoms broke the law and the adminsitration is trying to say
the King Bush has the right to do what he wants. That we are no longer
a law abiding nation. And the function of the AG is to support the
Boy King in all his actions.

:cry:

[annabanana]

68. Hatch: This is all to complicated for us here... we shouldn't even be talking about it. . HA

[annabanana]

69. FISA reform tops the list Protect America Act needs to be passed blah blah

[annabanana]

70. Hatch & Muk want no "sunset" on new FISA law

[Justpat]

71. Hatch says we need to forget adherence to law to fight terrorism. n/t

[annabanana]

72. Hatch is listing some of the stuff they've gotten..."Some say the act

does not protect American's overseas"

[annabanana]

74. He does NOT claim that they couldn't have gotten this under the NEW FISA bill

[Solly Mack]

73. America: where criminals can hold office and the government is described as

being for/of/by the people...

Find your liberty in corrupt government officials!!!

[annabanana]

75. He says "warrant" like it's a ridiculous thing...

[Justpat]

76. The argument goes that terrorists will have access to

our information regarding their terrorists activity. And we can't do that so we have to
realize that having the president and telecom industries held to the law will do us in.

These people believe that democracy cannont function in times of crisis.
Terrorism is the perfect vehicle for their dreams of uncontrolled power.

[annabanana]

77. Now tell us how important blind obedience of the telecoms is to us..

[annabanana]

78. Muk says "this is a war unlike any other" (i.e. all the old laws are moot)

[Justpat]

79. Holding them accountable will ruin their stock.

Hatch is making me physically ill.

[annabanana]

80. The "Hatch & Muk Show" was all completely rehearsed!

[annabanana]

81. Durbin bringing up the Orwell pic hanging in Muk's office. .

[annabanana]

82. still troubled re waterboarding... "reasonable people can disagree"

[annabanana]

83. He says "like who?"

[annabanana]

84. If waterboarding would be ok under certain circumstance... why has it been stopped?

[L. Coyote]

85. Hatch is an enabler of Bush juntaism. Perfect dude for an Orwell movie.

[Solly Mack]

86. No such "reasonable" people exist. Reasonable people DON'T support torture

[Solly Mack]

91. torture has NEVER saved a life and it NEVER will

Torture destroys us all as people

[Solly Mack]

96. torture is illegal. water-boarding is torture. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN CRYSTAL CLEAR

and I'm sure the rapist would disagree with being charged with rape...but rape is still a crime

[annabanana]

87. Again brings up the danger to American's if our stance on waterboarding is "iffy"

[annabanana]

88. "reasonable people" like "in this chamber" (i.e. no names)

[annabanana]

89. the Senate "in THIS chamnber" has said NO NO NO to waterboarding

[annabanana]

90. but then the law that would outlaw it was voted down.. in this chamber..

THANKS HARRY

[annabanana]

92. THANKS to old 60/40 Harry

[annabanana]

93. Durbin "where is the lack of clarity?. he can't answer

[Justpat]

94. There is no way to hide the main issue here.

The administration hired this Schmuck to do the administraions bidding and do it better
than Gonzo.

Gonzo was not smart enough to tie people up in legal knots. What he lacked in smarts
he made up for in blind loyalty.

Now they have their man who has the loyalty, the smarts and the legal skill to obstruct
and evade with confidence.

He cannot and will not give an answer on torture. Bush really got him man.

[annabanana]

95. Muk "It can be read two ways". Durbin says "No it can't It's a WAR CRIME"

[annabanana]

97. Muk re second question .. um um um um . .

[annabanana]

98. You were arguing that using it to discover i.e. nuclear threat is NOT "shocking"

to the conscious...

[annabanana]

99. The Military says No it Can't be used under ANY circumstance...

[Fredda Weinberg]

100. RECESS!!!

[Justpat]

101. Yikes,

I'd have to read the transcrip of this go get a good
idea of exactly what the hell he is saying.

He never answers a question.

But he is getting tired and not as fast on the verbal draw as before
in the session.

[annabanana]

102. RECESS UNTIL 2 PM***** I'll have a new thread up for 2pm

[Solly Mack]

103. it is NOT unresolved! I am sick of this!!! STOP pretending. America IS A WAR CRIME NATION

[L. Coyote]

104. VIDEOS of the Mukasey Hearing THREAD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2791520

TPM is keeping up like champs, with four video highlights to discuss already.

[annabanana]

105. NUMBER 4 IS HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2792086&mesg_id=2792086