The Defeat of HD-DVD: HD vs Blu-Ray

[Popol Vuh]

Pwned!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywWfmRdOmJ0

[arendt]

1. Funny. Goes on too long, but it is funny. Great look-alike. Is it a German production? n/t

[Touchdown]

2. The YouTube comments say it's "The Downfall"

A german film. It is funny.

I'm glad I stayed out of buying a new disc format until this was over with. Still, I'll probably wait until next Fall anyway.

[NutmegYankee]

6. I had watched "Downfall" before. Recommended as a movie.

It has subtitles in English and is available at Blockbuster and Hollywood Video. It's a good movie.


Also Watch "Sophie Scholl - The last days" Another outstanding German movie and with a character who died challenging the Nazis.

[MadHound]

3. And we are the real losers in this

Once again, and with ever increasing frequency, corporate America is changing media formats, changes that are for the most part relatively miniscule. While the numbers of the Blu-ray format look impressive, they are much like the numbers on high end audio equipment, impressive in paper, but not really making much of a difference to the human senses. As an aside, one of the great ironies is that audiophiles are now coming to the conclusion, twenty five years later, that vinyl is a much better format for listening to music than the CD, due to the choppiness of the digital format as opposed to the natural flow of analog formats. Furthermore, high end audiophile equipment is now becoming hybrid for the same reason, becoming a mixture of solid state and vacumn tube technology.

But these changes force Americans to go out and spend more, more, more. A new machine to play the new format, followed by replacing one's entire library over time. This simply means more money spent, for marginal return. But Americans are apparently suckers for such things, looking at the numbers on paper rather than believing what their eyes or ears tell them. And my how the money flows.

But hey, since this is indeed now a consumer based economy, I suppose that we have to keep cranking out more and more hyped up crap to keep the money flowing. My question is how much of this will we continue to tolerate. Judging by the latest hoopla, sadly I think quite a bit. Madison Avenue does a great job of selling the American public crap that we really don't need.

[NashVegas]

4. I Saw a PSA On CNN Today That Shocked Me

Sponsored by the Ad Council, of all things.

In it a guy about to buy a 50-inch-screen HDTV is talked out of it by a pig-faced man.

http://feedthepig.org/

[Marie26]

31. That's great!

I might just have to donate - it's about time we had some ads encouraging saving to contradict all the ads that tell consumers to buy, buy, buy.

[CRF450]

7. Are you kidding?

Picture quality in HD looks WAY WAY better than regular DVD resolution. I spent $2300 on a Samsung 50" DLP tv and $400 on a blue-ray player (think I should have gotten the PS3 instead) and I couldn't have been happier with my purchace!

[MadHound]

8. No, I'm not kidding

But congratulations on being a good little consumer.

Having been in radio and other such areas where high end audio and video equipment is used, I know that there is this dirty little secret, that manufacturers are putting out machines, both audio and video, whose numbers for clarity and such are frankly beyond the range of the human senses. However they keep putting out this crap because they know that people will see the numbers, read the rave reviews about the numbers, and in an interesting twist on the placebo effect, actually believe the numbers, when the reality is that to the human senses there is no real difference. There have been some studies done, especially in Europe, where they had people do "blind" comparisons between high end audio and video equipment and lower end stuff, and funny, in these tests, no differences were found.

You've read the numbers, you've paid your bucks, congratulations, you got suckered.

[CRF450]

12. I'll agree in that part

Its like in home audio or car audio, the human ear cant hear frequencies more than 18khz, yet recievers and amps are capable of producing up to 22khz. And most regular off the shelf hometheater surround sound systems have way over rated power ratings, so I built my own from using seperate speakers, reciever/amp, and a powered subwoofer. The manufacturers who made them are honest about their power ratings and other features.

The fact remains though, the picture quality in 1080p HD is far superior to regular DVD quality as far as I can tell, not to mention I needed a new tv anyways cause the old 27" CRT took a dump.

[gatorboy]

19. You must be Mr. Magoo.

Anyone that can't see a difference in HD video compared to standard needs extensive cateract surgery.

[NutmegYankee]

21. You need the TV for it.

Thats the thing, You need to buy this expensive TV to really see the difference, but why bother if your happy with your current TV? Save the money and sit back and laugh.

[gatorboy]

23. Hey, if you're happy with your current TV, there's nothing wrong with that.

But since we're discussing HD players, I assume anyone who has one has already acquired an HD set. Actually, it was my wife that would stare at the HD section like a deer in headlights until we finally bought an LCD model. And I'm a big film buff, so who am I to argue? HDmovies channel played "O' Brother Where Art Thou" a month back and it was gorgeous. I haven't had the heart to delete off my DVR yet.

[NutmegYankee]

28. I understand your point.

I'm just happier not spending big bucks on a TV that most of the time, won't be showing HD. I have seen the effect at my Sister's house, with Brother-in-Law and I watching the blood fly in High Definition while watching 300. Even though I have to admit that was a sweet set-up, I'm still staying out. As with all formats and devices, prices will go down in the future. Until then, I can save up for the other parts of the American Dream.

[MadHound]

22. No, I'm not blind

But I learned long ago to trust my senses rather than what the numbers, hype and price tags are saying. But hey, if you want to spend your hard earned money for miniscule real world improvement, far be it from me to stop you. God knows this country's economy needs all the good little consumers it can get:eyes:

[gatorboy]

24. Well, I'll admit I probably can't afford to help you fix that eye problem.

But you enjoy yourself nonetheless. :)

[CRF450]

32. I dont get how people cant see much difference...

between a regular DVD movie and a HD movie. I'm sitting here thinking "I see a huge difference, and you dont? Man, your eyes need to be checked".

