I'm going to make a fairly simple post here. I want you to convince me.

[DarkTirade]

For the record, I'm not undecided. I do have a list in my head of which candidates I like best and why. But I am open-minded enough to realize that since I have avoided a lot of the sniping and arguing, I've probably also avoided a fact or two here and there. So I'd like to know... why do you think your candidate is the best choice? I don't want any sniping of other candidates, nor do I want to hear about what the Clinton followers or Obama haters or whatever group of people who are NOT the candidates have done/said lately. I just want to know why you think your candidate is right.

I also think this might help clear out some misconceptions about some of the other posters here, since we're all a bit on edge and I've seen more than one instance of people jumping down each other's throats at perceived attacks on them or their candidate. So let's not do that here. If you think something is an attack or flamebait... please don't rise to it in my thread. I want to keep this as clean and informative as possible.

I don't want impassioned speeches, just plain old information. Informed voters are good voters. And I'd like to be as informed as possible. What does your candidate support? What is your candidate against? Is the candidate's past record good? Does your candidate stand up against those who need standing up against, and stand up for those who need standing up for? Etc.

If you do feel the need to list a con rather than a pro, please try to avoid doing it in any flameish manner. Like I said, I just want this to be informative, not inflammatory.

[cali]

1. Why not do your own research and inform yourself? n/t

[ccpup]

3. that's not really fair

one of the great gifts of DU is the opportunity to have a conversation with informed supporters and voters. To have that back-and-forth as to why they support so-and-so and to ask necessary questions.

Yes, research is good and absolutely should be done. But research alone lacks the conversational element that many people learn the most from.

[blondeatlast]

5. While you have a point, I don't think starting a stand-alone thread is the way to do this.

As I say below, I know where the candidates stand on the issues and I'm very much an issues voter. I find it easier to engage the dialog on the issue and the stance/vote the candidate has taken on it.

This seems a roundabout way of doing it to me--and all too easily turned into a major flamewar.

[DarkTirade]

4. I have. Is there anything wrong with double-checking my facts with like-minded people?

*edit* My reason for this is also twofold, as I mentioned in the OP. I'm also hoping that a plain simple non-emotional list of reasons people support particular candidates may help clear the air and make room for better discussion in general.

[Bandit]

15. What exactly would you call the post if not research?

:crazy: Such snarkiness....

[democraticmuslim]

23. He is doing research

He is doing research. He is asking for the opinions of others. I give this person and anyone else a lot of credit for this. He is not insulting or confrontational. He is merely asking for information that he might have previously dismissed as unimportant or forgotten.

Whoever is elected, we need to prevent any neo-conservatives from gaining power. They are nothing but war mongers and they are no friend of the peaceful followers of Islam.

[otherlander]

33. Somebody needs a tapir in their day.

[blondeatlast]

2. I'm undecided, but I know where the candidates stand on the issues that matter most to me

and I'm observing them for leadership skills, potential to influence the opposition, and how they relate to the hoi-polloi.

It really isnt difficult to research the issues and previous votes and watching the "relaiable" MSM (Countdown/Bill Moyers, etc.) will yiels a lot of the rest.

The rest can easily be filled in by DU's GD (NOT GD/P).

[DarkTirade]

9. Thanks for your input. Any feelings at the moment one way or another,

or are you still collating data like me? :)

[blondeatlast]

14. I was really disappointed to lose Biden--I thought he came close

on all my levels (Issues, leadership--and foreign relations is my biggest issue!).

I'm kind of starting from square one now. I like Kucinich on the issues but he simply can't be influential enough. Edwards seems to be my best prospect now, but I had really, really hoped to have a broader field going into Super
Tuesday.

My primary is Super Tuesday and I actually e-mailed EVERY Democratic campaign to plea that their candidates stay in until then but money will out--and it did. Siiiigh...

[tigereye]

20. fwiw, there are some pretty well-informed posters in GD/P

It isn't all gnashing of teeth.... ;)


good post, btw!


:thumbsup:

[Saturday]

6. I will support any nominee.

Having said that I think Hillary is my first choice and I think would be able to be President on Day 1. I feel we are in a desperate situation (because of Bush) that needs immediate attention. She personally knows so many leaders in the world and I think that will bode well to help fix our problems. I do not agree with any candidate on all issues so I have decided the issue most important is to fix the Bush mess and I think Hillary is the best for that.

[DarkTirade]

10. That's a good point.

I hadn't actually considered that about her before. And that's why I asked the question. :) As open-minded as I may consider myself, there are always going to be a few viewpoints here and there that I may miss until someone points them out to me.

[Rockholm]

7. What's up with you fork and spoon sig line?

[DarkTirade]

8. A spoof of the fundie man + woman = marriage bumper sticker.

In fine print at the bottom it says, "Just say no to same-silverware marriage."

[Rockholm]

16. OK.

Hoping it was some sort of spoof. Here in Massachusetts, we have (had) the real thing.

