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I was beat up, handcuffed and arrested by Miami police after photographing them against their wishes

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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:11 AM
Original message
I was beat up, handcuffed and arrested by Miami police after photographing them against their wishes
The cops slammed me to the pavement even though I offered no resistance, causing a deep abrasion on my right knee.

One cop grabbed me by the back of the head and repeatedly bashed my forehead against the sidewalk, causing abrasions and swelling to the right side of my forehead.

Another cop grabbed my right hand and bent it backwards in a 90 degree angle, causing me to scream out in pain and continued to do so even after the handcuffs were placed on me.

As I verbally protested, one cop threatened me with a taser gun if I did not stop talking.

I was charged with five counts of disobeying a police officer, one count of obstructing justice, one count of obstructing traffic, one count of disorderly conduct and one count of resisting arrest without violence.

I ended up spending 16 hours in the Miami-Dade County Jail, a rat-infested building that is more Abu Ghraib than American Grade.

I plan on suing the Miami Police Department for false arrest, excessive violence, destruction of personal property, including a $400 camera flash and medical expenses incurred as I had to go to urgent care for x-rays. At the doctor's request, I also need to get an MRI to make sure there is no internal bleeding in my skull.

Today, I will contact the Miami ACLU office about this, where I happen to be a card-carrying member.

The incident occurred Tuesday night on Biscayne Blvd and 69th Street, where I was on a journalism assignment about the transition of Biscayne Blvd from seedy motel strip to trendy urban center. I had spent the day at the Anna Nicole Smith Media Circus
and I was now switching gears towards more serious journalism. I had just finished a cell phone conversation with one of my editors about the progress I was making on this story.

After hanging up, I walked over to an area where five cops were questioning a man, threatening him with arrest for reasons that were unknown to me. The cops were standing in a gravel construction area between the road and the sidewalk. I was standing on the gravel as well, but I was about 20 yards from them. The gravel area is part of the expansion construction that has been ongoing on the Blvd, which will eventually convert the street from two lanes to four lanes.

One of the cops told me to keep walking because this was a "private matter".
I said that I will not keep walking because this is a "public street".

Within seconds, the five officer left the man they were questioning alone and came after me. One cop escorted me across the road. As I stood on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road, the cops began surrounding me, which was when I took several more photos.

That was when they slammed me against the pavement, bashed my forehead repeatedly against the sidewalk, pulled my wrist back in an extreme unnatural position and threatened to shoot me with a taser gun.

On the arrest affidavit, the cops lied several times in order to justify their arrest. They accused me of photographing them without identifying myself, which is not true (and not even against the law as far as I know). As soon as one of the officers questioned me about taking photos, I immediately identified myself by name and stated that I was a journalist.

They accused me of stating that I can do whatever the hell I want when I said no such thing. I remained professional throughout the entire incident, even as I tried to remind them that I had a full legal right to photograph them.

And they accused me of standing in the middle of Biscayne Blvd while I was taking photos, obstructing traffic, which is why they had to arrest me. This is not true, as anybody familiar with the street can confirm, I would have been struck by a car within seconds.

In fact, one of the photographs I took as they approached me clearly shows that Biscayne Blvd is behind them.



It is obvious that they arrested me because they did not appreciate me taking their photos. This is a clear violation of my First Amendment rights. I plan on fighting this all the way. Wish me luck.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. GET THIS TO KEITH OLBERMANN. K&R
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Seconded on that! Here's KO's email addy
KOlbermann@msnbc.com

Let it be known what was done to you, RIM!

Am keeping you in my thoughts as you go through all the processes, emotional, physical and legal. :pals:
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
93. Better yet send a copy of this thread to the cop station.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #93
236. great idea
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good. It's important to punish the bad cops.
The best way to do that is make departments pay big bucks for keeping these loose canons on the force.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good luck.
Sounds like a solid case for you, IMO.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Is it a police state yet? Recommended.
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
127. yes, but most americans don't care. that's the real problem. nt
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. Very good luck to you.
Buncha dirty harries.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Give the ACLU all the photos, get eyewitnesses to back you up.
Build your case. Take them to court.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Good Luck
What a story. Sue the thugs!
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. I hope you nail them.
People who defend cops as supposed saints who defend us all always ignore stories like this, where entire groups of cops violate people's civil rights as a matter of routine, and usually get away with it. Every one of those cops should be arrested and thrown in jail, and if that means that we empty that precinct and put them all in jail, then so be it.

They couldn't pull this kind of shit without knowing it would be supported by their higher-ups. This isn't one or two bad cops. This is a disease that infects the entire police department.
x(
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
250. excellent point
and it goes all the way up to the bloody white house
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ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:17 AM
Original message
Good luck!
Keep us posted.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. Holy shit, Raging. I hope you are okay and your lawsuit prevails.
Where did our America go, or have I been living in fantasy land?
It's looking more and more like fascism every day, isn't it.
Thanks for sharing your account, and I hope you keep us posted.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
241. FYI - This IS Amerikan "justice"
This is the way it is, has been and until we change the system always will be.

The cops who attacked you are the guardians of capitalism... That's always been their job and it gets worse every year as the cops become more and more militarized.

Sue THEIR F*CKIN asses off. I hope you're awarded $100,000,000! Until those F*CKS feel the pain, they'll still be pursuing business as usual.

And please folks, don't think this is an aberration performed by some cowboys on the force. This is business as usual where I live -- where the bottles break and the pavement's broken. This is standard operating procedures for the guardians of capitalism, the defenders of the rich.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. Please contact the ACLU. Please.
This interference with civil rights in contravention of the First Amendment is reprehensible.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. Good Luck RIM. This is a violation of your rights.
Check out the Pop Photography archives for the article "The War Against Photographers". It's chilling. A guy was just taking morning shots of a refinery wit6h the sun rising in silhouette, and his camera was confiscated...always under the guise of "fighting terrorism".

Go get 'em. :hi:
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
111. Greg Palast complained about being harassed for taking photos of oil refineries on the Gulf Coast --
the argument against him was that he was showing terrorists where these refineries are located-- or something idiotic like that. Palast said he was aided by powerful friends who made some calls and the dogs were called off -- but it's scary to know that evidence can be contrived to ruin you if authority figures make you a target.

Best of luck to you.... and please keep us updated, although your attorney probably won't want you to talk about this case until it's settled.

Best of luck to you.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #111
301. And a friend on another board had his camera broken
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 12:58 AM by Wednesdays
And threatened with arrest because he was photographing trains:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Oh gracious
I hope you're okay and I hope you'll get justice. That is awful.
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. That is terrible, just terrible. I hope you are safe and will be okay.
You better let Amy Goodman know about this on Democracy Now. They love to cover stories like this and expose the police state. That is if it doesn't interfere with your legal rights. I hope you get a very good lawyer. Were there any witnesses who could come to your aid or would they be threatened too. (Probably). I'll say a little prayer for you. Peace!
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. Be interesting to track down the guy in the black car
behind them. He was checking out what was happening and could testify that you weren't in the road, as he as driving in the road at the time.

Good luck!
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jollyreaper2112 Donating Member (955 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. I think this is so beautiful
Really, it is. Ebony, ivory, oppressing in perfect harmony. It's so nice to see that white cops and black cops can come together in the interest of kicking the fucking snot out of an innocent citizen. I mean, this is what racial progress is all about! Remember when it was just white cops beating people up?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. Good god.. Well, at least there's no doubt about who was there.
What a disgrace these people are.

I'm happy you're safe now. :scared:
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. I am sorry to hear this.
I wish you a speedy recovery. I can't imagine being in that situation. Be safe. Peace, Kim
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agtcovert Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
Sorry you had to endure this. Keep fighting the good fight.
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. Get the bastards! A little media attention wouldn't hurt, either.




Best of luck to you, and please keep us updated. This should be a very interesting case.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. AFTER you talk to a lawyer:
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:25 AM by sfexpat2000
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. Send this to Olbermann and I wish you luck with your lawsuit
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
22. Glad you're alive to report this
Sue them.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. No kidding. The trauma of being beat up by armed people
is bad enough, though.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
92. It's shocking
but increasingly less surprising.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #92
211. Poor people have always gone through this kind of abuse.
That it's spreading now to the middle class is predictable and a real cause for concern. :(
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. With today's penchant for the cops using video evidence to protect themselves
(especially in even just a minor traffic violation), I wouldn't be surprised if the surveillance video which would capture this "disappears" ...

Like the tape which would have put McKinney away for good when "she assaulted" a security person ... strangely in the very area which was NOT covered by security cameras ...
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. It's funny how often evidence disappears when
it would implicate cops.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
84. Not all departments have cameras in their cars
that is truly a misconception, and I would not be too shocked if Miami Dale doesn't
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. First contact the ACLU, then the FBI for civil rights violations.
Keep several copies of your photos. Also contact the District Attorneys office to file criminal charges, and the cops Internal Affairs unit.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
253. and don't keep
'em all in one place. you have one here on DU, i'd love to view the whole roll

i mean you can skip the anna nicole smith ones.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. wishing you good luck and good lawyers

politics in Miami is vicious
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PLF Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
28. chickenshit assholes, everyone of them.
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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
29. Nail their asses.
I hope to heaven that you prevail and they are majorly chastised. This cannot continue to happen. I am sorry you were injured but I am proud that you stood firm against their intimidation.

Keep us up to speed. You are fighting for all of us. Many thanks.

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verse18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. Glad to hear you're OK.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:39 AM by verse18
Thugs like these need to be put UNDER the jail.

ETA: The fact that they left the other guy alone to harass you is very telling.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:36 AM
Original message
OMG! This is HUGE! K&R n/t
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
32. What does "disobeying a police officer" entail, though?
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:37 AM by WinkyDink
"When a private, law abiding citizen encounters police, the amount of intrusion a Law Enforcement Officer is allowed to demand is limited. Some areas have laws against "disobeying a police officer" or "obstructing an officer from their duties", but the bounds of what officers can reasonably require someone not suspected of any other criminal activity in a peaceful situation have not been clearly drawn by the courts."
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:cTKu0EBmm_0J:www.er...

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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
33. if you enhance that photo...
...you could probably get the license plate of that black car.

I'm sure you've thought of that already.

Be sure to let the police department know that you've posted the photo and the narrative to an activist message board with 100,000 members who stand ready to pass the information to their media contacts and extensive lists of email contacts nationwide.
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demrabble Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
34. SUE EEEE!
Those pigs look like the swine they are.

And you should SUE the City of Miami, Miami/Dade County, the Police Department, and each cop individually.

It just is one more sign of how * (and, in Florida, his brother, Jeb) have turned this once proud democracy of ours into a fucking Police State!

