OFFICIAL FISA BILL DISCUSSION THREAD #1

[Le Taz Hot]

C-SPAN 2

Link: http://www.cspan.org/

[bdamomma]

1. thanks for this reminder.

will be listening.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Pledge of Alegience.

Rhode Island Senator in charge today.

[midnight]

14. I don't mean to sound cranky, but what exactly are they

pledging allegiance for or to?

[Le Taz Hot]

19. Of the corporation, By the Corporation

and For the Corporation.

[rocktivity]

3. Add "Official" to your thread title

And everybody recommend this thread!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Le Taz Hot]

5. Just did.

Thanks. ;-)

[zabet]

4. Listening in...

The Pledge of Allegiance..
Clerk reading to the Senate..
appointing chair. Clerk calling
the roll.....

[ThomWV]

6. Harry comes to the floor - vote expected at noon

[Le Taz Hot]

7. Reid up.

Senate will vote at Noon for cloture.

[zabet]

8. Harry Reid up

[ThomWV]

9. Time divied up, Leadership time withheld

[ThomWV]

11. McConnell bellows his bullshit (R. Leadership time)

Talking about everythning but FISA.

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Reid just said Dodd was to speak. Does anyone know what time he's planning to take the floor?

Go, Chris!

[PDittie]

He's at the mic.

[bdamomma]

12. oh, crap I hate McConnell

another corrupt POS. oh, by the way the boy/king is talking this morning on the glorious robust economy.

[zabet]

13. Mitch McConnell ...

'without any political games'
this bill needs to be passed.
:puke:

[bdamomma]

17. and to do the peoples' business??

first business would be to hold these thugs accountable.

[zabet]

20. Yes it would!

He babbled about any
and everything
BUT the FISA bill.

[ThomWV]

15. Rockefeller is up, controls 20 minutes

[bdamomma]

16. Rockefeller is up.

[Le Taz Hot]

18. Rockefeller

justifying taking this out of committee -- matter of National Security, blah blah blah (sounding a whole lot like a Republican).

[zabet]

22. Too much like

a Repuke.
National Security my ass!
It is about covering ass!!!!

[seafan]

21. Jello Jay is bragging about his Intelligence bill right now.

With a hat tip to someone over at emptywheel for the perfect name.

I have knots in my stomach.

[zabet]

23. I fear that many do not

realize just how critical
this is. NO IMMUNITY for the
telecommunications companies
that helped with the illegal
wire-tapping!!!!

[seafan]

39. That's my fear as well, citizen_jane. The media failed to inform. Catastrophic failure.

Also, the list of those to be replaced on our side of the aisle is becoming clearer.

In a wrenching, horrible way, it will help us if we face it.

[zabet]

43. As I said in another thread...

We are living the
'American Apocolypse'.

[L. Coyote]

44. It is "illegal surveillance" because they captured ALL fiber optic traffic. Wire tapping

is listening to one phone!! This was MILLIONS AND MILLIONS!!!

[zabet]

54. You and I and

the members of this community
know this. I fear the average
American citizen is totally clueless
on this issue.

[babylonsister]

24. Thanks! nt

[ThomWV]

25. Rockefeller is running throught the bill's history now

[ThomWV]

26. Not a word yet about immunity (10:21 am)

[Le Taz Hot]

27. As another DUer suggested.

Just read this over and over and over again.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[bdamomma]

48. they are trampling all over our rights.

security over liberties, what a sorry state we live in. Home of the Brave huh??

[ThomWV]

28. Exclusivity question discussed now

[Le Taz Hot]

29. We're being assured that there will

be a "sunset" clause. Oh, gee, I'm comforted. NOT!

[madokie]

30. impeach the sob and get it over with

something tells me today will not be a good day for us

[bdamomma]

50. will this be our Christmas present a Big FU to the American people.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. Supposedly a "limited"

retroactive clause. Applies to only those corporations between 9/11 and the time the FISA bill was introduced. WTF???? Is anyone else listening to this?

[L. Coyote]

32. Sen. Jay Rockefeller and the "the $66,600 bargain!" Is it a quid pro quo with the telecoms?

Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D - WV) Next election: 2008
http://opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.asp?CID=N00001685&cycle=2008

2003-2008 Fundraising: $5,947,331
Cash on Hand: $3,183,266

2008 Top Contributors

K&L Gates  - $34,100
AT&T Inc   - $32,500
Verizon    - $30,500

These telecoms are sure trying to quid pro quo Rockefeller.
We will see today if he completes his half of "the $66,600 bargain!"

[ThomWV]

33. Here it is ... Immunity

Rockefeller supports immunity as 'narrowly defined' in the intelligence version.

[zabet]

34. Retroactive Immunity...

:grr:
This is all about
covering the WAR
CRIMINALS' ASSES!!!!!

[babylonsister]

35. Damn Rockfeller; he's an apologist for the telecom companies. His

tune hasn't changed despite all his 'pretty' words. He's bought.

[zabet]

37. Yep..

and I bet he
was cheap too.

