Et tu Baby Einstein? Founder is BUSH guest at SOTU and is a large supporter of Republicans

[Oreo]

Julie Aigner-Clark, creator of the Baby Einstein videos was a guest of Laura Bush last night at the SOTU.
I always thought she looked like she'd be a Repub but now it's definite.

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php?addr=&search=Search+by+Location&type=loc&zip=80016
MR. WILLIAM E CLARK
AIGNER CLARK L.L.C.
George W. Bush
$2,000
DENVER, CO 80016

http://www.aignerclarkcreative.com/


http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=63646

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. You "thought she looked like she'd be a Repub?"

What physical characteristics does she have that are prominent in Republicans? :shrug:

[Oreo]

2. She just puts off that vibe when you see her

Call it Gaydar for Republicans but I always had a feeling she was

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Maybe her facial expressions make her look like she's never had a satisfactory orgasm?

Or drives a big SUV festooned with "support the troops" ribbons. That's all I can think of.

[Vinca]

22. You can spot the Stepford Republican women in an instant.

Besides, what Democrat in their right mind would allow themselves to be exploited to become a memorable moment in a lackluster speech given by an idiot?

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. You are assuming that everyone who is not a Republican is a Demcorat

[Vinca]

44. Okay, try this edited version on for size.

"Besides, what nonRepublican human being in their right mind would allow themselves to be exploited to become a memorable moment in a lackluster speech given by an idiot?"

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. I'll tell you who:

Someone who want to get on national television.

[Vinca]

61. Geez - just like American Idol. nt

[theboss]

119. I would go....

If I was invited to the State of the Union by the President, I would attend in a heartbeat. If it was Nixon in 1974, I would be there.

[unpossibles]

3. irony is a company called Baby Einstein supporting Bush

I don't think I would trust them to be able to teachify anything.

[merbex]

70. LOL n/t

[JackRiddler]

74. Evil is videos for 1-2 year olds

Something people understood when first confronted with Teletubbies...

CFCC Complaint to FCC

In May, 2006, the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood filed a lawsuit and a complaint to the FCC against the makers of Baby Einstein and similar series geared towards very young children. They cite false advertising by these companies, due to the American Academy of Pediatrics recommendation that children under two do not watch television <2>, and a study showing that only 6% of parents are aware of the recommendation, <3> <4> yet 49 percent of parents think educational videos like these are very important in the intellectual development of children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Einstein

About the campaign:
http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0510-10.htm

Side note: Advertising aimed at children was banned in Sweden. You'd think people would be human enough to be revulsed at the idea without needing a law, but obviously we do need such a law.

[Rosemary2205]

4. The woman is the picture of entreprenuership.

I totally respect what she's done starting out of her basement. This is what America is all about. Creating something from nothing. I can hate that she supports the Pubes and still respect what she did business wise.


BTW - do we really expect Bush to pick ALL people that hate his guts? Come on now..........

[Oreo]

6. I can't deny that

Both my kids love the videos.

It's just sad that she wants to help kids but supports somebody who doesn't think twice about shipping them to their death as soon as they're old enough. Her kids won't have to worry about the economic hole Bush is digging for future generations.

[Unperson]

15. Entrepreneurship = corporate imperialism.

"Starting out of her basement" yeah right. I prefer cooperation over competition.

[RB TexLa]

23. So people should not create products and sell them?

why would you question that many people start their companies out of their basement or living room?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. and even worse

find a niche that was essentially empty (at least from a home video standpoint) and fill it with educational products for children...i just don't understand how you can argue against success when that success has been achieved through doing something helpful for the world.

sP

[adigal]

27. I have a bookstore, and I WON'T be ordering any of her videos

I cannot control the world, but I can control, a little bit, who I support with my $$. If a customer asked for them explicitly, I would get it, but otherwise - Nope.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

29. that simply hurts your sales...

that's the harsh reality of it. someone wanting the product will order it or get it elsewhere...and YOU lose out. not a good bargain...less money for you to donate to the political competition.

sP

[Rosemary2205]

30. Taking a stand

if you had a customer specifically ask for it, wouldn't it be more socially reponsible - from your viewpoint- to tell your customer than you can't, in good conscious, sell those products because the company that makes them supports Republicans?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

32. and worse...look over the publishing houses

and see how many of them donate to repulican causes...might just kill your stock if you are consistent with your boycott.

sP

[adigal]

36. Well, I do what I can

And you do what you do. I would never buy this woman's products for my kids, but I don't call you irresponsible because you do.

Einstein's Babies will grow up and get sent to Iraq if her president has his way.

[adigal]

33. I would explain my reason for not having it

but I wouldn't refuse a direct request. I just won't promote it by having it in my store.

[adigal]

40. Plus, I don't think that creating videos is being helpful

to the world. As I said below, there are a lot better ways to educate your kids. I talked with my kids, read to them, went on nature hikes, and my kids were reading by 3 and 4 years old.

Videos do not make kids smart. They make them inactive.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. it is as with any tool in how you use it

my wife and I would actually sit with them and interact and watch them. It was very beneficial to them and to us as we did not have the resources to provide all the info that they provided in the time and manner that they did.