Good Luck on obtaining J.U.S.T.I.C.E.
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
35. The things they charged you with
are really just smokescreens, because your real offense apparently was to exercise your Constitutional rights. Those with power in the country today are doing everything they possess to eliminate those rights. This goes from low-level thugs like the police officers who beat you up and arrested you on bullshit charges, to the president himself, whose opinion of the Constitution is that it's "just a god-dammed piece of paper". I wish you luck, and hope you sue the pants off them.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
36. If Bush is looking for people who "hate us for our freedoms," this thread should give him a clue.
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
37. K/R bigtime. Good Luck and go get 'em.
What first amendment?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. Have you contacted People Magazine? What did they say?
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:57 AM by Junkdrawer
:shrug:
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. I hope we still have the right to take photos in public.
I hope your okay and something is done about this.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
40. The scum of the earth. Police run amok.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
41. only four of them? I think your out of court settlement will be huge.
I dare say police forces are getting used to paying out over cases like this.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #41
309. Five
There is one hidden behind the cop on the left. And on the extreme left, you can see the right arm of the Sgt who was leading the assault.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #309
310. take it easy, don't get too wound up - it's bad for the blood pressure
and think of the payout as well ;)

Imagine you are basking in the sunshine in the Bahamas as a tax exile and those guys are pounding the beat in stifling heat.

peace
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
42. They need to be gone from the police force. Attacking a journalist?
Brainless. n/t
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
43. Protect and serve!
Themselves.

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
44. Why in gawd's name do they need five officers to question one man?
Belly-boy on the far right of the photo looks like he's already spoiling for a fight. What's he reaching for?

Go for it, Raging. These officers were waaaay out of control.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. Wow talk about brown shirted thugs!
Hope you are doing better physically. What a nightmare.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
46. Welcome to fascist Amurikkka: good luck in your fight
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
48. K & R
Good luck! :hi:
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
49. K&R
Hope you nail their asses to the wall.

One of these days, some brownshirts are going to go too far and end up shot.
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
50. If you haven't heard
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 11:52 AM by vpilot
of this forum, have a look and by all means post you info, don't know if it will help but it's worth trying! http://www.copwatch.com / BTW best of luck in righting this wrong!
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
51. Look at those cocky assholes!


You can see they're just itching for a fight. "Keeping the peace" isn't in the officer's lexicon these days.

Today's cop mission: inflict pain on and deny the Constitutionally protected rights of as many Americans as you can! Cuz we badass mofo's!!!!!!

Sorry you went through this. Good luck with your lawsuit.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
52. In general, I believe everything I am told by complete strangers on the Internets.


But for some reason, I'm not completely buying it today.

Why am I guessing there is more to this story than what you describe?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
238. I know Raging In Miami and I have read his posts for years.
There is no reason to believe he is not being accurate.

Yeah. Miami police. They clearly should have the advantage on trust and veracity. :eyes:

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sodenoue Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #238
304. pigs count on people believing them over you
never trust scummy low paid cops. Not to discredit any good cops there may be, they are just few and far between.

I hope this guy gets those 5 fired. A-Holes.
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
53. K&R
If this does indeed go to court, please let us know. I for one will give up a weekend fun trip with the kids to pitch in on your legal fund. Not that you should need it. This is an open and shut case as far as I can see.

I wish you good luck, and hope you are feeling well.

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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. No offense, but why exactly were you interfering in a situation with which
you had no familiarity?

It sounds like the police response was over the top, but you had no business getting involved in their work.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Say what???? There are now "Free View Zones" where citizens...
can watch what police are doing on public streets?

You know, like "Free Speech Zones"...
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. The original problem was him interfering with a police matter --
AFTER that the other charges came about.

If he had left them the hell alone, none of this would have happened.

I'm not saying the violence was necessary or called for, but who the fuck walks up into a situation like this that has literally nothing to do with them?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Ah... a reporter????
:shrug:
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. "but who the fuck walks up into a situation like this that has literally nothing to do with them?"
A journalist, which is what the OP is.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Even if he wasnt' a journalist.
In public we all have a right to keep an eye on our police. Even if he wasn't a journalist the police have no right to dictate where someone can be or what someone can do unless there is a valid public saftey reason for their order. boosting their own egos and insulating themselves from monitoring are not valid public safety reasons.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Exactly
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 12:26 PM by RagingInMiami
A journalist does not have any more right than a non-journalist when it comes to these matters.

The law states that all citizens have the right to photograph police on a public road as long as they are not interfering. This is a First Amendment right.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. Amen to that
:hi:
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
82. Cheers to that! Or is the rule now that only journalists connected to the event in some
non-professional manner can report on it?
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. That is crazy.
You're saying that if we ignore everything police do, don't watch them, don't report on them, don't ever put ourselves in any position where were could hold the police accountable for anything then there wouldn't be a problem.

Yes, let's mindlessly obey police and never monitor them at all. That will prevent police brutality. :eyes:

Wow.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. There is no law against photographing police while they are in the line of duty
And I was not interfering. I was more than 20 yards away.

Do you believe the guy who videotaped the Rodney King beating was "interfering with a police matter"?
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RandiFan1290 Donating Member (721 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. Exactly
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 12:40 PM by RandiFan1290
The biggest threat to these thugs is a camera. That is the only way they will ever be caught. Even then they stick together and deny the video evidence.

Anyone doing police surveillance should have at least two camera persons. One to film the thugs and one to film the other camera person when the thugs attack them.

If there was no video of Rodney King no one would have believed him over those pig's bullshit story.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #68
244. I'm sure the cops who were
beating up on Rodney King thought the guy videotaping was "interfering with a police matter." They'd probably say (and probably did say), "if it hadn't been for that guy everything would have been fine."

Good luck Raging. Keep up he pressure!
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #60
87. He was NOT interfering, he was merely standing nearby.
And that is NOT illegal. He's a photojournalist and was doing his job in a public place.

When you're a journalist, you walk up on lots and LOTS of situations that "have nothing to do" with you.

Jesus Christ. No wonder this country is becoming more Orwellian every day.
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #87
203. Agreed.
Now these guys are good cops.

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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-25-07 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #87
326. kcik
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #60
90. 'splin this one to me
how is taking a photograph 20 yards from the scene inferfeting with emergency workers?

Now ther are ways to interfere with the work of emergency workers, but having been one at one time, a photograph is not one of them. (unless of course, you do not want any photographic evidence of things that you were doing that are not kosher)

Jeebus H Chirst what is this about cops are always right and civies are always wrong?

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #60
107. Uhm, a reporter, duh, another freelancer reporting in...
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:10 PM by Solon
Of course, I wasn't a photographer, but my notepad was always with me, and I scrounged up my own stories for a local news magazine. But, I've done plenty of stuff related to photography or writing that involved walking up to a "situation" that had nothing to do with me. I'm also working on a book for the history of University City, its an update of a book by my Grandmother, she worked for the city from the 1960s to the 1990s, she penned the Integration legislation in the city. The original book was her own, written in the 1960s, but the city backed her on it, and at this moment, I've been working on the graphic design and photography. I've walked up and down Delmar Loop, even took photographs of the U-City cops, unlike Miami PD, they were photogenic, and SMILED for the camera.

At the time they didn't know what I was working on, but, to their credit, they didn't beat the crap out of me for taking some pictures. By the way, RaginginMiami, I hope you sue the crap out of them, and able to retire, this abuse is inexcusable.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #60
179. How was this "interfering"? Seriously? How?
Is taking pictures for a ways away "interfering"? Is noticing that something is happening "interfering"?

Are we supposed to look the other way whenever police appear, not notice them? Are we supposed to let police do whatever they want? I am amazed and appalled at what you write. You do realize that police are public servants, and we are the public, don't you? Who the fuck stops to watch police do something? Who the fuck should not?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #179
201. It's like Frank in Blue Velvet. "Don't look at me!" smack! n/t
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #60
217. You Keep Using That Word, "Interfering." I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means
Interfering would mean he was doing something that prevented police from doing their lawful job.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #217
323. Inconceivable!
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
251. Read the constitution and remind yourself, or try to -
that until people like you take over, it's still a free country, and a public thoroughfare is just that - public. At 20+ yards away, "interfering" isn't even in the equation.

Most cops are okay. These guys weren't. Get over it.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #60
257. A real journalist? n/t
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #60
265. I guess you are for a police state
Where people are thrown into jail for looking the wrong way.

This is the second time I've read a completely outrageous position from you.

What is up with that?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #60
312. "interfering"?
:wtf:
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digitalterrain Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
322. What exactly is a police matter?
A crime scene I can understand, but even then, journalists are allowed to film them from whatever perimeter is set up. AFAIK, a "police matter" is hoey for "we don't want you photographing us". The first amendment is the first amendment. I read no such terms in that amendment, in fact, quite the opposite. He was on public land. If they lie in concert well enough, they will prevail. The real shame in all this is there is an arm with three stripes to the left of the shot - when supervisors enter into this type of basic rights violation, that's where the REAL crime occurs.

Wilk
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Taking photographs in public is interfering?
You really go over the top defending cops, don't you? It's always the victim's fault somehow.
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snacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #58
129. A couple of years ago...
my teenage daughter had just gotten a digital camera and was taking pictures in the parking lot of a mall. She was innocently snapping photos of a movie theater sign across the lot (fascinated with the ability to take nighttime photos with her new camera) and a mall security guard drove up and told her to stop because you can't take pictures of buildings like that. Of course, she got scared and obliged.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. How is 20 yds. away "interfering" or "getting involved"?
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soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. Watching what's going on on a public street is interfering?
Sounds to me like they 'involved' RagininMiami rather than the other way around.

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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
81. I have to disagree. A public space is a public space. If the city can videotape
the citizenry, the citizenry can videotape the city.
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ArbustoBuster Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #54
105. "Interfering in a situation with which you had no familiarity"?
Every American has a right and responsiblility to "get involved with the work" of the police. They are not our overlords.

There is a difference between taking photographs of the police from across the street and, say, pulling a cop off of a person he or she is arresting. The first of these things is enshrined in our Constitution. The second of these things is interfering. Kindly learn the difference before you go accusing a journalist of improper behavior again.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #105
270. That is a cool picture!!!
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #270
286. Isn't it!
Bush could have a thousand photos taken with that kid and none would turn out to be a "cool picture". There's a sincerity shown there that bush simply doesn't possess.

He's treating that kid, not like a child, but as a little man.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
128. Apologists for such BS never cease to amaze me..
I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere, I thought I was on a progressive board..
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. She imediately went and posted another thread about
a police officer who died in the line of duty, as if that justifies police brutality and violations of civil rights.

I wonder if every time they face a dangerous situation they get issued coupons good for 1 free civil rights violation.
:shrug:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #133
135. No they don't
officers, at least in my town, are taught that you treat everybody as if they were the Mayor, and watch your back just in case they are about to stab you

For the record I used to teach that to my EMTs as well, (since we do get assaulted from time to time, or worst)

But the key word is, treat all as if they were the Mayor, aka full of respect
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
240. Oh, brother. No, citizens. Do NOT keep an eye on what your public servents are up to...
You have no business doing that. :sarcasm:

Bull... meet shit.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
246. Screw that!!! Screw that!!! Screw that!!!
The god damn cops have no special rights!