[NutmegYankee]

33. But you have to have an HD TV! Otherwise, there isn't a difference. nt

[CRF450]

35. I have one, so its all good.

[water]

26. If they derive enjoyment from those purchases, why do you care whether they can actually hear it?

They have access to information about human hearing, too.

[Tesha]

10. Important hint: *NEVER* try to argue with someone who thinks "tubes sound better".

You'll just be wasting your time.

Tesha

[MadHound]

13. There is a large body of evidence that the analog sound of tubes is indeed better than digital

Odds are that you probably regularly listen to music that is, in part, produced using tubes.<http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/archive/1640>

Tubes, much like vinyl, have a smooth progression over various frequencies, whereas digital progression goes in a stairstep form, thus needing the application of white noise to fill in the gaps. And unlike the digitally driven "numbers improvement" that I've spoken of elsewhere, you can actually hear the difference between tubes and solid state.

But hey, if you want to keep believing the myth that all new tech is better than old tech, go for it. Far be it from me to keep you from being a good little consumer.

[Tesha]

14. As I advised the other person, I don't argue with people such as you. (NT)

[MadHound]

16. Sure, ignore people who've been in the field and know what they're talking about

All because of your own limited experience. Yeah, what politician does that remind me of:eyes:

What, don't believe my link? Want another?<http://www.pentalaboratories.com/tech_no21.html> Now what do you have to back your ass up with besides your own personal biases?

But continued to be seduced by the mass marketing giants, be a pawn of Madison Avenue. It's no skin off my nose, and it's always enjoyable to watch people making fools of themselves out of sheer ignorance.

[NutmegYankee]

18. Some people...

are just going to plug their ears and chant "nah nah nah I can't hear you" not matter what. Just move on to someone that wants to listen to good music.

[wuushew]

17. There were/are alternatives to vinyl you know

I believe laserdisc stored audio information in analogue.

Physical storage media always destroys itself through mechanical action. Light is essentially benign and I am quite glad that we have overcome the cost and technical barriers producing blue lasers.

[NutmegYankee]

15. You make it sound all "Moon batty".

It's just a personal preference. I'm sure you like certain foods over others, certain colors over others, right? Many people find the slight distorted amplification of tubes to be more "normal" and pleasing to the ear.

[Elidor]

27. But tubes really do sound better!

:) I use a solid-state amp for my guitar for the sake of convenience, but if I had the money and the inclination to fool around with them, yes, tubes sound wonderful. They're alive! Alive!!!

[Roland99]

38. I'm champing at the bit to finally go 1080p. 1080i over 480p (DVD) was amazing

Can't wait for 1080p!!

[Captain Angry]

34. You left out a key part of the process.

As each generation of new media formats are released, the buyer has less right to the product than the version before.

Digital Rights Management decides how long you'll own the stuff you bought, who you can give it to when you're done, etc.

I bought a record in 1983. That record has a song on it that I really like. As the record fails due to age, I find that I didn't buy the song, but the transport method. So I buy a new transport method, the CD. That CD becomes scratched, and I have to buy another one.

Enter digital songs. Now I can save it on my HDD forever! Until the drive dies. Oh, you put it on CD, you can put it on your new computer. But the song was encoded to only let you put it on one computer. So you go to the rights owner and ask for the old license to be removed since you don't own the old computer, and you want to put it on the new computer...

It's a mess.

[CRF450]

36. They have the right to do that.

How do you think that people get free downloads from Limewire or some other file sharing program? Because the ones that make it available are the ones who'v copied it off the album disk on to their computer, that file gets moved to the folders of said program and then it available to whoever is looking for that song.

Their are probucts out their that can take care of scratched up CD's BTW.

[Captain Angry]

37. You missed my point.

I was only talking about the legal process that has attached itself as each new media format is released.

Some people will always find a way to pirate stuff. Therefore companies will always make it harder and harder. The only people who suffer are the honest people.

I buy a DVD and can watch it on my DVD player. But if I want to put that movie onto an iPod, I have to buy it in a digital format or pirate it.

The consumer is not getting the choices. It used to be that the customer was king. They decided what they bought, and how it was used. Now, we don't get to decide how we use our own stuff.

(And yes, I know you can repair CDs. Change my statement to if my CD shatters or is stolen and the point remains.

[NutmegYankee]

5. I just stay away from this crap.

If I wanted to see your make-up in high def, I'd attend your show.

But hey, don't let me discourage people from CONSUMING.

[TheUniverse]

9. Too bad standard DVD format is "pwning" them both.

[leeroysphitz]

11. Right. People aren't waiting for the "format wars" to end before investing in a new format.

They just don't NEED or even WANT a new format.

[gatorboy]

20. Bah! I'll stick with my HD-DVD...For now.

Children of Men and Brokeback Mountain look gorgeous on it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

25. I don't have either yet

Personally, I'm happy with regular DVD right now and waiting for the format "war" to end definitively before moving on. What are the main differences between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in terms of how the machines operate, picture quality, and sound? I have a non-HD widescreen TV and a nice Yamaha Dolby 5.1 sound system. Would I notice ANY substantial differences with either of these formats without upgrading my TV and/or stereo unit?

[Tesha]

29. Without upgrading to an HD TV, you won't notice any difference.

A DVD contains all the picture resolution that can be
displayed by an ordinary TV.

Of course, if you were to buy an HD player (HD-DVD or
Blu-Ray) today, the discs you bought now would look
better someday when you buy an HDTV whereas DVDs will
always look like DVDs.

Tesha

[CRF450]

30. Nah, you wouldn't notice much at all

Though sound quality does seem a little better in Blu-Ray. Unless you get an HD tv you wouldn't notice any difference I imagine.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

39. So would it be worth it to wait a while longer to get either?