FBI turns to broad new wiretap method.

[EnviroBat]

source: Declan McCullagh, News.com
Published on ZDNet News: Jan 30, 2007 12:00:00 PM

The FBI appears to have adopted an invasive Internet surveillance technique that collects far more data on innocent Americans than previously has been disclosed.
Instead of recording only what a particular suspect is doing, agents conducting investigations appear to be assembling the activities of thousands of Internet users at a time into massive databases, according to current and former officials. That database can subsequently be queried for names, e-mail addresses or keywords.

Such a technique is broader and potentially more intrusive than the FBI's Carnivore surveillance system, later renamed DCS1000. It raises concerns similar to those stirred by widespread Internet monitoring that the National Security Agency is said to have done, according to documents that have surfaced in one federal lawsuit, and may stretch the bounds of what's legally permissible.

read the full article here: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6154457.html?tag=nl.e550

This is some scary shit people. These bastards are looking waaaay too far up our collective asses.

[Toots]

1. Who Cares...Go shopping...

Democrats have no desire to right any of the wrongs, Accountability is "Off the Table" so I am sure we will see much much more of this type of thing. "Get Over It" Everything is Rosy... Go Shopping

[EnviroBat]

2. Right, go INTERNETshopping so the FBI will maintain a list of my

purchases for me... The Dems will continue to just sit back and allow this to happen.
I want my country back.

[endarkenment]

3. They build a connection network database.

Locating people in time and space with their communications with other people to understand who associates with who. Basically they know who you are and who all of your associates are.

[Cassandra]

5. Quick, everybody contact Jonah Goldberg and Bill...

Kristol, just to chat about their favorite terrorists. ;-)

[blogslut]

4. Am I reading this right?

The Justice Department considers all Internet communication to be foreign because it's digital?

From the article:

But a nearby sentence adds: "In the event the intercepted communication is in a code or foreign language, and an expert in that foreign language or code is not reasonably available during the interception period, minimization may be accomplished as soon as practicable after such interception."

Downing, the assistant deputy chief at the Justice Department's computer crime section, pointed to that language on Friday. Because digital communications amount to a foreign language or code, he said, federal agents are legally permitted to record everything and sort through it later. (Downing stressed that he was not speaking on behalf of the Justice Department.)

[EnviroBat]

6. Yeah, ain't that some shit?

[blogslut]

9. I'll say

Talk about a messed up legal definition. Wow. Just wow.

[EnviroBat]

17. What the hell is happening here.

And now with this Homegrown Violent Radicalization bullshit. Are we living in the fucking Twilight Zone?

[tom_paine]

30. Yes, we are living in the Twilight Zone. To a Free Person like Rod Serling

or anyone ese who lived through WWII and our assissting in defeating the German Bushies and our own Bushies, we do indeed live in a nightmarish nation gone upside-down and insane.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

And the really BAD shit hasn't even started yet. This is all just putting the BushPutinist pieces in place, awaiting the Trigger Event, which the Bushies will MIHOP if they have to.

It makes me laugh to hear all this talk of "stretchingthe bounds of legality" in a Totalitarian Endemic Surveillance State like Imperial Amerika.

Haven't you got the memo yet, people? THERE IS NO LAW.

[ThomWV]

7. I have said this before - this will creep down to local police departments

And then we will see what real facism is all about.

[endarkenment]

11. They will be able to access the database.

So if your local police force decides they want to round up you and all of your friends it will be a simple query to the FBI database which will pop out a list and also tell you where all those people are right now.

This is going to be much easier for our gestapo than for the classic totalitarians.

[rodeodance]

18. I think the Fire fighters have already been that authority- Chertoff said to train them for counter

terrorism.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. And the most depressing part of this is that...

if they catch anyone at all, it will be the stupid ones with little ability to organize or do much damage.

For years, the FBI bugged Mafia phones and clubs, amybe even homes, but it took the mobsters maybe 5 minutes to figure out you didn't talk "business" anywhere near a bug.

Anything different about this? (except that it's costing a hell of a lot more)

[endarkenment]

13. the FBI bugged Mafia phones: with a warrant.

There is no warrant here.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. That's not entirely my point, although...

it's a good one.

Point is that the wiretaps and bugs were largely useless-- "business" was done where it couldn't be overheard. If we're worried about "terrorists," I don't see where they will send each other E-mail telling where and when they'll leave a bomb. The best these spy systems can come up with are traffic patterns that let the spooks guess who might be a bad guy.

Other than that, it lets government voyeurs peek in all our windows.