They're just the guardians of the capitalist overclass...

F*CK 'EM. And F*ck the horse they rode in on.

These cops should be in JAIL not on the street...

You can suck cops ass all you want, NEVER WILL I!!!!
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
264. You are so in the wrong here
What the heck are you thinking?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
55. What publication are you a journalist for?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. The link on the OP says he was on assignment for People's Mag. n/t
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. This assignment wasn't for People Magazine
I had spent the day on assignment for People Magazine on the Anna Nicole Smith story, but this was in the evening and I was on assignment for a local website called www.category305.com .

However, I did tell one of the senior writers at People Magazine about the arrest.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
214. oh man, I had to respond again,
I hope people magazine does a story on it, it would awesome for them to expose cop brutality nationally like that. I would think the cops will make the worst person in the world on countdown...

again, as I said in my previous comment, of course you're telling the truth, 'theboss', and others amaze me, have they not heard of people getting beaten for trying to keep an eye on emergency workers before? or the video of the peace marchers getting shot with pellets and sprayed with gas in Seattle and Miami? amazing...

:hug:
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. I am a freelancer
I work for various publications. I had spent the day working for People Magazine on the Anna Nicole Smith story, but this was for a local website I write for called www.category305.com

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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #61
307. Wow! Thanks for posting here
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 02:41 AM by Duppers
You've an interesting job.

Raging, glad to see you took my advice about posting in GD....this was much too important for just the photography group.

There's a quote from the Departed about real Cops and Wannabe cops:

""There are cops and there are people who wanna appear to be cops. They want to carry the gun and flash the badge and act like they're on TV. Some of them just wanna shove a nigga's head through a plate glass window."

Good movie, good quote. I think you've been accosted by the later.

Please keep us posted, Raging.




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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #307
311. I've covered the police beat for years when I worked for daily newspapers in the Southwest
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 07:14 AM by RagingInMiami
I was a cop reporter at the Arizona Republic, the San Bernardino Sun and I covered the Border Patrol in southern New Mexico for the Las Cruces Sun-News.

Over the years, I've met many good cops. Honest cops who meant well. Cops who were just like me as they were only trying to make an honest living.

But I've also met a few bad cops. Several times over the years I've written about dishonest, abusive and corrupt cops who abused their authority.

And one thing I've learned over the years is that cops do not like being photographed. Especially the ones who have not been on the force for many years. The older ones seem not to mind as they are probably aware of the public's right to photograph them.

And many times over the years, I've been threatened with arrest for taking photos of cops. I've been "accidentally" shoved to the side during police scuffles. I've been yelled at, bullied and insulted in some situations.

But I've never, ever been assaulted like I was Tuesday night.

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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #55
108. What does that have to do with anything?
What a ridiculous question.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. I live in the area and want to read/see some of his work
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #55
137. What badges are you looking for, Freddie?
A citizen was beat up arrested in violation of the First Amendment and you want to know what his credentials are?

:wtf:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #137
156. I am curious about any local publications
There are a lot of news magazines and blogs popping up here in South Florida.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #156
173. I see. n/t
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
62. Needs to be seen by everyone
Jesus... x(
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
63. good luck and fight the good fight
Fuck the cops--what they did to you was inexcusable.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
72. David Caruso they ain't. Sue the bastards. NT
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
74. Two things from the photo
You are right, the road is behind them

two skippy to the far left is a Sergeant.

Now you DO know people in the PD right?

The first step you may want to take is to get your paper to provide a lawyer, if they can't, contact the ACLU

The second is to contact the ombudsman and file a civilian complaint

Third, just from what you wrote, aka this is a private matter, this is smelly... and these guys may need a visit from internal affairs, as is, from your description the ACLU will love to get involved, as well as Reporters without frontiers, oh they love those ones...

Oh and good luck, but once you get all these folks involved, I have the sneaky suspicion that at the very least they will drop the charges, but if anything is to happen, well internal affairs needs to be involved and it does read like a case for false detention.

And yes I am taking you at your word... as with any other story out there in this case there are six tales to this story, seven if I take into account the original man they were talking to... and if you can find out who he is, and what kind of a rap sheet he has.


Damn this is why all departments should have a civil review commission that WORKS!
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. "Damn this is why all departments should have a civil review commission that WORKS!"
Have you ever seen one that actually has any power or influence? It seems like CRBs are designed to be neutered.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. Yes San Diego California
and IT IS the exception to the rule

It also was given real teeth after more than just some ahem, embarrassment for the department

In fact, they have recommended training changes from time to time that the academy adopts, as well as field officers.

They have teeth

Now La Mesa PD, a neighbor of SDPD, they are a nightmare and they lack one that works... problem is you have to form them city by city, and municipaltiy by municipality, and most, as you said, are meant not to have real teeth, just plenty of bark
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-25-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #83
328. I can vouch for that... a co-worker of mine is on the review board
He's a retired fibbie, now runs my employer's corporate security. The guy is very smart, knows law enforcement inside and out and his politics are liberal & progressive. I get the impression that he is representative of the kind of people who sit on the board.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #74
88. Excellent advice. n/t
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
76. Rip 'em a new one, friend.
and keep us posted. I'd love to see some of these assholes (dare I hope all?) lose their jobs (dare I hope do time?).
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. If the proper lawyers get involved
with internal affairs, not only should they loose jobs, but should be facing some time in the clink

And at least where I live, judges throw the book at dirty cops.

But I am drawing that conclusion only from what the OP said, that is why we need a bunch of folks involved...
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NinetySix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
78. This reminds me of my favorite Stoic philosopher, Epictetus
In his Enchiridion, he says:

35. When you do anything from a clear judgment that it ought to be done, never shun the being seen to do it, even though the world should make a wrong supposition about it; for, if you don't act right, shun the action itself; but, if you do, why are you afraid of those who censure you wrongly?

In other words, if you're not doing anything wrong, then why are you worried that someone might see? Especially when you're discharging your duty to serve, protect, and defend the public....
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
80. Another story for those of you who don't believe we're becomming a police state.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 12:56 PM by LibInTexas
And with the suspension of Posse Comitatus, we'll soon have the military busting photographers (and others) heads.

I carry a copy of this at all times in my video camera bag:

The Photographers Right



I know you can't read it here, but go to:

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

You can download your own copy.

Raging...I hope you sue and win MILLIONS!

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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #80
110. That's a great link. Thank you.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
85.  I wish you the best...
But i think youre fight would be a bit more winnable in counties not named Miami Dade or Broward ;)
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
86. Nail the bastards......There is a nasty Chief of Police there, right?
Good luck with everything.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
89. oh yeah...we're living in a free country, alright...frigging police state. eom
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
91. I know the street where you were, I agree anyone standing in the middle taking pics woul be DEAD
in 5 seconds...And you can take pictures of the police officer's mother ass getting naked in public and it is still not a crime. Shop for a very good attorney, don't give the case to the first one you speak to.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
94. This is the same Police Department..
...that has been caught robbing and murdering drug dealers (Miami River Cops), stomping suspects to death(Leonardo Mercado), and planting guns on people they shoot. Roughing you up is all in a day's work.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
95. Are you a member of any photographer's or journalist's associations?
If so, see if they also have legal help.

These guys went way overboard. Goodluck.

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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
96. My thoughts.
Remembering that we have only heard one side of this story yours

From what you have said, you did indeed interfere with them. Look, everybody will have their day in court on this but from what you said, your reply to them originally is that you were on a public street. In other words, you put them on the defensive.

Every cop has a right to be safe. Every cop has a right to go home at the end of their shift. When they work the street, they practice certain safety procedures that you as a citizen do not understand. When working a call, they make themselves a safety zone. By stopping 60 feet from them and photographing them, you violated what they felt was their safety zone.

Once they asked you to leave, that is what you should have done. Youre a photographer, you most likely had a long lens that you could have used to shoot from across the street instead of approaching them within 60 feet. And you could have obeyed their wishes and left, continuing to shoot from a much further distance.

But it was at that point, that you told them you would defy their orders for you to leave, that you distracted them from their work. It is because of that distraction that you were charged with interfering. And I believe, rightfully so. Had you waited until the situation was over and then approached an officer to find out what was going on, you wouldnt have been interfering. But distracting them while they are in the process of handling a situation can be construed as interfering.

And for those that believe that because a cop is a public worker and they (the citizen) has a right to question them or stand watch while they are involved in a situation, think again. Police matters are private.

Think of it like this. If I am having some kind of a problem and I call the police, I expect privacy. I dont expect 10 people to be able to listen in to my conversation with the police just because they think they have the right to by the Constitution. So while I am talking to the police about my daughters rape, or my wifes problems or anything else, you better believe Id side with the cop who told somebody to leave the area.

My personal problems, albeit as a victim or a criminal, are not meant to be public domain. Why should you, just because you are a photojournalist, be allowed to overhear my private conversations with the police? And how would or should a cop try and determine what you can and cannot here? Therefore you were asked to leave, asked to go across the street. When you disobey that lawful order, expect to be charged.

And I think it was comedian Chris Rock who said it best: when the police tell you to do something in a street situation, you do it. You dont argue. If you want to take it up with them later, you can. But in the heat of a situation, you obey them no matter what you believe is right. If you want to stand on your Constitutional rights - this is a public street - I aint going nowhere beliefs, then you can only blame yourself for escalating the situation to the point of multiple charges.

Look, I am a photographer myself. I photograph a lot of police action. If they order me off, I leave. I know better than to antagonize them when they are handling a situation even though I know my rights as a photographer.

I dont have enough fingers to count the number of times I have been questioned while taking photographs. Ive been bent over a car, searched, had my car searched, had media seized, etc. on numerous times. I hate it. And I agree it is unwarranted. But I am smart enough to know when that is happening and I shut my mouth because they are in charge of the program. I answer their questions, I dont cop an attitude, and we all get along just fine.

If it is really bad, such as being handcuffed, searched, etc. I later on file a complaint with the department. They had no grounds to arrest me since I went along with the program and didnt argue with them while they were subjecting me to their interrogation and searches. On one occasion the chief of police was so mad that his officers had put me through this, he fired the officers involved.

I hate what has happened since the terra terra terra 9/11 crap. You cant pull out a camera anywhere without being questioned by police or citizens. I regularly photograph on the streets and am now often questioned by people; why are you taking my photograph? Dumb shits dont even think that 90% of their public day they are being video taped by some government or commercial enterprise. Yet, heres a guy with a camera and they demand to know why you are taking pictures.