To each his/her own. Our children are better for having had access to those videos.

sP

[JuniperLea]

121. Videos do not make kids smart. They make them inactive.

You nailed it! The level of laziness in parenting these days boggles the grey matter!

I read to my kids since birth. Whatever I happened to be reading was read aloud. When they started saying their first words, I bought a ton of books (from a local, independent bookstore I might add) and read to them every single day of their lives until they could read on their own. Then I had them read to me.

We played games. I have an extensive collection of board games and several books on card games. On the occasion my children sat down to Sesame Street or Electric Company or whatever, we watched it together and talked about it, sang along, etc. We also made good use of the local teacher's supply store (also independent) and we had flash card games galore. We had a lot of fun too.

I cherish the memories and I know my kids do to. We still talk about those days and the kids are all in their 20's now.

These videos are just another excuse for parents to use "Uncle Boob Tube" as a babysitter. That's totally unfair to the child... and the parent for that matter.

[Bjorn Against]

99. How is it helpful to the world to provide videos to babies?

No pediatrician would recommend putting a baby that young in front of the television, children that young should not be watching television it is not good for their development. What is so noble about video tapes for babies? I just do not understand.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

104. you have obviously never seen a child learning from them

as we have with our little ones. We sit and watch them as a family and interact with our children all the way through and our little ones have definitely done well by them. But hey, speak about something you have never seen...

sP

[Turbineguy]

120. Yesterday we had the Grandson over

he's 15 months now. We played the Baby Einstein Mozart DVD. He dances to the "Turkish March". After a while I turned down the TV sound and played a CD with some mixed Mozart pieces. He definetly noticed the difference and walked around the loudspeakers to investigate.

One of my oldest friends swears by the series and so does my Daughter-in Law.

I've seen him interact with other programs in the series and I can't see the problem. Obviously if you had to have the TV on anyway (which a lot of people seem to do) this is better than most daytime TV.

I wish however they would spend less time on credits and branding.

[JuniperLea]

123. good for you for sitting and watching with your kids

most of the people i know slap the video in/turn the tv on and walk away. therein is where the problem lies, imho.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Oh, that's just silly.

I can understand not wanting to patronize her stuff because she's a Bush booster (not to mention the fact that, in my opinion, much of it is overpriced junk) but seriously- railing against free enterprise and entrepreneurship is like arguing with the ocean to keep the tide from coming in. Give me a break.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with creating something other people might like, and then selling it to them. :eyes:

[Unperson]

96. You are wrong.

One is a force of nature, the other is a flawed human concept. Entrepreneurship creates the "haves and havemores"

[Warren DeMontague]

100. Oh. Okay.

And precisely how is a "flawed" human concept not a force of nature? Aren't humans, our brains, and our concepts, even, part of nature?

Can you give me an example of a non-"flawed" human concept?

Or an example where free enterprise has been completely, and successfully, eliminated from the human experience?

Since you're so passionate about this, I assume it would be correct to assume that you don't get paid for the work you do. ---Because if you do, that's "entrepreneurship".

[Unperson]

101. Here you go.

Faith is a human concept that is not flawed. By it's nature faith is flawless. It can be neither qualified nor quantified.

[Warren DeMontague]

102. Wow. You are just a font of completely, utterly, astoundingly meaningless statements.

Welcome to DU. 'Nite.

[Unperson]

114. It must be lonely up there.

Having to look down on all us peons. FA-Q

[Warren DeMontague]

115. No, it's enough work trying to decipher incomprehensible gibberish like

"Faith is a human concept that is not flawed. By it's nature faith is flawless. It can be neither qualified nor quantified."

That. Means. Absolutely. Nothing.

Nothing.

There is no informational content in that statement whatsoever. "By it's nature faith is flawless"? Really? Define "flawless". Shit, define "faith". Faith can't be qualified or quantified? Bullshit. Some people's "faith" tells them that the Earth is 6,000 years old. Not only can that be qualitatively shown to be factually incorrect, it can be quantifiably shown to be off by a figure of around 4 billion, 6 hundred and ninety four million years, more or less.

And wait a minute. Five minutes ago you were spouting vaguely marxist claptrap about how entrepreneurship is equivalent to "corporate imperialism". You've got the American Atheist symbol as your avatar. Yet here, you're waxing like a would-be dime store Aquinas with indecipherable jabber about the perfection of faith.

Hmmm. Smells funny.

[Unperson]

116. Yup, you caught me. I'm just spouting shit.

Because I'm bored with you. I do think that competition is bad for America though.

[Warren DeMontague]

125. Hey, at least you're honest.

I suppose.

Again, welcome to DU.

[Eurobabe]

107. It's just another example of grooming little consumers

I don't have alot of respect for companies that try to cultivate next generation buyers.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

5. republican or democrat or libertarian or socialist or fascist or demon

i don't care. baby einstein products and especially the videos have thrilled and educated my first two little ones and will with my third. boycotting someone/something/somecompany on the basis of their political affiliation will lead you to hermit-hood pretty quick if you are consistent about it.

sP

[Oreo]

9. OK

So maybe a bit too far to boycott them as they are really good videos. Like I said my kids love them.
I just find it hard to believe that someone who cares so much about kids can support such an evil administration.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. that we can agree on

she has done some wonderful stuff. we use the vids and the flash cards and a couple of the little puppets (ok, we made one of them) and the kids just love them. combined with the thomas the tank engine bits, my oldest knew her colors and could count to ten before anyone in her age group...and she had fun doing it...

sP

[otohara]

7. She Lives In Heavy Puke

neighborhood, not in Denver - but Centennial.

