Has Buddhism ever been "radicalized" ?

[Smith_3]

As far as I'm aware, of the five largest world religions, there have been fanatics from most. I know of violent christian fanatics, violent muslim fanatics and violent jewish fanatics. I'm not very educated about Hinduism, but I know that Hinduism has long been used to justify a class society. But what about Buddhism? Has Buddhism ever been interpreted in a violent way or been used as a tool of oppression? I am not aware of such an incident.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Ashoka

Kind of like the Buddhist St. Paul combined with Douglas MacArthur.

--p!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

7. Wasn't he a hindu when he expanded his empire and later

renounced war when he became a buddhist?

[Warpy]

18. He existed about the same time Buddha was sitting

under the Bodhi tree and becoming enlightened, but no one can call him a Buddhist. He most likely never heard of Buddha.

However, he was a typically ruthless ruler whose code of law showed that he was also remarkably enlightened for his time.

[Dogmudgeon]

34. More on Ashoka

The Wikipedia entry is a pretty good start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_the_Great

Most people are also unaware of the extent of his evangelism and the profound nature of the political changes he made (including the Edicts). He seems to have been one of the main sources of the introduction of Buddhist philosophy into Greece, which "informs" the philosophies of many Greek thinkers including Plato.

I'm certain that my few words about Ashoka are not even a good introduction to his life, but I hope it's enough to spur some curiosity. We Westerners tend to have an idealized, sterilized impression of Buddhism, which has always been a dynamic religious AND cultural movement with many facets -- a proverbial thousand-petaled lotus.

--p!

[rox63]

2. There have been Buddhist monks who set themselves on fire as a form of protest

That sounds pretty extreme to me.

[tekisui]

39. That is taking direct action, without ego, and causing no harm to another.

[babydollhead]

3. my guess...

a fanatic Buddhist would meditate on nothing for no time and continue breathing in and out. Not too scary. The premise is being where you are, no harm to sentient beings...the more fanatic, the less aggresive. That's what i get out of it.

[groovedaddy]

4. Not as an organized religion But that hasn't stopped practicing

buddhists from participating in violence, i.e. the viet cong or monks torching themselves in protest, the resistance movement in Tibet to name but a few.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

5. Like any other religion

If everone agreed with them things would be fine..

Sri Lanka is a good example of Buddhist Radicals..

[cosmik debris]

6. google "Buddhism and war"

it is educational.

[Smith_3]

8. Hmm, that's indeed interesting. I'll need some time to read. nt

[Warpy]

20. It can be argued that the leaders of nominally Buddhist countries

are too busy gaining, keeping and expanding power to bother much with the practice of meditation, which is what Buddhism is.

One thing about the practice, it takes all the starch out of the acquisitive nature.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. buddhism is supposed to be the improved hinduism. gautama buddha was unhappy with the class system

in hinduism when he went to seek answers.

a lot of hindus feel that both jainism and buddhism are a part of hinduism

[TechBear_Seattle]

21. Not quite: Buddhism and Hinduism are siblings, not parent/child

Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism all derive from the older Vedic religion of the Indo-Europeans (a group known as the Aryans who migrated into the Indian subcontinent between 1500 BCE and 1000 BCE.

As the Aryans settled, their culture changed. Crowded cities brought disease and famine. Previously fluid society stratified, creating a small, very wealthy elite and a large underpriviledged class. Previously infrequent tribal conflicts, focusing on honor and which could be resolved by small battles of honor, were replaced by all-out war over resources which could only be resolved through death and conquest. Previous modes of belief which were suited to small tribal bands of migrants, which focused on exacting rituals to deities of nature (asuras) and deities of ideology (devas), were seen as ineffective at staving off the woes of modern life, and people began to look for and develop other belief systems.

In the north and northwest, where Buddhism developped, this search looked inward to the mind and spirit. Discipline of mind and body brought clarity, it was believed; through this clarity, one could realize the illusion and find release from pain and suffering. This movement gave rise to Buddhism, yoga and several other practices.