And all this silly you cant photograph here stuff that the various security guards come up with at power plants and refineries. The only thing they can regulate is when they find you ON the property, not merely in the vicinity. Ive had them try and take my film, too. For those people, I do tell them to go pound sand.

There are rules about photography. If it is posted on the premises no photography you do not have the right to take a photo. Many commercial places have this, though often times in less than noticeable locations. But in the public domain you can photograph anything you want. Publishing those photographs is something different altogether.

There are attorneys who specialize in photographers rights. I can try and locate again some of their publications. But I really believe you went well beyond the rights of a photographer. You interfered and then with your responses, you resisted.

Your actions remind me of the person who gets pulled over for speeding and the first thing out of your mouth is a snotty I wasnt speeding or whats your problem, cop. Youve certainly lost any chance you had of getting off with nothing but a warning.

In a nutshell, we photographers have a right to capture images. We do not have a right to get in the way, interfere with police action or disobey a direct order by the police.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Wrong. We are not required to relinquish our civil rights on demand. n/t
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. You Should Move To China.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:09 PM by jayfish
You know your rights as a photographer,(which are really the rights of any person) yet you quickly slink away at the first challenge. You're part of the problem.

Jay

ON EDIT: You have had media seized and done nothing about it? maybe China is a little too lenient for you. Try North Korea.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #96
103. WOW!
It's frightening how eager some people are to submit to a police state.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #103
282. Incredible posts, huh
A functioning police state needs no police.
-- William S. Burroughs
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. 20 yards is NOT inside most police
security perimeters... unless you are talking of fire situations involving HAZMAT or major fires. (Or a hostage situation)

Neither of those qualifies with what was described.

I come from a police family and as a former EMS worker the only time I got aggressive with a photographer was ... when the patient asked not to be photographed and the photographer stuck his lens INSIDE my rig. (And this was SOUTH of the border by the way)

Now if you know a rig, that is less than five feet, hell in fact less than three feet.

Did I mention this photographer was a paparazzi? And the patient was a VIP...

So I'd say you are way, WAAAYYY out of line here.

And as others have said, part of the problem.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #106
114. 20 yards...exactly... 60 feet away on a busy street and he could hear their conversation?
Either he wasn't 60 feet away, as he claims, or he's got bionic ears.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #114
119. He had those extendo ears that Inspector Gadget has...
:)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #119
124. God thanks for the laugh
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #119
145. Well, see, that explains it!!
Well shoot, he should have included that in the OP, then I wouldn't have wondered about it!!

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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #114
123. No, he didn't claim to hear any of their conversation with the man or each other.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:34 PM by piedmont
At least while photgraphing them, anyway.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #123
143. Um...yeah....he did actually.
See post #139
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #143
168. Like I said, happened before he was photgraphing
And the poster says they were shouting. That's all consistent with him being 60 feet away while photographing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #143
181. No, he didn't. See #139.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #114
126. Where did the poster claim to hear that, AzBlue?
Are you very sure he said that or are you just inclined to attack him?
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #126
139. Right here:
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:53 PM by AZBlue
After hanging up, I walked over to an area where five cops were questioning a man, threatening him with arrest for reasons that were unknown to me. (underline added for clarification to the slow readers among us)

Or is he psychic? He didn't put that in his OP.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #139
142. "for reasons that were unknown to me"
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:59 PM by sfexpat2000
HEARING is not the only way you could deduce the situation, is it? And HEARING would depend upon environmental noise. Were you there?

And if you think my reading is slow, you need to take that up with Berkeley and with PBK.

:)

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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #142
147. Nice dance move!
The "Duck and Reflect" - When one argument is shown to be illogical and false, return with an equally illogical one! Then take two steps to the right and turn counterclockwise! Good times.

Buh bye now. I only carry on logical conversations.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #147
153. Bullshit. You made the false assertion that the OP claimed to hear
the conversation when he did no such thing.

You are the one sidestepping here.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #139
149. The one cop was yelling at the top of his lungs
He was threatening him with arrest, something along the lines of "I can take you to jail right now!"

For a "private matter", they sure as hell were not discrete in their conversation.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #149
155. Just ignore it, C. Take care of yourself today.
I mean it. I've been in a similar situation. It bites you in the @ss before you know what happened.

Destress in any way you can.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #149
166. Ah, then that is different.
It wasn't in the OP and therefore I wondered. Thanks for the clarification!

Hope you're doing better and there's no internal damage!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #166
171. It's not "different" than the OP. It's different from your conclusions
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 03:32 PM by sfexpat2000
after reading the OP.

Maybe we do need a "reading rainbow" on DU.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #139
150. No, he has a pair of eyes...
He said he didn't know the CONTENT of the conversation, but, if I SAW a cop talking to someone, I would assume questions were part of the conversation. If I saw that same cop reach for his handcuffs, I would assume the guy he's talking to is under arrest.

You don't have to be psychic, just have a pair of eyes and a brain, apparently you lack at least one of these, let me think about which one.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #150
157. Where did he mention handcuffs?
BTW...there's no need to be rude. You've sunk to a low level I have no desire to sink to. I'll simply say that I refrained from pointing out your obvious failings and weaknesses earlier and indeed, I'll just stop at how how obvious they are. If you want a rude conversation, you'll have to look elsewhere, I'll not engage in such a low form of communication.

Good day.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #157
161. Why stop now? n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #161
169. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #169
175. I don't even remember the last time I had pleasure.
But, DU has good rules. They work.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #139
152. He didn't say he heard it.
Maybe he sensed it from a combination of things that he saw and or heard. Maybe the cops were being boisterous; they're cops! I don't think they would be soft spoken.

If you've seen it enough you know when cops are "questioning a man, threatening him with arrest".
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #139
180. MAYBE THEY WERE TALKING REALLY LOUD
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #114
136. Police beating people's heads against the sidewalk IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Having to go to an emergency room after an encounter with the police IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

So what if he wasn't really 60 feet away like he says? Even if it were only 6 feet and the police needed him back for legitimate reasons, their brutal behavior IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. Where did I say it was?
I couldn't agree more - unnecessary police brutality is unacceptable.

(now that I did say...if you'd bothered to read my post thoroughly you would have seen that...)
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #140
281. no. you were just ignoring the important point of his post
in favor of calling him a liar.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #114
138. You know what I find atrocious, you actually think he is lying...
even WITH photographic evidence!

Look at where the police car is in that photo, and the busy street in front of it, who crossed the fucking street here, not the OP, that's for sure.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. You need to look up the word "evidence"
That's photographic evidence of 5 cops standing in the street, looking towards the camera. And that's all it's evidence of.

I'm not stating the whole story is a lie. I was pointing out that the poster must have been closer than he claims and/or thought. That's all.

Don't get your panties in a bunch for nothing. And don't put words in my mouth any more.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #141
146. Let's see, in the photograph, I see the police vehicle accross the street...
I also see a two lane street, going both ways, with at least two cars on it. The police vehicle is obvious, with the horizontal strip on it. The 4 police officers in the photo look like they are beginning to surround the OP, who appears, himself, to have not moved in the meantime. In relation to the police officers, it looks like the OP is on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street than the OP, his exact estimates of distance could be off, but by no more than maybe ten feet. And even then, it doesn't matter, he was across a busy street, opposite the cops, and the photo seems to support his story.

If he lied, and he was closer, he would have been hit by a car, at the very least, or, if on the OTHER side of the street, he would have had to run away from the cops before the photo was taken, a risky proposition, in addition to actually having time to turn and take a pretty clear picture, with almost no motion blur due to, let's say, backing away. Not to mention that the police in the photo wouldn't appear to be walking calmly towards him, it looks like, in the photo, they didn't view him as much of a threat.

If the police were truly concerned about their privacy or safety, they would have made an extended perimeter and closed off the street, they didn't do that, obviously, so they had no excuse for what they did to the OP.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #146
154. True, there's a police vehicle across the road.
However, you could easily make the following story from that picture:

The vehicle you see across the road stopped due to a three-car accident (you can't see it, but it's just to the left of the photo frame). The officers from that vehicle are attending to the cars in the accident and the one driver that's pinned in one of the cars. There's an injured person standing behind the photographer, along with some of the passengers in the cars and some witnesses. The police you see in the photo (who came from other police cars, parked outside the view of the photo) are coming back from setting up some road blocks to direct traffic around the accident and are headed toward the photographer to help the injured party standing behind them until the ambulance gets there. They also plan to talk to some of the witnesses.

See, any photo can "prove" any number of stories associated with it. That's all I'm saying.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #154
158. But you aren't taking all the facts into account, which is a basic error
in logic.

And the main thing you are eliding is that the OP is a respected member of DU who has a track record of scrupulous honesty.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #154
176. To the left you say?
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 03:38 PM by Solon
If that's true, then that Jeep wouldn't be moving as fast as its moving, and the street would have been blocked by a roadblock, or, more likely, one or two of the cops would have been directing traffic around the accident zone, closing off at least one land of the road. The cops in the photograph would have had orange vests on, to increase visibility from drivers, they usually have those in the trunk of the police car for that very reason. In addition to this, its at night, and the cop car didn't have its lights on, the lights on it would have at least been flashing, to call attention to drivers on both sides of the road of a car accident.

In addition to this, the street in question doesn't appear to have a wide shoulder, so, the cars in the accident would have still been on the road itself.

I don't know if you have much experience in this, but I've BEEN in a 3(actually, technically 4), car accident, a van, travelling at 30 MPH, slammed into the car behind me, we were stopped at a stoplight, the car behind me was pushed into me, hitting my car so hard, my tailbone hit the frame of my seat, and I was pushed into the car ahead of me, he left the scene after seeing there was no damage to his car. Anyways, I suffered, myself, an inflamed sternum and chest wall, causing pressure on my lungs and heart, in addition to neck strain, on the front of my neck, that hurt. Injuries would have been worse if I wasn't wearing a seatbelt, but, damned that hurt like hell. I also suffered from a mild concussion, or, as the doctor put it, "shaken baby syndrome", believe me, losing time, up to ten minutes at a time, by blacking out, is disconcerting, to say the least. Remember, I was jerked backwards from the first impact, then forward when my car hit the car ahead of me.

Now, within a few minutes, we had over 3 cop cars on the scene, the street was a busy four lane street, and the cops immediately put on orange vests and started directing traffic, and this was in the middle of the day. A few minutes after that, EMS showed up, and the old lady driving the van, and the two ladies in the car behind me were taken away. At the time of the accident, my tailbone was the only thing that hurt, and after it was determined that it wasn't broken, I waved off getting any medical help. That was my mistake, the next morning, I woke up, not being able to move, my chest and neck were hurting like hell. I got a ride to the hospital, and after a bunch of X-Rays and stuff, they determined the inflamed chest wall, neck strain, etc. Then, a few days later, I started "losing time" as I put it, it freaked me, and my roommates, out. It was fucked up, I would "space out", literally freeze like a statue for up to 10 minutes at a time.