[cascadiance]

46. His testimony is maddening.,.

He tries to say that the Telecomm companies don't deserve to be penalized because our government was telling them "it was legal" and that they have no responsibility for doing illegal things because they were told "it was ok"! And it is the corporate sector of this country that runs our government by proxy and therefore this is a perfect way for them to operate lawlessly. Get the government to do their dirty work for them, and their proxies in government won't do anything to take away from their power, saying they aren't responsible for our laws, when in fact through proxy, THEY ARE! This f'in' SUCKS!

[babylonsister]

51. I know, and agree it's maddening. We cannot be privy to anything

is what we're being told. Can't compromise national security. So they get away with whatever the hell they want, without letting the truth see the light of day. It sucks indeed.

[jtrockville]

36. Does "the specified timeframe" exclude pre-911 domestic spying?

[librechik]

38. shameful, cowardly obfuscation. Patriotosm is the last refuge--and why didn't QWEST obey the order?

Their lawyers knew their was a crime involved. Why didn't AT&T's lawyers?

[L. Coyote]

47. Nacchio and Qwest: Another Political Prosecution?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2051298

[zabet]

40. I cannot wait to hear Dodd. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

41. Oh, goody, Kit Bond now up.

Fuck! The first three speakers up are all cheerleading for the piece of shit!

[cascadiance]

53. Kit Bond: Our "outmoded" FISA bill!

F you Kit! How is oversight by the legislative branch "outmoded"? I DON'T see it! I just see you wanting to hand the executive a blank check!

How much more time before you say that the constitution is "outmoded"? F'in FASCIST!

[bdamomma]

42. oh if it isn't the jerk who thinks waterboarding is like swimming.

this guy is not well. I have him on mute.

[marmar]

45. What telecom company has their meathooks in Rockefeller? .....

.... and WTF is Kit Bond talking about?

[L. Coyote]

52. AT&T $32,500 = Verizon $30,500. What a bargain!!

http://opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00001685&cycle=2008

[zabet]

57. Bwahahaha!!!

I was right!
He was cheap!!!!
(post #37)

[Le Taz Hot]

49. "Our men and women fighting overseas

did not have the information they needed to help save lives." Waving the flag. :puke:

[bdamomma]

56. what the hell is that suppose to mean.

these guys (repigs) are suffering from a mental disorder.

[Le Taz Hot]

Basically he's trying to claim that

the original FISA Bill in 1978 hindered intelligence-gathering. The 1978 Bill was in response to Nixon's illegal wiretapping and the massive abuse of power used by that Administration and the F.B.I. It's all utter bullshit, of course, but it's a right wing talking point.

[Justpat]

So taking away our rights here

helps them fight them over there?

Is that basically it in a nutshell?

We are so fucked.

[ThomWV]

55. Wait a a minute here - did you hear all of what Rockefeller really said?

Forget what he said during his recitation of the bill's history and points. Go back to his opening statement.

He said that there were two versions of the bill, his (Intel) and the Judiciary version. He said that was proper and that the J-bill had followed his in sequence and would be considered as the first amendment to the Intel-bill. He recommended its approval.

So what's that mean?

It means that even though he defended immunity he also suggested that the version of the bill that didn't include it be passed over his version. In effect he said no immunity.

Did I hear him wrong?

[cascadiance]

58. I think the whole point is to keep us confused, so we don't know what they are really doing!

If we are confused, imagine the average American that only watches Faux News or CNN?

[bdamomma]

59. those who watch those stations are definitely walking around in a fog.

get the hook for kit bond please.

[KoKo]

82. You got it....They excell at Double Talk....so you don't find out what's in a bill for months!

[babylonsister]

69. I only heard part of what he said but got the distinct impression

he wants the telecoms to have immunity, thus my knee-jerk reaction upthread. I could be wrong.

[Solly Mack]

60. hiding crimes behind language

Just checking in but that's all I've heard so far

[bdamomma]

64. get the hook please.

[Solly Mack]

72. lol..no kidding

[marmar]

61. Oh sit down and shut up ....

.... This Bond character is working my nerves.

[babylonsister]

62. Is he filibustering? Oye! nt

[MiniMe]

63. Hi guys, I'm here too

Office just moved, I'll be unpacking today.

[in_cog_ni_to]

65. Here's Dodd!

[Le Taz Hot]

66. Dodd's up!

n/t

[hootinholler]

67. w00t! Dodd up! n/t

[Solly Mack]

68. NO, fucklehead. You need a bill that protects and defends the Constitution

[bdamomma]

70. Dodd is up!!!!!

give it to them!!!!

[Beelzebud]

71. The Democratic party is broken. They've made themselves irrelevant.

Just give Bush everything he wants, Mr. Reid. Thats all you're good for...

[zabet]

73. Sanity comes to the Senate!!!!!

Dodd is up!!!!

[babylonsister]

74. He needs to slow-w-w down-n-n-n. nt

[zabet]

77. You can tell this issue

is very important to Dodd.
He is trying to cram
as much talk as he can
into his allotted time.

[tridim]

92. Yep, but not quite yet.

I don't think I've ever heard Dodd speak slowly, this will be interesting.

[Le Taz Hot]

75. . . . Those who voted for the IWR

did not mean to give the president unlimited warrantless access to private citizens . . .