[Oreo]

17. Hey! That's my town you're talking about!

Sucks doesn't it? Anywhere that re-elects Tancredo is not right. At least my neighbors are Dems!

[otohara]

113. Town ???

Centennial is mostly made up of office bldgs, isn't it?

Just kidding, I know there's a million condo's out there too?

[Parche]

8. einstein

What is a baby einstein? never heard of it

[Oreo]

11. Videos for babies and toddlers

[Parche]

21. baby einstein

Then send all of her baby einsteins to Iraq!!!!!! .........just kidding

[AspenRose]

88. go here

www.babyeinstein.com

[NewYorkerfromMass]

117. well we know what it is NOT

and Bush is that.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. That baby Einstein stuff is crap, too.

There's nothing remotely "Einstein" about it. Someone should tell her that the Real Einstein (unlike Bush) actually believed in science.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. i disagree with it being crap

my oldest ( who is now four ) can recite poetry, play music, read (to some degree) and recognize various works of art all thanks in part to that 'crap'. She loved the videos and to say they did not help/reinforce her learning would be to totally disregard her progress.

sP

[Warren DeMontague]

79. Fair enough. What I saw of it, I wasn't impressed.

A lot of videos of sock puppets for $19.98 each.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

81. not trying to malign your lack of impression...but...

have you ever watched a child watch these things? As an adult, I find myself bored to tears if I try to watch one. But when the girls watch, they light up. Something about the colors, movement and music that just makes them love those videos. To us it would very easily look like videos of sockpuppets...but to them it is another world. I don't get entertained by most puppet shows that would entertain a two year old. These videos have the addition of trying to teach something at the same time.

sP

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Yes, I have. We've also tried to limit the tv as much as possible for our kid as a toddler.

I just don't think there's anything inherently "brilliant" or "educational" about them. To give our kid an appreciation of music, we just play music- everything from Mozart and Bach to the Dead.

Do kids get fascinated by the Baby Einstein stuff? Sure. I think many little kids would find one of those video aquariums as entertaining and educational as the baby Einstein videos. I also don't think there's any scientific basis to claim that those vids are particularly educational. I wouldn't argue they're particularly detrimental, but my question was whether they're really worth 20 bucks or whatever it is per DVD.

It could be that your kids are just smart, and Baby Einstein doesn't really deserve credit for any of it- but, whatever. Glad you got a lot out of them. One thing I'm pretty adamant about is, I don't tell other people how to run their affairs (or raise their kids) and all I expect in return is the same courtesy. Peace.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

89. please don't think

that I am attributing all of our childrens' progress to a bunch of 24 minute video snippits. I just know that they have the inherent intelligence of their parents and that is indeed a great deal of the issue...but I digress. :-) I think that as part of a learning program they serve a potential purpose. I do also like that they merge music and motion. Our little ones particularly like some music that I never would have thought they would like.

I seems like the biggest issue that people have with these is the whole 'Einstein' aspect. I can see where people might be lead to believe that just watching these things will turn your kid into some sort of a prodigy. My take is that if that is all you do to educate your child, you might want to also include videos on manual labor (Bob the Builder comes to mind) :-)

Thanks for the input.

sP

[Maine-ah]

13. how do you know she still supports george?

how current is that list? many people that supported him in the beginning don't now.

If you like, I'll take any videos off your hands, I'll even buy them from you. You can PM if you like.

[Oreo]

16. 2004

It's possible but she did show up with Pickles last night.

[Marie26]

14. How do you know it isn't her husband?

She's a major CEO, she'd be able to donate in her own name.

[RB TexLa]

19. That is her husband

It says Mr. William E Clark.

I not saying I know who she supports but that is not her donation.


On edit: He isn't even a large supporter of republicans, he gave one $2,000 donation.

[Oreo]

24. He gave a BUNCH of money to Thune too

http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/advindsea.shtml

CLARK, WILLIAM
AURORA, CO 80016
CONSULTANT

THUNE, JOHN
VIA JOHN THUNE FOR US SENATE
02/11/2004 2000.00 24020232520
03/26/2004 1000.00 24020232520

CLARK, WILLIAM
CENTENNIAL, CO 80016

THUNE, JOHN
VIA JOHN THUNE FOR US SENATE
12/31/2004 -500.00 25020063430

CLARK, WILLIAM
CENTENNIAL, CO 80016
CONSULTANT

THUNE, JOHN
VIA JOHN THUNE FOR US SENATE
08/17/2004 1000.00 24020920339

CLARK, WILLIAM
LITTLETON, CO 80124
CONSULTANT

THUNE, JOHN
VIA JOHN THUNE FOR US SENATE
02/10/2004 500.00 24020232355

CLARK, WILLIAM E
LITTLETON, CO 80124
CONSULTANT

THUNE, JOHN
VIA JOHN THUNE FOR SOUTH DAKOTA
06/04/2002 1000.00 22020440222
10/07/2002 1000.00 22020851982

CLARK, WILLIAM E MR.
CENTENNIAL, CO 80016
SELF-EMPLOYED

REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
03/03/2004 500.00 24991140785