I thought driving was too dangerous, so I took a ride to my doctor to determine what was wrong. My coordination was practically gone, and he said I had a concussion, he told me it would take a month or so to recover from it.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #176
188. You missed AZBlue's point
Read the bottom of his message: "See, any photo can "prove" any number of stories associated with it. That's all I'm saying."

In other words, he was trying to make a point that anybody can make up any story about what a photo represents. Look at the number of people believing the original OP wasn't even on the same side of the street as the cops "because the photo porves it"... yet the OP specifically explained he was orignally on the same side of the street, within the same gravel area of a construction zone as the cops were before they asked him to cross the stree and leave.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #188
190. Yes, there are any number of narratives one can concoct
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 03:55 PM by sfexpat2000
should one decide to deviate from the facts as they present themselves. :eyes:
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #190
195. please define the facts for me
I saw no facts. I see a photograph. I read somebodies account. What facts are there that anyone is ignoring? I'll listen to your argument.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #195
199. You'll listen to my argument? Really.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 04:11 PM by sfexpat2000
You are relatively new here. Raging isn't. He is a valued member of this community that was just brutalized by thugs disgracing cop uniforms . I won't add insult to what he just went through by "arguing" anything.

If you want to dispute the facts of this OP, I suggest to you that this isn't the thread to do it in, nor the day perhaps. I apologize if I have been with curt you but the OP isn't anonymous to me and he has been a generous contributor to DU. I am concerned for my friend.

/ack
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #199
204. all fine and dandy
but thanks for telling me that anyone with less than 1000 posts here have no vaild opinions. How does it feel to be a hypocrite? I guess you are the only person who is allowed to cherry pick? I so hope you don't criticize our lovely administration for cherry picking... or twisitng facts... or plain lying.... that would be so hypocritical.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #204
206. I never said your opinions were invalid and I'd never say such a thing.
I really don't know what that leaves you with except just plain innuendo. :shrug:
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #206
220. I'll quote you
"You are relatively new here. Raging isn't. He is a valued member of this community..."

So therefore, what you said was that he's a valid member of this community and I am not. Doesn't matter that I've actually been here for years. I'm not a valued member.

Now, you dodged my original question... explain your "facts"... and just to give you a definition of what is a fact:

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.


Because if your "facts" are nothing more than reading what one side of this says, then they are not facts. No more than the police report is factual, considering you don't believe it is.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #220
225. No. And I'll quote me here:
"You are relatively new here. Raging isn't. He is a valued member of this community..."

So please take your feeble attempts at provocation elsewhere. I'm not buying in.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #225
228. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #228
229. So kind of you to think of the freaksters.
:rofl:
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #229
235. so, again you avoid stating your "facts"
no prob. I knew you didn't understand fact from fiction in the first place.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #235
277. Still trying to bait and still failing, I see.
:hi:
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #228
316. You seem quite concerned about making us palatable to freepers. Not a big worry on this board.
Maybe you made a wrong turn, somewhere? :shrug: MKJ
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #220
247. You should listen a little more carefully
Those of us who've been on this board for years have lots of experience with Raging's posts and have no reason to doubt the veracity of his account of these events.

Those of us who've been on this board for years know the cops lie, cheat and beat.

Those of us who've been on this board for years might take your posts on this thread as flame-bait at best and the most egregious form of trolling at worst.

It's up to you to try to overcome the deservedly negative opinion your posts on this thread seem to have generated among those of us who've been on this board for years.

I doubt that you'll find much sympathy for ass-kissing the cops on this board but you're welcome to try...
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #188
191. That wasn't part of the arrest though...
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 03:57 PM by Solon
They claimed he was blocking traffic in the MIDDLE of the street, and the photo disproves that assertion, which means the police lied in a police report, which is a serious offense, by itself.

ON EDIT: Besides, I pretty much disproved AZBlues assertion of what the photo shows. There was no accident on that street, at that time, anywhere near where the photo was taken.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #188
212. There are two stories: his, and the police report
The photo is only consistent with one of those stories.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #212
219. and how is the photo consistent with the OP story?
please explain that to me. Please.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #219
226. You do know the definition of consistent, right?
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 05:50 PM by piedmont
Within seconds, the five officer left the man they were questioning alone and came after me. One cop escorted me across the road. As I stood on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road, the cops began surrounding me, which was when I took several more photos.

Since this photo is taken across the street from the patrol cars, and all 5 officers are in it, approaching him, it's consistent. And yes, I'm assuming the OP is not lying when he says this was taken during the incident and at the place he says it happened. Otherwise there'd be no f'ing point in arguing. Like I said, it should be easy to verify that the landmarks in the background are on the side of the street as the officers were when he first came up on them.


And they accused me of standing in the middle of Biscayne Blvd while I was taking photos, obstructing traffic, which is why they had to arrest me. This is not true, as anybody familiar with the street can confirm, I would have been struck by a car within seconds.


This photo would have to be taken in the middle of the street to be inconsistent. And it's not.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #226
230. maybe we could ask
the OP to post the REST of the photos? If they are such evidentiary in nature, I think all of us deserve to see them. Wouldn't you agree?
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #230
233. He can do what ever he pleases with them.
If he chooses to post them, I'd be interested in seeing them.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #141
151. That photo is evidence that the OP wasn't standing in the street
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 03:13 PM by sfexpat2000
where they claim he was standing -- as that street is clearly BEHIND the asshole cops.

So, no. That's not all it's evidence of.

Why are you going out of your way to do this to a longtime DUer in good standing who has contributed so much to this community?

I find that astonishing, especially considering that he was just brutalized.

Do you have an answer for that?
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #151
162. I'm not doing anything to anyone.
I asked a question. Your assumptions about me and your misreading of my post have blown it up, out of proportion, not me. And, btw, the poster anwered my question - but I'm sure you ignore all posts unless you can verbally assault the writer.

Have a nice day.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #162
167. No assault. I asked a question.
A very reasonable question given the OP's track record on DU, this particular post and your unfounded insinuations about him.

:hi:
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #141
170. The last two sentences of the two-page arrest affidavit states ...
"Sgt. Rahming escorted the defendant to the middle of the street and told him to cross to the sidewalk. Defendant for the fourth time refused to obey the verbal commands and that was when he was arrested."

So according to the cops, they escorted me to the middle of the street -- so much for public safety -- and told me to continue crossing to the other side. Then they said that I had refused to continue crossing, as if I would be crazy enough to remain standing in the middle of Biscayne Blvd. According to them, I was arrested in the middle of the street.

The photograph contradicts this entire premise.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #170
210. IMHO,...
you should stop talking about the particulars of the case. What you have written already, as innocuous as it may seem, can come back and bite you in the arse.

Jay
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #138
164. There are actually two patrol cars parked across the street in the photo.
The other one is in the extreme right of the photo.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #164
183. Didn't notice it at first...
Just noticed it behind the elbow of that big cop on the right, still doesn't change anything in my post though.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. No, it lends further support to the claim that the cops were across the street
I agree with your post.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #138
172. Very apparent
that you didn't thoroughly read the OP, where he says he was told to cross the street, away from the police action. Where when he countered with "I am on a public street", he was then escorted across the street. I assume that is where he took the posted photograph from. Maybe we should ask him to clarify that?

And maybe we should figure out if the police car in the photo is where the police action was going on? Because, that is a distance of about 48 feet (four traffic lanes), less than his esitmated "20 yards"... which means that the police actually brought him closer than he originally was??

All I am saying is we hear one side of the story. If it were Faux New reporting that same one-side of the story, would you be so inclined as to buy it lock stock and barrel?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #172
178. No, but then I don't have years of good experience with Faux
as I do with RagingInMiami.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #178
189. I see
I see, you are convinced that an anonymous person behind a keyboard 2400 miles from SF would never stretch the truth or give a biased account. Makes sense. Got it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #189
193. I am convinced that I need to bring all of my experience to bear
on any problem. Logic 1A. Got it?
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #96
113. Great post!!
Unfortunately the vast majority of posters in this thread won't see the truth that you have so eloquently pointed out. Don't worry...not everyone here on DU has knee-jerk reactions - most of us here see that life is grey, not black and white as these posters see it. Unnecessary police brutality exists all over this country - I was just having a rather heated discussion this morning, arguing for action to be taken to stop this increasing trend. But, interfering with police is a very different thing from stopping unwarrented violence. Thanks for the logic and sanity!
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #113
120. Taking pictures from 20 yards is NOT interference
And you should know if you are truly concerned about increases in police brutality that the only thing that will accomplish that is exposure to the public. If you grant the police greater ability to obscure their activities from the public eye such abuses will increase, as surely as the night follows the day.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #113
122. Having worked in the streets
and coming from a police family I think I am not knee jerk about this

From what the OP writes... he was NOT inside any police self security zone... and the rules of the road are not hard to gather

ALso he was ON THE OTHER SIDE of a busy street.

Now either the OP has extremely good hearing, or that conversation did stay private.

You are right in one thing, things are usually with a shade of gray, but this is one of those cases that SHOULD be looked at by Internal Affairs, for improper use of force. And this is PRECISELY why IA should take a looksie, since thigns are multiple shades of gray



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #113
163. It is neither logic nor sanity to give up your civil rights just because
you are confronted by thugs.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #113
268. Yeah, we are all for human rights & freedom
Imagine that. :eyes:
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #96
116. You seem to have no clue about Police matters...
Police, while on duty, have no RIGHT TO PRIVACY, and all arrests and reports by police, on any incident, are a matter of public record. If I wanted to pay 10 bucks, I can get any arrest and traffic record on you, and you claim to have privacy when dealing with the police! Please.

The only exception are minors, both as victims and suspects, court records are usually sealed, however, the law is narrowly defined and the minor's legal guardians can waive the privacy laws.

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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #96
117. This post is a whole lot of...




Standing on public property while photographing an incident happening in public view is not illegal and certainly isn't "interfering with police matters," especially since he was SIXTY FEET away! If you don't stand up for your rights, you're just letting them be stolen.
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AbbyR Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
148. I don't think you are right
"Think of it like this. If I am having some kind of a problem and I call the police, I expect privacy. I dont expect 10 people to be able to listen in to my conversation with the police just because they think they have the right to by the Constitution. So while I am talking to the police about my daughters rape, or my wifes problems or anything else, you better believe Id side with the cop who told somebody to leave the area.

My personal problems, albeit as a victim or a criminal, are not meant to be public domain. Why should you, just because you are a photojournalist, be allowed to overhear my private conversations with the police? And how would or should a cop try and determine what you can and cannot here? Therefore you were asked to leave, asked to go across the street. When you disobey that lawful order, expect to be charged."