In the south and southwest, the quest for spiritual meaning turned to gurus, men (and a very few women) who had studied the Vedas and taught a "deeper meaning" of the Aryan scriptures. Teachings and sermons circulated as part of an oral tradition for a while before being written down as upanishad, Sanskrit for "sitting down beside" and a reference to the position of a disciple hearing the teachings of a guru. These teachings and sermons would become Hinduism. Because of the vast body of Upanishads and the diversity of teachings, Hinduism was able to absorb and unify most other movements. This ecclecicism is still evident, where Hinduism has absorbed and adopted elements of Islam and Christianity. The Sikh religion arose out of a fusion of Hinduism and Islam.

Jainism appears to have been one of the very early schools of the southern movement that led to Hinduism. It resembles Buddhism and other northern schools to a great extent, but contains elements that make it distinct, such as an absolute position of ahisma, usually translated as "non-violence." Buddhism and Jainism are not mutually exclusive, and there are many people who profess both beliefs.

Edited for spelling.

[Uncle Joe]

30. A most informative post, TechBear_Seattle

thank you.:thumbsup:

[JackintheGreen]

10. In Sri Lanka

The Buddhist Sinhalese majority (or a minority thereof) has been radicalized against the Tamil (largely Hindu) minority. There's been a good bit of anthropology and political science written about it since about 1984.

[Akoto]

11. Well, as a Buddhist ...

I can tell you, at the very least, that I am not a radical. :)

It's important to note that, as with some other religions, there are divisions of Buddhism with different perspectives on things.

[Jed Dilligan]

12. Red Turban Rebellion

14th c. China


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Turban_Rebellion


White Lotus, a Buddhist sect, was one of the major sources of inspiration for the rebellion.

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. Genghis Khan was a Buddhist, and used Buddhism to unite his empire

Much in the same way that the Roman Empire was bound together through the cult of the Emperor, and Christianity was used to unite medieval Europe.

I don't know if that is what you mean by "radicalized."

[endarkenment]

14. The Japanese nationalists were all Buddhists.

Militarism and Buddhism are not incompatible.

[Jed Dilligan]

16. Not exactly

Buddhism and Shintoism are generally compatible faiths, and the Japanese honor both; the nationalist ideas came from the Shinto influence, not the Buddhist.

[arendt]

24. I remember a story in a Buddhist magazine about how the Japanese Army...

used Buddhist training by Buddhist monks to make the army fight to the death.

All that "this world is an illusion" stuff can make for some pretty fearless soldiers.

arendt

[Jed Dilligan]

29. Good point

Historically, East Asian armies can't be beaten by Western armies unless the Westerners have a major tech edge or numerical superiority. The often-suicidal fearlessness of the Asian soldiers has been a huge factor in this--ask any Vietnam or Korean War veteran.

[endarkenment]

25. I'm sorry but I continue to disagree on that.

I am very partial to Buddhist philosophy, but its distortion as reflected by Japanese militarism cannot be wished away by blaming Shinto.

A simple google reveals a wealth of Buddhist self criticism regarding this issue, for example:
http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/CriticalZen/soto_militariansim.pdf

or:
http://www.buddhistethics.org/11/loy.html

I can go on, but why? Surely you are familiar with the subject matter or can readily validate that this topic is quite well discussed within the Buddhist community.

[Jed Dilligan]

28. I'm not a Buddhist, just a student of history

The widely accepted religious basis of Japanese nationalism is the Shinto-based cult of the emperor. But I don't doubt there was complicity among the Buddhists as well.

[endarkenment]

31. That which is widely accepted is frequently also wrong.

You should read the links and google this subject. Blame Shinto is just good politics.

[NuttyFluffers]

40. Japanese militarism specifically embraced Zen for legitimization

it's a long tradition of militarizing Buddhism; taking martial sparse and conservation of motion and finding a religious sect that most bleshed with that aesthetic.

but this is 100s of years ago, which lays the foundation of the Yakuza and nationalists bid for expanded empire in the Taisho era, er, WWII era.

[LanternWaste]

15. I believe Buddhist monks were the primary catalyst...

I believe Buddhist monks were the primary catalyst for the recent protests in Myanmar against the military dictatorship. That's pretty "radical" to me (all other things being equal).

Unless you're simply fishing for the negatives, might I suggest 'World's Religions: Our Great Wisdom Traditions' by Huston Smith. It's a wonderful book which gives a pretty detailed history of the world's major religions, the cultures they grew out of, and the history they themselves made.