CLARK, WILLIAM E MR.
CENTENNIAL, CO 80016
SELF-EMPLOYED/CONSULTANT

REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
07/30/2004 500.00 24962165690
08/06/2004 750.00 24981296799
09/30/2004 1000.00 24971803954

CLARK, WILLIAM E MR.
DENVER, CO 80016
AIGNER CLARK L.L.C./SELF-EMPLOYED

BUSH, GEORGE W
VIA BUSH-CHENEY '04 (PRIMARY) INC
04/30/2004 250.00 24961366461
06/03/2004 500.00 24961897608
08/03/2004 500.00 24971488386
08/13/2004 -500.00 24971488386

CLARK, WILLIAM E MR.
DENVER, CO 80016
SELF-EMPLOYED

BUSH, GEORGE W
VIA BUSH-CHENEY '04 COMPLIANCE COMMITTEE INC.
08/13/2004 500.00 24971504988

CLARK, WILLIAM E MR.
DENVER, CO 80016
SELF-EMPLOYED/AIGNER CLARK L.L.C.

BUSH, GEORGE W
VIA BUSH-CHENEY '04 (PRIMARY) INC
07/31/2004 1150.00 24962151666


Total Contributions: 11150.00

[RB TexLa]

26. OK, I missed that. But that is still him and not her.

[President Jesus]

28. Then why hasn't SHE donated? Or are you suggesting only her husband counts?

After all, she's the one who made all the money, so if she were such a puke, why isn't she the one making the donations?

[CoffeeCat]

31. Of course she's a Republican, she's a con artist...

This woman makes millions by convincing parents that television is wonderful and
intellectually stimulating for babies.

This woman helps mothers who make poor choices about their children--feel like they're
super clever and caring humanitarians.

You know those women who want a double-income household---so they can buy more Pottery Barn,
granite counter tops--and pay for 2 giant SUVs in the driveway?

This woman appeases and caters to those types.

No big shocker that she's a Republican.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. well my wife is a stay at home mom

and she COULD earn more than I do but we wanted her to be home to nuture the girls. We have those videos in our home and have found them to be very good for the girls. It IS stimulating and it teaches something along the way...from simple color associations, to language skills, to music, poetry and art appreciation.

sP

[adigal]

42. You could read or talk to your kids and teach them that

as I am sure you do. YOu don't need some crappy videos, which make children passive learners.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

48. we do...

and my girls dance to the music and marvel at some of the video imagery created there. A book is just as passive as a video, but no one complains about a little one leafing through a book on art...

sP

[Maine-ah]

63. baby einstein also has learning toys, books & music

not just videos. maybe you should learn about their products first, before spouting-off about them.
http://www.babyeinstein.com/

[CoffeeCat]

45. I don't think having those videos alone...

is a poor choice--or makes a person a bad parent.

However, I think there is a general trend these days--that parents look for the easy way out.
Not all parents, but some.

Some parents work to feed their "I gotta keep up with the Joneses" mentality. When they get home
from work--after their children have languished in daycare for 10 hours--and they're too exhausted
to spend quality time with their children---popping in a video is the answer for some of them.

I think this is wrong. I think it's cultivating a lot of anger and behavior disorders in children.

I think that's great that your wife stays home and that she has these videos. There's nothing
wrong with popping them in every once in a while--as part of a full, lively day of varied activities.

I'm talking about vacuous, self-centered parents who use these videos to extend their neglectful parenting
habits even further--like the 2 hours that they're home with them!

I feel very strongly about this, because I see the damage. I live in the 'burbs and I see these hurt
children. They have serious emotional problems.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. i agree with your statements about the Joneses and the

fear that some people have with keeping up. But these videos, and the person who created them, have done a lot of good for a lot of people. I don't think (I don't KNOW this person) the developer of these videos and the creativity that is shown in them would be there just to cater to the crowd you mentioned. There is too much good that is there...and you know, even if she IS as you previously described, then so be it. Her videos have been a joy for my children and helped them learn some stuff along the way.

You are 100% correct...a video ALONE will not benefit...but when used as part of a nurturing, educational home life they can be great tools.

sP

[sandnsea]

56. My 18 mos old LOVES them

We were doubtful, but he really liked them from almost birth. He now knows his shapes, colors, numbers and about half the alphabet. I don't know that they're the Baby Einstein alone, but classical music and visual stimulation can't hurt.

[Stuckinthebush]

57. Yes, the videos are very good

Her political affiliations aside.

Video is often used along with other types of educational materials to stimulate children. This is appropriate. I guess there are a few anti-TV-for-anything radicals, but most educators and child development specialists would tell you that video is a wonderful developmental tool when used appropriately.

Auditory - visual - tactile...use 'em all!

[RB TexLa]

35. "who want a double-income household"

What is wrong with a married woman wanting an income?

What is wrong with Pottery Barn?

What is wrong with granite counter tops?

I guess you are going to say that 15 MPG is so so much worse than 40 MPG.

[CoffeeCat]

39. I was describing...

...a vacuous yuppie-type---who is completely materialistic and who ALSO thinks that
spending quality time with her children means plopping them down in front of the
television.