I work for a newspaper, and not only can I take pictures where I please, as long as I stay out of the way, it is my right (and yours) to do so. As for calling the police on a private matter - nope, that's public, too. The police will write a report of your private matter, and the name of the person who reported it will be on the report. I pick up the police reports once a week, and if someone reports a crime, I am perfectly within my rights to report it. I don't always do it, but I can.

For example, if you call and say your wife slugged you and you need an officers, your name goes on the report and I can say Mrs. Bushies gotta go called officers to her home at 123 First Street, stating that her husband, Mr. Bushies gotta go, hit her, causing injury...etcetc.

I CAN, and often do, withhold names or amounts of money taken, but it is always a favor and not a requirement.

As for photographs, if you are on public property and I am, too, you are fair game if I am not physically in your space and preventing you from doing your work.

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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #148
182. Thanks,,,and
I fully understand "freedom of information" and your ability to later obtain police reports. I also fully understand the rightt to take photographs.

But I will ask you... can you walk right up to where the police are dealing with a situation and begin to eavesdrop or even ask questions? No. That would be interfering. You said it yourself... "as long as I don't get in their way". And being a reporter, you surely recognize that "in the way" has no specific distance that may be kept, every situation differs.

There's a big difference between getting your reporting done by picking up a copy of the offense report later and barging into the middle of a police situation. There's also a big difference between (perhaps) your job where you might be known to the local cops versus some guy out of the blue walking up on a situation with a camera and refusing to do what the officers instruct him to do. Did the OP in this case even have credentials? Were they displayed? Did he tell them he was freelancing for a "dot com" (which could be construed as something like YouTube)?

Like I say, we have one side of the story.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. Did you read the OP? n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #182
194. Can you walk up to 60 ft away and watch or listen?
Can I watch, as a person of the public? Not interfering, just observing?
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:02 PM
Original message
sure, you can
But I really really question the distance... since he is closer than that when he takes the picture he took... after being escorted ACROSS THE STREET from that police car..
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #182
197. Stick to what the OP said instead of making up straw-men
But I will ask you... can you walk right up to where the police are dealing with a situation and begin to eavesdrop or even ask questions?

You're making up stuff that the OP NEVER SAID. He did not walk right up to them-- he was 60 feet away. He did not ask them anything, and what he heard was when one officer was shouting at the top of his lungs.

There's also a big difference between (perhaps) your job where you might be known to the local cops versus some guy out of the blue walking up on a situation with a camera and refusing to do what the officers instruct him to do. Did the OP in this case even have credentials? Were they displayed? Did he tell them he was freelancing for a "dot com" (which could be construed as something like YouTube)?

This is a pile of baloney. Every American has the right to stand on public property and photograph or observe events happening in the public eye, as long as they are not interfering with police or EMTs or jeopordizing anyone's safety. RaginginMiami wasn't doing any of those.



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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #197
202. and you know this because?
The OP in fact did say he approached the cops:

After hanging up, I walked over to an area where five cops were questioning a man, threatening him with arrest for reasons that were unknown to me. The cops were standing in a gravel construction area between the road and the sidewalk. I was standing on the gravel as well, but I was about 20 yards from them. The gravel area is part of the expansion construction that has been ongoing on the Blvd, which will eventually convert the street from two lanes to four lanes.

One of the cops told me to keep walking because this was a "private matter".
I said that I will not keep walking because this is a "public street".


Within seconds, the five officer left the man they were questioning alone and came after me. One cop escorted me across the road. As I stood on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road, the cops began surrounding me, which was when I took several more photos.


so lets use some common sense... he was "20 yards" away and could only hear the screaming cop but from that same distance, could hear another officer (over the screaming cop) tell him to KEEP walking????

So was he or was he not 60 feet away... that is the question...
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #202
207. So the "walk right up" part is the onlt bit of your strawman you'll defend?
so lets use some common sense... he was "20 yards" away and could only hear the screaming cop but from that same distance, could hear another officer (over the screaming cop) tell him to KEEP walking????

Yes, let's use that common sense. He's about 20 yards away, can hear the cop yell at the guy, and another cop tells him to keep walking. The word "tells" does not convey any information about how loud the command was. So yes, the officer who told him that could certainly have been speaking in an elevated voice as well. I know I can certainly understand speech directed at me from 60 feet away, even with background noise.

But beyond all that, he certainly looks to be across a busy street from the scene when they came over to arrest him. The landmarks in the background should confirm this.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #207
218. so the "60 feet" is your total argument?
You are going to take that to the bank, right? No sense in using any other thoguht process... since he is not even 60 feet from where the police units are parked (and the police action was going on). So you'll overlook the OPs OWN statement that he was originally over by those cops, on the same side of the street when he told them he didn't have to move along.

Hey, go for it. You only want to see it one way so you can rant and rave about what a travesty this is. But you won't look at what little facts and testimonials are really there.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #218
221. Actually, I don't believe he needed to be 60 feet from them to not interfere
but he said he was 60 feet away-- and if so, was perfectly within his rights to observe them.

since he is not even 60 feet from where the police units are parked (and the police action was going on).
Looks like around 60 feet to me. And how do you know the action was going on AT the patrol cars? You don't.
And this was after they made him move across the street. The 20 yards were in reference to when he was on the same side as the officers.

So you'll overlook the OPs OWN statement that he was originally over by those cops, on the same side of the street when he told them he didn't have to move along.
Nothing to overlook. He said he was 60 feet away from them.

But you won't look at what little facts and testimonials are really there.
Hey, I'm not the one making up stuff that wasn't in the OP.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #221
227. "Hey, I'm not the one making up stuff that wasn't in the OP."
Nope, you're not. You are just buying some persons biased version as whole and true.


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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #227
232. Right. I'm taking RaginginMiami's word on it instead of making up things that he never said.
Or assuming that RaginginMiami is lying about what happened.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #232
237. so when the shrub
goes on TV and says "I can't prove this... I just know Iran is..." You take his word too?

And yes, I know shrub is a proven liar... but can you bet on your life that raginginmiami is a totally honest person?
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #237
287. Uh, just 'cause I'm willing to believe RaginginMiami doesn't mean I believe anyone
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 11:13 PM by piedmont
but can you bet on your life that raginginmiami is a totally honest person?
What a ridiculous question! What on Earth does betting my life have to do with believing RaginginMiami's story? Heck even YOU believe at least part of it enough to be arguing about it.
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AbbyR Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #182
215. I'm really not trying to argue with you
"You said it yourself... "as long as I don't get in their way". And being a reporter, you surely recognize that "in the way" has no specific distance that may be kept, every situation differs."

If the original poster was as far away as he says he was, and I have no reason to doubt him, he was within his rights to be there, I would think. From 20 yards away, he probably would have needed a short telephoto lens to get any kind of decent picture, and to me, that's not in anyone's way. If I was that far away and the police asked me to leave, we would have had a discussion about it. I don't, by nature, argue with law enforcement officials or ever want to interfere with them doing their job, but 20 yards? Yeah, I'd want to talk about it. I'd be polite, but chat we would, and if they were aggressive to me, I'd go to the chief...but I would try to avoid getting my head bashed in - it's almost never worth that to me.

You are right about local cops - mine do know and trust me, but I don't see them having a fit about some anonymous bystander if he was really across the street 20 yards away...but then, I wasn't there.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #215
224. not arguing with you either
Abby... look, you know what I am talking about... we both agree. Heck, I agree that 60 feet is a long distance. On the other hand, circumstances dictate response. At night, a sole pedestrian, maybe they are already dealing with a felon (who knows?) and they ask the guy to go across the street.

My point is that I seriously doubt that the distance was 60 feet. First, let me remind you that he was ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET and being told to GO to the other side when he responded with "this is a public street". This is by the OPs own account of the facts. Yet so many people are hanign onto that he was "60 feet and across the street" when he was told to go away.

Now I ask you to look at the picture. You've been to many crimes scenes. Look at the parked police vehicles. You know that is where the action was. And that area is where he was told to "go across the street". And by his own admission, he refused and was escorted to the middle of the street by an officer.

That officer told him to continue crossing. He apparently hesitated or again voiced his opinion of "it's a public street" or whatever he did. And it was at that point that they decided to arrest him. Now consider that they are still over by the police cars when they decide to arrest him. He knows he's in for it. So THEN he goes to the sidewalk as he says. But it's too late, they come across to his side of the street and make the arrest... while he is photographing them.

Again, I sincerely doubt 60 feet. If you draw a straight line from where he's taking those pictures and where the action is at, you'll probably find he was no more than a car length away from them... about 15 feet.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #224
294. Dude, I could have been six feet from the cops and I still would not have been breaking the law
God, I hope the cops have a lawyer like you defending them in court cause they'll surely lose.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #294
318. Oh, snap! LOL, Raging!
We can only hope! :toast: MKJ
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #148
271. Good response
I wonder if the poster can understand civil rights - and how can someone with such beliefs call themselves a liberal?

Something is not right with those few posters who hate freedom. They have been logged.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #96
186. Wrong.
1. You discuss anything on the public street, assume the public can notice or hear.
2. 60 feet is violating what they felt was their safety zone? No way. Not in an incident like this. 60 ft is plenty far for them to feel "safe" from being watched, overheard, photographed.
3. Stopping to watch put the police on the defensive, they have a problem. They chose to be distracted by someone 60 ft away and put them all in a more dangerous situation.
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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #186
192. if it was 60 feet.... remember... if it was... n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #192
196. OK, what if it was 60 ft? And, if not, #1 still applies.
1. You discuss anything on the public street, assume the public can notice or hear.
2. 60 feet is violating what they felt was their safety zone? No way. Not in an incident like this. 60 ft is plenty far for them to feel "safe" from being watched, overheard, photographed.
3. Stopping to watch put the police on the defensive, they have a problem. They chose to be distracted by someone 60 ft away and put them all in a more dangerous situation
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #96
198. 60 feet is a safety zone? What a load of shit
If that were true, cops would be the only ones on a the road
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #96
223. two points...
1) your argument quotes Chris Rock's sardonic (but all too accurate) bit about how to survive an encounter with the police when you are "driving while black" -- but you use his words in a manner that suggests that he is reading from a some citizen's guide to interacting with the police.

2) you have every right to give up your civil rights. but DO NOT think that you can give up anybody else's.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #96
242. You say "We all get along fine" and then you give a bunch of examples of how you DO NOT get along
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 06:44 PM by Hissyspit
fine.

???

Speaking as a former newspaper reporter/photographer, I agree that YOU can make any decisions and compromises that YOU want to with regards to how you accomplish your Constitutional-guaranteed expression of freedom of the press.

