Con-servative thinking at work: US-born child of immigrants dies

[kevinbgoode]

Well, this just takes the cake for me. I understand the concern over illegal immigration, but when a child born in this country isn't treated for a casual illness because the parents are in fear of deportation, it is just outrageous. I do not understand. . .on any level. . .how and why people become human sacrifices for policy issues which are treated so flippantly by public officials in this country - particularly those con-artist con-servatives who continue to believe that every other human being on this planet is required to be fodder for their paranoid, fearmongering insecurities.

This story from AP this morning:

"TULSA, Oklahoma - Edgar Castorena had diarrhea for 10 days and counting, and the illegal immigrant parents of the 2-month-old did not know what to do about it.

They were afraid they would be deported under a new Oklahoma law if they took him to a major hospital. By the time they took him to a clinic, it was too late.

A ruptured intestine that might have been treatable instead killed the U.S.-born infant, making him a poster child for opponents of a bill months before it was enacted as the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007.

The law, billed by its backers as the toughest U.S. legislation against illegal immigration, took effect Nov. 1. It bars illegal immigrants from obtaining jobs or state assistance and makes it a felony to harbor or transport illegal immigrants.

"The sad part of it was the child didn't have to die if House Bill 1804 didn't ever come around," said Laurie Paul, who runs the clinic where Edgar was finally taken. "It was a total tragedy because the bill was there to create the myths and untruths and the fear."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22845808


Now I'm not going to sit here and declare that I have all the solutions for the immigration problems in this country - but this persecution of everything "brown" by the constantly-obsessed con-servatives is beyond the pale.

I'm beginning to think that con-artist con-servatives are the ultimate American welfare queens. They hate paying any taxes, yet love to spend government money, as long as it is on themselves. They'll steal the GLBT communities taxes to support hetero marriage benefits, hetero-only access (if you listen to con-servatives, they'll say con-servative-ONLY access) to serving in the taxpayer-funded military, they want the majority (those not living in con-servative-sanctioned 'family" units) to fork over money for con-servative ideal "families,"- ONLY. . .and then whine and whine if a penny of their own money goes to anything BUT themselves - unless it's for occupying another country.

[Gman]

1. Illegal immigration is nothing more than an illusionary wedge issue

The illegal immigration "problem" is a right wing generated issue that they came up with only after they ran out of other issues.

If you own a house built in the last 20 years, it's highly likely an undocumented worker worked on it. That fact sure doesn't stop people from buying new houses. The construction industry would collapse without undocumented workers.

[midnight]

28. That's right.... And there are more:

Race, Gender, Income , And same sex marriages. This makes me so sad... Look what the powerful have done. They are probably the pro-life ones too. I'm pro-life for all. Not just for the un-born.. Look at what we have become....

[FreakinDJ]

2. Tragic but it is still the parents fault

Bottom line – no matter what the circumstances a parent’s job is to protect the child.

That being said, 10s of 1000s of immigrants have legally, successfully obtained legal immigration status based on their child being born in the USA. A little due diligence, some paperwork and fees, and they could have done the same.

You really need to read the immigration laws to understand this is strictly a trumped up issue.

[kevinbgoode]

6. I understand that, but the child was only two months old. . .

I can't imagine someone being able to get legal immigrant status that quickly in this country. And what kind of ridiculous title is the "taxpayer and citizen protection" law anyway? After all, a fetus isn't a "citizen" according to the Constitution. . .and yet con-servatives want them protected. (yes, I know it is two different things. . .) :-).

[ingac70]

13. That is what I think...

I'd rather end up in Mexico with a live child than risk a dead child to stay in the US.

[Maine-ah]

3. how sad

:cry:

though, for me if it was the life of my child, I would rather take the chance of being deported than taking the chance that my child may die. What a horrible choice for these parents to have to make. My heart goes out to them.

[KatyaR]

4. It's sad that something like this has to happen.

This new law has done nothing but divide our community. The Capital Hill area, which was a thriving Hispanic area, is almost dead right now. Apparently many families have taken their children out of school because of deportation fears. Many legal citizens are also being harassed because they're seen as being "illegals" because of the color of their skin.

The author of this bill wants to pass another bill to deny US citizenship to any child born to illegal immigrants here in the state. This guy is a piece of crap, and he is pushing this state into something ugly.

Here's a good article that explains the situation.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0706993.htm

[FreakinDJ]

5. New Law - Not going to happen

would take an amendment to change the constitution and you can file that under "When Hell Freezes Over"

[KatyaR]

9. Yeah, well, this dumbshit representative must have failed

civics in high school--he actually thinks he can make this stick.

Rumor is that he's wanting to run for governor next term and thinks immigration will make it an easy win for himself. Unfortunately, I actually think he might be right. This bill has brought out latent white-surpremicist tendencies in a lot of people. I'm really disgusted living here right now.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. It's in the 14th Amendment.

And these gasbags want to repeal the citizenship part of it. How putrid.