I think there are lot of parents out there like this. I think it's morally repugnant.
People are too materialistic. They make money solely to keep up with the Joneses--and
their kids suffer from neglect.

The woman who makes these videos caters to and enables this selfishness.

There is nothing inherently evil about Pottery Barn and granite counter tops. It's about
making these things the epicenter of your life--at the expense of your children and everything
else around you. I believe these videos are an extension of that materialism, selfishness
and neglectful behavior.

[RB TexLa]

46. At least my wife and I can keep our 2 incomes, 3 vehicles and lakehouse since

we don't raise children. Thank you.

I don't know how much people think people are supposed to give up because they raise children, I don't know any women that have given up their career or business due to it. Most all of the parents I know have a vehicle for both, and improve their home. I don't think any of their children are neglected, many of them are exceptional.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. You're married?

That's surprising.

[RB TexLa]

52. A year this April, we will actually count it as 10 years since we lived together the 9 previous

[Catherine Vincent]

54. I figured it was hard for a woman to snatch you up.

I remember the story you told about the grocery store line and the woman that flirted with you.

[adigal]

43. Pottery Barn = no taste of your own

It means you have no taste, or you have taste but have no confidence in your taste, so you buy what all the other Yuppies have. Blech.

[Stuckinthebush]

55. I kind of like some of the PB stuff

Does that make me a no-taste yuppie?

yikes

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. yes. and me too.

heaven forbid that pottery barn (or any store) carry something that we might like cause that make US part of the problem...just damn.

sP

[adigal]

78. Yup! (just kidding)

[adigal]

38. Really - how about a nature walk for kids

with a packet of cards that identify bugs, or leaves or trees.

Noooooo.just put Baby Einstein in front of that DVD player, plug him in, and watch the active part of childhood fade away.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

51. how about a rainy day when you desire to do that?

can't get out? how about sitting with your kids and watching them learn and at the same time have some fun too? Look, if all you ever did was show the videos, then I would agree that it would probably be to the detriment of your children and your relationship with them. But, you can't always go for a walk (especially when you have three under the age of five). Using these videos as a part of the education/entertainment of your children is NOT wrong and NOT bad for them.

Would you complain as much about my little four year old bookworm (who loved these videos when she was younger) who wants to sit and leaf through books on art? That is a pretty passive thing to do, no? She is a very active child, but likes to chill with her books sometimes. And you know what, I think we probably owe some of that to the interest that was partially generated in her by these videos.

sP

[Marnieworld]

58. wow

I'm not a mother and even I was offended by this. Most women that work work because they have to. Just because a family has two incomes doesn't mean that that is a bad mother.

Why do you judge people just because they have earned enough to treat themselves?

Also, television can be wonderful and intellectually stimulating to anyone of any age. You just have to be discriminating.

Just like mobiles help babies minds so can video images. I'm not an expert in either subject but I'd be open-minded to it despite whatever political leanings the creator had.

[CoffeeCat]

97. Yup...

I was speaking specifically about vacuous, selfish people who don't pay
attention to their children---at all--but they pay loads of attention to their
possessions.

I don't think that two incomes, or people who "treat themselves" are bad things.

My problem is with the INTENT of SOME people---it's not with women having jobs, or two-income
families or people who shop at Pottery Barn, or people who have second homes. All of those
things are fabulous.

Some people seem to be terribly caught up in "Keeping up with the Jonses". As a consequence,
for some of them--their children, their personal lives and their own personal growth suffers.

I don't think I've communicated my points very well, but that's ok.

[Marnieworld]

109. well you've communicated your points well now

It's clear that you are a parent who takes their job very seriously and all that you said was based on concern for the children who have parents who don't.

It's hard to speak with nuance on message boards and I was responding to more of a sweeping generalization that you have since clarified.

Personally, I think parenting is such a hard important job that I decided I wasn't up for it myself. Better that than to affect someone negatively with my bad parenting. I have nothing but respect for those that try it and do well.

:hi:

[Dora]

41. If it's at all relevant to this discussion, she no longer owns B.E.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Einstein

Disney bought Baby Einstein a few years ago. Julie A-C does some consulting for Baby Einstein, but is no longer the owner of the company.

Oh, and they pay significant royalties to Einstein's estate. I found that interesting.

[jmowreader]

62. She's doing safety videos now

The homepage says her new videos help teach children to always make good choices.

I'm going to assume she doesn't make a video entitled "why you should never vote Republican."

[Zodiak]

64. Ah, so the product is Disney, now.

I do not think I need to go into DU's consensus feelings about Disney.

I have nothing against this woman...if she wants to be a goos-stepping Bush suporter, then let her at it. Maybe she'll wake up...maybe she won't. I do not care about "Baby Einstein", either. If it is as good as Sesame Street was for me, then there is nothing about which to complain?

What bothers me is this: Bush brings this woman out with her little self-help story and paints a picture that agrees with the pre-conditioning 99.9% of Americans receive...that capitalism is the most important thing about America because anyone can achieve the "American dream". It was a moment to worship the mighty dollar and tell joe sixpack sitting at home in the trailer park that he can be rich, too, and the opportunity is enough to justify him getting no help or a leg up.