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Bushies gotta go Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #242
269. what I said was
That I don't escalate a situation by citing my rights or telling a cop it is a "public street". That is stupid. There is a time and a place. They violate your rights, you deal with it later but go along with the program... it is their program at the moment.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #269
273. Their program includes bodily injuries to a man with a camera?
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 08:47 PM by btmlndfrmr
These guys "effed" up regardless and by the looks of it with not just some guy with disposable camera, a serious photographer with some connections who took several pictures and only posted one. Posted one I'd guess to put the officers on record. Who posted a thread because what happened to him need to be shared for his protection, yours and all of us. Your posturing doesn't change the fact he was injured during the arrest. He didn't resist and they state that. They are in trouble. Protect and serve is now presence and persuasion. IMO your assumptions/opinions are out of line but your welcome to them, as we are to ours.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #96
254. You have the right to be uncritical of the police BUT
You have no right to expect others to be so. Your acceptance of the correctness of the police actions is, as far as I can see based soley upon the very questionable proposition that, "the authorities know best;" which, if carried to it's logical conclusion, means that you have no right to question the activities of the executive.

Your whole post raised far more questions than it answers; I'll list some -

Every cop has a right to be safe. Every cop has a right to go home at the end of their shift. When they work the street, they practice certain safety procedures that you as a citizen do not understand.
I beg your pardon? The police have special knowlege that cannot be imparted to normanl mortals?

When working a call, they make themselves a safety zone. By stopping 60 feet from them and photographing them, you violated what they felt was their safety zone.
So why do they not make that clear to the press and public? Or are the general public too ignorant to understand the special knowlege that the police have?

Once they asked you to leave, that is what you should have done.
Why? Was the new object of their attention stopping them working? Did it need the 5 officers to abandon their, no doubt, legal proceedure - why not 1 or 2?

But it was at that point, that you told them you would defy their orders for you to leave, that you distracted them from their work. It is because of that distraction that you were charged with interfering. And I believe, rightfully so. Had you waited until the situation was over and then approached an officer to find out what was going on, you wouldn’t have been interfering. But distracting them while they are in the process of handling a situation can be construed as interfering.
I am sorry but there are few reasons that any police force can have for asking a person to move on. It might be for the safety of that person or because watching creates a threat to others; in either case it does not require 5 officers to force that person to move on but it does require 1 or 2 officers to state why and what would be acceptable.

And for those that believe that because a cop is a public worker and they (the citizen) has a right to question them or “stand watch” while they are involved in a situation, think again. Police matters are private.
No they are not private. Police matters are those which involve public safety and order and may lead to legal action. Does this ridiculous statement mean that you ar in favour of secret police and courts?

Think of it like this. If I am having some kind of a problem and I call the police, I expect privacy. I don’t expect 10 people to be able to listen in to my conversation with the police just because they think they have the right to by the Constitution. So while I am talking to the police about my daughter’s rape, or my wife’s problems or anything else, you better believe I’d side with the cop who told somebody to leave the area.
Whereas I would side with the person who made it clear to the police that personal and legal matters should be discussed in private.

My personal problems, albeit as a victim or a criminal, are not meant to be public domain. Why should you, just because you are a photojournalist, be allowed to overhear my private conversations with the police? And how would or should a cop try and determine what you can and cannot here? Therefore you were asked to leave, asked to go across the street. When you disobey that lawful order, expect to be charged.
Could you explain to me what a "lawful order" is? I have a problem with taking orders since I am neither a policeman nor a member of the armed services. The police can request me to move on they can then inform me that I am obstructing their work or am endangering myself or others. They could issue an instruction - not order - that they will arrest me if I continue to obstruct or endanger.

You spend the rest of your post alternately bemoaning the difficulties this makes for you or justifying those difficulties. I would suggest to you that you read your own post and ask yourself why you have been ordered to stop you legal activities, why you have been detained, why you have been handcuffed, why your media has been removed, why you have been roughed up. You are a journalist but it seems that you have abrogated your responsibility to your job in favour of an easy life.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #96
259. Whadda crocka chickenshit bullshit.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
97. The line between the good guys and the bad guys get more blurred every day.




It used to be that the BAD guys were the lying bullies.

Keep us posted RIM.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:





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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
98. In addition to my PM to you with some legal advice, I add this.
I forgot to tell you to get closeup color photos of your injuries, and collect your medical records as you get treatment - it's easier to get them now than months or years later - it can take a long time for cases to get to court.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. AND buddy up with someone who can help you get that done.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:02 PM by sfexpat2000
There is trauma associated with what you just went through. Get a buddy to help you walk through this because you know the other side will be counting on your trauma to take you out.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
100. It sounds as though you witnessed something that they didn't want seen
Do you have photos of the first guy that they were harassing? If you do I would try to find him.

I hope you are fine and do not have any unseen injuries. Please take care of yourself and sue the hell out of them!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
104. Aw, man! I hope you are ok and that no further harassment enuses
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
109. k&r
:hug:
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
115. Good luck man.
Having heard numerous stories and a few of my own run in with Miami Dade cops, I'm glad you're alive. From my experience, MDP officers are real animals.
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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
118. Land of the free? Home of the brave? Has martial law been declared in Miami?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. You have to remember, that this was the police department that took potshots...
at a SINGLE protester, a local businesswoman, who was protesting the FTAA meeting in Miami in, I believe, 2003. They used rubber bullets, and she was by herself at the time, over 50 YARDS from the police, and they were taking potshots, for fun.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
121. Take them and the fascist Miami dept to court
While you're at it-- shine some light on the BSO.

Miami PD needs to be taken down like any junta--by the people using the laws of the land.

Each of those brownshirts who took you down should be rotting in Crome right now.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
130. Dude, glad your somewhat OK...
I know you probably feel like crap, but at least you are alive and KICKING I hope. Kick them in the ass in court, can't take back what they did, but I truly hope you cost those assholes in the photos their jobs.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
131. Scum like that tarnish the reputation of all cops.
Assuming you're not misrepresenting what happened (which I doubt), good luck and hit 'em with everything you've got.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. They do and should be drummed out of the cop business
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 02:44 PM by sfexpat2000
In my 'hood, we have many cop and firefighter families. These are the best people I know -- dealing with all the issues our society has completely bailed on, day in and day out. They don't deserve to be tarnished with the behavior of these thugs.

/ack
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chefgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
132. Goddamned Cops!
And Goddamned Florida!

Sorry for what they put you through, RIM.
This is why I detest and do NOT trust most police officers these days.

Thanks for standing up to them, and I wish you all the best. This IS still America and they need a little reminder. The ACLU is pretty good at that.

Kick some ass for all of us!

-chef-
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
144. Oh, man, Raging. I hope you are okay and successful with your lawsuit. Keep us updated.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
159. Miami was where the cops beat up the FTAA/free-trade protestors
With that creep Timoney in charge.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
160. If that's what happened, sue their asses off.
Good luck to ya.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
165. Definite Agenda
I'm 52 and an alcoholic. I've been sober for 15 years. (Bear with me, this does have a point.) Anyway, back in my wild and drunken youth, I got busted for Public Intoxication about six times. I fought the cops; I bit a cop; it once took five cops to take me down. They were so nice to me. Sympathetic, kind, concerned, offered to take me to AA, etc.

In political demonstrations, when I have actually been being peaceful, they've thrown me against walls, kneed me in the stomach, sprayed me with tear gas, thrown me on the ground, etc.

To me, this proves it's political and it's an agenda and it's with intent. I hope you go as far with this as you can and I wish you well and hope you win. Bullies are scary enough. Bullies with guns and night sticks and mace, a deadly prospect.

Good luck to you.
Lee
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
174. Well, the law is pretty clear on this:
Cops can do whatever the fuck they want, period- and ordinary peoples would do well to not question their divine authority.

I think that's a law, isn't it?
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #174
205. If some people had there way that would be the law.
All I can say is, Over My Dead Body!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #205
213. If we allow them to *act* as if it is the law, what is the difference?
We better eat our Wheaties, ThomCat.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #213
216. Agreed.
x(
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #213
231. you took the words right outta my mouth
except my post would read "Whether we allow them to *act* as if it is the law, or whether WE act as if it's the law, what is the difference? Either way it becomes like a "de facto" law, and we're screwed while they ratchet up the police state another couple of degrees.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
177. Assholes
Reminds me of a "Dateline" type TV show I saw. It had a hidden camera segment of a 20yr old guy walking into different police stations requesting a complaint form.

Most of the desk sergeants wouldn't give him a form, saying, "that's not the way we do things..." Most demanded that he tell them right there who he was complaing about. Several told him firmly to leave.

One cop even went so far as to escort him out of the station, then continued to harass him, forcing him to walk about a block away. At one point he began to draw his weapon simply because the kid was standing up to him and telling him politely that he was now on public property and not required to move.

There's something in some cops' psyche that overeacts when they are not immediately obeyed.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
187. So sorry that happened to you RIM.
I hope you get your day in court and some justice.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
200. K & R. Best of luck in your fight for justice. I'm so sorry your rights were violated like that. nt
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
208. Of COURSE Raging is telling the truth
Cops, and definitely those in Miami, have become, as a whole, thugs and an affront to decency.

Raging, I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I KNOW you will do something with it to stop the madness. I'm the guy that talked to you about my guy friend way back, who lived in south beach who pushed me away and told me about latins and they're general thoughts on gay and being gay, I'm sure you remember me, and I appreciated your being a straight friend of my plight, and to hear that you've been beaten down by these thugs makes me sick.

Is there ANYTHING I can do?

You are a journalist, and have every right to take photos, however, we are in a rogue state imo, and they make up their take on the laws very gingerly. I think you're not supposed to take photos of the police w/o permission, however, you're a journalist and identified yourself as such. They need put under polygraph - THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHO THEY'VE F-D WITH!

I will write the Miami Herald, anything else, let me know.

themartyred
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
209. cops in miami
go to youtube and type in miami police and find the video of the lady getting shot in the butt in the peace march and them laughing about it the next morning hysterically!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
222. Good Luck, Dude!
It sounds like they slammed the wrong man this time.
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peacebuzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
234. I am glad you are out of jail and in shape to tell us about it.
so sorry about how they battered you. Wow.
Keep us posted, this is a sad story, my friend. thanks for the good work you do.

I really enjoy your photography. Your Cuba story was beautiful....

Heal fast and well amigo.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
239. Thank you four courageous stand, RIM.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
243. I wish you the best of luck!!!
Gosh I hope you win this case for real. Good luck!!!
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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
245. Cops HATE camera's and video gear. It's the freedom y'know.
There are many documented cases of police beating up and arresting journalists and citizen oversight crews who photograph of videotape them.

In the UK they are starting to mount videocameras on the bobbies headgear to facilitate arrests of "hooligans." The upside would be that the cop in question isn't likely to just start beating somebody without probable cause.





American cops and prison guards would scream bloody murder before they allowed the public to watch what they do every day.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
248. call the aclu
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 07:22 PM by barbtries
call a civil rights attorney. sue, sue, sue. get rich. those mofos.

edited because i thought i'd read the whole post and i had not. how to blush in emoticons?????
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
249. Well, as you can see, Raging, DU has your back.
This is beyond outrageous. The small SUV on the left is a Jeep Liberty (I own one); the front tag can probably be enhanced and read.