[AlertLurker]

7. Cheesy spin...

Any parent that worries more over their immigration status than their child's life is a waste of space, period.

Blame "conservatives" all you want for immigration laws (although problematic immigration laws are better blamed on both sides of both houses) - but to completely abdicate responsibility for the life of your own child and then blame something as abstract as "laws" for the death is simply criminal.

I hate the M$M for bullshit like this.

[iamjoy]

8. That's Cold

It was poor judgement and immigration laws played a factor.

Babies get diarrhea, it happens. So when it does, how do you know if it will pass (pardon the expresion) or if it is serious? Like with fevers, some parents who panic and call the doctor every time their kid has a temperature elevated a teensy amount.

Look, sure the parents bear some responsibility, but their mistake may not have been in recognizing how dangerous the illness was. I'm sure they were thinking about "back home" where they didn't have easy access to medical care and how babies got sick, but recovered on their own. And if it really was minor, but they took the kid to the hospital, they might be refused treatment and deported.

It was a bad call, but that's easy to say in hindsight.

[AlertLurker]

10. COLD? HINDSIGHT? Puh-lease. How about EXPERIENCE, and COMMON SENSE?

I have raised two healthy sons.

If they ever had diarrhoea or a fever, I usually treated them, myself. BUT ONLY TO A POINT! If symptoms got worse, I took them to either emergency or to their paediatrician. There were a few times in their lives where I had to do EXACTLY THIS.

Even if I was in the country illegally, I would NEVER have let something as stupid or arbitrary as an immigration law stop me from getting my children the treatment necessary, period. NEVER.

There are just some games you don't EVER play.

The "parents" are 100% to blame, as far as I am concerned. "Bad calls" are for hockey, not for the lives of your children.

[High Plains]

17. What an arrogant ass.

Of course, you weren't ever in a country illegally, so you can be all righteous.

[pitohui]

18. they waited 10 days

even if they were "legal," how do i know that they were the kind of parents who would have waited 10 days "because it costs too much" or "i can't take the time away from work" or whatever reason

everybody in the 3rd world knows that babies die of untreated diarrhhea

to wait 10 days to seek treatment, how is that not deliberate, knowing manslaughter of the baby?

[TheMadMonk]

11. Except if you're poorly educated, you may not be aware of...

...just how dangerous even short bouts of diarrhea can be.

After all, due to the quality of the water in Mexico and many other non-1st world nations, it's just something that all kids go through and get over. Much like the thinking we in the West had about chicken pox, up until quite recently.

It's just a part of childhood for these people and depending on the environment can actually be a good thing, since it confers long term immunity to water that would lay one of us out flat.

When the bout became extended, they did try to do the right thing by their child, but unfortunately it was too late.

Their fear was real and in the context reasonable. And ultimately tragic.

Tell me are you for or against parents opting out of immunisation for childhood diseases?

And the blame for the laws goes far beyond politicians, whatever their strip. The true blame goes to The People. The people who enjoy the benefits of cheap, near slave labour, but do not want brown people occupying their neck of the woods and dragging property values down, even as they award themselves personal exemptions in the form of cheap housekeepers/gardeners/fruit pickers.

[AlertLurker]

15. I'm not saying that there is NOTHING to what you say.

I just firmly believe that, in the end, one must accept responsibility for one's actions (or inaction). People die every day, and the government does not kill them.

Poverty, ignorance and fear kills a heck of a lot of kids all over the world, but had many of them the access to healthcare facilities similar to ones available to this couple, many more would live.

I am all for legal immigration, but (as a farmer) I have to oppose illegal immigration.

Legal immigrants (I have hired them in the past, to pick apples) all have the same access to the same healthcare that I do...

As far as immunisation goes, I am unsure. I believe that the jury is still out. My kids were all immunised, as was I, but there is an alarming number of issues that agencies and NGOs are just bringing to light...

[TheMadMonk]

23. And there's a bloody good chance they are feeling responsible...

...every minute of every day and will do so for the rest of their lives.


No your government does not "kill" babies. Well not outside war zones anyway.

However it does make it very easy for the non-privileged of any age to die horribly of easily preventably causes. And it does it with the enthusiastic agreement of a very large segment on the population.

"...access to healthcare facilities similar to ones available to this couple,..." Oh really, a strict interpretation of the specific law these people were in fear of would require the clinic to turn them away, if the child's birth was undocumented, (A fair bet) presuming that it (the clinic) is at least partially state funded (also a fair bet). I am not suggesting that it actually would, but the parents might easily interpret it that way.


And why do you have to oppose illegal immigration? Well taking your next statement at face value, it is because your less principled colleagues who do use illegal immigrant labour, put you at an economic disadvantage. I admire your integrity.


No need to be unsure on the subject of immunisation. Just do the numbers. Even if every single instance of suspected adverse reactions to vaccines was absolutely true, the benefits still outweigh the risk by several thousand percent. Read some old church records or visit a few old graveyards: Half a dozen children in a single family all dead within a week of each other, all buried in the same plot, and in the next their playmates.