[DarkTirade]

17. Unfortunately it hit a little too late for my family.

My great-uncle's parter of 20+ years died in 2000 of cancer only a few years before they would have been allowed to get married. And being unitarians (my great-uncle is unitarian minister), I'm sure they would have had no problem finding someone willing to officiate.

[Rockholm]

26. Got married in 2004 when equal marriage was legalized.

It was quite powerful....and empowering.

[DarkTirade]

29. Nice to finally be able to do something that most of the rest of the world takes for granted.

Rights don't seem all that important... until you're missing one.

[thevoiceofreason]

11. Obama is inspirational

And I do think that translates into an ability to lead. My admiration of him began when I learned we were law school contemporaries, different schools, of course. Here is someone who was at the top of the class of the most difficult law school in the country (editor in chief of the HLR). The world was at his feet. He chose public service. That choice -- that willingness -- to remain in sync with regular folks leads me to believe in him. I like Edwards and Clinton too -- I just admire Obama more.

[DarkTirade]

12. That's certainly better than the alpha male "I think Bush will kick someone's ass" voters... :)

And I've known a few of them. One of them's dating my sister. :\

Since he seems to be in the lead right now I hope you're right. This country needs an effective leader after the last eight years.

[DarkTirade]

13. I have to run an errand, so I won't be able to answer anybody for the next little while

but I'll be back in a little bit. Please, no flames on my thread when I'm gone. Thanks! :)

[DarkTirade]

18. Back from my errands

and ready for more input. :)

[bean fidhleir]

19. Kucinich

despite his flaws (and he has plenty of flaws) is the only candidate with an actual record of fighting the corporactocracy tooth and nail. He got the nickname "Dennis the Menace" in Cleveland because he went toe-to-toe with the corpo rulers.

He lost his job because he did the right thing and saved the public electric utility from "privatisation". The savings to the people since then are documented at $300,000,000, and if we presume that the scumbag company would have pulled an Enron on Clevelanders, the savings are possibly over $1,000,000,000.

He's the only listed Dem pushing for:

immediate pullout from Iraq and Afghanistan,

single-payer,

an end to the drugs war,

tax-paid education from pre-school through grad school,

a decent pension,

killing off the WTO and NAFTA,

a WPA-type jobs program to rebuild US infrastructure, and

equal rights across the board.

[DarkTirade]

21. Thank you. That's exactly the sort of list I'm looking for. :)

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. Plus impeachment, controlling the corporations, removing lobbyists, restoring the Constitution...

[bean fidhleir]

25. Oh, and as Peake's response reminded me

he's stated that he's in favor of giving BushCo over to the ICC for trial. Not a trivial issue I'm sure you'll agree.

[bean fidhleir]

28. (and yet more - there's too much to get in one go, I guess)

He has an excellent record of winning against GOP opposition, even in a GOP-leaning/Reagan-Democrat area like Ohio 10. He has won more elections than Obama, Edwards, and Hillary have even been in.

He took the mayor's job away from a GOP incumbent, he was one of only 3 (I think it was 3 - a very small number, anyway) people nationwide to take a state senate seat away from the GOP when the Dems were losing their shirts under Clinton, and he took his current House seat away from a GOP incumbent. People vote for him, whenever they're not being smoked by a hostile press and lack of party support.

He's also a union member, and sees himself as being 'an FDR Democrat'.

His family was deathly poor growing up, and after he got blacklisted out of politics in '79 he spent years living on the edge of homelesness until finally people started waking up. He says that he's lived the kind of life so many of us live, so he knows how it feels and wants to do something about it.

The only part of his past politics I didn't like was his anti-Choice stance. But he noted that he'd never voted to criminalize abortion, and that getting the crap beaten out of him for years by every woman he knows finally straightened him out. So in 2002 he quit voting against Choice, and since 2003 he's been voting pro. He's the only candidate who says he'll make support for Choice a litmus test for SCOTUS nominees.

I can't think of anything he's voted on since 2002 where I would have voted differently. Maybe the flag-burning thing, if I didn't figure out in time, the way he did, that it was just another GOP ploy to embarrass the Dems. On edit: I lie. He's recently introduced legislation to ban handguns. Last time he was pro-second amendment, so I don't know what the deal is now. But I disagree with the idea of banning. I like the BOR just the way it is.

[graywarrior]

22. I'm the same as you, DarkTirade--undecided.

One minute, I'm inspired by the leadership qualities of Obama, next minute, John Edwards says something that hits home, and another time Hillary seems like the wisest choice.

Here's my thing though..I want change. Real change. Of the three top candidates, Hillary and Edwards have been around a long time and I keep going back to that thought. I really don't think I will know whom I will vote for until I enter the voting booth. I do know that I will not vote for "hype" but I will vote for substance. I'll be watching to see which candidate shows true strength over the next few weeks before the primaries in FL.

[DarkTirade]

27. Well, I'm not undecided... just open to being swayed because none of the top 3 are at the top of my

list. :)

[graywarrior]

30. Are you for Dennis?

Because he'd be my first choice

[DarkTirade]

31. Yeah, he's at the top of my list.

But I'm still open to new ideas. :)

[graywarrior]

32. I know his NH coordinator.