[endarkenment]

22. wiretaps and bugs aren't largely useless - although your point is

mostly valid. For example, the entire boston north end mob was rounded up and tossed in jail from a bug in a club they used.

The terrorists don't email the location of the bomb. The point of network databases like this is not to locate the bomb, it is to locate the entire network of associates - who is connected to who, not where is the bomb. But they aren't interested in rolling up terrorist networks - they are interested in building a database of citizens and who they associate with.

[EnviroBat]

14. I think what really bothers me the most about this, well let me state this

in hypotheticals...

Have you ever stumbled upon what some might consider a "questionable" web-site. Maybe you were curious about something and visited How-Stuff Works.com Mebbe your curiosity was centered around explosives, or S&M Porn, or the number of Iraqi's killed since our occupation. Could be a myriad of things, and for all of the "holier than thous" out there, you're just a guilty as any of us. So later on you go to apply for a job somewhere that utilizes the old FBI background check. All of the sudden the people you interview with aren't returning your calls, and you resume suddenly stops generating any interest. Ultimately, this is where they are attempting to take this. The want to use this information against us until they've "blacklisted" everyone who thinks for themselves.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. You accidentally come across a...

kiddie porn site and some spyware finds it in your browser history.

Your life has just changed much for the worse.

[EnviroBat]

24. Exactly... n/t

[LynnTheDem]

10. But if you're not doing anything wrong...

and if no one else on the internets is doing anything wrong and doesn't click on any internets urls you click on, and as long as you know everything that is considered "wrong" such as which websites (Amnesty International, GreenPeace, BBC & CBC News, NY Times etc) are secretly considered by the bush Cabal to be evil, and if the agents spying on you never happen to make a mistake, then you have nothing to fear!

Rightwingnuts; stupidest fascists on the planet.

[mogster]

12. It will be a grave error for Dem politicians if they don't do something about this

Once they're in position. I'm a fairly moderate man, but if the tendency to eradicate all personal privacy on a global scale does not stop, I'll settle for a revolution. The surveillance is the main factor in the people's distrust in politicians, IMHO. It goes across the political spectrum. It is not in accordance with democracy, it is anti-democratic.

[EnviroBat]

15. I'm right there will ya mog...

[TreasonousBastard]

23. Why just Democrats? This is an issue we should ally with...

Libertarians and Conservatives on.

They claim they hate this shit, too. Let 'em prove it.

[mogster]

25. You are right

This should be an issue right across the spectrum, and the scenario should apply not only for governments, but for corporations as well. There are so much data collection being done today that we don't know about, both commerically and for government purposes--especially online--that you can never feel private. Behaviour studies, profiling, network detection - this is fast becoming a real issue if we at all care for personal privacy. Data about you is being shared between different actors in this game, sometimes for security reasons, sometimes for commerical purposes. We should have a say in the development in this area, and ensure that intrusion upon personal privacy for security reasons are adequately funded in a concrete suspicion of wrongdoing, not as a part of a mass surveillance program. Similar, the corporate collection of data and behaviour studies should be investigated and a set of rules developed for how close tp your person such data may come. I'm thinking especially of Facebook and comparable networks, where people are more or less public and participates under their own name.

This isn't an unreasonable request, it's the base of how we used to think as democratic minded persons. If the majority are treated as guilty until proved innocent, it has serious implications for how people will look at being governed. It is a big difference between an open society where you support being governed and a scary, orwellian society where you respect the police and authorities only because they scare the shit out of you.

In an open society they are a part of you, you can control them. An old proverb says 'The people get the politicians they deserve'. That's true in a democracy, but it also goes the other way. Seven years with the Bush administration has made it's mark on the trust in goverment, and politicians should take this seriously and work to reinstate the trust needed to govern democratically.

[tom_paine]

31. "claim" being the operative word here. They "claim" a lot of shit that

they don't really believe in, like the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[rodeodance]

16. Serious Question-Do the Dems try to stop this? Have they?

[EnviroBat]

19. Doesn't appear so.

I'm starting to believe that whatever party is in power, they get off on this kind of shit. It exerts contol over the populace regardless of what letter proceeds the name.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

26. K&R n/t

[pleah]

27. k&r

[lovuian]

28. their data mining and trying to get a hold of the internet

but the internet is Global and trying to get a hold of China Internet or India Internet is going to take some doing

and Russia Internet is really crazy

[pleah]

29. zup yug bup tyzzy rogrs! That's code for

YOU GOD D**N M**TH** F**KER*! I hope they got that.