[Warpy]

17. A couple of years ago in Thailand

two groups of monks from temples of different sects were passing by each other in the street. Nobody fessed up to what started it, but a fistfight broke out.

The monks involved were all disrobed and sent home.

I'm sure Buddhism is capable of being perverted by some sort of Elmer Gantry type. There was a great deal of Buddha nature in the Gospels before Paul came along and twisted it all up to make it palatable to the Romans.

However, the occasional skirmish is about it, although there have been violent oppressions of Buddhists in which they have fought back.

[WilliamPitt]

19. Mahayana v. Theravada

Spelling may be shaky.

[TechBear_Seattle]

22. Not really

Both schools admonish lay people to hold to Buddhist doctrines (including non-violence and compassion) because this will accrue merit to to their souls. With enough merit, they will be reincarnated into a life that allows them to renounce the world and seek enlightenment. Obedience and peace create a social environment that facilitates monks in attaining enlightenment; being obedient and peaceful is therefore a very positive thing that helps everyone. Disobedience, violence and war create a social environment that distracts monks from attaining enlightenment; being disobedient to civil authority, being violent or formenting or participating in war is therefore a very negative thing that harms everyone.

The only difference between Theravata and Mahayana is that the first one emphasizes the path of personal enlightenment, the second emphasizes the path of social morality. Otherwise, there are not that many differences between them.

The closest that I know of Buddhism being radicalized was by Ghengis Khan and his successors. They were (ostensibly) Buddhist and used Buddhist teachings to unify the Khanate. Unsurprisingly, they helped spread the Mahayana school, which emphasizes social morality and the value of being obedient and peaceful. Such a thing occuring from the bottom up... the religion itself makes such a thing very difficult. I just do not see how Buddhism could follow the path of Christian, Muslim and Hindu radicals.

[The Magistrate]

23. Yes, Sir, Frequently

In China, Buddhist sects have been a frequent element of revolution, the most noteable of which goes under the general rubric of 'The White Lotus'. The earliest such appearance, to my knowledge, was during the latter period of Mongol domination, after the death of Kublai Khan, when Buddhist sects became the engine of a nationalist reaction: the founder of the Ming Dynasty sprang from this milieu. The later sects were apocalyptic in nature, with followers believing a millennium of salvation was about to commence, once existing earthly authority had been over-thrown. Well into the early twentieth century, rural militia movements, known generally as 'The Red Spears', were a major phenomenon, rooted in Buddhism and led into battle by Buddhist monks, according to eye-witnesses in both the Yangtze valley and in Manchuria.

[mdmc]

38. kick

[bemildred]

41. Indeed Sir, Buddhists are no different than the rest of us. nt

[timtom]

26. Rinzai Zen is a pretty radical approach

but I'm aware of no political agenda included therein.

"Enlightenment? Shit! There's no such thing! And just to show you, I'll walk hand in hand every step of the way with you. There are many sitting on top of that flagpole, but very few have the courage to make that leap upward..."

--Larry, the Zen Master
San Francisco, ca. 1970

[Fleurs du Mal]

43. Physical, abrupt, energetic but not "radical"

As is well known the Rinzai school was close to the samurai. There certainly may be some answering to do there.

[Cleita]

27. From what I understand Buddhists are encouraged to

question everything even the existence of a God. Religions that become dogmatic become extreme and radical because they don't question their basic premises all the time like Buddhists are encouraged to do. They must accept their dogmas with pretty much blind faith. Now I'm not an expert on Buddhaism but am just repeating the words of another Buddhist in an interview. But it might explain why Buddhists don't become extremists like many factions of other mainstream religions do.

[NuttyFluffers]

42. oh no, they became as extremist as all others. quite regularly, too.

Uighur, China, and Tibetan empires are great places to start for the expansionist and militarist views of Buddhism. the great Buddhist wars along the Deccan, Tamil, and Sri Lanka in south asia also attest to fascinating cycles of war pillaging and church donations/indlugences/etc (on the scale that makes europe's christianity pale in comparison; whole provincial regions would be donated to a single moanstery, for example). and then there's the wars of empire in Indochina, Malay, and Indonesia region. oh and the Korea and Japanese dynastic wars come to mind as well.

no, Buddhism just got a 500 year start on war, assassination, destruction, usury, usurpation, and revolution just like any other religion. but, just like any other religion, they also did great good as well. Buddhism just has a poorly understood history in western culture is all.