Those so called "alarming number of issues" when subjected to rigorous statistical analysis either disappear entirely, or at best/worst can only be reported as "anomalous results" or to put it crudely: "There is no rhyme nor reason to the figures, shit sometimes just happens, because shit happens."

(edit: bloody tags)

[pitohui]

19. sorry you're aware of it if you're from mexico or anywhere in the 3rd world

only in usa, canada, western europe, and japan can people be so sheltered as to honestly believe that people don't know that diarrhhea kills babies, this is something that happens every single day in the 3rd and 4th world, poor people see this happening all around them all the time in the 3/4th world

they knew, all right, they just couldn't be arsed to risk their own precious rear ends being deported, the baby's health came last

[TheMadMonk]

24. Yes it does. A fact of which I AM aware.

However, in those countries, it is also something that kids have to go through, whether the parents like it or not, BECAUSE of the water quality in those countries. And unlike whites with their "chicken pox parties" it is not something they deliberately encourage, simply something that they are pretty much unable to avoid.


"Couldn't be arsed" is an observation which is far more applicable to white parents who don't have anything to fear from the authorities. This is not to say that "people of colour" are not also neglectful, but I very strongly suspect that proportionate to relative populations, (and all else being equal) whites win the neglect prize hands down.

[eShirl]

12. and my ignore list grows

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Not every parent has the clarity of vision that you do

as a legal resident of a country with a national health plan.

Yes, the parents made a serious and irrevocable error in judgment and it cost the life of their child. They'll live with that forever.

It's not cheesy spin however to use this story as a window into the way such laws create a climate of fear in immigrant communities. That is in fact what the story is about. The anecdote excerpted by the OP is sadder still because the baby would have received care without consequence to the parents because the law had not yet been enacted.

[AlertLurker]

16. I readily admit my outlook is coloured by nationality and occupation.

Most of us fail to realize that we are all simply lucky accidents of birth/class/nationality...


You cannot expect me to believe that this story has not been spun, and spun "cheesily" at that, however:


"...They were afraid they would be deported under a new Oklahoma law...
.
..making him a poster child for opponents of a bill months before it was enacted as the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007...

...bars illegal immigrants from obtaining jobs or state assistance and makes it a felony to harbor or transport illegal immigrants...

..."The sad part of it was the child didn't have to die if House Bill 1804 didn't ever come around"...

..."It was a total tragedy because the bill was there to create the myths and untruths and the fear."


Creating FUD for CENTURIES. It's what the M$M DO.

[pitohui]

20. i agree, the story appears to be slanted and it portrays the parents as total fuckwits too

nobody who comes from the poor part of mexico is so fuckwitted as to not be aware that diarrhea kills babies, so the story is patronizing on top of insulting to the intelligence of the reader

it's just spin, spin, spin from beginning to end

oklahoma is probably an unpleasnt place to work and live, i've heard it from many people, have no reason to doubt it, but these parents are also a waste of space if you ask me

sometimes everybody's in the wrong

[Manifestor_of_Light]

22. What if they never saw their sick child again and were deported?

Who would take care of the baby if the parents were deported? All these anti-immigrant laws that state they would deport the parents never say who gets to support the children or who gets paid for the childcare and medical care they need. Are they all going to be foster children? And the burden will be dumped on the taxpayers? Talk about unintended or unforeseen consequences.

[kineneb]

26. it has happened already

Somewhere east of the Rockies (memory bad), several meat processing plants were raided. The non-citizen adults were deported, leaving their minor citizen children behind, either with relatives or friends. They may never see their children again. Some "family values"; apparently those values are for WASP/Repubs only.

"Deportee" is playing in my head...

[TheMadMonk]

25. And despite its much ballyhooed claim to being The Land of Oportunity....

...there are very few (if any) nations that work harder to ensure that any given individual will live his life out according to the "accident of his birth".

Yes there was some spin in the story. However, consider this: Despite being almost totally in the pockets of "certain interests" in this instance the M$M is taking a remarkably liberal stance. There ARE limits. And this story strongly suggests that the Oklahoma legislature has stepped far beyond them.

FUD is the province of the privileged (privilege = private law, in case you didn't know). Sometimes the mainstream media works for them, and sometimes against. Your characterisation of the media is pure FUD in its own right. Not good.

[williesgirl]

27. Sorry, but I too blame the parents, not the pending law. The health of your child must

come first. They put themselves and their wish to remain illegally in this country over the life of their own child.

Blame Mexico for sending all their poor, uneducated people here to make money to send back to them if you must blame a government. It's much easier than to fix their own corruption.

I feel bad for the baby who suffered as a result of his parents' selfishness.

[pingzing58]

29. Wow what a heartless response to the death of an innocent U.S. citizen. You can't be prolife.