Does this one woman's story negate the millions upon milllions of desperate people without a home...without healthcare? Because that is how the myth is presented to us...isn't it?

If everyone in the US started a business out of their basement and got 200 million dollars out of it, the rest of the world would be in abject poverty. Welcome to the world of finite resources.
---------------------------------------
One more thing....two-incomes are bad ONLY if everyone feels they have to do it (like nowadays). This is not a sexist argument (because I like the idea of a man staying at home to take care of kids...Scandinavians do that more often than we), but one of resources and politics. For one, forcing every household to have two careers vastly increases competition for jobs..leaving those less qualified without a living wage and driving the quality of life at work downwards. Second, it creates this "you are worthless unless you draw a payceck" mentality that makes homemakers, the disabled, the elderly, and the disaffected feel like everyone despises them for being "mooches".

I haven't even mentioned what this two-income household phenomenon has done many of our children. We all know the argument.

Surely everyone has noticed that a job you could get with a high school degree now requires a four-year degree. And those that do not graduate high school (and there are a lot of them) are lucky to get any job at all. Do these people deserve the have a family and a decent life, too?

We Americans make such great worker bees...we give up everything for job and career (low wages, low vacations, healthcare denial, lack of privacy at work, etc.), but do we ever think why?

[Renew Deal]

59. I knew she bought her way into that speech.

:puke:

[verse18]

60. There has been some research done

Which shows baby videos do nothing. It's the same with the baby Mozart tapes. I went to an excellent workshop on infant brain development and utilizing environmental stimulation as well as play to help babies learn. The doctor presenting the workshop, I can't recall her name, was directly asked about the effectiveness of these types of methods and she said there was no evidence found that those methods work.

[Zodiak]

65. Not that I doubt you,

but I citation in the form of a link would be helpful to bolster this claim. I only say that because it runs counter to all ofthe testimonials on this thread (which are anecdotal and may be misinterpreted).

[ProdigalJunkMail]

67. you cannot test this sort of thing

you can't create a control group as there are too many variables. Your only hope would be a few sets of twins (and yes, I know identical twins are not IDENTICAL in every way but it is as close as I can get) and isolate one from the videos and then make sure everything thing else about their upbringing is identical and then...oh hell, you can't do that.

The reason there is no evidence that these don't make any difference is that there is no way to test it with a control and therefor no way to validate or invalidate the claims made. All I know is that our children love them. We spend time as a family watching and interacting through these videos and other products of this company. Our children have appreciation and knowledge of things that other children seem to not be interested in...

sP

[Zodiak]

69. I am no sociologist

So I cannot comment on how one would set up controls. I'll take your word for it.

I'm just a bug guy...waaaaay fewer variables.

If it is true that this canot be tested, then one cannot make a claim either way, and one is only left with the anecdotal.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

71. exactly correct

people who bash these sorts of things usually have some sort of other agenda. I don't care if you use them or not. If you don't like them...keep them out of your house. If you have friends that recommend for or against and you trust them...go with it. If they had damaged your child in some way that you felt you could directly attribute to the product, then by all mean shout it from the rooftop. But to come out swinging over a product with which you have zero direct experience reeks of something...I'll let you guess of what I am speaking. :-) Mentioning a study (with no link, no less) that cannot validate or invalidate the anecdotal evidence due to a lack of methodology...that reeks too.

sP

Bug man, aye? Study em or exterminate em...cause I got a problem with ants :-)

[Zodiak]

90. I study 'em

But I know how to kill 'em, too. I am an insect physiologist.

[verse18]

72. The doctor was Lise Eliot, Ph.D.

http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/cms/neuro/facultypages/Eliot/eliot.cfm

She is a neurobiologist who wrote the book, What's Going on in There? : How the Brain and Mind Develop in the First Five Years of Life.

As far as I know, she is one of the experts in the field of infant brain development. When asked directly during our workshop, she said the research does not support the efficacy of these methods. Anyone interested in getting the specific research study should contact her.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

76. I am not sure exactly what question you posed to her

in the workshop so I copied your post and emailed it to her with some attendant questions. My concern is that studies done along this line that say there is no efficacy in ANY learning method would be severly flawed by the inability to create a sufficient control group against which the test could be validated.

I anxiously await her answer.

sP

[verse18]

77. What I gathered from what she said

was that personal interactions and stimulating environments help with the development of neural pathways in the brain from birth to about age 5. Putting a child in front of a screen may keep them entertained, but there is no proof that there is any direct learning from the method. During the workshop, she talked about having a group of babies watching a video of one of her students reading a book in Mandarin Chinese. A second group of babies were read to directly by the same student, and Dr. Eliot said the second group of babies responded to words said to them in Chinese, whereas the first group of infants did not.

I hope you get the answers you are looking for.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

80. that is very interesting and I hope she gets back to me

but I am sure she is busy and as a leading researcher/presenter it might be some time. My thinking is this: if the videos were used alone then the statements she has made would hold true. Heck I am not even sure our 19 month old can even see the TV :-). But, we always sat/sit with them and interact/ed a great deal as a part of the video watching experience. Now my four year old recites poetry from the Baby Shakespeare DVD and looks at art books and says, "This is on Baby van Gogh." She is obviously getting something from it...she can even peck out some of the tunes on the piano that she has heard on the DVD's.