The PD is probably (note, probably) required to provide the names and ranks of each officer involved in this travesty.

Never give up the fight. We're all behind you, and I'm with the poster who said giving up a little fun to help in any defense fund is worth it.

Not all cops are like this; it seems the "big city" guys are more aggressive than others. I do wish you all good karma, and hope your injuries heal quickly and without pain.

Best wishes from the Northland. :hug: :pals: :hug:
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
252. Dont take this as if I'm saying I dont believe you
but why are there no shadows around the officers, when you can see one near the wheels of the black car?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #252
255. Sheeesh!!
I'm not a photographer, but I know that city streets at night have multiple light sources -- many streetlights, cars, etc... (As you walk down the street, where your shadow falls, and from where, changes.) There is definitely light on the cops from the front; their shadows are clear.
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #255
256. I'm not a photographer either...
so I'm sure it's nothing.
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slowry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #252
267. camera flash... car lights... other ambient light... what exactly are you suggesting? n/t
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #252
275. There are shadows.
They have shadows in back of them as a strong light source is coming from the camera flash. Look at the hand in the lower left hand corner. There is clearly a shadow there. And there is clearly a shadow outlining most of them.


Just an observation.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #252
278. And Raging would need you to believe him why? n/t
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #252
280.  A 400.00 flash = lots of lumens ...heh n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #252
299. Holy Shit, Dude!
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 12:54 AM by impeachdubya
That's EGGSACTLY how they faked the Moon Landings, too!

:tinfoilhat: :crazy: :tinfoilhat:
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-25-07 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #299
327. Bwahahaahahahaahaha!!!
Edited on Sun Feb-25-07 09:51 AM by wicket
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Janice325 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
258. Wow! Good luck with your fight.
I've never seen a thread before with this many recommendations. I was #148.
k&r
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
260. one count of resisting arrest w/o violence? How does one do that?
Doesn't one need to be violent to resist arrest for the police to justify your contusions?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
261. Good pic. Many people have it now.
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 07:55 PM by AX10
I am sorry to hear of this horrid situation that you are in. I am also ashamed of the few that would question your right (as an American and a Journalist)to ask these Cops about what was happening.

Call the ACLU and get this to the media, ASAP!

Best of luck to you!

:hug:

k/r
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
262. .
Wow, that sounds awful.
I hope you get well soon.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
263. Bad cops, no donut
I've met some good cops and some cops that would steal your booze & fireworks for their own use and at least one who was a coke head.

Looks like you found a bad bunch - don't allow these thugs to remain as cops as they are dangerous to society.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
266. do it, go forward, lawyer up and sue the bastards...
good luck...though i don't think luck will have that much to do with your prevailing :hi:
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #266
276. I think they messed with the wrong guy this time.
I hope they pay for it.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #276
320. me too...
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SaneInSC Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
272. Their bosses
Their bosses are the citizens via whom..city council and the mayor? Maximum pressure should be applied. Rosa Parks made a difference and I'm sure that you can as well. Police are some of the best and WORST in our society. What a disgrace.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
274. I hope you win a big law suit and they fire the cops
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
279. Best of Luck, RaginginMiami. Sue the blue pants off the nazi thugs.
:hug:
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
283. You get 'em, Raging!
I sure hope you're OK and that your lawsuit
will prevail in court.

Get these lying bastards!!

Remind them that they are here to
"serve and protect".


:grr:
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msedano Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
284. Justice: A Question of Race?
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:34 PM by msedano
I'm surprised you weren't charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Everyone has heard the pen is mightier than the sword, so being shot by you musta scared the caca out of these fine officers.

There's hope for your case, if history can repeat itself. Back a few years, Low Rider Magazine journalist Roberto Rodriguez was charged with assault when he took photos of LA cops rousting a fellow as the local heat was shutting down kids' cruising on Whittier Boulevard. Rodriguez sued the LA Sheriff and won. He also went through years of harassment and outright fear. Best wishes to you on the case. I'm amazed the camera survived the incident, but glad to see the images might uphold your claims.

Here's Rodriguez on his book:
Justice : A Question of Race
Roberto Rodriguez
PUBLICATION DATE: May 2, 1997

This work includes two books -- Assault With a Deadly Weapon & On the Wrong
Side of the Law. Both are works which were written in 1984 and 1986 -- work
which no one had interest in then and which were destined for the archives.
It is the story of Roberto Rodriguez's two police brutality trials and his
seven-and-a-half year quest for justice. Savagely beaten in 1979 by East L.A
Sheriff's deputies, Rodriguez faced charges of attempting to kill the
officers that almost took his life. The books reveal the underworld of police
brutality and the system that permits it to flourish.

recommended
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
285. This whole "Post 9/11 world" mentality
has given some police and other officials the notion that they can do whatever they want with impunity. Take them to the cleaners. :grr:
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
288. Good Lord.....
is the guy on the right reaching for his gun?

Hope you feel better soon and sue their asses.

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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
289. 168 recommendations.
Best of luck to you. I hope your injuries heal quickly.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
290. Those cops have fucked with the WRONG DU'er....
Good luck with your case - keep us updated - let us know what we can do to help!
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
291. GOD DAMN FASCIST PIGS!!
FUCK THEM!!

Sue them and get them all fired!!

SR
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
292. Good luck to you. Sorry you are hurting. :(
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
293. I support you 100%...you stood tall for freedom. K&R n/t
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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
295. I'm a journalist and your are right....so sue the lieing bastards
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 12:30 AM by Swagman
look at the great support you have on here. It's good to see. It's a pity you didn't have a small tape recorder to switch on. I know it's always easy to say after the fact but I do it as a matter of course now everytime I go anywhere especially if the cops are involved..you never know..just a little digital one. There was a recent case in the UK where a guy won his case against the police when he recorded them on his cell phone abusing him.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
296. This probably set them off:
"One of the cops told me to keep walking because this was a "private matter".
I said that I will not keep walking because this is a "public street"."

When you don't listen to their order or "suggestion", they tend to get testy. You in essence in their minds were challenging their authority thus interfering in the exercise of their duty concerning the other individual and public safety. Certainly not worth or warranting getting beaten up though. They certainly can't challenge your right to photograph. IMO, they will be disciplined and you reimbursed for medical.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
297. You know what to do
Fight these MoFo's all the way. I'll have your back on this; all of DU will...
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
298. Raging, you know, it's the Miami Model (CAFTA)
Go, dude, go! I'm saddened this happpened to you, and furthermore it's disturbing that it happened, but time to test the model of Timmoney.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
300. You threatened their authority. Good luck and I hope you get them
all fired. There was no call for that. A conversation and maybe some restraint would have solved this problem is 5 seconds.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
302. Glad to see you're not letting this go.
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 01:10 AM by Kurovski
I hope you heal soon.

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
303. Sue their ass and I hope you win.
Cops have a tough job to do, but need to do it right. Beating up innocent people is out of line. Shit, they're not allowed to beat up guilty people either. :shrug:

--IMM
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kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
305. Go get 'em tiger!!
I've had to many encounters with cops to believe that this instance will turn out any different than any other, but I admire your courage. I don't know if you know what you have in store for you if you really do pursue this. I do, and I'm praying for you. You haven't seen the worst of it yet.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
306. Oh. my. gods. Raging, please be well and safe. Thank you for your work,& best of luck with your suit
:wow: and a DU :grouphug:

That is some scary shit to go through. I'm grateful we still have a few journalists with guts in this country .

Hekate

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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
308. WTF?? what country is miami in?
"THIS IS NOT AMERICA...sha la la la la"
(david bowie/pat metheny)

what a horrible experience.

i'm really sorry to hear you went through such a crazy time.

it sounded like you were denied medical attention. do i understand this right? you didn't see a doctor until you spent 16 hours in lock up first? don't forget to tell the lawyers that.

i wish you all the best--and all the luck you need to fight this fight.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
313. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!! HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?!?!
I can't believe this. When did Amerika turn into a state where police rule everything?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #313
319. When did reporters become fair game?
Stuff like this has happened to citizens but reporters, afaik, been given a measure of respect. Or, should I say American reporters in America?

What's next? Death squads?
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
314. A similar thing happened at Galveston Mardi Gras...
a Galveston Daily news photographer, Nick Adams, was shoved, wrestled to the ground, and arrested for taking pictures of cops arresting a man for public intoxication. The say he broke past them and tried to interfere. He says he did not, and that the only contact he had with any officer was when he was approached and shoved by them.

The photos he took before they tackled him were deleted from the camera.

News Photography Becomes the Story After Police Arrest
http://www.khou.com/news/local/galveston/stories/khou07...

I went up to take a photo. And the first thing he did was to push my camera back into my face and I stepped back, said Adams.

He was on assignment last Saturday shooting a street performer when, he says, a League City police officer, hired for Mardi Gras, overreacted and prevented him for photographing a routine arrest. I went to take another photo and he immediately said Boy I told you not to take photos and pushed me back again.

Adams was arrested for interfering with police.

He says the over aggressive officer also cracked the screen on his $4,000 camera and damaged its auto focus.

But theres more to this story than Adams arrest and his broken camera. The photographer says once he was handcuffed, someone deleted two pictures of the scene from his camera and then took ten others inside the police command tent.

It is alleged frames 11 and 12 are missing from the cameras hard drive.

He figures police snapped the shaky shots that follow. I think it was crossing the line when they took a photo in the first place. What if they have your wallet? Do they take out $20 and put in $10.
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
315. The same thing happened to a reporter from the Eugene
newspaper, Register Guard. They ended up suing and winning.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
317. Can we get a pdf of the police report?
I sure it would be an "interesting" read.
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Left Hook Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
321. Hey
Do you have pics of your injuries?
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
324. 194 recommendations!
I have to hand it to you guys. The response on this thread has been overwhelming.

I initially was hesitating to post anything until at least the first article came out, which should be sometime this week when my editor gathers all the police reports. Then I decided to post something in the photo group, as this happened to me on a photo excursion. Then someone on that thread recommended I post it in GD.

But never did I expect 194 recommendations for the Greatest Page. You guys are great. Thanks for all the support.

I will keep you posted as to what happens. Round One may have gone to the Miami PD, but this bout is far from over.



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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-25-07 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
325. please contact me
If you like send PM me your number.
In the meantime, if you haven't already done so, contact the Herald and the Sun-sentinel.


Ac
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
329. anything which is in public view can be legally photographed.
especially since you were on a sidewalk at the time.

you have legitimate grounds for a huge lawsuit.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
330. good luck with your case
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
331. Florida's "peacekeepers" would be out on their ass in Germany
The law in Germany is that police are to protect its citizens, to include journalists as well as protesters.

I steer clear of FL and TX for that reason...just won't go there, unless for a connecting flight.
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