[marmar]

76. We need a "Protect America from the President" Act.....

:think:

[babylonsister]

79. I fear, before this is over, it won't be just * we need protection from. nt

[marmar]

80. Very true.....

:scared:

[zabet]

81. I fear you are probably correct. nt

[bdamomma]

84. Protect the World and the Environment Act from this nutcase.

[Solly Mack]

78. The senate is 'debating' the actions of a criminal administration

Whenever Congress - or any body of Congress - gets together to "debate" the ah...merits/sides(coughchokespew) .... of the crimes of a criminal executive, I'm always struck by the futility of it all.

Just debating seems to give legitimacy to the Bush administrations criminals actions. Like his crimes have two sides to them...as if those crimes have justification.

Yeah, yeah...I know. This is how government works. LMAO

It's the hallmark of a civilized society that its government ever so politely "debates" the merits of such criminl actions as violations of its own Constitution and say, torture.

LMAO

I am undone.

[marmar]

87. So true....It's an indicator of how far this country has fallen......

.... that these issues are even the subject of a legitimate debate.

Roma esta en fuego!

[Solly Mack]

97. I think so too. (an indicator)

[babylonsister]

89. Great points, Solly. This whole theatre is lending legitimacy

to an issue that shouldn't even be one. Kind of like torture.

[Solly Mack]

100. "...to an issue that shouldn't even be one.Kind of like torture. "

Exactly :(

[marmar]

83. Alright Chris Dodd!

We're disgusted right witcha! :yourock:

[bdamomma]

90. short memories is right!!

[Dhalgren]

85. Dodd fucking ROCKS!

He is dead on across the board! He is pissed and he can't hide it! GO DODD!

[Le Taz Hot]

86. Just called Senator Boxer's office

Her staffer said she is not allowed to give out any information about her vote -- either for cloture or for the FISA vote itself.

Come on, Californians! Call her office! [phone].

[babylonsister]

94. Not allowed? That's odd, isn't it?

Forget my senators, KBH and Cornyn. They'd tell me to pack sand.

[Le Taz Hot]

99. VERY disturbing, isn't it?

I didn't bother to call Feinstein's office for obvious reasons.

[debbierlus]

107. Many Americans don't care, they really don't

They can't wrap their minds around the implications of waterboarding or spying. They don't even value their freedoms.

Ignorance & fear.

About 1/2 the population doesn't know & doesn't care to know...

[watrwefitinfor]

88. Dodd is making one of the most important speeches of our lifetimes on the Senate floor today.

The networks won't carry a word of it to the masses of people, except maybe to paraphrase and malign him.

Wat.

[bdamomma]

93. the media wants to keep the american people as usual dumbed down.

[zabet]

91. Dodd ....

pissed and totally
correct on all points!
:applause:

[bdamomma]

98. oof I have to excuse myself,

will be right back.

[zabet]

103. S'okay...

I have the volume up
listening while doing
some housework. Stopping
to post and/or check the
thread.
:hi:

[marmar]

95. Preach on, brother Chris!

:applause: {Screams from the "Amen" corner)

[shadowknows69]

96. I'm here

Dodd is kicking ass.

[bdamomma]

102. more of them have to kick ass.

or maybe we should kick their a$$es.

[shadowknows69]

112. Amen to that

[Junkdrawer]

101. CSpan 2 is down in the Pittsburgh Area (Comcast)...

:tinfoilhat:

[marmar]

104. Comcast sucks.....

.... CSPAN 2 is working fine here in the Detroit area on Comcast, but it doesn't change the fact that Comcast sucks.

[seafan]

118. Try this link and choose your player to listen online to CSpan2, Senate session:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[bdamomma]

106. do you have computer to listen or watch?

we will keep you updated.

[Junkdrawer]

108. I'm watching online now...

It would have been clearer on cable....

[Nictuku]

110. You can stream it

www.c-span.org

[liberalla]

105. For this executive branch, Secrecy is Power

"For this executive branch, Secrecy is Power"

And these a@@holes don't need any more power...

Go Chris Dodd! I'm so impressed right now!

[zabet]

109. Me too!!!!

I have not been
a Dodd supporter
in the campaign but,
I must say, WOW!!!!

[marmar]

111. "If the case would go to trial, the corporations would lose."

Uh-huh.....

Protect the corporations at all costs. F**k Americans.

[bdamomma]

113. Dodd is doing good.

yea, bring up how much these sleazy companies are making a mint. Damn these corporations.

[Le Taz Hot]

114. Saying that A.T.&T.

had over $3 billion in profits for ONE QUARTER -- so the claim that if A.T. & T. had to defend themselves in court, it would bankrupt them, is ridiculous.

[zabet]

115. Is it time

for a new thread?
:shrug:

edit sp

[G_Leo_Criley]

116. "bring checks and balances...

back to domestic spying"

Go Chris Dodd!

[Le Taz Hot]

117. Moving this Tread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2483162

Mods: Could you lock this one? Thanks.

[bdamomma]

119. ......

woot!!:applause: Dodd, I am on mute turncoat Specter.