I know that anecdotal evidence does not a peer reviewed study make, but for us these videos have been a fun way for the girls to learn and have fun at the same time.

sP

[verse18]

83. This is my biggest concern with using TV as a teaching method.

"if the videos were used alone then the statements she has made would hold true."

I'm afraid this will led parents to think a nice new dvd is all they need and their babies will turn into geniuses. The way you use the videos with your child, in conjunction with the personal interaction, you turn it into teachable moments for your child. And, sitting down with your child to reiterate the lessons learned from the videos has more impact on brain development and learning than actually watching the video itself.

[Zodiak]

91. Anecdotal is valid

if you are the anecdote. What works for you, works for you...no one else can make that observation from the internet.

[Maine-ah]

66. I guess Sesame Street, Electric Company, and Mr. Rogers

never taught any of us anything?

I'd like to know, how many of those that are against this type of programming are actually parents.

And, please find some sort of link to your claim about this type of programming not being efective.

Thankyou. :hi:

[Katherine Brengle]

87. I think the vast majority of people who actually HAVE children...

are more flexible about this stuff. Before I had my daughter, I was much more rigid in my thinking about television and lots of other parenting issues. You can't truly know until you've done it.

Right now, in New England, it's too cold to play outdoors, it's too expensive to go on outings all the time to indoor places where we can do fun things, so sometimes, yeah, we veg out in front of Sesame Street for awhile under some warm blankets. My daughter is 2 years old and she knows the entire alphabet, can count higher than 10, knows her colors, speaks in long sentences and paragraphs, sings, dances, etc etc... She also watches television.

When she was younger, she watched Baby Einstein videos. Not as a replacement for other things like books and conversation, but as a supplement.

I grew up watching tv every single day when I was a kid, and no one batted an eye.

I think people use television as an umbrella scapegoat for the general failure in parenting we're seeing these days. TV or no tv, or somewhere in the middle, does NOT determine a child's development, health, future intelligence, happiness, OR the skill and caring of a parent.

[Maine-ah]

92. I think the "failure" is that parents can't spend the time with

their kids that they'd like to. I'm lucky, right now, I'm home with our daughter. Financially, it sucks, and I am going to have to find something during nights real soon. But many families have to have two incomes to make ends meet, thus less time to spend with kids. Then there is housework (dinners, laundry, cleaning ect...) on top of all that, so when you do have the free time, it's not very much. Damned if you do, damned if you don't....know what I mean? Basically, I think people that don't know what they're talking about need to butt out of other people's lives and deal with their own lives.

[Katherine Brengle]

95. Good point --

unfortunately we live in a system that forces too many families to have 2 or more incomes in order to survive. Not to have the "2 SUVs in the driveway and granite countertops" as someone said somewhere today, but just to pay the basic bills and put food on the table.

This country has got to be one of the least child/family/mother/parent friendly countries in the developed world.

[Midlodemocrat]

122. I'll tell you one thing, when I had three under the age of 5

if it weren't for Barney or Hap Palmer or Sillyville, I would have never had a shower or gone to the bathroom.

And, what do you know? All three are honor students, athletic, musical and interesting in their own way.

Who woulda thunk?

[bleedingheart]

112. but you see...that was free and therefore wrong so it needed to be privatized

so thus you find Baby Einstein and other niche industries that are not available for people to give their kids a dose of the kind of TV that we were exposed to as kids.

I bought my kids the Muzzy series for Spanish but yet in England it was on TV (that according to the literature in the box)...

[sakabatou]

73. Point being...?

[Marie26]

75. Her husband made a $2000 donation?

:shrug: I don't really get this thread.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

94. nice slap at someone you know nothing about n/t

[Eurobabe]

86. These videos are stupid anyhow...

Parents need to interact with their kids rather than popping in some dumb ass video.

[Perky]

98. Have you seen the videos?

Thet are widely praised as being innovative and exceptionally strong elements in early childhood education. Ask any school psychologist.

[Eurobabe]

106. Yes, I've seen them. I raised 2 gifted kids without BABY EINSTEIN

thank you. I never used half the crap that today's parents 'think' they need to raise an intellectual genius. Sorry, I really think today's parents are often times totally neurotic and don't let kids just be kids: this includes plenty of play without a gazillion computer teaching devices such as Leapfrog, DVDs, TV, etc.

Talk to your kids, listen to them. Don't let the trappings distract you from engaging one on one with your son or daughter. You'll raise more healthy human beings, and keep them from getting caught up in the marketing trap aimed at brainwashing little consumers.

Rant off.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

108. well, we engage them all the time

and these videos were used as a part of an education program we run in our home before our little ones go off to school. When used in that manner there is nothing wrong. The videos don't 'groom little consumers' as there is nothing in the primary part of the video about products or how to purchase them at all (there is stuff at the end for the parents if you let the video run on). It is a fun multimedia way to present the youngest with basic things like letters, numbers and colors and for the toddlers there is art appreciation and poetry. My kids dance and sing along with the videos and definitely learn something along the way. They see it more as play time than anything else.

I agree completely that some people will abuse this sort of thing as a babysitter for their kid or as a primary means of teaching them...that is dangerous in my view. But, if you listen to how the videos are presented to the parents, they are never intended to be used in that manner.