[GoLeft2004]

32. This will help.

Buddha and his message by C. Jinarajadasa 
A PLAN OF LIFE 

In order to help his listeners to live in such a manner that
they may feel even now something of the wonder to come;
Nirvana that is their goal, Buddha has carefully mapped out
the moral life which must be lived. Like an engineer who
constructs a pathway up a difficult mountain, so Buddha has
constructed a code of morality. First come the Five Precepts,
as they are called. These are:

1. Not to kill. 
2. Not to steal:
3. Not to commit adultery. 
4. Not to lie.
5. Not to take intoxicating liquors or drugs. [Page 22] 

These are not Buddha's commandments, the breaking of which
entails sin. They represent the preliminary ideals of a
virtuous life which a man is to accept wholeheartedly, if he
is to call himself a Buddhist. He does not promise to Buddha
not to break the precepts; he gives the promise to himself.
For the phrase is: "I accept the precept to refrain from
taking life," and so on with the other precepts. Each
man, as he repeats the precepts, puts himself upon his own
honour to do his best not to break them.

http://www.theosophical.ca/BuddhaAndHisMessageCJ.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. In medieval Japan, the monks of Hieizan (a mountain NE of Kyoto)

would periodically go on rampages in town if the government was doing something they didn't like.

Also in medieval Japan, the samurai warriors used a perverted form of Buddhism to justify their cruelty. There's one particularly sickening passage in the Taiheiki, a military epic of the fifteenth century.

One side in a fight between two daimyo has won, and the victors are going about the usual business of slaughtering the loser's entire family so that none of his relatives can take revenge. In the midst of this slaughter, the victors kill one of the women in the family by drowning her. Her last thought is, "I hope my children managed to escape."

The narrator goes on to say, "Because her last thoughts were of worldly things, she went straight to hell."

So it's not the guys who are running around killing innocent people--it's the poor woman who's worried about her children who goes to hell.

In another passage, a general is trapped with his men, holed up in a building. He says, "Hey, I have an idea. You all kill yourselves, and I'll set the building on fire. Then I can escape out the back way, but they'll think I'm dead." The men agree to this readily, and the youngest fighter, a boy of fourteen, is proud as can be that his last act before dying is to help his grandfather commit suicide." The narrator praises the men for their loyalty to their leader and promises them a place in Amida Buddha's paradise.

Can you tell that this is one of my least favorite works of Japanese literature? But it does show how Buddhism can be distorted.

In more modern times, the sect of Buddhism known as Soka Gakkai has been accused of forcibly converting people through brainwashing techniques. One of my Japanese student friends joined Soka Gakkai after I left Japan, and for a while, her letters were Soka Gakkai sermons. I ignored them, and after a few months, she started writing normal letters again.

[hack89]

35. Google "militant buddhist monks"

there are quite a few examples - Viet Nam in the 60's and Burma for example.

[Dogmudgeon]

36. Two more modern examples

First, Adolph Hitler tried to co-opt Tibetan Buddhism. The Reich mounted an official http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_German_expedition_to_Tibet">expedition in 1939 for that purpose. I have read that the Nazis actually persuaded a few monks to come to Germany to support the "Aryan" cause. I do not know how strongly the monks held to the violent side of Nazi "philosophy". That Hitler and several members of his inner circle were dabblers in or obsessed with occultism is now widely known.

Second, there is a political/religious movement in Japan called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soka_Gakkai">Nichiren Shoshu Soka Gakkai. It was derived from, but not the same as, the Buddhist school of Nichiren. (At least, not the "orthodox" Nichiren school.) The group is very nationalistic and allegedly fascistic, but seems to have undergone a great deal of internal reform since the 1970s.

None of this should be taken to imply that Buddhism is an evil or fascistic movement; merely that it, like other religions, is subject to the same excesses.

--p!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

37. Yes, Soka Gakkai is a lay organization considered to be a cult.

Soka Gakkai was formerly called Nicheren Shoshu, and named after a Japanese monk named Nicheren.

People who practice Soka Gakkai chant for new cars, and all the prosperity gospel type stuff.
I have heard from former members that that they are indeed a cult, and want all your money.