Is separation of church and state a myth in America?

[marmar]

from Truthdig, via AlterNet:



The Stillborn God

By Zachary Karabell, Truthdig. Posted December 29, 2007.

Is separation of church and state a myth in America?




One of the bedrock assumptions of our society is that we have, after centuries of struggle, finally achieved an enviable balance that allows individuals to have their own religious beliefs but does not permit religion to dictate public life and thereby enflame passions and generate deadly conflict. That balance was hardly easy to create, and only after many years of two steps forward and one step back did we in the West finally -- supposedly -- arrive at the right formula. But arrive we did, says Mark Lilla in "The Stillborn God: Religion, Politics and the Modern West," his provocative, passionate essay on what he calls "the Great Separation."

With the rise of a virulent strain of radical fundamentalism in the Muslim world, that separation is being assailed, and we seem bewildered that anyone could argue against it. Lilla, however, contends that it is not the fundamentalists -- Muslim, Christian and Jewish -- who are seeing the world askew; it is Western culture and its defenders. "We must remind ourselves," he writes, "that we are living in an experiment, that we are the exceptions. We have little reason to expect other civilizations to follow our unusual path, which was opened up by a unique theological-political crisis within Christendom." In short, Lilla believes that we> have gotten one thing utterly wrong: We are not us. We are them. We are not the rule; we are the exception.

The rule for Lilla is a blurring of the political and theological that has defined most societies from time immemorial and Western society for most of recorded history until only recently. Since the dawn of Christianity, there has been a deep confusion in Western society about what constitutes a good society, and Lilla astutely highlights what he sees as the limitations of the New Testament in not "articulating a clear, coherent picture of the good Christian political order." Although full of moral guidance, the New Testament is indeed vague about how society should be structured, perhaps because most of those who penned its text believed that the end of days was near and hence that it would be a waste of time thinking too much about how to construct an ideal political society in this world. The result, however, was endless war and tension between different groups in what became Europe.

Lilla is a historian of ideas, and his book is primarily an intellectual history of the thinkers who confronted the problem of never-ending wars of theology and who sought a solution and an escape. Lilla's hero in this endeavor is Thomas Hobbes, the 17th-century English philosopher who looked at the wreckage caused by theological conflict and offered a radical solution: structure society around man's nature, not on God's. And that nature isn't pretty. For Hobbes, "the reason human beings in war commit acts no animal would commit is, paradoxically, because they believe in God. Animals fight only to eat or reproduce; men fight to get into heaven." Because humans need someone to follow absolutely, Hobbes suggested that they follow not God, whose will is mysterious when applied to politics, but rather an absolute ruler, "an earthly God." ......(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/story/71878/

[Rydz777]

1. Thought provoking article. Thanks for posting. One point I did

not follow was the statement that the billion Moslems follow separation more than we in the west understand. I lived in Turkey for a year - always cited as the most secular Moslem state. I found "separation" to be a veneer, essentially imposed by the Army and less and less visible as you travel into the countryside or to the east of the country.

The model of the Caliphate still hangs over Islam.

[shadowknows69]

2. Do we still have a national holiday with a deities name in it?

The prosecution rests.

[stillcool]

3. It depends on which church...

and which state. I think national or collective identities...based on religion, race, and gender.. are used to divide or unite, against or for a particular cause. I wonder if the whole 'torture' business is not to get information...but to plant information...very much like religion.

[The2ndWheel]

4. They can't co-exist

If they do, the state and the church will always be in conflict. They are both forms of centralized organization. Organization does not like diversity. Organization requires energy to grow. The state needs money to grow. The church needs money to grow. How do they get the money needed? Attempt to acquire more people, however they have to.

[Toots]

5. While Secular government may be an experiment it has shown great results

Sort of like when they experimented with electricity. I think more people are moving toward Secular government than we realize..