Julie Aigner-Clark produced videos that are (for my children and apparently some others in this thread) beneficial and fun. She doesn't seem to have any ill motive but if she does, then so-be-it. The tool itself is a good one.

sP

[Eurobabe]

127. I agree with you re: parents using videos as babysitters

When my kids were growing up, I think VCRs had just come out. I don't know, I guess I just prefer teaching the old fashioned way: reading to the kids, encouraging them to sound things out with phonics, cutting up construction paper together, etc. I supposed there is a time and place for DVDs, to each his/her own. It just wasn't right for me personally.

My kids are 25 and 23 now, and tremendous young ladies, they even actually LIVE together while the youngest is in graduate school. I think that is pretty amazing.

[Perky]

111. Suire glad there are experts out there ike you to keep us morons out of harm's way

Lighten up.

Baby Einstein videos help kids under 18 months very curious about the world around us. and my three year old with her 138 twice-validated IQ gets plenty of playtime. Thank you very much.

[Eurobabe]

126. Why the attitude, you crucify me for my opinion?

Seems like you are the one who needs to get over it and lighten up. I think it's terrific that your child is so bright, run with it!

[HuffleClaw]

93. bush should be censored for using the SOTU for product placement

i was disgusted by that.

[depakid]

103. Julie Aigner-Clark?

Please.

She's just another petty American that people around the world need to teach their children NOT to ever emulate.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

105. in what way has she been petty?

if you don't have kids or hate kids or something along those lines I can see where you would possibly come up with that. All she did was start a successful company while seeking to help develop the minds of young children. Oh...wait, maybe you don't like her because she IS successful or maybe it is just because Bush decided to acknowledge her contributions. As you obivously know nothing about her, why would you possibly make this comment?

sP

[depakid]

118. Check it out

Baby Einstein and the Bush Administration: There's More than Meets the Eye
by Susan Linn

It's fitting that Julie Aigner-Clark was singled out by President Bush in his State of the Union Address as a stellar example of entrepreneurship. The Baby Einstein Company, which she sold to Disney for more than $20 million in 2001, has a lot in common with his administration. Both specialize in brilliantly crafted, hugely successful, false and deceptive marketing to promote their brands. Both exploit fear as a tool for marketing. Both rely on building a passive and accepting media audience.

Preying on parental concerns about children's development, Baby Einstein brought in over $200 million to Disney in 2005 through unsubstantiated claims that its videos were educational for babies and by hyping a link that doesn't exist between its brand and learning (In 2006, the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood filed a Federal Trade Commission complaint against Baby Einstein for false and deceptive marketing; that complaint is pending) . The most horrifying example of the Bush administration's deceptive marketing and manipulation of fear is the war in Iraq--sold to us through unsubstantiated claims of weapons of mass destruction and by hyping a link that didn't exist between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.

<snip>

By targeting babies, companies are marketing not just products but lifelong habits, values and behaviors, hardwiring dependence on media before babies even have a chance to grow and develop and removing them further and further from the very experiences that are essential for healthy development-and for democracy.

More: http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0125-24.htm

[underpants]

110. This is a suprise?

[AspenRose]

124. I got this in my email today from CCFC

(Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood)

The following is the statement of the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood in response to President Bush using his State of the Union address to promote the Baby Einstein video series. During his speech, the President lauded Baby Einstein's founder, Julie Aigner-Clark, as an example of the "the heroic kindness, courage and self-sacrifice of the American people," and described the success of Baby Einstein in detail. In 2006, the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood filed a Federal Trade Commission complaint against Baby Einstein for false and deceptive marketing; that complaint is pending.

It is extremely disappointing that the President used his State of the Union address to provide a free infomercial for a company built on false and deceptive marketing. Despite its claims, there is no evidence that watching Baby Einstein videos is educational for babies and toddlers.

The President claimed that Ms. Aigner-Clark "represents the great enterprising spirit of America." We respectfully disagree. We don't believe that preying on parents' concerns about their children's well-being; deceiving customers about a product's benefits; or exploiting our youngest and most vulnerable children should have any role in the American marketplace.

Research suggests that -- for babies -- TV viewing may be harmful. It's been found to interfere with cognitive development, language development and regular sleep patterns. The more time babies spend in front of TV, the less time they spend engaging in two activities that really do facilitate learning: interacting with parents away from screens, and spending time in creative play.

TV viewing can also be habituating. For older children, hours of television watched are linked to bullying, poor school performance and childhood obesity.

Despite these concerns, more babies are spending more time in front of televisions than ever. They do so, in part, because well-financed sophisticated marketing campaigns insure that we've all heard of Baby Einstein. Meanwhile, only 6% of parents are aware of that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends no screen time for children under two.

Americans would be much better served if the President used the bully pulpit to promote the AAP's recommendation rather than promoting a company whose marketing deceives parents into believing that it's educational to plop babies in front of screens.

To learn more about CCFC's FTC complaint against Baby Einstein, Brainy Baby and BabyFirstTV, please visit http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/babyvideos/ftccomplaint.htm

If you have not yet signed our petition to the FTC urging them to investigate our complaint, please visit http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/ccfc/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=279

[JVS]

128. OMG She is teh EvilXXor!